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(LA Times)   In order to be convinced, we'd need to see her do The Jackal. You know... for science   (latimes.com) divider line
    More: Silly, White House, The West Wing, President of the United States, Dee Dee Myers, White House Press Secretary, Allison Janney, Joe Biden, member of the White House press corps  
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4953 clicks; posted to Politics » and Entertainment » on 23 Jan 2021 at 10:41 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-23 10:44:26 PM  
Oblig
C.J. Cregg Does The Jackal - West Wing S1E18
Youtube Q7H_L5cYkg8
 
2021-01-23 10:44:55 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

That "The Jackal"?
 
2021-01-23 10:45:25 PM  
Don Francisco was never a fan.

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-23 10:45:32 PM  
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-23 10:46:39 PM  
Family Guy its a Jackal
Youtube VbOPpgrTXh8
 
2021-01-23 10:47:19 PM  
miami.cbslocal.comView Full Size

Can we compare Alison Janney to Jen Psaki instead then?
 
2021-01-23 10:48:48 PM  
Well,clicking on that article certainly went well.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-23 10:53:24 PM  
Writer Mary McNamara sure is being cranky about this. I bet she changes her tune, though, when Jen Psaki gets a woot canow, or is later promoted to chief of staff.
 
2021-01-23 10:56:08 PM  
Nice of that author to white knight for Psaki, who I'm sure doesn't give a single shiat.
 
2021-01-23 11:02:25 PM  
I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.
 
2021-01-23 11:02:32 PM  

BitwiseShift: Well,clicking on that article certainly went well.


Rough copy paste:

Does anyone know if Jen Psaki likes goldfish?
The little orange crackers, I mean, not the aquatic creatures. Because it would be super-embarrassing if some member of the White House press corps showed up at her office one evening bearing a fishbowl and an ingratiating smile when all she wanted was a handful of salty snacks.
You know, like Washington Post reporter Danny Concannon (Timothy Busfield) did in an effort to court White House Press Secretary C.J. Cregg (Allison Janney) in the first season of "The West Wing"?
I ask only because it beats screaming. And if I see one more reference to actual White House Press Secretary Psaki as being a "real-life" Cregg, that is what I will be doing.
I understand that journalists in general, and the White House press corps in particular, have been under a lot of strain during the last four years. Being called the enemy of the people on a near daily basis - particularly when your colleagues are, I don't know, being pepper-sprayed by police while attempting to cover Black Lives Matter protests - can take its toll.
And like millions of Americans, many members of the media (including me) greeted the removal of President Trump and the swearing in of President Biden with a sense of relief so powerful that it could reasonably be characterized as giddiness.

So on Wednesday, when the White House held a press conference that did not involve attempts at "you did not see what you thought you saw" mind control - well, a certain amount of hyperbole in the many reviews of Psaki was understandable. Under normal circumstances, evidence of sanity is not the bar by which a press secretary is judged, but after years of bald-faced lies spouting from the person at that lectern, these are not normal circumstances.

Still the "Psaki is C.J. Cregg!" comments by some of those who tuned in are a bit worrisome.
C.J. Cregg being a fictional character played by one of America's finest actors and Psaki being a flesh-and-blood human, one who previously served as spokeswoman for the Department of State as well as in various senior communications roles in the Obama White House.
Don't get me wrong. I love Allison Janney with a love that is deep and true. C.J. Cregg is one of television's greatest characters, and "The West Wing" remains a terrific television show. It is not surprising that many found comfort binge-watching it over the last four years, particularly during a pandemic exacerbated by a profound lack of presidential leadership.
Like C.J.'s boss, President Josiah Bartlett (Martin Sheen), President Joe Biden is a devout Catholic with Irish roots, progressive politics and a wife who continues to work in her chosen profession. In this moment of general "Aslan has returned to Narnia" relief, when even the snow giving way to sunshine during Biden's inaugural address was seen by some commentators as a sign, "West Wing" comparisons are inevitable.
Psaki's dry humor and direct manner during her first presser were indeed reminiscent of C.J., who was in fact based in part on Dee Dee Myers, press secretary for President Clinton.
But, and I cannot stress this enough, Psaki is an actual person doing an actual job, and C.J. is a product of Aaron Sorkin's imagination. C.J.'s abilities and failings (she absolutely did have an inappropriately flirtatious relationship with Concannon, which absolutely did lead to him having increased access to the president) were conjured to create a highly idealized version of the White House under progressive leadership, while serving the streamlined narrative structure of television.

