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(Business Insider)   We can't help poor people because it would upset rich people's playground   (markets.businessinsider.com) divider line
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1946 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Jan 2021 at 7:30 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2021-01-24 5:29:53 AM  
Rich people are used to having money, poor people not so much. Giving money to people with tons of money just makes more sense. They park their money offshore, where it's safe for them. I hate the non-wealthy. They are very dirty people.
 
2021-01-24 7:38:37 AM  
Whenever a "legendary investor" speaks out, I'm reminded of the one bit of sense Scott Adams ever wrote (it was about advice from the wealthy): "The rich don't want company."
 
2021-01-24 7:42:42 AM  
Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.
 
2021-01-24 7:44:59 AM  
Well I and sure the masses will gladly freeze and starve on the streets so the investor class can have their record investments back.
 
2021-01-24 7:50:02 AM  
I know what to do with billionaires.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 8:29:17 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.


This.

It might create some short term distortions, but that doesn't stop it from doing a ton of good or cause permanent damage.
 
2021-01-24 8:57:55 AM  
FTFA-"If you think you live in a world where output doesn't matter and you can just create paper, sooner or later you're going to do the impossible, and that is bring back inflation," Grantham said. "Interest rates are paper. Credit is paper. Real life is factories and workers and output, and we are not looking at increased output."

The rent seekers are going to seed their own destruction. Work is an obscenity to them.
 
2021-01-24 9:19:07 AM  
Legendary investor Jeremy Grantham

Legendary investor? Really?
 
2021-01-24 9:53:09 AM  
"Interest rates are paper. Credit is paper. Real life is factories and workers and output, and we are not looking at increased output."

from a man who has never had a real life job.
 
2021-01-24 10:03:47 AM  
"Jeremy Grantham told Bloomberg he has "no doubt" a portion of the stimulus will end up in stocks."

Weird how that's never a problem these folks are concerned about when stimulus / tax cuts send money directly to the very wealthy and their corporations rather than into the pockets of regular folks.
 
2021-01-24 10:21:02 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 10:28:52 AM  
So do you need to go through any particular training to be called a "Legendary Investor?" Like, you know, to append your name with MD, you need to graduate from medical school. JD requires graduation from law school, etc. If not, I'd like everyone here to start referring to me as Legendary Investor doremifaq, if you don't mind.
 
2021-01-24 10:43:34 AM  
I don't think that Grantham is necessarily opposed to a stimulus.  He may believe that the problem is that the stimulus needs to be better targeted.  Giving checks to those who don't need it won't help the economy.  If the money does wind up being invested in the stock market it will only inflate current stock prices. However, a simpler stimulus program giving checks to more people is more easily administered and will get more public support so you must weigh the two. It should also be noted that under the current plan the amount of the check does phase out and not everyone will get the full amount and many will not get anything. You could lower the threshold but that could lead to less support for the program.
 
2021-01-24 10:46:57 AM  

doremifaq: So do you need to go through any particular training to be called a "Legendary Investor?" Like, you know, to append your name with MD, you need to graduate from medical school. JD requires graduation from law school, etc. If not, I'd like everyone here to start referring to me as Legendary Investor doremifaq, if you don't mind.


Sorry, mate. You need to have destroyed or taken over the economy of at least one small country to qualify.
 
2021-01-24 11:22:29 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.


No, here are the argument against stimulus:

1) the sectors hurting the most can't be saved with mild stimulus. They can only be saved by people actually utilizing their product...which is hard if they are either closed or have limits imposed on their ability to sell, but not on their ability to incur cost.

2) stimulus will then flow to places that are already doing well. This is essentially like teasing a thirsty person by giving them a drop of water, while giving someone who isn't thirsty a water cooler jug.

3) by injecting large amounts of money into the economy absent a corresponding increase in actual economic output, you create inflation. Inflation hurts poor people the most.

Allow me to expound on inflation.  Who wins in inflation:

1) people who own hard physical assets, such as real estate with land itself appreciating the most.

2) people who own financial assets that attract capital that needs to be reinvested. In an inflationary environment, you are losing money if you aren't making it.

3) people with fixed rate debt. The fixed rate part is important, because floating rate debt will find that interest rates will climb in response to inflation.

Who loses in an inflationary period:

1) people that rent. Real estate has just appreciated, and your rent is simply a function of the annuity value of the real estate. Your rent will go up, or the property will get sold out from under you, which will reduce rental inventory and put upward pressure on rent.

