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(Daily Mail)   Churchill bust moved out of Oval Office again. Boris Johnson, who blew his top last time: meh. Daily Mail: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line
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979 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jan 2021 at 12:58 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



47 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2021-01-22 8:26:14 AM  
However some critics worry that removal of Churchill is a snub to the UK, and signals a further dwindling of the so-called 'Special Relationship' after it was started in World War Two by the legendary British Prime Minister.

If your special relationship hinged on this, perhaps it was never special after all.
 
2021-01-22 8:42:16 AM  
All the previous items probably have installed Russian listening devices.
 
2021-01-22 8:55:41 AM  
Mail Online - not even useful as a firelighter.
 
2021-01-22 9:21:08 AM  

Sorelian's Ghost: However some critics worry that removal of Churchill is a snub to the UK, and signals a further dwindling of the so-called 'Special Relationship' after it was started in World War Two by the legendary British Prime Minister.

If your special relationship hinged on this, perhaps it was never special after all.


No shiat.  And do they think Trump knows anything about Churchill besides, "He was played by that guy in Footloose"?
 
2021-01-22 9:41:55 AM  
Ohhh, poor babies
I thought you were a big tough country that didn't need anybody else
 
2021-01-22 10:08:06 AM  
The focus turns to America and Americans. I'm okay with this.
 
2021-01-22 11:34:07 AM  
Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.
 
2021-01-22 11:43:12 AM  
That's not outrage, that's panic. That's "oh shiat if Biden pivots away from the UK after we bailed on Europe, we are well and truly farked."
 
2021-01-22 1:00:19 PM  

TomFooolery: That's not outrage, that's panic. That's "oh shiat if Biden pivots away from the UK after we bailed on Europe, we are well and truly farked."


Joe Biden has publicly stated repeatedly that he's on the side of Ireland.


\ Yeah, they're farked.
 
2021-01-22 1:01:02 PM  
How about a bust of Alan Turing.
 
2021-01-22 1:02:46 PM  
It wouldn't be good to abandon the UK entirely.

Vladimir Putin is waiting for them to go sobbing to him.
 
2021-01-22 1:03:39 PM  
Then tell Prince Charles to get that bust of Charleton Heston out of the palace loo.
 
2021-01-22 1:05:22 PM  
Which US President's bust is on display at 10 Downing St.?
 
2021-01-22 1:05:32 PM  
Not feeling particularly outraged.
 
2021-01-22 1:05:44 PM  

Purple_Urkle: How about a bust of Alan Turing.


Biden wears Alan Turing underwear.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-22 1:06:18 PM  

Pinnacle Point: All the previous items probably have installed Russian listening devices.


Honestly, at this point, it's a wonder Biden feels comfortable using the Resolute Desk at all. It's a wonder Trump had room to sit in the Oval Office without crushing a couple of stray listening devices.
 
2021-01-22 1:07:40 PM  

ABQGOD: Which US President's bust is on display at 10 Downing St.?


Presumably Taft, he was the only one with a substantial enough bust that it could be displayed.
 
2021-01-22 1:08:00 PM  
Yeah, anyone "outraged" by this can FRO and DIAF.

You get no say in how someone else decorates their office.
 
2021-01-22 1:08:24 PM  
The Irish Taoiseach should give Biden a Michael Collins bust to replace it... : D
 
2021-01-22 1:09:39 PM  
Cesar Chavez was more than a bit of a dick.  He was no champion of his race, just a pro union shill.  Let's not give him credit where not due.
 
2021-01-22 1:09:44 PM  

RustyShock: Then tell Prince Charles to get that bust of Charleton Heston out of the palace loo.


That's no way to talk about Charles' mother!
 
2021-01-22 1:10:13 PM  
Maybe if you were still a member of the EU the words coming out of your mouth would mean shiat. As it stands, you're just islanders scrapping for fish bits.
 
2021-01-22 1:11:38 PM  
Ahh, it's The Fail!  I now no longer believe in busts.
 
2021-01-22 1:12:14 PM  
While we maintain a special relationship and are members of the Five Eyes (FVEY), didn't the US have a BREXIT (AXIT?) a number of years ago?
 
2021-01-22 1:13:44 PM  
To our British cousins.

Kindly fark off until you've set your own house in order.
 
2021-01-22 1:17:35 PM  

ABQGOD: Which US President's bust is on display at 10 Downing St.?


Marilyn Monroe, she was JFK's bust for a while.
 
2021-01-22 1:18:03 PM  

phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.


He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.
 
