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(The New York Times)   China's attempt at taking the lead on the world stage with vaccine rollout is backfiring. So now they're pushing misinformation campaigns targeted at western Anti-Vaxxers   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Immune system, China's coronavirus vaccines, Vaccine, Vaccination, Chinese vaccines, China's vaccines, deaths of people, country's scientific prowess  
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3884 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2021 at 7:34 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-25 7:37:37 PM  
They've been slow to roll out but no major complaint about effectiveness?
 
2021-01-25 7:37:59 PM  
Yup, all episode has show is how behind China still is at medical development. I'm sure they'll be fine in a few generations but not now.
 
Oak [BareFark]
2021-01-25 7:42:54 PM  
Is this the pee-pee thing again?
 
2021-01-25 7:44:50 PM  
What? Talking bad about China on NuFark? Thats racist!
 
2021-01-25 7:46:37 PM  
Hey look a topic relevant to my volunteer freelancing. I spend a fair amount of my free time debunking fb memes my dad sends me. I've tried to tell him he's falling for foreign disinfo and he thinks I'm crazy.
 
2021-01-25 7:48:02 PM  

carnifex2005: Yup, all episode has show is how behind China still is at medical development. I'm sure they'll be fine in a few generations but not now.


That must be why we had a Pandemic Response Task Force set up in China to help the world's most populous country control a deadly disease that could spread to the rest of the world.

I wonder what happened to those guys?
 
2021-01-25 7:49:11 PM  
China: "Nobody is thanking us! Thank us now or no vaccine, only poison pine nuts!"
 
2021-01-25 7:49:46 PM  
misinformation campaigns targeted at western Anti-Vaxxers WHO THEMSELVES DELIBERATELY ISSUE MISINFORMATION

I'm not seeing a downside here
 
2021-01-25 7:50:40 PM  
Thrilled by this revelation:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-25 7:50:59 PM  
Sure it's not the best available, but if you purchase in mass quantities it also doubles as synthetic engine coolant
 
2021-01-25 7:51:05 PM  

carnifex2005: Yup, all episode has show is how behind China still is at medical development. I'm sure they'll be fine in a few generations but not now.


Are you having a stroke?  Do you smell burnt toast?
 
2021-01-25 7:52:10 PM  
Ha, good luck with that, China. Those people didn't just fall off the turnip truck. They're known for doing their due research.
 
2021-01-25 7:52:24 PM  

Kittypie070: misinformation campaigns targeted at western Anti-Vaxxers WHO THEMSELVES DELIBERATELY ISSUE MISINFORMATION

I'm not seeing a downside here


The story doesn't actually say the Chinese are targeting the dumbasses, but they are picking up the Chinese propaganda ... by design? Organic? As long as they die.
 
2021-01-25 7:53:47 PM  

Kittypie070: misinformation campaigns targeted at western Anti-Vaxxers WHO THEMSELVES DELIBERATELY ISSUE MISINFORMATION

I'm not seeing a downside here


Foreign adversaries didn't begin this with covid, they started a long time ago. This is just the covid DLC add-on. There's a chance anti-vaxxers, along with other nefarious groups, began long ago with a little help from $_pickone.
 
2021-01-25 7:54:03 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: What? Talking bad about China on NuFark? Thats racist!


Yeah someone needs to white knight China on Fark this is strange
 
2021-01-25 7:55:23 PM  

AirGee: carnifex2005: Yup, all episode has show is how behind China still is at medical development. I'm sure they'll be fine in a few generations but not now.

That must be why we had a Pandemic Response Task Force set up in China to help the world's most populous country control a deadly disease that could spread to the rest of the world.

I wonder what happened to those guys?


Oh there we go.  Not only isn't it China's fault it's Trumps.
 
2021-01-25 8:00:55 PM  
Wasnt their goal from the beginning to have a pandemic?
 
2021-01-25 8:01:59 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: the money is in the banana stand: What? Talking bad about China on NuFark? Thats racist!

Yeah someone needs to white knight China on Fark this is strange


Have a little patience. I'm sure they'll be here soon enough.
 
2021-01-25 8:02:03 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: What? Talking bad about China on NuFark? Thats racist!


NuFark is best Fark, yes.
 
2021-01-25 8:03:45 PM  

ImmutableTenderloin: They've been slow to roll out but no major complaint about effectiveness?


It looks like many countries in independent testing have found much lower rates of effectiveness than claimed. Sinovac says that's because other countries count mild illness as a failure, where Sinovac counted it as a success.

