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(WPRI Rhode Island)   To reduce their carbon footprint, brewery collects CO2 during fermentation, then converts it into liquid carbon dioxide, which is then used to carbonate the beer. It does get released out of the end user. Or user's ends, however   (wpri.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Carbon dioxide, carbon dioxide, Brewing, Alan Brinton of Grey Sail Brewing, small company, Beer, Grey Sail Brewing, Rhode Island brewery  
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266 clicks; posted to Food » and Business » on 27 Jan 2021 at 3:20 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-27 2:36:54 PM  
A local brewery near me does that as well, but not to add any carbonation to their brews.  They installed their recovery system close to 6 years ago, too.

They use the CO2 to pressurize lines to move beer from one tank to another, and during bottling, they purge any air from bottles before filling them.
 
2021-01-27 3:15:17 PM  
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2021-01-27 3:26:17 PM  

markie_farkie: A local brewery near me does that as well, but not to add any carbonation to their brews.  They installed their recovery system close to 6 years ago, too.

They use the CO2 to pressurize lines to move beer from one tank to another, and during bottling, they purge any air from bottles before filling them.


drink too much beer and you will purge too.
 
2021-01-27 3:28:08 PM  
I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.
 
2021-01-27 3:28:53 PM  

freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.


Is tiny* dammit.

Too dumb to proof read, too.
 
2021-01-27 3:31:15 PM  
It's the cycle of life.
 
2021-01-27 3:47:02 PM  
Great beer is carbonated naturally, not with it added mechanically!
 
2021-01-27 3:49:52 PM  

freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.


It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.
 
2021-01-27 3:50:17 PM  
Without knowing where they were sourcing the CO2 for carbonation from before this, it seems like they accomplished little to nothing.
 
2021-01-27 3:50:28 PM  

freakdiablo: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

Is tiny* dammit.

Too dumb to proof read, too.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-27 3:59:14 PM  

Delc: Without knowing where they were sourcing the CO2 for carbonation from before this, it seems like they accomplished little to nothing.


Commercial CO2 is a waste product of commercial ammonia production.

Commercial ammonia comes from burning natural gas.  The NG combustion separates carbon and hydrogen. Nitrogen is added, combining with the Hydrogen to make ammonia.   The free carbon binds with atmospheric oxygen to make CO2.

Previously the brewery would just vent CO2 from yeast fermentation into the atmosphere but by capturing it they now have a supply of commercial-grade CO2.  Now they buy less NG-produced CO2 and there's less demand to use the NG to make CO2 when ammonia sales are slumping (which they have been).
 
2021-01-27 4:08:47 PM  

freakdiablo: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

Is tiny* dammit.

Too dumb to proof read, too.


In regards to greenhouse gas, it's irrelevant. It's part of the carbon cycle, so it neither adds nor reduces the amount of carbon. The CO2 that has a relevant effect on greenhouse gas and climate change is formerly sequestered carbon: carbon that is buried underground as coal, oil, or natural gas that hasn't been part of the carbon cycle for millions of years and then extracted and burned to create new CO2 that hasn't been seen in millions of years.
 
2021-01-27 4:27:33 PM  

dericwater: freakdiablo: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

Is tiny* dammit.

Too dumb to proof read, too.

In regards to greenhouse gas, it's irrelevant. It's part of the carbon cycle, so it neither adds nor reduces the amount of carbon. The CO2 that has a relevant effect on greenhouse gas and climate change is formerly sequestered carbon: carbon that is buried underground as coal, oil, or natural gas that hasn't been part of the carbon cycle for millions of years and then extracted and burned to create new CO2 that hasn't been seen in millions of years.


Are you saying that though yeast that Belchs out CO2 gets it from somewhere else? I didn't think sucrose or glucose had CO2 in them?
 
2021-01-27 4:35:48 PM  

Fark that Pixel: dericwater: freakdiablo: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

Is tiny* dammit.

Too dumb to proof read, too.

In regards to greenhouse gas, it's irrelevant. It's part of the carbon cycle, so it neither adds nor reduces the amount of carbon. The CO2 that has a relevant effect on greenhouse gas and climate change is formerly sequestered carbon: carbon that is buried underground as coal, oil, or natural gas that hasn't been part of the carbon cycle for millions of years and then extracted and burned to create new CO2 that hasn't been seen in millions of years.

Are you saying that though yeast that Belchs out CO2 gets it from somewhere else? I didn't think sucrose or glucose had CO2 in them?


