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(Bloomberg)   Harry Reid tells Dems to be patient, says conservative WV Dem Joe Manchin will cave on filibuster "before too long"   (bloomberg.com) divider line
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985 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2021 at 3:26 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-27 11:56:44 AM  
Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸
 
2021-01-27 12:23:33 PM  
There's a reason Manchin is against statehood for DC and Puerto Rico, too. He doesn't want to be made completely irrelevant. And yet, much like his Republican friends he must absolutely be made irrelevant if we're going to fix this country.
 
2021-01-27 1:36:18 PM  
Are we going to make Mylan the government's sole drug supplier to make his daughter happy?

I don't want to know what Joe wants as payment.
 
2021-01-27 1:53:50 PM  
If he honestly wants to advance bipartisanship (I know, I know) it should only take Mitch screwing him over a couple of times before he decides that it may be what's needed.

/Chuck should remind him of that each time it happens.
 
2021-01-27 2:07:32 PM  
Oh, good. Instead of Kentucky now West Virginia controls the whole farking country.
 
2021-01-27 3:20:12 PM  
Give the whip and actual whip and make them do their job.
 
2021-01-27 3:27:58 PM  
Two weeks, right?
 
2021-01-27 3:28:15 PM  
And Sinema?
 
2021-01-27 3:28:16 PM  

Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸


More like lots of highway job$$$ for people stuck in WV
 
2021-01-27 3:28:41 PM  
Did aliens tell Harry this?

/Area 51 is the REAL 51st state!
//Study it out sheeple!
 
2021-01-27 3:30:00 PM  

born_yesterday: Oh, good. Instead of Kentucky now West Virginia controls the whole farking country.


baby steps
 
2021-01-27 3:30:23 PM  
Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.
 
2021-01-27 3:30:35 PM  
But Farkers ASSURED me that anyone who said anything bad about Manchin was a Russian bot looking to damage the Democratic Party! Could I have been hornswaggled in this thinking?
 
2021-01-27 3:30:46 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸

More like lots of highway job$$$ for people stuck in WV


I'm good with that. Take all the federal funds we were going to give Kentucky and throw it at WV. Hell, give em Alabama and South Carolinas as well.
 
2021-01-27 3:31:08 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸

More like lots of highway job$$$ for people stuck in WV


It's a perfectly cromulent strategy. Get elected to federal office from one party in a state that generally supports the other party.  Once your house is very narrowly controlled by either party, tell both parties that you're willing to sell your vote for pork.  Make liars out of all those politicians who say that they are gonna cut pork spending out of Washington.  Profit!
 
2021-01-27 3:31:30 PM  
I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.
 
2021-01-27 3:32:13 PM  
I hope the Democrats make them actually filibuster. Do it. Make them stand there and talk for weeks, wearing catered bags to the floor so they can keep talking.

Show that to the American public and make sure the people know it's why they can't get stimulus aid.
 
2021-01-27 3:33:26 PM  

pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.


That is the dumbest farking thing I've ever heard.
 
2021-01-27 3:33:51 PM  

HerptheDerp: I hope the Democrats make them actually filibuster. Do it. Make them stand there and talk for weeks, wearing catered bags to the floor so they can keep talking.

Show that to the American public and make sure the people know it's why they can't get stimulus aid.


And then kill the filibuster and pass it all anyway.
 
2021-01-27 3:33:53 PM  

jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.


If he can do what he wants let's get it over with. Also, he still has the house to check his ass.
 
2021-01-27 3:35:25 PM  

jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.


If the Dems don't do for the people they will be losing, starting in two years. The people are going back and forth between the parties trying to find one that will do what is right for them. Biden and the Dems have 2 years to prove their case and Manchin isn't going to be helpful.
 
2021-01-27 3:35:38 PM  

jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.


You can't filibuster bills that don't get brought to the floor. Mitch only cares about it when the Dems control all three branches.
 
2021-01-27 3:37:21 PM  

jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.


Leahy was sent home last night from the hospital and at work today per reports. I just hope Democrats are figuring out who they are having for candidates in OH and PA (Fetterman hasn't officially said yes yet) for Senate.
 
2021-01-27 3:37:55 PM  

VanillaEnvelope: pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.

That is the dumbest farking thing I've ever heard.