Of course this is the country that imprisoned the man who discovered COVID-19 so I'm not tempted to trust anything from anyone who lives in or has family who lives in China.
 
jvl [BareFark]
2021-01-25 8:04:51 PM  

ImmutableTenderloin: They've been slow to roll out but no major complaint about effectiveness?


In the Fine Article is says effectiveness is also a problem.
 
2021-01-25 8:08:37 PM  
Rollout is backfiring? I thought the 50.4% efficacy of the Sinovac vaccine would be more of an issue. Even if you vaccinate 100% of the population, which is probably not even possible in the first place, that wont provide herd immunity.
 
2021-01-25 8:10:04 PM  
If the only choice was the Chinese vaccine. I'd take my chances with the covid.
 
2021-01-25 8:11:01 PM  

jvl: ImmutableTenderloin: They've been slow to roll out but no major complaint about effectiveness?

In the Fine Article is says effectiveness is also a problem.


Well, when your country is known for having more lead in the paint on the toy than on the circuit board inside the toy...
 
2021-01-25 8:11:15 PM  
I just assume any official statement from the Chinese government is a farking lie.
 
2021-01-25 8:13:31 PM  
Realizing that China is going to do what they are going to do and good luck changing that, one is left to wonder if the US is going to run with that ball, or wait until China gets it right.

Trump is gone. I hope the US gets back in the fight and starts moving its diplomatic machine into high gear. It has to start putting things right again rather than simply reacting to others and hoping they screw up.
 
2021-01-25 8:15:24 PM  

Enigmamf: It looks like many countries in independent testing have found much lower rates of effectiveness than claimed. Sinovac says that's because other countries count mild illness as a failure, where Sinovac counted it as a success.


Geez. Did Pfizer or Moderna evaluate their vaccines by those same metrics? The if-you-get-sick-from-the-disease-we-we​re-supposed-to-protect-you-from-gettin​g-it's-still-all-good metrics?
 
2021-01-25 8:16:14 PM  
don't trust China, China is asshole
Youtube L3tnH4FGbd0
 
2021-01-25 8:18:49 PM  

carnifex2005: Yup, all episode has show is how behind China still is at medical development. I'm sure they'll be fine in a few generations but not now.


3, all episode has show is how behind China still is at elements of medical development. I'm sure they'll be fine in a few generations but not now.

FTFY
 
2021-01-25 8:21:51 PM  

camaroash: jvl: ImmutableTenderloin: They've been slow to roll out but no major complaint about effectiveness?

In the Fine Article is says effectiveness is also a problem.

Well, when your country is known for having more lead in the paint on the toy than on the circuit board inside the toy...


China is very generous, lead isn't free* you know, and here is China giving you more of it.

*I don't know, are we at the point where I can get paid for accepting some lead yet?
 
2021-01-25 8:23:55 PM  
Conservatives yesterday: China only lies. Vaccine is microchip reptoid.

Conservatives today: Look at how inept China is. Clearly, an effective Covid vaccine is a good thing because the virus isn't a hoax or completely overblown. I will now stop saying that the virus has a 99.999999% survivability rate.
 
2021-01-25 8:24:05 PM  

Nidiot: Rollout is backfiring? I thought the 50.4% efficacy of the Sinovac vaccine would be more of an issue. Even if you vaccinate 100% of the population, which is probably not even possible in the first place, that wont provide herd immunity.


It is a really gray area. 50% is really low, of course. You would not want to bet your life on 50%, but you wouldn't be.

If everyone is fully masked up and taking all the precautions they are taking now, then putting a 50% on top of that REALLY slows the spread. "Herd immunity" is a euphemism for a population among which the virus can not spread. A virus looks around and finds nobody to infect. It just dies. Theoretically, if you maintain an R below 1 long enough, the virus will die out.

50% is great if you have access to nothing else. And China basically doesn't. 50% can probably slow down major breakouts enough that they can be controlled without lockdowns. It can support contact tracing. It can "harden" health workers and service workers.

It is a useful tool to prevent the spread of infection. Masks and other measures can do that too. Some people around the world can't be choosers and just pull a vaccine off the shelf and pay their money. And even the people getting the 90% good stuff will have to wear masks, etc.

There is no cure. Vaccines are not a cure.
 
