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(NBC News)   Democrats introduce bill to make Washington D.C. 51st state of America. Subby is not sure about that. Didn't they just have a violent insurrection attempt there?   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Democratic Party, Nancy Pelosi, United States Senate, Joe Biden, Senate Democrats, Steny Hoyer, Washington, D.C., United States House of Representatives  
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2021-01-27 2:18:37 PM  
Oh yea... this will pass the senate... sure...
 
2021-01-27 2:24:36 PM  
NEW MODEL ARMY - 51St State - 1986
Youtube 7Dw_aj68Gqg
 
2021-01-27 2:31:21 PM  
This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all
 
2021-01-27 2:35:37 PM  
Yes, and they didn't have a governor to authorize calling up the national guard, they had to wait for Pence to authorize it.

DC has it double bad, they not only don't have representation in congress, but they are controlled by the federal government. They are largely unable to govern themselves independently.

That needs to change, regardless of blue/red.
 
2021-01-27 2:36:16 PM  
Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.
 
2021-01-27 2:39:32 PM  

yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all


I don't think PR is a "slam dunk" in any sense that it is likely to be admitted as a state.  In many ways it suffers from the same problems as DC statehood.  Republicans see this as simply granting more power to Democrats, so they're going to oppose it.  And like DC (which has a large black population) a lot of this is going to be driven by racism.  The only thing PR has going for it is that DC was founded expressly not to be a state, while PR doesn't have that specific hang-up.  But I don't think that's the hurdle that's difficult to overcome here.

What would be nice is to propose that all American territories be treated as a state for election purposes, even if they're all just lumped in together as one state-like thing before they get official statehood.  That matters because even if we win on PR and DC, there are still places like American Samoa that don't have the right to vote and don't have a realistic chance of becoming a state any time soon.  It's insane that an American citizen living anywhere from Belgium to Beijing can still have their vote for President count, but an American living in American Somoa can't.  That's gotta change.
 
2021-01-27 2:41:29 PM  
How does Joe Manchin feel about it since his is the only vote that f*cking counts?
 
2021-01-27 2:42:38 PM  

yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all


That's one way to see it. OR you can say "let's start with the low hanging fruit, if that works keep going with the momentum created"
 
2021-01-27 2:47:38 PM  

yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all


From who exactly?
 
2021-01-27 2:50:11 PM  
Subby is not sure about that. Didn't they just have a violent insurrection attempt there?

Fits right in with how the US was formed, so I'm not sure why subby's confused.
 
2021-01-27 2:52:46 PM  
I would put some absolute baller shiat into the D.C. constitution
 
2021-01-27 2:54:07 PM  

Nuuu: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

I don't think PR is a "slam dunk" in any sense that it is likely to be admitted as a state.  In many ways it suffers from the same problems as DC statehood.  Republicans see this as simply granting more power to Democrats, so they're going to oppose it.  And like DC (which has a large black population) a lot of this is going to be driven by racism.  The only thing PR has going for it is that DC was founded expressly not to be a state, while PR doesn't have that specific hang-up.  But I don't think that's the hurdle that's difficult to overcome here.

What would be nice is to propose that all American territories be treated as a state for election purposes, even if they're all just lumped in together as one state-like thing before they get official statehood.  That matters because even if we win on PR and DC, there are still places like American Samoa that don't have the right to vote and don't have a realistic chance of becoming a state any time soon.  It's insane that an American citizen living anywhere from Belgium to Beijing can still have their vote for President count, but an American living in American Somoa can't.  That's gotta change.


I think DC is the easiest to "sell" to Americans. As terrible as that is. That reminds me, there was a great "Last week Tonight with Jon Oliver episode  a year or two ago that has the US territories and how badly they're treated as topic. Worth watching.
 
2021-01-27 2:56:36 PM  
Washington had slaves, so cancel this.
 