Meanwhile there's North and South Dakota with 4 senators, and Virginia and West Virginia with another 4 Senators compared to California with the population of Canada and one of the largest economies in the world with a whopping 2, having to find 5-6 out of those ten to agree to something to pass progressive legislation.
 
2021-01-27 3:40:50 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Give the whip and actual whip and make them do their job.


Yay!
 
2021-01-27 3:42:15 PM  

eagles95: jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.

Leahy was sent home last night from the hospital and at work today per reports. I just hope Democrats are figuring out who they are having for candidates in OH and PA (Fetterman hasn't officially said yes yet) for Senate.


Dump Ohio and concentrate on PA and NC.  Give Kasich a zillion dollars to run as an indie is the only hope there.
 
2021-01-27 3:43:24 PM  
I wouldn't trust a Republican as far as I could throw them, but looks like Vt. Gov. Scott would send someone who'd caucus with the Democrats:

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessag​e​/archives/2020/10/23/scott-says-he-wou​ld-replace-sanders-with-democrat-affil​iated-independent
 
2021-01-27 3:43:52 PM  
Can't resist it:

Paul Kelly - Before Too Long (Official Video)
Youtube LerRV-CGeFU
 
2021-01-27 3:45:25 PM  

links136: VanillaEnvelope: pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.

That is the dumbest farking thing I've ever heard.

Meanwhile there's North and South Dakota with 4 senators, and Virginia and West Virginia with another 4 Senators compared to California with the population of Canada and one of the largest economies in the world with a whopping 2, having to find 5-6 out of those ten to agree to something to pass progressive legislation.


48 other states have two words best expressed by one finger for wealthy people in California and New York.
Let us know when California or New York companies pay more than slaves wages to their workers in other states.
 
2021-01-27 3:46:16 PM  

TommyDeuce: If he honestly wants to advance bipartisanship (I know, I know) it should only take Mitch screwing him over a couple of times before he decides that it may be what's needed.

/Chuck should remind him of that each time it happens.


Manchin has right-wing policy positions along with left-leaning ones, but he's legitimately a moderate in the practical sense and the filibuster is just like... one opinion he holds, not the core of his political philosophy and not vital to it.  He thinks that the filibuster is a useful part of the political process in the same way that you or I might think that we shouldn't get pineapple on our pizza when we order in, not in the way that you or I might hold the opinion that it should be illegal for someone to murder us.  It's more of a preference than a line in the sand, here.

He can legitimately just be, y'know, convinced on this one.  I mean with words and political negotiations and shiat, I don't get the impression it'll require some sort of dramatic revelation or trademark McConnel back-stabbing.  Like, the filibuster is only more useful for the people near the ideological borderline than the mainliners in theory, at this point even its practical value to him as a potential objector to majority-held positions isn't really borne out by the recent facts in evidence.
 
2021-01-27 3:46:42 PM  

Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸


I want to believe this means that aliens will replace Joe Manchin with a doppelganger who will go along with nuking the filibuster.
 
2021-01-27 3:46:47 PM  

eagles95: jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.

Leahy was sent home last night from the hospital and at work today per reports. I just hope Democrats are figuring out who they are having for candidates in OH and PA (Fetterman hasn't officially said yes yet) for Senate.


That's terrific news, but I was really using Leahy as an example of something that could happen at any time. Senators are farking ancient as a general rule, and Democrats tend to be older. (An average of 20 years older in the House!)

The Senate itself is designed to always give an advantage to the Republicans. Letting "land" vote, thereby giving themselves a permanent advantage in one house, was the extortion the South demanded in order to agree to join the Union in the first place. Democrats will always have the weaker hand, meaning the filibuster actually helps them on average. (If they had the guts to use it like McConnell did, which they typically don't.)

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of the filibuster and admit Puerto Rico + DC as States to make the Senate more representative. It's absurd that Democratic senators represent 20 million more people than Republican senators, yet it's still 50-50. If you think that's fine or "by design," then you have to concede that you don't really believe in the concept of majority representative Democracy unless the rules are stacked in your favor.

Even after that, Republicans would still have the advantage, but at least it'd be closer. If I truly had my way, I'd do what the UK did and just slowly eliminate the power of our equivalent of the House of Lords. It's a stupid institution to begin with.
 