Was it nice, and surprisingly moving, when Psaki made her debut without showing obvious contempt for the press? Yes, of course it was. Every president in history has complained about and tried to control media coverage, just as every press secretary in history has practiced tactics of evasion and obfuscation - but none have attacked the press, and indeed objective fact, as consistently, bitterly and broadly as President Trump and those who served under him.
It is important to remember, however, that the relationship between the press secretary and the press should be one of tension, not camaraderie. Mutual respect, absolutely, but not camaraderie. Psaki said that the Biden White House was dedicated to transparency and truth-telling, even when that truth is hard to hear, which sounds great. What exactly she means by that remains to be seen.
On Thursday, her second day at the lectern, she was asked many tough questions about issues as varied as Biden's immigration policy and his decision to not wear a mask during certain portions of the inaugural festivities. She answered some, side-stepped others and shut down a few (including two regarding Biden's position on ending the filibuster) because the job of the press secretary is not just to provide information but to help the president shape the news cycle and the narrative of his (or someday her) administration.
Still in many ways, Psaki may be the most fortunate press secretary in history; with the bar set as low as "sanity" and the press corps delighted by the simple fact that she plans to hold daily briefings, she is all but guaranteed early praise. Hence all the C.J. Cregg references.
But just because Psaki isn't telling blatant lies about verifiable facts does not mean she is telling the whole truth or being transparent. She and the administration she speaks for must be held to journalism's most rigorous standards. As President Biden made clear in his inaugural address, this country faces a maelstrom of crises. While no one expects his administration to solve them in a day or even 100 days, it is, as the White House press corps knows too well, every reporter's job to ask the hard questions and the relentless follow-ups, whether the press secretary is witty and professional or not.
Which is precisely why none of the questions at Thursday's press conference involved her preference for goldfish.
 
2021-01-23 11:04:15 PM  

BitwiseShift: Well,clicking on that article certainly went well.


[Fark user image image 850x510]


Well, walking out of a shop with an item I didn't pay for certainly went well.

/Pay up buttercup
 
2021-01-23 11:04:33 PM  
While no one expects his administration to solve them in a day or even 100 days...

Uh, dude, I hate to break it to you but the GOP, the derp brigade, and right wing media are already pissed that Biden hasn't solved all the problems.
 
2021-01-23 11:04:59 PM  
Centrists need to watch another television show.
 
2021-01-23 11:05:10 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Writer Mary McNamara sure is being cranky about this. I bet she changes her tune, though, when Jen Psaki gets a woot canow, or is later promoted to chief of staff.


You were born for this, weren't you?
 
2021-01-23 11:07:32 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Writer Mary McNamara sure is being cranky about this. I bet she changes her tune, though, when Jen Psaki gets a woot canow, or is later promoted to chief of staff.


When is President Biden (or more specifically his deputy chief of staff) going to announce his secret plan to fight inflation?
 
2021-01-23 11:08:39 PM  

Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?


I get the first half, but not the second. It's a tv show, it's entertaining. Did it kill your dog or something?
 
2021-01-23 11:08:48 PM  
You know what would make a better spin on this story/headline? "People are comparing Jen Psaki to The West Wing's C. J. Cregg--but she's so much more than that."

If you're going to scold your audience, do it for a reason that matters--otherwise, you're just going to piss people off and you're going to paint yourself as a pill and a killjoy.
 
2021-01-23 11:11:10 PM  
I'm wacky for drinking sake with Psaki!

/sorry
//really
///yes
 
2021-01-23 11:14:22 PM  

Porous Horace: I'm wacky for drinking sake with Psaki!

/sorry
//really
///yes


George Takei is a fan of Psaki!

/ Yeah, I'm sorry as well
// though I'm sure it's true
 
2021-01-23 11:15:55 PM  

tiiger: BitwiseShift: Well,clicking on that article certainly went well.