2021-01-22 1:20:14 PM  
"Blew his top" is a nice way of saying "horrible racist bullshiattery"

"Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan President's ancestral dislike of the British empire - of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender," Mr. Johnson wrote
 
2021-01-22 1:21:22 PM  

taoistlumberjak: Ahh, it's The Fail!  I now no longer believe in busts.


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-22 1:22:41 PM  

theflatline: Purple_Urkle: How about a bust of Alan Turing.

Biden wears Alan Turing underwear.

[Fark user image image 300x300]


I spent 4 years contemplating the President's** ass. That's more than enough ass!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-22 1:24:05 PM  
It's a shame that Churchill is the only person of note in British history.  They really should try and do something worthwhile at some point so that they could have someone else worth getting a bust of.
 
2021-01-22 1:25:32 PM  

Pinnacle Point: All the previous items probably have installed Russian listening devices.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-22 1:26:44 PM  
As a brit, meh. It's a piece of art of a man who even in his own time was controversial - and by today's standards was really racist.
 
2021-01-22 1:27:52 PM  

SirEattonHogg: phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.

He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.


Growing up in an Irish household in the States, Churchill was always the "Bastard who unleashed the Black and Tans"...

I mean, by American standards, supporting death squads in smaller nations, who have the audacity to resist colonial rule, is quite conservative... downright Reaganesque, in fact.  : D
 
2021-01-22 1:28:21 PM  

SirEattonHogg: He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.


Churchill was all about securing peace through beating the rest of the world into submission. He wanted to go to war with Russia days after Germany surrendered.

American conservatives love him.
 
2021-01-22 1:31:10 PM  

SirEattonHogg: phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.

He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.


There are plenty of Americans of Indian background who remember how Churchill was totally fine with starving and impoverishing their country and mass conscription to fight Britain's wars. Yeah, he kept the UK free against Nazis. That doesn't excuse all the shootings and violence he authorized to keep the remainder of imperialism's legacy alive. He left office disgraced.
 
2021-01-22 1:33:38 PM  

ABQGOD: Which US President's bust is on display at 10 Downing St.?


Stormy Daniels' bust is regularly displayed on Boris' TV.
 
2021-01-22 1:35:43 PM  

LucklessWonder: ABQGOD: Which US President's bust is on display at 10 Downing St.?

Stormy Daniels' bust is regularly displayed on Boris' TV.


*queues up the Benny Hill theme music*
 
2021-01-22 1:46:46 PM  

turboeli: SirEattonHogg: phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.

He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.

There are plenty of Americans of Indian background who remember how Churchill was totally fine with starving and impoverishing their country and mass conscription to fight Britain's wars. Yeah, he kept the UK free against Nazis. That doesn't excuse all the shootings and violence he authorized to keep the remainder of imperialism's legacy alive. He left office disgraced.


I'm aware of Churchill's connection to imperialism.  However, that has little or no bearing on US politics.  We openly pushed Britain (and other European colonial powers) to decolonize in the post WW2 period. Not that we were on the side of the saints, but it didn't fit in with our policies after WW2 to support old world imperialists keeping their empire.

Other than Churchill's view on empire and FP, I don't think there is much of any connection to our domestic politics, social issues, etc.

If anything, the actual British politician, most Americans would see as an actual conservative with some real connection or parallel to US politics is Thatcher.
 
2021-01-22 1:48:59 PM  

SirEattonHogg: phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.

He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.


The sort of U.S. conservative who pretends to be brainy and literate typically considers Churchill a conservative icon. I'm pretty sure Rush f'ing Limbaugh is in this group, along with all the others who consider themselves "thought leaders".

But, yeah, ol' Cletus and his pals at the diner don't ever give a thought to him.
 
2021-01-22 1:52:53 PM  
Meh. FDR hasn't been in the Oval Office in over 75 years.

d1y822qhq55g6.cloudfront.netView Full Size
 
2021-01-22 1:55:10 PM  

phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.


It's hilarious.

So, I used to be in a chapter of the Winston Churchill Society. Basically because my roomie was, and some of the members thought a Churchill comic book would be a good idea (I was studying writing at the time), not out of any special love for the guy. He's a very interesting figure, though, he saw a whole lot in his life and knew basically every important person in that period. His speeches and his written work are compelling.

The society was very old, very white, and very conservative, but they had some fun events where people came to give talks on various things as long as they kind of tangentially mentioned Churchill in some way. I did a bunch of research on Churchill because the idea was that the "youth committee" of me, roomie, and a 15 year old who contributed nothing would come up with an idea for a graphic novel.