2) people with lots of floating rate debt, such as credit cards

3) people without financial assets.
 
2021-01-24 11:28:43 AM  
i.redd.itView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 11:29:02 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 11:34:43 AM  

gar1013: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

No, here are the argument against stimulus:

1) the sectors hurting the most can't be saved with mild stimulus. They can only be saved by people actually utilizing their product...which is hard if they are either closed or have limits imposed on their ability to sell, but not on their ability to incur cost.

2) stimulus will then flow to places that are already doing well. This is essentially like teasing a thirsty person by giving them a drop of water, while giving someone who isn't thirsty a water cooler jug.

3) by injecting large amounts of money into the economy absent a corresponding increase in actual economic output, you create inflation. Inflation hurts poor people the most.

Allow me to expound on inflation.  Who wins in inflation:

1) people who own hard physical assets, such as real estate with land itself appreciating the most.

2) people who own financial assets that attract capital that needs to be reinvested. In an inflationary environment, you are losing money if you aren't making it.

3) people with fixed rate debt. The fixed rate part is important, because floating rate debt will find that interest rates will climb in response to inflation.

Who loses in an inflationary period:

1) people that rent. Real estate has just appreciated, and your rent is simply a function of the annuity value of the real estate. Your rent will go up, or the property will get sold out from under you, which will reduce rental inventory and put upward pressure on rent.

2) people with lots of floating rate debt, such as credit cards

3) people without financial assets.


Wow, you understand economics just as much as you understand everything else!
 
2021-01-24 12:00:43 PM  

OptimisticCynicism: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

This.

It might create some short term distortions, but that doesn't stop it from doing a ton of good or cause permanent damage.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 12:28:28 PM  

gar1013: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

No, here are the argument against stimulus:

1) the sectors hurting the most can't be saved with mild stimulus. They can only be saved by people actually utilizing their product...which is hard if they are either closed or have limits imposed on their ability to sell, but not on their ability to incur cost.

2) stimulus will then flow to places that are already doing well. This is essentially like teasing a thirsty person by giving them a drop of water, while giving someone who isn't thirsty a water cooler jug.

3) by injecting large amounts of money into the economy absent a corresponding increase in actual economic output, you create inflation. Inflation hurts poor people the most.

Allow me to expound on inflation.  Who wins in inflation:

1) people who own hard physical assets, such as real estate with land itself appreciating the most.

2) people who own financial assets that attract capital that needs to be reinvested. In an inflationary environment, you are losing money if you aren't making it.

3) people with fixed rate debt. The fixed rate part is important, because floating rate debt will find that interest rates will climb in response to inflation.

Who loses in an inflationary period:

1) people that rent. Real estate has just appreciated, and your rent is simply a function of the annuity value of the real estate. Your rent will go up, or the property will get sold out from under you, which will reduce rental inventory and put upward pressure on rent.

2) people with lots of floating rate debt, such as credit cards

3) people without financial assets.


Inflation (in the CPI sense) was much, much higher between 1970 and 1995 than it has been between 1995 and 2020.

In which period did land prices increase the most?  Rents? Asset prices?

Which period saw more improvement for the average person?  The bigger increase in real wages?

Maybe this inflation thing isn't so bad...
 
2021-01-24 12:53:28 PM  

TDWCom29: gar1013: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

No, here are the argument against stimulus:

1) the sectors hurting the most can't be saved with mild stimulus. They can only be saved by people actually utilizing their product...which is hard if they are either closed or have limits imposed on their ability to sell, but not on their ability to incur cost.

2) stimulus will then flow to places that are already doing well. This is essentially like teasing a thirsty person by giving them a drop of water, while giving someone who isn't thirsty a water cooler jug.

3) by injecting large amounts of money into the economy absent a corresponding increase in actual economic output, you create inflation. Inflation hurts poor people the most.

Allow me to expound on inflation.  Who wins in inflation:

1) people who own hard physical assets, such as real estate with land itself appreciating the most.

2) people who own financial assets that attract capital that needs to be reinvested. In an inflationary environment, you are losing money if you aren't making it.

3) people with fixed rate debt. The fixed rate part is important, because floating rate debt will find that interest rates will climb in response to inflation.