2021-01-27 2:57:01 PM  

Nuuu: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

I don't think PR is a "slam dunk" in any sense that it is likely to be admitted as a state.  In many ways it suffers from the same problems as DC statehood.  Republicans see this as simply granting more power to Democrats, so they're going to oppose it.  And like DC (which has a large black population) a lot of this is going to be driven by racism.  The only thing PR has going for it is that DC was founded expressly not to be a state, while PR doesn't have that specific hang-up.  But I don't think that's the hurdle that's difficult to overcome here.

What would be nice is to propose that all American territories be treated as a state for election purposes, even if they're all just lumped in together as one state-like thing before they get official statehood.  That matters because even if we win on PR and DC, there are still places like American Samoa that don't have the right to vote and don't have a realistic chance of becoming a state any time soon.  It's insane that an American citizen living anywhere from Belgium to Beijing can still have their vote for President count, but an American living in American Somoa can't.  That's gotta change.


That is an interesting "solution"... combine the population all of these various "things" (territories, D.C., Americans living abroad) into one "entity" that isn't a state, but, by law gets 2 Senators and the requisite number of reps based on that total population (and then the requisite E.V.).

When you say an "American Citizen" living aboard gets to "vote"... "where" do they get to vote, if they've been living overseas for 5-10 years lets say?  One would assume they don't have a permanent address in the U.S.... is it just their "last state" then?   As I said above... I'd change that (maybe after 1 year of their primary address being "out of country") to be represented in this effectively "Other Americans not in a state" entity.
 
2021-01-27 2:57:23 PM  

raerae1980: Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.


I remain unconvinced that PR wants to join us at this point.  We might need to give them independence.

They still deserve a ton of money, though.
 
2021-01-27 2:57:41 PM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Subby is not sure about that. Didn't they just have a violent insurrection attempt there?

Fits right in with how the US was formed, so I'm not sure why subby's confused.


Liar. The US was built peacefully by patriots. From scratch, on empty land...and god himself came by from time to time to give a thumbs up and high-five everybody. It.was.beautiful.
 
2021-01-27 2:58:04 PM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Subby is not sure about that. Didn't they just have a violent insurrection attempt there?

Fits right in with how the US was formed, so I'm not sure why subby's confused.


Yes, but its main industry is producing imbeciles.
 
2021-01-27 2:58:26 PM  
Get Guam, American Samoa, and Puerto Rico also
 
2021-01-27 2:59:35 PM  
No love for Puerto Rico?
 
2021-01-27 2:59:58 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-27 3:00:30 PM  
Why is this doomed to failure?  Yes, all the Democrats would have to vote for it.  But why wouldn't they, if they are Democrats?
 
2021-01-27 3:00:32 PM  
Next up...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-27 3:00:51 PM  
 
2021-01-27 3:00:51 PM  
Turns out Republicans are big fans of taxation without representation.
 
2021-01-27 3:02:12 PM  

ParallelUniverseParking: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

That's one way to see it. OR you can say "let's start with the low hanging fruit, if that works keep going with the momentum created"


PR was the low hanging fruit. There can be no constitutional discussion or objection, no trip to SCOTUS.

This is dildos.
 
2021-01-27 3:02:16 PM  

yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all


Well by splitting it up we least we can gauge who conservatives hate more by the flood of racist messaging that's about to spin up - Black people or Puerto Ricans

I've got hot money on Black people
 
2021-01-27 3:02:56 PM  
Do Republicans have an argument against this beyond "it takes away power from our minority party that has won the national popular vote exactly once in the last 30 years"?
 
2021-01-27 3:03:00 PM  

Gubbo: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

From who exactly?


Puerto Ricans live in all States.

Some of them are quite conservative... Until you get up in the Senate and piss on them.
 
2021-01-27 3:03:49 PM  

SavageWombat: raerae1980: Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.

I remain unconvinced that PR wants to join us at this point.  We might need to give them independence.

They still deserve a ton of money, though.


The vote in 2020 was conclusive, pro statehood
 
2021-01-27 3:04:28 PM  

physt: Oh yea... this will pass the senate... sure...


If nothing will pas the senate, why do we bother electing democrats again?

Why not form a revolutionary vanguard?
 
2021-01-27 3:04:42 PM  

SavageWombat: raerae1980: Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.