The sugars that the yeast eats come from plants, which create them from photosynthesis:
              CO2 + H2O + sunlight --> plant stuff.
 
2021-01-27 4:47:47 PM  

dericwater: Fark that Pixel: dericwater: freakdiablo: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

Is tiny* dammit.

Too dumb to proof read, too.

In regards to greenhouse gas, it's irrelevant. It's part of the carbon cycle, so it neither adds nor reduces the amount of carbon. The CO2 that has a relevant effect on greenhouse gas and climate change is formerly sequestered carbon: carbon that is buried underground as coal, oil, or natural gas that hasn't been part of the carbon cycle for millions of years and then extracted and burned to create new CO2 that hasn't been seen in millions of years.

Are you saying that though yeast that Belchs out CO2 gets it from somewhere else? I didn't think sucrose or glucose had CO2 in them?

The sugars that the yeast eats come from plants, which create them from photosynthesis:
        CO2 + H2O + sunlight --> plant stuff.


Thank you! :-)
 
2021-01-27 4:49:18 PM  

dericwater: The sugars that the yeast eats come from plants, which create them from photosynthesis:
        CO2 + H2O + sunlight --> plant stuff.


Why stop there?  The relevant plantstuff being C6H12O6(Glucose). 

Yeast then converts the C6H12O6 to  2 C2H6O  + 2 CO2 .

Or, rephrased, each molecule of simple sugar becomes two molecules of ethanol and carbon dioxide each.

So, yes, glucose and sucrose have CO2 in it.
 
2021-01-27 4:53:22 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: dericwater: The sugars that the yeast eats come from plants, which create them from photosynthesis:
  CO2 + H2O + sunlight --> plant stuff.

Why stop there?  The relevant plantstuff being C6H12O6(Glucose). 

Yeast then converts the C6H12O6 to  2 C2H6O  + 2 CO2 .

Or, rephrased, each molecule of simple sugar becomes two molecules of ethanol and carbon dioxide each.

So, yes, glucose and sucrose have CO2 in it.


hey, I said I make great beer. Not that I was a chemist :-) thank you!
 
2021-01-27 4:59:24 PM  
Yeah, not sure why this is newsworthy; quite a few small breweries have been doing this for years. Maybe the newsworthy bit is that this brewery can actually afford the upgrade after a year of quarantine.

As MusicMakeMyHeadPound said, CO_2 production during fermentation is surprisingly large--to the point that in a commercial setting, you have to be careful around fermenters, because a missed leak will push out the oxygen in the room over the course of a few hours. It's actually killed a few brewery workers over recent years.

Finally, the whole point of such a setup is that you're staying entirely within the natural carbon cycle. Atmos is likely selling waste CO_2 from some industrial process or from power production, so you're at least avoiding participation in that market. Obviously some other consumer is still going to buy from them and ultimately release it into the atmosphere though.
 
2021-01-27 4:59:44 PM  

Fark that Pixel: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: dericwater: The sugars that the yeast eats come from plants, which create them from photosynthesis:
CO2 + H2O + sunlight --> plant stuff.

Why stop there?  The relevant plantstuff being C6H12O6(Glucose). 

Yeast then converts the C6H12O6 to  2 C2H6O  + 2 CO2 .

Or, rephrased, each molecule of simple sugar becomes two molecules of ethanol and carbon dioxide each.

So, yes, glucose and sucrose have CO2 in it.

hey, I said I make great beer. Not that I was a chemist :-) thank you!


Bottom line is that brewing beer takes existing CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it back out into the atmosphere, so no net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.
 
2021-01-27 5:02:12 PM  
so how are they getting the power to make the dry ice?
 
2021-01-27 5:08:49 PM  

dericwater: Bottom line is that brewing beer takes existing CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it back out into the atmosphere, so no net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.


That's not the bottom line.

Commercial CO2 is made by burning natural gas. So decreasing the demand for Commercial CO2 by utilizing the carbon cycle rather than wasting it is indeed reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
 
2021-01-27 5:53:13 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: dericwater: Bottom line is that brewing beer takes existing CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it back out into the atmosphere, so no net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.

That's not the bottom line.

Commercial CO2 is made by burning natural gas. So decreasing the demand for Commercial CO2 by utilizing the carbon cycle rather than wasting it is indeed reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.


All right, that's a fair point.
 
2021-01-27 6:22:48 PM  
Food, but I will drop this small factoid here : If fermenting an ale or a "steam" lager ( that means above normal temps of max 70F, not actual steam of h2o , then placing fermenters ( preferably in a water bath covered in towels if using glass carboys ) in a growroom that does not exceed 75f - one will increase ones yield of cannabis.