Rough copy paste:
Does anyone know if Jen Psaki likes goldfish?
The little orange crackers, I mean, not the aquatic creatures. Because it would be super-embarrassing if some member of the White House press corps showed up at her office one evening bearing a fishbowl and an ingratiating smile when all she wanted was a handful of salty snacks.
You know, like Washington Post reporter Danny Concannon (Timothy Busfield) did in an effort to court White House Press Secretary C.J. Cregg (Allison Janney) in the first season of "The West Wing"?
I ask only because it beats screaming. And if I see one more reference to actual White House Press Secretary Psaki as being a "real-life" Cregg, that is what I will be doing.
I understand that journalists in general, and the White House press corps in particular, have been under a lot of strain during the last four years. Being called the enemy of the people on a near daily basis - particularly when your colleagues are, I don't know, being pepper-sprayed by police while attempting to cover Black Lives Matter protests - can take its toll.
And like millions of Americans, many members of the media (including me) greeted the removal of President Trump and the swearing in of President Biden with a sense of relief so powerful that it could reasonably be characterized as giddiness.

So on Wednesday, when the White House held a press conference that did not involve attempts at "you did not see what you thought you saw" mind control - well, a certain amount of hyperbole in the many reviews of Psaki was understandable. Under normal circumstances, evidence of sanity is not the bar by which a press secretary is judged, but after years of bald-faced lies spouting from the person at that lectern, these are not normal circumstances.

Still the "Psaki is C.J. Cregg!" comments by some of those who tuned in are a bit worrisome.
C.J. Cregg being a fictional character played by one of America's finest actors and Psaki being a flesh-and-blood human, one who previously served as spokeswoman for the Department of State as well as in various senior communications roles in the Obama White House.
Don't get me wrong. I love Allison Janney with a love that is deep and true. C.J. Cregg is one of television's greatest characters, and "The West Wing" remains a terrific television show. It is not surprising that many found comfort binge-watching it over the last four years, particularly during a pandemic exacerbated by a profound lack of presidential leadership.
Like C.J.'s boss, President Josiah Bartlett (Martin Sheen), President Joe Biden is a devout Catholic with Irish roots, progressive politics and a wife who continues to work in her chosen profession. In this moment of general "Aslan has returned to Narnia" relief, when even the snow giving way to sunshine during Biden's inaugural address was seen by some commentators as a sign, "West Wing" comparisons are inevitable.
Psaki's dry humor and direct manner during her first presser were indeed reminiscent of C.J., who was in fact based in part on Dee Dee Myers, press secretary for President Clinton.
But, and I cannot stress this enough, Psaki is an actual person doing an actual job, and C.J. is a product of Aaron Sorkin's imagination. C.J.'s abilities and failings (she absolutely did have an inappropriately flirtatious relationship with Concannon, which absolutely did lead to him having increased access to the president) were conjured to create a highly idealized version of the White House under progressive leadership, while serving the streamlined narrative structure of television.

Was it nice, and surprisingly moving, when Psaki made her debut without showing obvious contempt for the press? Yes, of course it was. Every president in history has complained about and tried to control media coverage, just as every press secretary in history has practiced tactics of evasion and obfuscation - but none have attacked the press, and indeed objective fact, as consistently, bitterly and broadly as President Trump and those who served under him.
It is important to remember, however, that the relationship between the press secretary and the press should be one of tension, not camaraderie. Mutual respect, absolutely, but not camaraderie. Psaki said that the Biden White House was dedicated to transparency and truth-telling, even when that truth is hard to hear, which sounds great. What exactly she means by that remains to be seen.
On Thursday, her second day at the lectern, she was asked many tough questions about issues as varied as Biden's immigration policy and his decision to not wear a mask during certain portions of the inaugural festivities. She answered some, side-stepped others and shut down a few (including two regarding Biden's position on ending the filibuster) because the job of the press secretary is not just to provide information but to help the president shape the news cycle and the narrative of his (or someday her) administration.
Still in many ways, Psaki may be the most fortunate press secretary in history; with the bar set as low as "sanity" and the press corps delighted by the simple fact that she plans to hold daily briefings, she is all but guaranteed early praise. Hence all the C.J. Cregg references.
But just because Psaki isn't telling blatant lies about verifiable facts does not mean she is telling the whole truth or being transparent. She and the administration she speaks for must be held to journalism's most rigorous standards. As President Biden made clear in his inaugural address, this country faces a maelstrom of crises. While no one expects his administration to solve them in a day or even 100 days, it is, as the White House press corps knows too well, every reporter's job to ask the hard questions and the relentless follow-ups, whether the press secretary is witty and professional or not.
Which is precisely why none of the questions at Thursday's press conference involved her preference for goldfish.