2021-01-25 8:27:40 PM  
 
2021-01-25 8:32:36 PM  

2fardownthread: Nidiot: Rollout is backfiring? I thought the 50.4% efficacy of the Sinovac vaccine would be more of an issue. Even if you vaccinate 100% of the population, which is probably not even possible in the first place, that wont provide herd immunity.

It is a really gray area. 50% is really low, of course. You would not want to bet your life on 50%, but you wouldn't be.

If everyone is fully masked up and taking all the precautions they are taking now, then putting a 50% on top of that REALLY slows the spread. "Herd immunity" is a euphemism for a population among which the virus can not spread. A virus looks around and finds nobody to infect. It just dies. Theoretically, if you maintain an R below 1 long enough, the virus will die out.

50% is great if you have access to nothing else. And China basically doesn't. 50% can probably slow down major breakouts enough that they can be controlled without lockdowns. It can support contact tracing. It can "harden" health workers and service workers.

It is a useful tool to prevent the spread of infection. Masks and other measures can do that too. Some people around the world can't be choosers and just pull a vaccine off the shelf and pay their money. And even the people getting the 90% good stuff will have to wear masks, etc.

There is no cure. Vaccines are not a cure.


Resources spent producing a 50% effective vaccine are better used producing a 75% effective vaccine. But the primary point of China's vaccine doesn't appear to be providing herd immunity. Politics and money seem to be higher priorities.
 
2021-01-25 8:33:15 PM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: But the one percenters are flying out and purchasing the Chinese vaccine.


Good for them. I hope they get it and die from side effects
 
2021-01-25 8:33:40 PM  
China will eat itself when there's no women for the men to fark.
 
2021-01-25 8:34:22 PM  
The Anti-Vax campaign has always been driven by foreign propaganda.  It was mostly Russia, going right back to Wakefield, but once they'd gotten traction, everyone else piled on cheaply.  Whereas the Incel / Red Pill stuff was mostly China, initially, and then Iran jumped on that in a big way.

These idiot movements aren't entirely the fault of hostile foreign government efforts, god knows -- local government asswipes and other bad actors have done a lot of opportunistic manipulation as well.  But they're largely intentionally shaped, promoted, and funded by foreign governments, yes.  Since the beginning.
 
2021-01-25 8:34:49 PM  

jim32rr: the money is in the banana stand: What? Talking bad about China on NuFark? Thats racist!

NuFark is best Fark, yes.


I don't even care about China - I'm just here to whine about other Farkers, and the things I imagine they believe, and how much it offends me that people I disagree with dare to post here.
 
2021-01-25 8:35:41 PM  

2fardownthread: Nidiot: Rollout is backfiring? I thought the 50.4% efficacy of the Sinovac vaccine would be more of an issue. Even if you vaccinate 100% of the population, which is probably not even possible in the first place, that wont provide herd immunity.

It is a really gray area. 50% is really low, of course. You would not want to bet your life on 50%, but you wouldn't be.

If everyone is fully masked up and taking all the precautions they are taking now, then putting a 50% on top of that REALLY slows the spread. "Herd immunity" is a euphemism for a population among which the virus can not spread. A virus looks around and finds nobody to infect. It just dies. Theoretically, if you maintain an R below 1 long enough, the virus will die out.

50% is great if you have access to nothing else. And China basically doesn't. 50% can probably slow down major breakouts enough that they can be controlled without lockdowns. It can support contact tracing. It can "harden" health workers and service workers.

It is a useful tool to prevent the spread of infection. Masks and other measures can do that too. Some people around the world can't be choosers and just pull a vaccine off the shelf and pay their money. And even the people getting the 90% good stuff will have to wear masks, etc.

There is no cure. Vaccines are not a cure.


We're having some trouble getting people to mask up and take precautions. Even the Dutch, a people who once upon a time were resilient enough to survive terrible famine, burned down a testing clinic merely because staying indoors was just too damn difficult. Too many people today cannot deal with a bit of inconvenience. I'm sure that a lot of the enthusiasm for a vaccine lies in the idea that people can take that and get back to socialising like it's 2019.

Admittedly China wont put up with that sort of bullshiat, given they will weld people indoors when necessary.

But still, better vaccines do exist, they aren't a pipe dream.
 
2021-01-25 8:38:55 PM  
Putting China aside, I just want to remind everyone that there is a "rest of the world" out there.

90% and 95% and multijillion dollar programs to get people vaccinated is simply wonderful, but there are another 7 plus billion people who are eventually going to need something, so let's move along. If we all agree that 50% and 60% effectiveness is just for the slum people, then we can agree that doing something more or better or faster would benefit them.