Who loses in an inflationary period:

1) people that rent. Real estate has just appreciated, and your rent is simply a function of the annuity value of the real estate. Your rent will go up, or the property will get sold out from under you, which will reduce rental inventory and put upward pressure on rent.

2) people with lots of floating rate debt, such as credit cards

3) people without financial assets.

Wow, you understand economics just as much as you understand everything else!


Tell me what is incorrect. Specifically. Point to sources as well.

Oh wait, you can't because you know jack farking shiat.
 
2021-01-24 12:56:29 PM  

OptionC: gar1013: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

No, here are the argument against stimulus:

1) the sectors hurting the most can't be saved with mild stimulus. They can only be saved by people actually utilizing their product...which is hard if they are either closed or have limits imposed on their ability to sell, but not on their ability to incur cost.

2) stimulus will then flow to places that are already doing well. This is essentially like teasing a thirsty person by giving them a drop of water, while giving someone who isn't thirsty a water cooler jug.

3) by injecting large amounts of money into the economy absent a corresponding increase in actual economic output, you create inflation. Inflation hurts poor people the most.

Allow me to expound on inflation.  Who wins in inflation:

1) people who own hard physical assets, such as real estate with land itself appreciating the most.

2) people who own financial assets that attract capital that needs to be reinvested. In an inflationary environment, you are losing money if you aren't making it.

3) people with fixed rate debt. The fixed rate part is important, because floating rate debt will find that interest rates will climb in response to inflation.

Who loses in an inflationary period:

1) people that rent. Real estate has just appreciated, and your rent is simply a function of the annuity value of the real estate. Your rent will go up, or the property will get sold out from under you, which will reduce rental inventory and put upward pressure on rent.

2) people with lots of floating rate debt, such as credit cards

3) people without financial assets.

Inflation (in the CPI sense) was much, much higher between 1970 and 1995 than it has been between 1995 and 2020.

In which period did land prices increase the most?  Rents? Asset prices?

Which period saw more improvement for the average person?  The bigger increase in real wages?

Maybe this inflation thing isn't so bad...


It's almost as if you don't understand the role that interest rates also play, as well as how the Fed will be approaching monetary policy now versus in prior decades.
 
2021-01-24 1:21:50 PM  
Speaking for my family... we have invested both stimulus checks and would do the same the any new ones as well. Most of my peers would also do the same. We considered 1) sitting on the cash indefinitely 2) paying down some debt just to make numbers look better... or for shiats n giggles.

That said... I'm not against helping segments and people during this time.
Segments: theaters, travel, convention centers, restaurants, etc.
People: laid off or fired due to covid, wages depressed due to covid.

However, it's a two way street. I am SO f'n tired of covid deniers, mask deniers, distancing deniers, and vaccine deniers. So part of me is indifferent also.
 
2021-01-24 1:25:16 PM  

Gordon Bennett: I know what to do with billionaires.

...


If you took the USA billionaire wealth and divided it up per capita... I think the numbers come out at like $2000 or something (been a few months since I did the math). And given that this was accumulated over decades it should be paid out similarly. So... would paying you like $200/year over the next decade solve your financial problems? There, I thought so.
 
2021-01-24 1:47:54 PM  

turbodog99: Gordon Bennett: I know what to do with billionaires.

...

If you took the USA billionaire wealth and divided it up per capita... I think the numbers come out at like $2000 or something (been a few months since I did the math). And given that this was accumulated over decades it should be paid out similarly. So... would paying you like $200/year over the next decade solve your financial problems? There, I thought so.


You don't understand. I didn't post that as a metaphor for what to do with their wealth. I meant to say that we should quite literally cook and eat them.
 
2021-01-24 2:09:08 PM  

gar1013: TDWCom29: gar1013: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

No, here are the argument against stimulus:

1) the sectors hurting the most can't be saved with mild stimulus. They can only be saved by people actually utilizing their product...which is hard if they are either closed or have limits imposed on their ability to sell, but not on their ability to incur cost.

2) stimulus will then flow to places that are already doing well. This is essentially like teasing a thirsty person by giving them a drop of water, while giving someone who isn't thirsty a water cooler jug.

3) by injecting large amounts of money into the economy absent a corresponding increase in actual economic output, you create inflation. Inflation hurts poor people the most.

Allow me to expound on inflation.  Who wins in inflation:

1) people who own hard physical assets, such as real estate with land itself appreciating the most.

2) people who own financial assets that attract capital that needs to be reinvested. In an inflationary environment, you are losing money if you aren't making it.