I know you think you're helping, but posting that just wastes electrons.
 
2021-01-23 11:24:57 PM  

mcmnky: I know you think you're helping, but posting that just wastes electrons.


Well now everyone can see the stupidity and comment on it, that's why we have the buttons to the right of the headlines after all.  I'm just helping out those whose button on the left of the headline didn't work join the thoughtful and rigorous debate.
 
2021-01-23 11:25:17 PM  
Can we just revel in simple competence for a few minutes you moon-faced assassins of joy?
 
2021-01-23 11:25:17 PM  
I see the people who spent the first 3.5 years of Trump's presidency gobbling his knob as they feel all over themselves to give him air time have suddenly realized that the press should be skeptical of the press secretary. Amazing how that happens.
 
2021-01-23 11:30:28 PM  

Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.


No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for
 
2021-01-23 11:33:25 PM  
I loved TWW but C.J. was, I thought, the worst-written of the characters, in terms of what a WH Press spokesperson does.  Sorkin would give her a ton of exposition to dump for the audience, doing it by telling the news to... newspeople. Who gather that news.   And it's not news that comes out of the White House or even the Government in general, rather, it's like C.J. thinks she's a network anchor.  And she's telling it to reporters, who each work for news organizations that ostensibly know these things already.  And then too, she does a heck of a lot of editorializing in the press room, which, when you're the official mouthpiece of the President, is verboten.
 
2021-01-23 11:49:11 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size

 
2021-01-23 11:54:26 PM  
Looking at her, I keep thinking............

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 12:01:06 AM  

kyleaugustus: [Fark user image image 309x174]
That "The Jackal"?


No...

media-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 12:13:52 AM  

hubiestubert: Can we just revel in simple competence for a few minutes you moon-faced assassins of joy?


"Moon faced assassins of Joy" is the name of my reggae Joy Division tribute band.
 
2021-01-24 12:27:04 AM  

Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 12:29:10 AM  

Summoner101: Oblig
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q7H_L5cY​kg8?start=10]


So does that end with some kind of rich old white politician bukakke off screen?
 
2021-01-24 12:38:52 AM  
I just call her Beth Harmon. She's a nicely dressed redhead who is already 5 steps ahead of everyone else and shuts down Republican propaganda with cold efficiency.
 
2021-01-24 12:39:10 AM  
I'm just hoping this isn't the end of Snekretary!
 
2021-01-24 12:59:56 AM  

SidFishious: Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.

No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for


No. The West Wing is a centrist masturbatory fantasy that fetishizes power for power's sake without acknowledging consequences or actually accomplishing something.

BUT, I will give you that it is just as based in reality as Star Trek: TNG
 
2021-01-24 1:01:05 AM  
Anubis please.
 
2021-01-24 1:14:59 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 1:26:35 AM  
FTA: But just because Psaki isn't telling blatant lies about verifiable facts does not mean she is telling the whole truth or being transparent.

Well that'll piss off the centrists.
 
2021-01-24 1:58:05 AM  
In this moment of general "Aslan has returned to Narnia" relief...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 2:11:05 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Writer Mary McNamara sure is being cranky about this. I bet she changes her tune, though, when Jen Psaki gets a woot canow, or is later promoted to chief of staff.


Wow.

Probably the only time user name checks out...
 
2021-01-24 2:31:01 AM  
[Enters thread]

[Ctrl-f]
giraffe
[Enter]

Phrase not found

Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2021-01-24 2:54:48 AM  

misanthropicsob: SidFishious: Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.

No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for

No. The West Wing is a centrist masturbatory fantasy that fetishizes power for power's sake without acknowledging consequences or actually accomplishing something.

BUT, I will give you that it is just as based in reality as Star Trek: TNG


You do know that it's a TV show, right?
 
