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(Bored Panda)   Here is a 10 pg list of things you must be able to do for this job...how much does it pay? Don't Worry About It   (boredpanda.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Employment, writer Matt Wallace, Knowledge of pay, Image credits, Labour economics, job ad, labor markets, Recruitment  
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1173 clicks; posted to Business » on 03 Feb 2021 at 4:54 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



19 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-02-03 4:30:14 PM  
It's never bothered me, but I've also dealt with negotiations with all sorts of entities as part of all the jobs I've had... so negotiation doesn't really put me off.  I guess some people just aren't comfortable with that sort of thing in life.
 
2021-02-03 4:43:12 PM  
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That is annoying for sure but this one gets me more:

Ad: "Expert Skills Req. - C#, C++, Java, JS, CSS, .NET Framework, VB, Oracle forms, SSMS, SSRS, Python, pl/sql, TSQL, MySql, R, Go, Rust, Ruby, Powershell, ADA, Pascal, Fortran, Punch cards, Scratch, Makecode, BASIC, MFC, ASP, MVVM, MVC, CTE, REST, WPF, WCF, WTF, .NET Framework again, DevExpress, Telerik, Unity Engine, VT100"

I/R: "We like your resume...Could you go to the whiteboard and write a algorithm that describes all timelines in the move 'Primer' and output the results in unicode."
Me: (fumbles thorough it)
I/R: "Thank you.  Any questions?"
Me: "Yeah, what does this job entail?"
I/R: "You would be maintaining a system that heaves a shiatload of data from an Oracle database to a SQL Server database using a combination of stored procedures and C# console apps."
Me: "Are you going to ask me if I know how to do that?"
I/R: "No.  We just use what you wrote on the white board to determine if you know it."
 
2021-02-03 5:00:57 PM  
It doesn't bother me when the salary is not listed in the job ad. But you better tell me an estimate in the initial introduction call.
 
2021-02-03 5:06:51 PM  
"It's, uh, 'competitive'..."
 
2021-02-03 5:10:54 PM  
If they don't list the salary, it's obviously not a selling point. I'm at the point that the first thing I want to know during an interview is pay and hours. If they aren't what I'm looking for there is no amount of convincing me that your company is worth my time, no matter how awesome you think 'bacon Fridays' are.
 
2021-02-03 5:18:11 PM  
One time, I got convinced to fly to another town to interview with an implementation team. Three and half hours, they fed me lunch, everything was going great...until they asked what my salary expectation was.

Oh, well. It was their money.
 
2021-02-03 5:38:13 PM  
i think not mentioning the salary is part of self selection for people who don't actively bargain for high salaries / raises.
 
2021-02-03 5:47:36 PM  
Okay guys, look:

https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics compiles this data for several hundred occupations in several hundred metro areas and states. Average wages and medians. They update the numbers every two years. This isn't the end-all-be-all to shut down every negotiation, but it's a good starting point. Adjust the numbers as necessary to cover your experience and how well the company's been doing.

If you want any sort of job above fry cook, you're going to have to do some research on the employer, the industry, and the area. Otherwise you're just going to look like some dilettante. The employer didn't decide to hire someone on a whim; so don't apply on a whim.
 
2021-02-03 5:52:04 PM  

GodComplex: If they don't list the salary, it's obviously not a selling point. I'm at the point that the first thing I want to know during an interview is pay and hours. If they aren't what I'm looking for there is no amount of convincing me that your company is worth my time, no matter how awesome you think 'bacon Fridays' are.


+1 to this. On ex co-worker once told me whenever he gets a LinkedIn cold message from a recruiter without a salary information, he replies that they're wasting both their time by doing so. So now I do that, too.
 
2021-02-03 6:02:24 PM  

downstairs: It's never bothered me, but I've also dealt with negotiations with all sorts of entities as part of all the jobs I've had... so negotiation doesn't really put me off.  I guess some people just aren't comfortable with that sort of thing in life.


I need to know if it's worth my time even applying. I've been offered $4/hour for a freelance teaching job. Posting a range tells me how much they value the person doing the job.

Billy Liar: "It's, uh, 'competitive'..."


So much THIS
"Competitive" isn't a good thing. It means the same as what everyone else is paying.

Fabric_Man:
If you want any sort of job above fry cook, you're going to have to do some research on the employer, the industry, and the area. Otherwise you're just going to look like some dilettante. The employer didn't decide to hire someone on a whim; so don't apply on a whim.

How can I know if it's worth my time to research the job or apply if I have no idea what the pay is? That there's some statistics on the position doesn't tell me squat on what that particular employer is willing to pay for that position. If they aren't hiring on a whim, then they know how much they are willing to pay. Them posting that number or range is not too much to ask.
 
2021-02-03 6:05:56 PM  
Recruiter on LinkedIn: I love your profile and think you are a great fit for an opening at a great company! Do you have time to chat?

Me: You didn't tell me what the company does or what skills they're looking for, so can you send me a job description?