3) people with fixed rate debt. The fixed rate part is important, because floating rate debt will find that interest rates will climb in response to inflation.

Who loses in an inflationary period:

1) people that rent. Real estate has just appreciated, and your rent is simply a function of the annuity value of the real estate. Your rent will go up, or the property will get sold out from under you, which will reduce rental inventory and put upward pressure on rent.

2) people with lots of floating rate debt, such as credit cards

3) people without financial assets.

Wow, you understand economics just as much as you understand everything else!

Tell me what is incorrect. Specifically. Point to sources as well.

Oh wait, you can't becau ...


Nah, it's cool. People know you and how wrong you always are, so.... no need to take time out of my day to respond to your dumb wall o' text
 
2021-01-24 2:14:27 PM  
"The GMO co-founder told Erik Schatzker that he has "no doubt" some of the stimulus aid will end up in the market. He said the "sad truth" about the last stimulus bill passed in 2020 was that it didn't increase capital spending and didn't increase real production, but it certainly flowed into stocks."

No, the Federal Reserve plowed $3.8 trillion into the markets.  Not in equities, per se, but by depressing the yield on bonds, other investments naturally flowed into securities.  Another round of stimulus may be of dubious value, but the current bubble was primarily created by the Fed.  The feds balance sheet is a $6 trillion distortion in the markets.  Their current solution?  Just leave it (they're actually still adding to it) because trying to unwind it would cause a major crash and bankers wouldn't like that.
 
2021-01-24 3:58:06 PM  

HempHead: OptimisticCynicism: Rapmaster2000: Tesla rose 23% in the week after the last stimulus.  I have no doubt that millions of people will pour their next stimulus into Tesla and Bitcoin via Robinhood.

That's not an argument against stimulus.

This.

It might create some short term distortions, but that doesn't stop it from doing a ton of good or cause permanent damage.

[Fark user image 850x799]


Have you been following the drama too? Some wild shiat's about to go down this week.
 
2021-01-24 5:26:06 PM  

turbodog99: Gordon Bennett: I know what to do with billionaires.

...

If you took the USA billionaire wealth and divided it up per capita... I think the numbers come out at like $2000 or something (been a few months since I did the math). And given that this was accumulated over decades it should be paid out similarly. So... would paying you like $200/year over the next decade solve your financial problems? There, I thought so.


US billionaires have
4,000,000,000,000 in net wealth.
0,000,330,000,000 people are in the country. That's over 10,000 per person. But a better perspective isn't 10k per person compared to their income. It is 10k per person compared to their wealth. That is more wealth than 165,000,000 million Americans. So yes, that 10k would do wonders for them.


Forget billionaires though.

The top 1% of the country has
34,000,000,000,000 in wealth.
00,000,330,000,000 people are in the country.

Split that up and everyone gets 100,000.

Would that solve a lot of financial problems? Yup? There you have it then.

I'm not even advocating for that degree of extreme, but your ridiculous post needs to taken to task for suggesting the wealthy don't control much relative wealth, or enough that redistribution would be meaningful.
 
2021-01-24 5:47:24 PM  
Also, the claim our billionaires built it over decades is extremely misleading.

They gained 25% in the last year or so alone.

Granted that is somewhat skewed as it includes new billionaires, but still, that is incredible relative to the huge losses a solid third of our country felt over the same time.
 
2021-01-24 6:20:49 PM  
So, are we going to force Elon Musk to relinquish his equity holdings to provide money for the financially stricken?  He's often been cited as an example of the recent wealth accumulation of billionaires.

So, what's the actual plan to get his billions from him to those who are financially struggling?
 
2021-01-24 8:26:51 PM  
Give it up gar1013 the majority on fark don't wish to hear that printing more fiat currency and handing it out will be more harmful for them later, it's only the now they live for. The feds have only one tool left, inflation, to get themselves out of harm they've caused, they even admitted it in finance speak when they softened considerably their goals for inflation late last year after decades of a strong line at 2%.

Woe is you who cannot buy real estate, gold, silver etc
 
2021-01-25 8:03:49 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: So, are we going to force Elon Musk to relinquish his equity holdings to provide money for the financially stricken?  He's often been cited as an example of the recent wealth accumulation of billionaires.

So, what's the actual plan to get his billions from him to those who are financially struggling?


Nobody can answer this one.
 
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