2021-01-24 3:13:42 AM  

vrax: misanthropicsob: SidFishious: Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.

No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for

No. The West Wing is a centrist masturbatory fantasy that fetishizes power for power's sake without acknowledging consequences or actually accomplishing something.

BUT, I will give you that it is just as based in reality as Star Trek: TNG

You do know that it's a TV show, right?


I think they know it's a TV show. They just don't know what aspiration means.
 
2021-01-24 3:32:16 AM  

Boudyro: vrax: misanthropicsob: SidFishious: Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.

No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for

No. The West Wing is a centrist masturbatory fantasy that fetishizes power for power's sake without acknowledging consequences or actually accomplishing something.

BUT, I will give you that it is just as based in reality as Star Trek: TNG

You do know that it's a TV show, right?

I think they know it's a TV show. They just don't know what aspiration means.


My point was that it isn't something to aspire to.

It's something to loathe: politics for politics' sake and politics that reduces the impact of the government while increasing the grandeur of politesse. The West Wing is white people feeling good about themselves for caring about stuff without lifting a finger to do anything substantial, and is the embodiment of the toxic belief that "incrementalism is the only way to move forward."
 
2021-01-24 7:24:33 AM  

bughunter: [Enters thread]

[Ctrl-f]
giraffe
[Enter]

Phrase not found

Fark, I am disappoint.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-24 9:54:48 AM  

misanthropicsob: Boudyro: vrax: misanthropicsob: SidFishious: Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.

No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for

No. The West Wing is a centrist masturbatory fantasy that fetishizes power for power's sake without acknowledging consequences or actually accomplishing something.

BUT, I will give you that it is just as based in reality as Star Trek: TNG

You do know that it's a TV show, right?

I think they know it's a TV show. They just don't know what aspiration means.

My point was that it isn't something to aspire to.

It's something to loathe: politics for politics' sake and politics that reduces the impact of the government while increasing the grandeur of politesse. The West Wing is white people feeling good about themselves for caring about stuff without lifting a finger to do anything substantial, and is the embodiment of the toxic belief that "incrementalism is the only way to move forward."


If that's what you pulled from the show I would suggest you reevaluate your perspective.

West Wing, Toby Ziegler & Bar Patron discussion
Youtube cBmZySANzA8

That scene isn't about politics for politics sake it's about why politics matters.

Because amongst all the clever repartee, grand monologues, and what you see as incrementalism is acknowledgement that change, real lasting change for good or for ill, happens by degrees, because it's rare people are ready to change things in the blink of an eye.

Incrementalism isn't the only way forward, but the reality is no matter how vehemently you believe in something, no matter how right you are, there's another person who disagrees. For both of you to live on this planet that has to hashed out to the point you both can live with it.

The regular Joe in that scene is worried about real problems politicians can do something about. But the reality is he is could also think abortion is murder, he may be uncomfortable around gay people, he might think climate change is bunk. Humans are complicated and often believe dumb things.

Great fiction can create the future by giving people a vision of what could be. Only a fool would reject such a gift out of hand. Trek gave us all kinds of interesting ideas and tech to play with. West Wing is more about what calls people to service, what should be in a public servant's heart, and how the writers wish public servants conducted themselves. It's as American as American can be. Because West Wing is about grand ideals being tested in the harsh reality of day to day life in our political system. Just like the America of our ideals is undercut by the reality of our failing to meet them.

It sounds to me more like you're the typical person who hates finding out how sausage is made.
 
2021-01-24 12:16:05 PM  

hubiestubert: Can we just revel in simple competence for a few minutes you moon-faced assassins of joy?


Hey! That's MY line buddy.
 
2021-01-24 12:38:49 PM  

Boudyro: misanthropicsob: Boudyro: vrax: misanthropicsob: SidFishious: Jim_Callahan: I mean... could we just not ever compare anything to the West Wing, ever, and forget the show ever existed?

Like, I'm barely able to acknowledge right-wingers on facebook circle-jerking themselves into complete detachment from reality with elaborate partisan fantasies and conspiracy theories, and right-wingers are people I already accept as irredeemably stupid beyond any hope of redemption.