R: Sure! I can tell you all about the position! Do you have time to chat?

Me: Well, I don't see the point of us chatting until I see a job description. Do you have a job description you can send?

R: Sure! I can tell you all about the company and send you a job description when we chat! Do you have time for a quick call so we can chat?

Me: Can you at least tell me the top skills they're looking for before we bother with a phone call? It might save us both some time.

R: Sure, I can tell you what skills they're looking for! Let me know a good time for us to chat!

Every. Damn. Time.
 
2021-02-03 6:11:57 PM  

Unscratchable_Itch: Recruiter on LinkedIn: I love your profile and think you are a great fit for an opening at a great company! Do you have time to chat?

Me: You didn't tell me what the company does or what skills they're looking for, so can you send me a job description?

R: Sure! I can tell you all about the position! Do you have time to chat?

Me: Well, I don't see the point of us chatting until I see a job description. Do you have a job description you can send?

R: Sure! I can tell you all about the company and send you a job description when we chat! Do you have time for a quick call so we can chat?

Me: Can you at least tell me the top skills they're looking for before we bother with a phone call? It might save us both some time.

R: Sure, I can tell you what skills they're looking for! Let me know a good time for us to chat!

Every. Damn. Time.


I had a recruiter who wanted to interview me in case there was a job opening he could use me for. As I'm currently employed, I don't want people wasting my time on possibilities. I don't take time off for 'maybes.'

I'm also beginning to think LinkedIn isn't worth it because I'm bombarded by folk who want to hire me for 3 month contracts, despite me being employed full time.
 
2021-02-03 6:14:20 PM  

NotARocketScientist: How can I know if it's worth my time to research the job or apply if I have no idea what the pay is? That there's some statistics on the position doesn't tell me squat on what that particular employer is willing to pay for that position. If they aren't hiring on a whim, then they know how much they are willing to pay. Them posting that number or range is not too much to ask.


This. The last job I applied for in Chicago - which required a Masters and a decade of experience. I went on BLS, found the median wage, adjusted for having over 15 years of experience and several certifications. I came up with a number I felt was reasonable in the 70th percentile of wage earners in that profession. When I interviewed, I found out the position paid what was essentially a 10th percentile wage (and in real terms - about $60k less than what I was looking for) in Chicago. 

I wasted several hours of my time for what ended up being a complete non-starter.

Companies that don't post a salary range for positions that require education, experience, and/or certifications are 100% relying on the desperation of people applying to drive down the market rate for that position.
 
2021-02-03 7:09:21 PM  

Another Government Employee: One time, I got convinced to fly to another town to interview with an implementation team. Three and half hours, they fed me lunch, everything was going great...until they asked what my salary expectation was.

Oh, well. It was their money.


well did he cum or what
Youtube YI8a7cI-NHg
 
2021-02-04 7:51:11 AM  
Tell them your expectation upfront before the interview.  If they still want to talk then talk.
 
2021-02-04 8:16:15 AM  
We have snacks in the break room!

GFY
 
2021-02-04 9:25:31 AM  

phenn: We have snacks in the break room!

GFY


I had a professional office job i hated. The breaking point for me, the honest to goodness "I went home and talked w my wife about me finding a new job" moment was when one of the bigwigs told us they were looking at eliminating the coffee the company provided because of the cost.
I laughed out loud at him that meeting and got a lot of dirty stares from a lot of over paid people.
/My co workers immediately began organizing a collection plate to buy community coffee.
//I refreshed my resume.
///6 years later and I'm happy as a pig in shiat working in the trades, making more too
 
2021-02-04 10:13:43 AM  

SharkaPult: phenn: We have snacks in the break room!

GFY

I had a professional office job i hated. The breaking point for me, the honest to goodness "I went home and talked w my wife about me finding a new job" moment was when one of the bigwigs told us they were looking at eliminating the coffee the company provided because of the cost.
I laughed out loud at him that meeting and got a lot of dirty stares from a lot of over paid people.
/My co workers immediately began organizing a collection plate to buy community coffee.
//I refreshed my resume.
///6 years later and I'm happy as a pig in shiat working in the trades, making more too


Outstanding!

Yeah, the general nastiness most workers have to put up with is just shameful. Coffee. Big ol' bank breaker that is.

Back on interviews - and I've been taking in quite a few - if your hiring manager will only accept my resume after I record a 3-minute video, explaining why I want to work for you (like, I don't even know you yet), I just keep on scrolling. The absolute horseshiat people think is appropriate astonishes me. Don't treat me like it's my honor to have you consider me. Treat EVERYONE who comes your way like the honor is yours and you may actually acquire a solid hire.

For more unemployment tips, follow my blog.
 
2021-02-04 10:15:18 AM  
I used to do contract work and pay was the first thing discussed with actual numbers and shiat. And none of the "where do you see yourself in 5 years?" BS. I always hated those bs interview questions.
 
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