I have not looked into the chem science as to why the hell they are getting "liquid" co2 out of the fermenters, but I was never large scale at brewing ( 2bbl all grain max, me ) but I will have to read into it.
I always just did a krausening at a finished batch so it would have still been mostly in solution, carbonating the beer.
Damn though- I wish Dr Fix was still around to talk to about this- that man was a passionate brewer, chemist and mathematician .
https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Bre​w​ing-Science-George-Fix/dp/0937381179

I got mine through the same homebrew store as my ( and formerly his ) guild, and the second edition through the AHA. Where he did a major, and I mean *major* rethink after a trip to Spaten and Paulaner breweries ( among many others who were doing serious work into the processeses we had taken for granted for hundreds of years.
Sadly, only the first copy got his ( and Lauries' ) autographs, as the math and chemistry geeks flocked to him like moths to light at a festival and he was far too busy and then he died before we met again.
 
2021-01-27 6:28:28 PM  

alienated: Food, but I will drop this small factoid here : If fermenting an ale or a "steam" lager ( that means above normal temps of max 70F, not actual steam of h2o , then placing fermenters ( preferably in a water bath covered in towels if using glass carboys ) in a growroom that does not exceed 75f - one will increase ones yield of cannabis.

I have not looked into the chem science as to why the hell they are getting "liquid" co2 out of the fermenters, but I was never large scale at brewing ( 2bbl all grain max, me ) but I will have to read into it.
I always just did a krausening at a finished batch so it would have still been mostly in solution, carbonating the beer.
Damn though- I wish Dr Fix was still around to talk to about this- that man was a passionate brewer, chemist and mathematician .
https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Brew​ing-Science-George-Fix/dp/0937381179

I got mine through the same homebrew store as my ( and formerly his ) guild, and the second edition through the AHA. Where he did a major, and I mean *major* rethink after a trip to Spaten and Paulaner breweries ( among many others who were doing serious work into the processeses we had taken for granted for hundreds of years.
Sadly, only the first copy got his ( and Lauries' ) autographs, as the math and chemistry geeks flocked to him like moths to light at a festival and he was far too busy and then he died before we met again.


That is all well and good, but I'd much prefer a lager to a ale or steam beer. Although to be fair I've never made a steam beer
 
2021-01-27 6:38:30 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: dericwater: Bottom line is that brewing beer takes existing CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it back out into the atmosphere, so no net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.

That's not the bottom line.

Commercial CO2 is made by burning natural gas. So decreasing the demand for Commercial CO2 by utilizing the carbon cycle rather than wasting it is indeed reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.


But surely that commercial CO2 is simply a byproduct of existing power generation? Nobody's insane enough to be burning gas only to make CO2.... right?

Please tell me that's right, because if we're that insanely wasteful on multiple fronts then this country deserves to fall into economic ruin.
 
2021-01-27 6:42:06 PM  

The Brown Word: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: dericwater: Bottom line is that brewing beer takes existing CO2 out of the atmosphere and puts it back out into the atmosphere, so no net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.

That's not the bottom line.

Commercial CO2 is made by burning natural gas. So decreasing the demand for Commercial CO2 by utilizing the carbon cycle rather than wasting it is indeed reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

But surely that commercial CO2 is simply a byproduct of existing power generation? Nobody's insane enough to be burning gas only to make CO2.... right?

Please tell me that's right, because if we're that insanely wasteful on multiple fronts then this country deserves to fall into economic ruin.


Well we wouldn't have to keep making more if the darn plants would quit eating it :-)
 
2021-01-27 6:46:02 PM  

Fark that Pixel: Although to be fair I've never made a steam beer


steam beer is a Lager , as revived by Fritz Maytag ( oh yes, he is  part of the family that made the best damn washers and dryers and the most bored repairpeople evar )


https://www.anchorbrewing.com/beer/an​c​hor_steam
 
2021-01-27 7:54:29 PM  

alienated: Fark that Pixel: Although to be fair I've never made a steam beer

steam beer is a Lager , as revived by Fritz Maytag ( oh yes, he is  part of the family that made the best damn washers and dryers and the most bored repairpeople evar )


https://www.anchorbrewing.com/beer/anc​hor_steam


Very cool piece of history to know thank you!
 
2021-01-27 8:32:03 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.


