Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   Now that they've decided to not risk hurting Mitch McConnell's feelings by killing the filibuster, here's a Slatesplanation of how Senate Democrats can still accomplish anything. Subby assumes it just involves "surrendering to all Republican demands"   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Fail, United States Senate, budget reconciliation, reconciliation's rules, Reconciliation bills, enough Republicans, former Senate Parliamentarian Robert Dove, Sen. Gamera, Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974  
•       •       •

707 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2021 at 5:53 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



47 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-01-27 2:10:27 PM  
1. Ask politely
2. Remember, the voters wanted Republican-lite, not any of the shiat you actually promised them
3. A vote from a deplorable is worth two votes from someone that will actually vote for you based on your stated platform
 
2021-01-27 3:30:28 PM  
It's just pure spite and bile that is even keeping McConnell alive. He plainly said that Trump incited the attack on the Capital but won't vote to convict. Just farking die already, for the love of Christ.
 
2021-01-27 3:59:49 PM  
They are not killing it now, that doesn't mean they won't kill it later.  So Mitch would be wise to use it judiciously.
 
2021-01-27 4:16:49 PM  
Oh get rammed Subby.
 
2021-01-27 5:29:30 PM  

Mugato: It's just pure spite and bile that is even keeping McConnell alive.


He's more stigginit now than man.  Twisted and evil.
 
2021-01-27 5:52:45 PM  
*snackbar-like-submitting detected*
 
2021-01-27 5:55:47 PM  
Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.
 
2021-01-27 5:56:15 PM  
Here's a compilation of this vs that Biden can do with no legislation at all:

https://prospect.org/day-one-agenda

And that isn't even a complete list.  If Democrats bring that weak sauce "but Republicans!" bullshiat in 2022, they deserve whatever they get.  Go big, Biden, any non-Trump (non-dumbass who cares about results) Republican certainly would.
 
2021-01-27 5:57:44 PM  

EvilEgg: They are not killing it now, that doesn't mean they won't kill it later.  So Mitch would be wise to use it judiciously.


What could he possibly use it for that would in any way be justified and not just crass obstructionism?
 
2021-01-27 5:59:51 PM  

qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside historical trend.


FTFY

Anyways, if this ends up like another Obama legacy where we just let Mitch run the whole damn show, then at that point i'm not even gunna blame Chuck S... I'd blame Biden. He lived through it, he was literally in the room with it, he knows how this plays out. It's really on Biden's desk to get his party to pull together in unity and telling the GOP to fark off.

For any conservative (D) holdouts, just threaten to kick 'em out of the party.
 
2021-01-27 6:01:21 PM  

qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.


I take it you defend them for a living.
 
2021-01-27 6:01:33 PM  

EvilEgg: They are not killing it now, that doesn't mean they won't kill it later.  So Mitch would be wise to use it judiciously.


He wants them to kill it so the next time Conservatives control the Senate and House, they can do whatever they want.  One of the reasons bipartisanship has stopped is because McConnell and the GOP leaders have threatened everyone with (I assume) a lack of funding and ostracism from the party if members to not vote according to how party leaders want them to vote.
 
2021-01-27 6:03:52 PM  
The French Method?
 
2021-01-27 6:06:40 PM  

harleyquinnical: EvilEgg: They are not killing it now, that doesn't mean they won't kill it later.  So Mitch would be wise to use it judiciously.

He wants them to kill it so the next time Conservatives control the Senate and House, they can do whatever they want.


They will do that anyway.
 
2021-01-27 6:10:29 PM  
Budget reconciliation rule stretching. Fantastic.

Fix the filibuster if you don't want to remove it. And make them pay for invoking it.
 
2021-01-27 6:11:12 PM  
"Practically speaking, this means that if Democrats want to enact most of their agenda, they will have to rely on the somewhat byzantine and widely misunderstood process known as budget reconciliation negotiation,"
 
2021-01-27 6:11:28 PM  

qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.


This. Also, it's not as though the Democrats currently have the votes to kill the filibuster (at least now anyway). They need to focus on persuading Manchin, Sinema and other holdous to kill the filibuster. The best way to do that is to bring as many votes to the floor as possibe to force McConnell to filibustet them and to organize a pressure campaign aimed at the democratic holdouts including the threat of potential primary challengers. Make it so that it is in their best interests politically to kill it.

That being said it will be easier to persuade the democrat holdouts to kill it than it will be to convince Republicans not to use it.
 
