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(Laughing Squid)   A beautiful graphic showing the diverging timelines of Star Trek to the left, fanboy arguments about why it's wrong to the right   (laughingsquid.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Star Trek: Enterprise, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek, Star Trek: Voyager, entire Star Trek franchise, Gene Roddenberry, William Shatner, Rick Berman  
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1353 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 19 Jan 2021 at 5:55 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-19 5:31:43 PM  
And why Star Wars is better at the top.
 
2021-01-19 6:00:48 PM  
Every series has its own entirely separate continuity, and should be treated as such without any attempt to reconcile them.  Any given series is basically potentially-unreliable rumors or gossip from the perspective of any other series, especially in cases where characters cross over from one to the other.

And the movies are their own "series" for this purpose.  Two separate series, actually (old Trek and nuTrek).

There, I just solved literally every potential timeline issue for you.  And made ST:Picard slightly less of a tangle of nonsensical gibberish, even, since that Picard is now actually a completely different character than the one in TNG instead of just having a complete brain-ectomy at some point between the two.  You're welcome.
 
2021-01-19 6:13:19 PM  
The one that drives me crazy.
Harry Kim ends up back on earth and finds out his friend took his place on Discovery after a time changing event. Instead of working with Star Fleet to acknowledge and work to bring back Discovery he steals a craft to try and get back in the original timeline aboard discovery and erase this new timeline.
 
2021-01-19 6:21:35 PM  
There's also a good argument to be made that Enterprise forks the timeline thanks to the Temporal Cold War and things Daniels left behind, and Reed used: future tech that cause the new (Enterprise, Discovery) timelines to diverge from the original (TOS+TNG+DS9+VOY) timeline.

Throughout TOS and TNG (mainly) there were various references to X not being invented until Y, where Y is well after Enterprise was set... except in Enterprise we ultimately see most of these things eventually being used. Including photon torpedoes, hand phasers and forcefields.

The graphic is also missing the grandaddy of temporal incursions, the Borg attack on 2063. We know (from when Enterprise revisits the subject) that Zephram Cochrane (and possibly Lilly) later revealed to others in proto-Starfleet the fact of the Borg attack. This is arguably the event that set what would become the Federation headed down a darker/more militaristic pathway.

/now if you want a continuity WTF, ask yourself why the Borg didn't go back in time -before- Picard showed up and ruined their day
 
2021-01-19 6:31:21 PM  
I really like Discovery.  Haven't seen season 3 but currently rewatching season 2.

No, it's not old-Trek but I really like it.  I like the stories.  I like the cast.  It's worth it for Tilly alone.

Watched season 1 of Picard.  Though I enjoyed it enough, it gave me more the impression someone had an idea for a "man vs. robot" movie/series idea, figured they couldn't sell it, so they said "what if we add a few Star Trek words to it?" and Boom!  You have Picard.
 
2021-01-19 7:03:59 PM  
Discovery is not Star Trek's Prime Universe. It's the Star Fleet Battles Universe.

I refuse to accept anything in that shiatty show as canon for Star Trek.
 
2021-01-19 7:12:10 PM  
I wish Vulcan adopted-incest porn had a more mainstream following...for a friend.
 
2021-01-19 7:19:09 PM  
What do the numbers on the mirror universe ships mean?

Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny? I got maybe ten minutes in and didn't really enjoy those ten minutes.
 
2021-01-19 7:20:19 PM  

buntz: I really like Discovery.  Haven't seen season 3 but currently rewatching season 2.

No, it's not old-Trek but I really like it.  I like the stories.  I like the cast.  It's worth it for Tilly alone.

Watched season 1 of Picard.  Though I enjoyed it enough, it gave me more the impression someone had an idea for a "man vs. robot" movie/series idea, figured they couldn't sell it, so they said "what if we add a few Star Trek words to it?" and Boom!  You have Picard.


Discovery Season 3 is total hot garbage.  Unless you like magic, crying and plot driven starship drive systems.
 
2021-01-19 7:22:21 PM  

WilderKWight: Discovery is not Star Trek's Prime Universe. It's the Star Fleet Battles Universe.

I refuse to accept anything in that shiatty show as canon for Star Trek.


Star Trek Battles run by 10 years old hopped up on pixie stix and mountain dew.
 
2021-01-19 7:48:55 PM  

buntz: "man vs. robot" movie/series idea, figured they couldn't sell it, so they said "what if we add a few Star Trek words to it?" and Boom!


It's called "Descender". It's a graphic novel by Jeff Lemire and the robot society plot was lifted almost in its entirety without giving any credit.
 
2021-01-19 7:49:05 PM  

wingnut396: Unless you like magic, crying and plot driven starship drive systems.


So.... season one and two again?
 
2021-01-19 7:50:40 PM  

buntz: wingnut396: Unless you like magic, crying and plot driven starship drive systems.