I remain unconvinced that PR wants to join us at this point.  We might need to give them independence.

They still deserve a ton of money, though.


If only they just had a vote or something enunciating their collective desires
 
2021-01-27 3:04:54 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Do Republicans have an argument against this beyond "it takes away power from our minority party that has won the national popular vote exactly once in the last 30 years"?


There are others, but those generally cannot be discussed in mixed company.
 
2021-01-27 3:05:06 PM  

SavageWombat: raerae1980: Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.

I remain unconvinced that PR wants to join us at this point.  We might need to give them independence.

They still deserve a ton of money, though.


The last resolution on it passed with a 2/3rds majority supporting becoming a state.
 
2021-01-27 3:05:06 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Do Republicans have an argument against this beyond "it takes away power from our minority party that has won the national popular vote exactly once in the last 30 years"?


LOL They will come up with some new bullshiat when they need to but for now that one is still working for them.
 
2021-01-27 3:05:21 PM  
I'm beyond SICK of this bullshiat where everything needs a super majority to even pass or be voted on. This filibuster crap has to stop.
 
2021-01-27 3:05:44 PM  

dletter: Nuuu: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

I don't think PR is a "slam dunk" in any sense that it is likely to be admitted as a state.  In many ways it suffers from the same problems as DC statehood.  Republicans see this as simply granting more power to Democrats, so they're going to oppose it.  And like DC (which has a large black population) a lot of this is going to be driven by racism.  The only thing PR has going for it is that DC was founded expressly not to be a state, while PR doesn't have that specific hang-up.  But I don't think that's the hurdle that's difficult to overcome here.

What would be nice is to propose that all American territories be treated as a state for election purposes, even if they're all just lumped in together as one state-like thing before they get official statehood.  That matters because even if we win on PR and DC, there are still places like American Samoa that don't have the right to vote and don't have a realistic chance of becoming a state any time soon.  It's insane that an American citizen living anywhere from Belgium to Beijing can still have their vote for President count, but an American living in American Somoa can't.  That's gotta change.

That is an interesting "solution"... combine the population all of these various "things" (territories, D.C., Americans living abroad) into one "entity" that isn't a state, but, by law gets 2 Senators and the requisite number of reps based on that total population (and then the requisite E.V.).

When you say an "American Citizen" living aboard gets to "vote"... "where" do they get to vote, if they've been living overseas for 5-10 years lets say?  One would assume they don't have a permanent address in the U.S.... is it just their "last state" then?   As I said above ...


It depends on state law. But the feds do say that even American citizens born abroad who never lived in the United States may still be able to vote absentee under some states' laws.  So there are at least circumstances where a person born to two American citizens in, say, Dubai, who was raised in Dubai, who lived their entire life in Dubai, and considers themselves a permanent Dubai resident, might still be able to vote in American elections and have that vote count.  But if you or I change our residence to DC or an American territory, we're disenfranchised.
 
2021-01-27 3:05:45 PM  
In before the nuke.
 
2021-01-27 3:05:56 PM  

lordduzi: Why is this doomed to failure?  Yes, all the Democrats would have to vote for it.  But why wouldn't they, if they are Democrats?


Because not all "Democrats" are actually Democrats.
 
2021-01-27 3:06:07 PM  

yohohogreengiant: Gubbo: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

From who exactly?

Puerto Ricans live in all States.

Some of them are quite conservative... Until you get up in the Senate and piss on them.


If staging a coup hasn't had repurcussions, if throwing children in cages didn't move the needle, if killing 400,00+ Americans is just a side note, then why the hell would this be the deciding factor in people leaving the GOP.
 
2021-01-27 3:06:31 PM  

Murkanen: lordduzi: Why is this doomed to failure?  Yes, all the Democrats would have to vote for it.  But why wouldn't they, if they are Democrats?

Because not all "Democrats" are actually Democrats.


Case in point.
 
2021-01-27 3:06:46 PM  
So, get rid of the filibuster and Dems can add 2 Senators to their ranks but we can't because a couple of Dems Senators are too conservative leaning.  This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2021-01-27 3:06:52 PM  
Just facing facts, it's going to be a harder sell to the American people to deny admitting DC, especially after the events of Jan 6th.