2021-01-27 3:47:24 PM  
God I wish Schumer would drag Manchin and Sinema into a conference room by their hair and slam the door. Tell them under no uncertain terms if they don't fall in line, he will make it his mission to make their lives a living hell. A girl can dream.
 
2021-01-27 3:49:24 PM  

sinner4ever: links136: VanillaEnvelope: pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.

That is the dumbest farking thing I've ever heard.

Meanwhile there's North and South Dakota with 4 senators, and Virginia and West Virginia with another 4 Senators compared to California with the population of Canada and one of the largest economies in the world with a whopping 2, having to find 5-6 out of those ten to agree to something to pass progressive legislation.

48 other states have two words best expressed by one finger for wealthy people in California and New York.
Let us know when California or New York companies pay more than slaves wages to their workers in other states.


Heads up: The majority of people in New York & California aren't Jeff Bezos. We're "rich" in the sense that we agreed to larger taxes, which result in better cities, which retains more educated talent.
 
2021-01-27 3:49:57 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸

More like lots of highway job$$$ for people stuck in WV


I was making a joke that referenced Men in Black, Charles Hall's psychic space aliens, Harry Reid's link to UFOs and Nevada, and Agent Mulder's poster in the X-Files.
 
2021-01-27 3:50:14 PM  

JAGChem82: But Farkers ASSURED me that anyone who said anything bad about Manchin was a Russian bot looking to damage the Democratic Party! Could I have been hornswaggled in this thinking?


Let this moment grant us all the return of "hornswaggled" into 2021's lexicon.
 
2021-01-27 3:50:19 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸

More like lots of highway job$$$ for people stuck in WV


While everyone hates the idea of pork, a lot of the disfunction around the current government has to do with moves to curtail it.  It used to be that you could take a really unpopular opinion if you could show your constituents they got something for it- "Yeah, I know you didn't like the welfare reform bill I signed, but we got $10B in highway funds to fix these bridges for that."  People understood the tradeoffs

Now, there's no reason to ever vote for a bill your constituents don't like even if you know it's absolutely necessary.  You have to pander to the extremes or you get primaried.
 
2021-01-27 3:51:44 PM  

Hopocalypse: I wouldn't trust a Republican as far as I could throw them, but looks like Vt. Gov. Scott would send someone who'd caucus with the Democrats:

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage​/archives/2020/10/23/scott-says-he-wou​ld-replace-sanders-with-democrat-affil​iated-independent


The Vermont governor doesn't dictate who West Virginia can replace. Besides, it turns out that Biden doesn't trust the Vermont governor since he's still uncommitted to nominating Sanders for a cabinet position.
 
2021-01-27 3:52:01 PM  
torn on this issue, as i don't see any party having a 60+ majority again in a long, long time. I can see it as deciding something is a "future me" problem and then wishing i had my choice back;  imagine how much even more horseshiat the R's would push through when given the opportunity.
 
2021-01-27 3:55:35 PM  

Arkanaut: Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸

I want to believe this means that aliens will replace Joe Manchin with a doppelganger who will go along with nuking the filibuster.


Don't threaten me with a good time.
 
2021-01-27 3:55:43 PM  

pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.


oh my god
No other Democrat wins a statewide race in West Virginia.
Manchin is not the problem.
The problem is Democrats got their asses handed to them in 2020 because their message was "Republicans aren't so bad, just Trump."

//that and they sent their money to dumb farking races like Kentucky and Texas
//the "vet in a red state" schtick doesn't work, stop farking trying it
 
2021-01-27 3:56:36 PM  

shinji3i: thealgorerhythm: Purple_Urkle: Are some friends, from out of town, looking into Joe Manchin?

/I want to believe. 🛸

More like lots of highway job$$$ for people stuck in WV

I'm good with that. Take all the federal funds we were going to give Kentucky and throw it at WV. Hell, give em Alabama and South Carolinas as well.


Yep.  Just pay him off.  We need to spend trillions on a variety of infrastructural needs; a billion or two is but a drop in the bucket.  Same with Sinema (it'll cost an order of magnitude more, but even eight or ten drops in a bucket are still only drops).
 
2021-01-27 3:57:51 PM  

VanillaEnvelope: pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.

That is the dumbest farking thing I've ever heard.


Yeah! If Manchin is out then then Dems won't have the committee chairs!