I have never tried it, but I know people who ferment batches in a Corney keg. Then they vent that keg into a second keg of sanitizer. The CO2 pushes out the sanitizer and you have an empty keg completely purged of oxygen ready to fill with beer.
 
2021-01-27 8:44:52 PM  

mechgreg: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.

I have never tried it, but I know people who ferment batches in a Corney keg. Then they vent that keg into a second keg of sanitizer. The CO2 pushes out the sanitizer and you have an empty keg completely purged of oxygen ready to fill with beer.


we alway like bottling better, Just a matter of preference
 
2021-01-27 8:48:10 PM  

Fark that Pixel: mechgreg: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.

I have never tried it, but I know people who ferment batches in a Corney keg. Then they vent that keg into a second keg of sanitizer. The CO2 pushes out the sanitizer and you have an empty keg completely purged of oxygen ready to fill with beer.

we alway like bottling better, Just a matter of preference


I bottle-condition with 22oz'ers. However if I were mass producing to make a buck rather than doing it as a hobby I'd totally do a forced CO2 carbonation system.
 
2021-01-27 9:11:26 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Fark that Pixel: mechgreg: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.

I have never tried it, but I know people who ferment batches in a Corney keg. Then they vent that keg into a second keg of sanitizer. The CO2 pushes out the sanitizer and you have an empty keg completely purged of oxygen ready to fill with beer.

we alway like bottling better, Just a matter of preference

I bottle-condition with 22oz'ers. However if I were mass producing to make a buck rather than doing it as a hobby I'd totally do a forced CO2 carbonation system.


I think the only way I'll do it for a living was a bar, So the beer would be on tap and I would have it in Cornelius kegs or something similar. But I agree with you if you're selling models they don't transport well and people don't understand the yeast
 
2021-01-27 10:21:25 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Fark that Pixel: mechgreg: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.

I have never tried it, but I know people who ferment batches in a Corney keg. Then they vent that keg into a second keg of sanitizer. The CO2 pushes out the sanitizer and you have an empty keg completely purged of oxygen ready to fill with beer.

we alway like bottling better, Just a matter of preference

I bottle-condition with 22oz'ers. However if I were mass producing to make a buck rather than doing it as a hobby I'd totally do a forced CO2 carbonation system.


That's cool as long as you are enjoying it keep doing what works. I have been brewing since about 2012 and after about three years I switched from bottling to kegging and haven't really looked back. All it took were a couple of really annoying bottling experiences to push me away from it, including one where I dropped a full bottle on the floor and the bottling wand got clogged. Also a bunch of times where the priming sugar didn't mix right and carbonation was all over the place.

But having beer on tap is kind of dangerous too though, since you aren't limited to single bottle increments. You can have a bunch of small glasses whenever you want or pour yourself a huge stein of beer.
 
2021-01-27 10:42:10 PM  

mechgreg: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Fark that Pixel: mechgreg: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: freakdiablo: I'm too dumb to crunch the numbers, but wouldn't be surprised if the amount of CO2 directly from fermentation is compared to the rest of their operation.

It's a surprisingly large amount. A really Q&D answer is approximately 20L of CO2 per 1L of wort  (much more detail here).

I only brew 5 gallons at a time and I know there's a pretty big difference in weight between wort and finished brew. I've also thought it was ridiculous that I let all that CO2 escape into the air and then have carbonate it later. My operation is way too small to justify a recapture system though. I'm glad it's apparently working out for the brewery.

I have never tried it, but I know people who ferment batches in a Corney keg. Then they vent that keg into a second keg of sanitizer. The CO2 pushes out the sanitizer and you have an empty keg completely purged of oxygen ready to fill with beer.

we alway like bottling better, Just a matter of preference

I bottle-condition with 22oz'ers. However if I were mass producing to make a buck rather than doing it as a hobby I'd totally do a forced CO2 carbonation system.

That's cool as long as you are enjoying it keep doing what works. I have been brewing since about 2012 and after about three years I switched from bottling to kegging and haven't really looked back. All it took were a couple of really annoying bottling experiences to push me away from it, including one where I dropped a full bottle on the floor and the bottling wand got clogged. Also a bunch of times where the priming sugar didn't mix right and carbonation was all over the place.

But having beer on tap is kind of dangerous too though, since you aren't limited to single bottle increments. You can have a bunch of small glasses whenever you want or pour yourself a huge stein of beer.


Nothing wrong with

Conditioning in kegs, but for me just don't mechanically ferment them for the best beer, sorry. And the main reason we never switched to kegs was just that, always available might've been too much
 
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