After that it lays better foundation for admitting PR.

Why? Because 1/3rd of this nation is racists if they admit it or not. They have no problem keeping "those" people out of the Union, but white people live in DC and it's clear it needed help that it was getting, also it's the Capitol and blah blah blah.

It's ok in America to deny the cries for help from "those" people but harder when they're "the good kind".

Also PR is being carved up for profits by the billionaire class, DC has already been carved.
 
2021-01-27 3:07:32 PM  

yohohogreengiant: ParallelUniverseParking: yohohogreengiant: This is cynical.

PR is a slam dunk by comparison. Any Republican that tried to get in the way would face repercussions. Puerto Ricans live in every state. The Dems didn't have the courage.

Not at all surprised, just depressed.

Not at all

That's one way to see it. OR you can say "let's start with the low hanging fruit, if that works keep going with the momentum created"

PR was the low hanging fruit. There can be no constitutional discussion or objection, no trip to SCOTUS.

This is dildos.


You REALLY think the constitution matters that much ? I think who people percieve as "real Americans" and who they don't see as a part of it matters way more.It is horrible that it is that way, but I believe that's the situation we have.
 
2021-01-27 3:08:06 PM  
Subby, just wait until conservatives use the same scams we did this summer to riot. We are f'ed when they invoke black criminals as a justification to loot burn and destroy the country, like we did.  At least we still have George Floyd to still lean on and there will be other black criminals in the future, we just have to get to them before conservative do.
 
2021-01-27 3:09:05 PM  

Murkanen: SavageWombat: raerae1980: Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.

I remain unconvinced that PR wants to join us at this point.  We might need to give them independence.

They still deserve a ton of money, though.

The last resolution on it passed with a 2/3rds majority supporting becoming a state.


This was a "shall we immediately become a state or not vote"... In the past this vote was purposefully farked with by adding a "stay status quo" option.

So it's definitive
 
2021-01-27 3:09:55 PM  

SavageWombat: raerae1980: Good.  Now introduce Puerto Rico.

I remain unconvinced that PR wants to join us at this point.  We might need to give them independence.

They still deserve a ton of money, though.



In PR, the political divide is along the Statehood/Remain Territory axis.  It's the big question, sort of what being Scottish is probably like now, but with better food.
 
2021-01-27 3:10:42 PM  
Democrats introduce bill to make

Let me stop you right there.  Democrats use the Congress to introduce ...

Republicans would rather monetize the process, and so there are dating apps with multiple  revenue streams -- advertising, user data sales, user membership, occasional sex for sale, occasional blackmail schemes, VPN kick backs, etc.
 
2021-01-27 3:11:35 PM  

Gubbo: Murkanen: lordduzi: Why is this doomed to failure?  Yes, all the Democrats would have to vote for it.  But why wouldn't they, if they are Democrats?

Because not all "Democrats" are actually Democrats.

Case in point.


How does bringing up Manchin and Sinema demonstrate your point about people refusing to leave the GOP?
 
2021-01-27 3:12:04 PM  

HerptheDerp: Just facing facts, it's going to be a harder sell to the American people to deny admitting DC, especially after the events of Jan 6th.

After that it lays better foundation for admitting PR.

Why? Because 1/3rd of this nation is racists if they admit it or not. They have no problem keeping "those" people out of the Union, but white people live in DC and it's clear it needed help that it was getting, also it's the Capitol and blah blah blah.

It's ok in America to deny the cries for help from "those" people but harder when they're "the good kind".

Also PR is being carved up for profits by the billionaire class, DC has already been carved.


PR is a colony for the billionaire class. It's an economic (from sugar) military investment since 1898.

"This is known"

3 million Americans live here, with millions more in the States and abroad.

They voted for statehood conclusively in 2020. Stop farking around with DC and just do this now.
 
2021-01-27 3:12:30 PM  
Welp, there's another one on the ignore list. It is only reserved for the worst fascists and white supremacists but this one was easy.
 
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