To do that, I had to get a sense of how to fictionalize where necessary, i.e. figure out what he might have said or might have done. The idea shaping up, before my health went to pot and I couldn't attend anymore, was to create a fictional secretary who intersected with a bunch of threads and themes, like dating a Polish pilot, etc. As a secretary, she'd interact with him, but also with things that showed the consequences of his policies--her Polish sweetheart definitely interprets the Western Betrayal as just that, for example. Almost nothing mentions his periodic bouts of suicidal depression, which I thought made a good subject to understand the guy, and very little mentions that he painted to cope with it. My goal was to present him as he was as much as possible, not pass him off as some paragon. It was a fun project while it lasted. Forgotten a lot of the research now.

Churchill's variety of conservative no longer exists. Full stop. His philosophies are long dead, and so are his values.

No way would he get elected as a Tory today, much like Nixon wouldn't make it past primaries, because they'd be decried as socialists. In a number of ways, they're farther left than corpo Democrats.

Conservatives who like to trumpet Churchill and lefties who demonize him both almost uniformly know fark all about the guy. It's not like the information is hard to find, either. But wankers prefer to wank rather than carefully build up the factual basis for arguments.

Churchill hated people like Trump, and the rich jagoffs who never served anyone but themselves. It should tell you something that he got along with FDR like a house on fire, because they were very similar in certain ways. They were privileged gentlemen, they cared about people more in abstract and expressed it through their work, heavily reliant on formidable wives for support, and very charismatic. Churchill was far more affectionate with Clementine than FDR was with Eleanor, though. Also more comfortable with nudity.

That Gary Oldman movie is farking trash on a cracker, by the way. Churchill was a Victorian gentleman, not a man of the people. Very much a product of his context. Lying about that is no favour. Also, he was good friends with Neville Chamberlain, for fark's sake. God. Assholes on that production.

Albert Finney in The Gathering Storm is superior, and it gets a better sense of Churchill's character and context.

/ We also had a lady who was at Bletchley Park
// She caught out a saboteur at a factory
/// She thought I was smarter than the adolescent Tory, I still enjoy that
 
2021-01-22 1:55:21 PM  
The U.K. is like the strict know it all boomer parent who doesnt understand why their gen-Xer (with a slight drug problem and some regretted tattoos) kid (USA) won't come visit Or take any advice.
 
2021-01-22 2:05:22 PM  

ABQGOD: Which US President's bust is on display at 10 Downing St.?


There's a neat JFK memorial at Runnymede. The land it was built on was gifted to the US, too.
 
2021-01-22 2:09:49 PM  
Honestly there's too many busts in the Oval Office already, adding Churchill would make it even more cluttered.
 
2021-01-22 2:16:49 PM  
How fascinating that a gutter rag (if such a thing is possible via the interwebs) like the Mail, owned and edited for decades by right wing nut jobs and fascist lovers, suddenly finds issue with a non-fascist version of democracy here in the US.  The only outrage is from the red-faced lunatics that read this ass-wipe material.
 
2021-01-22 7:16:31 PM  

SirEattonHogg: turboeli: SirEattonHogg: phaseolus: Churchill being a conservative hero, putting a bust of him on display is basically just a symbol of fealty to "conservativism", that's all. It ain't got nothing to do with relationships with the UK as a whole, apart from relationships with a strain of UK politics.

He's a conservative hero to Americans?  I don't think most Americans have a view on Churchill's politics one way or the other.  He's the pudgy guy with a cigar and whisky that shows up in our WW2 movies every so often.

There are plenty of Americans of Indian background who remember how Churchill was totally fine with starving and impoverishing their country and mass conscription to fight Britain's wars. Yeah, he kept the UK free against Nazis. That doesn't excuse all the shootings and violence he authorized to keep the remainder of imperialism's legacy alive. He left office disgraced.

I'm aware of Churchill's connection to imperialism.  However, that has little or no bearing on US politics.  We openly pushed Britain (and other European colonial powers) to decolonize in the post WW2 period. Not that we were on the side of the saints, but it didn't fit in with our policies after WW2 to support old world imperialists keeping their empire.

Other than Churchill's view on empire and FP, I don't think there is much of any connection to our domestic politics, social issues, etc.

If anything, the actual British politician, most Americans would see as an actual conservative with some real connection or parallel to US politics is Thatcher.


Churchill toured the US extensively after WWII giving anti-communism speeches that led directly into McCarthyism.
 
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