Who is doing that? The Australians gave up, for good reason, as did Merck yesterday. Johnson and Johnson is still pushing forward. Is anybody else baking the pie, or are we just going to argue as we portion it out?

This is a perfect chance to win some hearts and minds, so let's not spend too much time with boasting and bickering in public about "my vaccine" when most of the world just wants "a vaccine."

tldr: The Titanic passengers in steerage are watching the rich people fight over lifeboats.
 
2021-01-25 8:44:55 PM  
China can just buy more effective vaccines.  They have gobs of money.
 
2021-01-25 8:51:35 PM  

dbaggins: China can just buy more effective vaccines.  They have gobs of money.


There's no way that's going to happen, it'd be a ruinous loss of face for the Chinese government. They'd probably just lock down hard enough to push R below 1 with their indigeneously produced vaccines.
 
2021-01-25 8:52:41 PM  

Nidiot: Enigmamf: It looks like many countries in independent testing have found much lower rates of effectiveness than claimed. Sinovac says that's because other countries count mild illness as a failure, where Sinovac counted it as a success.

Geez. Did Pfizer or Moderna evaluate their vaccines by those same metrics? The if-you-get-sick-from-the-disease-we-we​re-supposed-to-protect-you-from-gettin​g-it's-still-all-good metrics?


Pfizer and Moderna included mild illness as a failure in their '95% effective' statistics.

Nidiot: Rollout is backfiring? I thought the 50.4% efficacy of the Sinovac vaccine would be more of an issue. Even if you vaccinate 100% of the population, which is probably not even possible in the first place, that wont provide herd immunity.


It would reduce the rate of spread, and if it is correct that those vaccinated primarily experience mild symptoms, it would still significantly reduce hospitalization, mortality, and probably the long-term detrimental effects of COVID. So it would still be quite valuable.
 
2021-01-25 8:57:29 PM  

ChiliBoots: dbaggins: China can just buy more effective vaccines.  They have gobs of money.

There's no way that's going to happen, it'd be a ruinous loss of face for the Chinese government. They'd probably just lock down hard enough to push R below 1 with their indigeneously produced vaccines.


pfft.  If they want to "save face" then they can steal the recipe, or reverse engineer it and make it domestically.  but I think they can finesse the domestic propaganda and just outbid everyone.
 
2021-01-25 8:58:05 PM  

ChiliBoots: dbaggins: China can just buy more effective vaccines.  They have gobs of money.

There's no way that's going to happen, it'd be a ruinous loss of face for the Chinese government. They'd probably just lock down hard enough to push R below 1 with their indigeneously produced vaccines.


Meaning all the important people are getting themselves the Pfizer and keeping quiet. The peasants can get the crappy vaccine China came up with.
 
2021-01-25 9:04:16 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Sure it's not the best available, but if you purchase in mass quantities it also doubles as synthetic engine coolant


and look at how that floor shines!
 
2021-01-25 9:04:26 PM  
The Problem With China's Covid-19 Vaccine
Youtube 6TclVRnXMVc
 
2021-01-25 9:06:05 PM  

dbaggins: ChiliBoots: dbaggins: China can just buy more effective vaccines.  They have gobs of money.

There's no way that's going to happen, it'd be a ruinous loss of face for the Chinese government. They'd probably just lock down hard enough to push R below 1 with their indigeneously produced vaccines.

pfft.  If they want to "save face" then they can steal the recipe, or reverse engineer it and make it domestically.  but I think they can finesse the domestic propaganda and just outbid everyone.


If it wasn't for the fact that apparently the mRNA vaccines need highly specialised facilities to make, I would assume the Chinese would have copied them already.

I don't think the care about copyright, and in this case I wouldn't either. If Pfizer and Moderna have maximised production capacity then they can't make any more profit than they are now anyway, so let someone else churn some out. It's for the good of everyone in the end if we get more of the best vaccines produced instead of putting limited resources towards some second-rate rubbish.
 
2021-01-25 9:07:22 PM  
Back in february 2020
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-25 9:08:33 PM  
On a more happy note, Israeli scientist did an initial pass at analyzing the first wave of their Pfizer vaccinated old folks and he's saying it's slightly exceeding the 95% trials calculation with only 20 of 128,000 getting Covid in the 2 weeks after the treatment period.
 
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