2021-01-27 6:11:34 PM  
The underlying effect we have to grapple with is,

(at the ballot box) Democrats will be punished for even perceived mistakes, while Republicans are immune from backlash from all but the most severe transgressions (even then).

Everything Democrats have to do is a Sophie's Choice for them, while Republicans just sit back in bad faith and poke holes.

/This is much like my job, where I show up and get paid to be set up for failure every day.
//So I'm getting a  kick.
 
2021-01-27 6:13:00 PM  

austerity101: EvilEgg: They are not killing it now, that doesn't mean they won't kill it later.  So Mitch would be wise to use it judiciously.

What could he possibly use it for that would in any way be justified and not just crass obstructionism?


They are panicking about socialism because once people get a taste of it, then they won't let go of it.
 
2021-01-27 6:13:09 PM  
Spineless idiots.
 
2021-01-27 6:13:16 PM  
There is no risk of hurting McConnell's feelings because he doesn't have any.
 
2021-01-27 6:15:31 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Budget reconciliation rule stretching. Fantastic.

Fix the filibuster if you don't want to remove it. And make them pay for invoking it.


-make people filibuster during the filibuster
-new rule, people must do so without the aid of any written materials aside from the specific written bill being filibustered
 
2021-01-27 6:15:42 PM  

qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.


I'm just not feeling that optimistic. We'll probably get back to 2015 status quo, which is a hell of a lot better than 2020, but it's not really what I want. We're not talking about the sweet potato tempura versus the broccoli tempura. It's like going from sober to getting some beer, but what I really wanted was this awesome scotch that doesn't even get made any more. I know what I want, and it's pretty unlikely it's what I'm going to get served.
 
2021-01-27 6:16:19 PM  

Mugato: It's just pure spite and bile that is even keeping McConnell alive. He plainly said that Trump incited the attack on the Capital but won't vote to convict. Just farking die already, for the love of Christ.


He may not like Trump, but if the insurrection attempt had actually achieved its stated goal of toppling the government without killing him in the process, he'd have welcomed the result.  McConnell is motivated by power and money, in that order, and he'd have adapted to the new reality if it meant keeping and expanding those things.  Just like Madame Ladybug, and just like every other Trumphumping Qanon cultist legislator from the state level onwards.
 
2021-01-27 6:16:29 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: austerity101: EvilEgg: They are not killing it now, that doesn't mean they won't kill it later.  So Mitch would be wise to use it judiciously.

What could he possibly use it for that would in any way be justified and not just crass obstructionism?

They are panicking about socialism because once people get a taste of it, then they won't let go of it.


yes. they are deathly afraid someone might do something good and realize Republicans are simply utterly and completely against any progress in this country
 
2021-01-27 6:18:47 PM  

MurphyMurphy: The underlying effect we have to grapple with is,

(at the ballot box) Democrats will be punished for even perceived mistakes, while Republicans are immune from backlash from all but the most severe transgressions (even then).

Everything Democrats have to do is a Sophie's Choice for them, while Republicans just sit back in bad faith and poke holes.

/This is much like my job, where I show up and get paid to be set up for failure every day.
//So I'm getting a  kick.


Which is why it behooves Democrats to aggressively improve the country in dramatic ways that the Republicans won't be able to challenge, disparage, or later rescind.  Healthcare?  Raising wages?  Investment in new energy and infrastructure?  Disaster relief?  Those are really hard to argue against, and even harder to pull back.
 
2021-01-27 6:19:37 PM  
Conservatives are openly enemies of the U.S..

Ruin them.  Ruin them all.
 
2021-01-27 6:22:13 PM  

austerity101: MurphyMurphy: The underlying effect we have to grapple with is,

(at the ballot box) Democrats will be punished for even perceived mistakes, while Republicans are immune from backlash from all but the most severe transgressions (even then).

Everything Democrats have to do is a Sophie's Choice for them, while Republicans just sit back in bad faith and poke holes.

/This is much like my job, where I show up and get paid to be set up for failure every day.
//So I'm getting a  kick.

Which is why it behooves Democrats to aggressively improve the country in dramatic ways that the Republicans won't be able to challenge, disparage, or later rescind.  Healthcare?  Raising wages?  Investment in new energy and infrastructure?  Disaster relief?  Those are really hard to argue against, and even harder to pull back.