Having to watch people on my own side of the political spectrum engage in equally invalid echo-chamber shiat that's just as painfully obvious is, like... soul-crushingly awful.  Please, please, just farking stop.

No, because The West Wing and Star Trek: The Next Generation are things we should aspire to, not shy away from or apologize for

No. The West Wing is a centrist masturbatory fantasy that fetishizes power for power's sake without acknowledging consequences or actually accomplishing something.

BUT, I will give you that it is just as based in reality as Star Trek: TNG

You do know that it's a TV show, right?

I think they know it's a TV show. They just don't know what aspiration means.

My point was that it isn't something to aspire to.

It's something to loathe: politics for politics' sake and politics that reduces the impact of the government while increasing the grandeur of politesse. The West Wing is white people feeling good about themselves for caring about stuff without lifting a finger to do anything substantial, and is the embodiment of the toxic belief that "incrementalism is the only way to move forward."

If that's what you pulled from the show I would suggest you reevaluate your perspective.

[YouTube video: West Wing, Toby Ziegler & Bar Patron discussion]
That scene isn't about politics for politics sake it's about why politics matters.

Because amongst all the clever repartee, grand monologues, and what you see as incrementalism is acknowledgement that change, real lasting change for good or for ill, happens by degrees, because it's rare people are ready to change things in the blink of an eye.

Incrementalism isn't the only way forward, but the reality is no matter how vehemently you believe in something, no matter how right you are, there's another person who disagrees. For both of you to live on this planet that has to hashed out to the point you both can live with it.

The regular Joe in that scene is worried about real problems politicians can do something about. But the reality is he is could also think abortion is murder, he may be uncomfortable around gay people, he might think climate change is bunk. Humans are complicated and often believe dumb things.

Great fiction can create the future by giving people a vision of what could be. Only a fool would reject such a gift out of hand. Trek gave us all kinds of interesting ideas and tech to play with. West Wing is more about what calls people to service, what should be in a public servant's heart, and how the writers wish public servants conducted themselves. It's as American as American can be. Because West Wing is about grand ideals being tested in the harsh reality of day to day life in our political system. Just like the America of our ideals is undercut by the reality of our failing to meet them.

It sounds to me more like you're the typical person who hates finding out how sausage is made.


Look at that scene you just sent. That scene is absolutely the most self-aggrandizing emotionally-wrecked scene. The man says "It should be hard. I like that it's hard." Nobody says that about survival. They say that about work, they say that about video games...but not about putting your kid through college. That whole scene is some conservative American wankery. Nobody likes that putting your child through college is dependent on a gamble and that you can't make it through life without gambling your money on stonks. Nobody enjoys knowing that they're a slip and fall away from bankruptcy.

And then he says "but, it should be just a little easier." NOBODY SAYS THAT EASIER. That's a centrist writer masturbating to the idea that all Americans are jerking off over incrementalism. Ohhhh, yeah...if we just gave them...$0.15 more per hour and then they...*splurrrge*

And then the music swells...not for the regular Joe's story but when Toby Ziegler introduces himself as a man from the White House. The emotional climax is that he buys the guy a beer and will do some incremental change to make his life just a little easier but that if they keep giving the guy a challenge, he'll be hap-hap-happy. But, reality is, most people desire a bit of breathing room. Sure, there are some farknuts who turn the difficulty up to 11, but the majority of people want yo enjoy life instead of having to stress from paycheck to paycheck.

That scene is exactly the embodiment of what is wrong with the show. It's political worldview is toxic, it's moralizations are wrong, it is self-congratulatory for doing absolutely nothing beneficial, and the end of it was to sustain a system that didn't actually improve much of anything after 8 years. The show was secretly about a Democratic Administration that failed to substantially improve the life of the American people but was very celebratory about its ability to look good while doing nothing. It's a championing of politesse over action, and that's why The West Wing is not aspirational.
 
2021-01-24 1:12:35 PM  

hubiestubert: Can we just revel in simple competence for a few minutes you moon-faced assassins of joy?


O_o

*Disassembles Jackal-styled rifle back into a walking crutch*

*Puts C.J. Gregg's "The Jackal" on continuous loop on YouTube*
 
2021-01-24 1:41:30 PM  
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