Unlike now where Manchin is in and we have to wait for Mitch to agree to the rules to allow the Dems to have the committee chairs
 
2021-01-27 3:57:58 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Two weeks, right?


Two years. He'll be all over it after the Dems lose the Senate again.
 
2021-01-27 3:59:36 PM  
Does anybody have a good reference for the historical use of the filibuster? ...as in, a complete list of its use over time.

I am genuinely curious as to who has used it over the past 3 decades.
 
2021-01-27 4:01:36 PM  
This is the same Joe Manchin as 10 years ago.  Get a grip.  Change isn't happening and should not be counted upon.  Dems at a max can get 3 bills passed by reconciliation in the next 2 years.  Proceed apace, do not "wait" for something that won't happen.  Hold the last one until results of 2022 election are in. Pick up 2 more seats in 22 and Bob's your uncle.
 
2021-01-27 4:01:40 PM  

moothemagiccow: pueblonative: Somebody needs to primary that mofo even if the GOP wins that seat for a term.

oh my god
No other Democrat wins a statewide race in West Virginia.
Manchin is not the problem.
The problem is Democrats got their asses handed to them in 2020 because their message was "Republicans aren't so bad, just Trump."

//that and they sent their money to dumb farking races like Kentucky and Texas
//the "vet in a red state" schtick doesn't work, stop farking trying it


That and because Democrats are so indebted to Wall Street that they have no interest in a living wage or healthcare for labor.

The two most items voters cared about most were healthcare and wages.
Florida voted for a $15 minimum wage but because Wall Street owns people like Manchin and many more in the party ,they would not vote Democrat. That tells you a lot.
 
2021-01-27 4:02:15 PM  

Hopocalypse: I wouldn't trust a Republican as far as I could throw them, but looks like Vt. Gov. Scott would send someone who'd caucus with the Democrats:

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage​/archives/2020/10/23/scott-says-he-wou​ld-replace-sanders-with-democrat-affil​iated-independent


A Republican said something, well I believe it
 
2021-01-27 4:03:45 PM  

jaerik: eagles95: jaerik: I hate the filibuster and want it to go, but keep in mind that it cuts both ways. 50-50+1 is a precarious position to be in. Patrick Leahy is ancient and in the hospital. If he dies, the Republican governor of Vermont will hand McConnell the Majority Leader seat again, and without the filibuster, McConnell will do whatever he wants.

Of course, probably none of it will get past the House and Biden, but whatever advantage the Dems thought they would get by killing the filibuster would be gone and immediately used against them.

Personally, I think it's still worth it. The filibuster is a stupid administrative trick that has only been a major feature of Senate procedure in the last several decades, was never even imagined by the Founders, didn't even come into use in its original rudimentary form until after the Civil War, and then was only used to keep Jim Crow.

Leahy was sent home last night from the hospital and at work today per reports. I just hope Democrats are figuring out who they are having for candidates in OH and PA (Fetterman hasn't officially said yes yet) for Senate.

That's terrific news, but I was really using Leahy as an example of something that could happen at any time. Senators are farking ancient as a general rule, and Democrats tend to be older. (An average of 20 years older in the House!)

The Senate itself is designed to always give an advantage to the Republicans. Letting "land" vote, thereby giving themselves a permanent advantage in one house, was the extortion the South demanded in order to agree to join the Union in the first place. Democrats will always have the weaker hand, meaning the filibuster actually helps them on average. (If they had the guts to use it like McConnell did, which they typically don't.)

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of the filibuster and admit Puerto Rico + DC as States to make the Senate more representative. It's absurd that Democratic senators represent 20 million more people than Republican sena ...


Oh I know. My state has 2 dem Senators (Carper & Coons). Carper passed senile about 8 years ago. Coons is a moderate but can be persuaded to at least move progressively to the left. But still they are 2 old white guys who are severely out of touch with normal people issues.
 
2021-01-27 4:05:23 PM  
I wouldn't wait too long, but it is possible.  It used to be that most Dems didn't want to change it at all, but after Mitch pushed things so far the only holdouts are the two most conservative Dems in the Senate.  If Mitch keeps blatantly obstructing bills that should be voted on, he may finally cause them to swing over.

And if not, Schumer made it sound like they have some alternatives to cut Mitch out of the process.
 
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