I have to agree. At this point if all moves are likely to lead to backlash in 2022. They need to go big.
It's the one play they haven't made (because their money ppl get nervous) but we have the President that see's the need and we have the opportunity. I say strike while the iron is hot.
 
2021-01-27 6:25:06 PM  
Yes because Biden's liberal executive order binge is clear indication that Dems are giving in and playing nice.........

Let's just see how this plays out before trotting out the anti-Dem talking points.
 
2021-01-27 6:25:13 PM  
Dumbass trollmitter is incapable of counting to 50, which is the number of senate votes required to get rid of the filibuster.  There are not 50 senators will to vote for that.
 
2021-01-27 6:31:15 PM  
Fine, Keep the Filibuster. Kill the 60-Vote Requirement Instead.

Manchin is regurgitating one of the most common defenses of the procedure: that it forces bipartisanship, which is its own innate good. What senators and filibuster-defenders want is to return to an idealized bipartisan past. The filibuster should force compromise and bipartisanship; the fact that it doesn't is almost immaterial. Instead of fixing the filibuster, they seem to argue, the filibuster should fix the senators.

The idea we want to force bipartisanship with people who are still actively supporting someone who sent a mob to their work place to kill them kinda puzzles me.
 
2021-01-27 6:32:19 PM  
Doing nothing still helps the plutocracy.
 
2021-01-27 6:36:17 PM  
Let's flip this around, and imagine the Senate was 50/50 but with Pence as VP.

Raise your hand if you would be assured by a public statement by, say, Collins and Murkowski that they're not open to nuking the filibuster with no written guarantee, and would consider that to be McConnell "caving".
 
2021-01-27 6:40:16 PM  

Potter82: qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.

This. Also, it's not as though the Democrats currently have the votes to kill the filibuster (at least now anyway). They need to focus on persuading Manchin, Sinema and other holdous to kill the filibuster. The best way to do that is to bring as many votes to the floor as possibe to force McConnell to filibustet them and to organize a pressure campaign aimed at the democratic holdouts including the threat of potential primary challengers. Make it so that it is in their best interests politically to kill it.

That being said it will be easier to persuade the democrat holdouts to kill it than it will be to convince Republicans not to use it.


I'm convinced that Manchin is holding out for the biggest pork barrel spend of all time (like, make military contractors blush). Then he might come around.

Also, from the file of "they started it", the Dems can change the rules on their way out the door when the Rs eventually retake control.
 
2021-01-27 6:41:57 PM  

palelizard: qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.

I'm just not feeling that optimistic. We'll probably get back to 2015 status quo, which is a hell of a lot better than 2020, but it's not really what I want. We're not talking about the sweet potato tempura versus the broccoli tempura. It's like going from sober to getting some beer, but what I really wanted was this awesome scotch that doesn't even get made any more. I know what I want, and it's pretty unlikely it's what I'm going to get served.


Well, sure, but that's all entirely separate from this kerfluffle over the organizing resolution.

What McConnell wanted was a public commitment from Schumer to keep the filibuster intact. He didn't get that. Instead, he got a public reiteration of an already-public stance from two Senators who aren't even in the leadership.

Additionally, given that this was already public, what McConnell got was something he already had, and what he lost was control of the Senate.

Yeah. Big win for the Turtle there.
 
2021-01-27 6:43:05 PM  

Avigdore: "Practically speaking, this means that if Democrats want to enact most of their agenda, they will have to rely on the somewhat byzantine and widely misunderstood process known as budget reconciliation negotiation,"


This used to work back when information was slower and more scarce.

In the information age this is a dead concept. Let me explain:

First off, in a democracy us voters choose our representatives to negotiate for us based on our ideals.
Second, we voters will fire anyone who isn't winning their negotiations.
Third, when any negotiation happens, we know immediately who was the winner and who caved. This didn't used to be as true as it is now.
Fourth, every negotiation has a loser, and nobody in politics can afford to appear like they lost.

Fifth... with nobody willing to be seen losing ground in a negotiation, no negotiations can happen. One side will always opt out.
 
2021-01-27 6:53:54 PM  

baron von doodle: Potter82: qorkfiend: Are we still pretending that public announcements of already-known positions is somehow the Democrats "caving"?

This is why the dumbasses around here can't have nice things - they're only capable of seeing the downside.

This. Also, it's not as though the Democrats currently have the votes to kill the filibuster (at least now anyway). They need to focus on persuading Manchin, Sinema and other holdous to kill the filibuster. The best way to do that is to bring as many votes to the floor as possibe to force McConnell to filibustet them and to organize a pressure campaign aimed at the democratic holdouts including the threat of potential primary challengers. Make it so that it is in their best interests politically to kill it.

That being said it will be easier to persuade the democrat holdouts to kill it than it will be to convince Republicans not to use it.

I'm convinced that Manchin is holding out for the biggest pork barrel spend of all time (like, make military contractors blush). Then he might come around.

Also, from the file of "they started it", the Dems can change the rules on their way out the door when the Rs eventually retake control.


If they have to give Manchin the single largest pork barrel possible in human history and make him the head of multiple committees to kill the filibuster and for him vote for all incoming democratic legislation than so be it. They need to use the carrot and the stick here.
 
2021-01-27 7:20:19 PM  

Captain Shaky: Fourth, every negotiation has a loser, and nobody in politics can afford to appear like they lost.


You spent a lot of words showing that you don't understand what negotiation means.

Negotiation is a dialogue between two or more people or parties intended to reach a beneficial outcome over one or more issues where a conflict exists
 
2021-01-27 7:37:56 PM  
Do tell.

What possible explanation could there be that this ALWAYS happens with the Democratic Party whenever they have any majority? I mean besides the fact that the 2 parties represent the same wealthy corporations and people and use wedge issue politics to divide the electorate.
 
2021-01-27 7:44:53 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Do tell.

What possible explanation could there be that this ALWAYS happens with the Democratic Party whenever they have any majority? I mean besides the fact that the 2 parties represent the same wealthy corporations and people and use wedge issue politics to divide the electorate.


The good cop is just so nice I feel bad for them having to work with the other guy.
 
2021-01-27 9:26:31 PM  

Avigdore: Captain Shaky: Fourth, every negotiation has a loser, and nobody in politics can afford to appear like they lost.

You spent a lot of words showing that you don't understand what negotiation means.

Negotiation is a dialogue between two or more people or parties intended to reach a beneficial outcome over one or more issues where a conflict exists


Democrats routinely tried to negotiate with Republicans under Obama and Trump. Republicans routinely spit in their face, to the point of shooting down their own damn bills when they got bipartisan support.

Democrats and Republicans are using entirely different definitions for 'negotiation'. For Democrats, it means what you said. For Republicans, it means 'Democrats do everything Republicans want, and get nothing in return.'.
 
2021-01-27 9:31:32 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Do tell.

What possible explanation could there be that this ALWAYS happens with the Democratic Party whenever they have any majority? I mean besides the fact that the 2 parties represent the same wealthy corporations and people and use wedge issue politics to divide the electorate.


I get the impression that you don't actually know what happened here.
 
2021-01-27 9:49:10 PM  

lordjupiter: Yes because Biden's liberal executive order binge is clear indication that Dems are giving in and playing nice.........

Let's just see how this plays out before trotting out the anti-Dem talking points.


Okay. How long do you propose we wait?
 
2021-01-27 9:55:38 PM  

Skeleton Man: lordjupiter: Yes because Biden's liberal executive order binge is clear indication that Dems are giving in and playing nice.........

Let's just see how this plays out before trotting out the anti-Dem talking points.

Okay. How long do you propose we wait?



More than a farking week for starters.  Duh.

Adults can figure this out without help.
 
2021-01-27 10:05:22 PM  
I think suggesting that this is what "Senate Democrats" are doing is an inaccurate and dishonest characterization, and suggesting that it has anything to do with deference to McConnell is even more so.  This is really more like what "Manchin and Sinema" are doing.  Every other Democrat is doing everything they can do get them on board, and finding other ways to cut McConnell out of the process if they can't.
 
2021-01-27 11:41:58 PM  
The public still hates the Dem job killing, climate hysteria, business destruction, middle class tax increases, gender switching agenda and the House Dem losses speak loudly. The public wants the Senate as the speed bump.
 
2021-01-28 12:16:07 AM  

GallantPelham: The public still hates the Dem job killing, climate hysteria, business destruction, middle class tax increases, gender switching agenda and the House Dem losses speak loudly. The public wants the Senate as the speed bump.


Actually, the public voted as a referendum on all that concern-trolling nonsense, and decided it was concern-trolling nonsense
 
Displayed 47 of 47 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.