So.... season one and two again?


Squared with compound interest over 1000 years.
 
2021-01-19 8:12:08 PM  

The_Sponge: And why Star Wars is better at the top.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-19 8:12:35 PM  

wingnut396: crying


For a woman raised on Vulcan who even mentions in one episode "I was raised Vulcan, we don't do humor", she is the most emotional and illogical character in ANY Star Trek show... ever.

BarryJV: It's called "Descender". It's a graphic novel by Jeff Lemire and the robot society plot was lifted almost in its entirety without giving any credit.


I just looked it up.  That's shocking.  Did they do anything about it?  I mean, I don't see where they contest it anywhere.

But really my theory goes to Picard AND Discovery.  People came up with stories but couldn't sell them.  So they said "Let's add Star Trek elements" and then they became shows.

My same theory goes to National Treasure.  Someone wrote it, clearly as an Indiana Jones movie (explorer, his dad, sexy girl, goofy sidekick) but Spielberg/Lucas passed.
So they said "Fine, will add some modern technology to it!" and it became National Treasure.

But be that as it may, I enjoyed Discovery, in spite of the shoehorned in Spock/Vulcan angle.
On second viewing, I like it a lot more.  Really like the characters (I actually LIKE Saru, Tic Notero is great, again, watching Tilly grow is just fun), loved the mirror universe stuff (Michelle Yeoh is a national treasure (no relation to Nic Cage)) and thought Pine was perfect.

I've watched Star Trek from the Original Series on (showing my age) and though I agree it definitely feels more like "Sci-Fi" with Star Trek elements, it's a fun show.  I GET why Star Trek die-hards are upset about it (As a Star Wars nerd, more than Trek, I feel the same about the Prequels) but as just a 'fan' of Star Trek, I enjoy it a lot.

I'm looking forward to season 3 (I'm scared someone will post spoilers just to be a dick at this point).
 
2021-01-19 8:47:02 PM  

buntz: I'm looking forward to season 3 (I'm scared someone will post spoilers just to be a dick at this point).


Darth Vader is Burnham's father, Pike kills Dumbledore, Saru is actually Keyser Soze, and Discovery was the sled.
 
2021-01-19 8:49:20 PM  

palelizard: What do the numbers on the mirror universe ships mean?

Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny? I got maybe ten minutes in and didn't really enjoy those ten minutes.


If you didn't like the first 10 minutes, probably not.

I really liked it, but that includes those 10 minutes. It's chock full of references, in jokes, and general Trekness. I found it funny, and at the end of the season, shockingly deep. I'd call it the best Trek since DS-9. That said, I think Orville also out Treks the last 2 decades of Trek.
 
2021-01-19 8:56:53 PM  
Discovery has been a victim of its own hubris from the beginning. Always trying to do incredibly complex/meaty story arcs with endless franchise callbacks, before it can even prove that it can handle some basic Trek-by-numbers episodes. The writers are no match for the production team's ambition, and it's a pity because some bits of what they've put out do feel like they are worth persisting with.
 
2021-01-19 9:04:40 PM  

Quantumbunny: palelizard: What do the numbers on the mirror universe ships mean?

Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny? I got maybe ten minutes in and didn't really enjoy those ten minutes.

If you didn't like the first 10 minutes, probably not.

I really liked it, but that includes those 10 minutes. It's chock full of references, in jokes, and general Trekness. I found it funny, and at the end of the season, shockingly deep. I'd call it the best Trek since DS-9. That said, I think Orville also out Treks the last 2 decades of Trek.


I did like Orville's first season. I should get back to that.
 
2021-01-19 9:17:18 PM  

palelizard: Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny?


nope
 
2021-01-19 9:52:31 PM  

ReaverZ: palelizard: Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny?

nope


Lower Decks is the Minstrel Show of Star Trek. Some funny things happen, but you kind of feel bad laughing at it because it is a mockery of the real thing (see the zombie outbreak episode).
 
2021-01-19 10:02:26 PM  

Perfectly Normal Beast: Discovery has been a victim of its own hubris from the beginning. Always trying to do incredibly complex/meaty story arcs with endless franchise callbacks, before it can even prove that it can handle some basic Trek-by-numbers episodes. The writers are no match for the production team's ambition, and it's a pity because some bits of what they've put out do feel like they are worth persisting with.


That's one of its main weaknesses (among several) - they never take time on their ideas. It's always a manic race to the next one. They'll drop 15 threads in a season to see how fast they can ignore all of them.

I guess they figure they need more time for Michael and Tilly to cry over a tired emotional score.
 
2021-01-19 10:56:14 PM  

palelizard: What do the numbers on the mirror universe ships mean?

Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny? I got maybe ten minutes in and didn't really enjoy those ten minutes.


I guess it's a personal taste thing. I found it was literally the best Trek I ever saw. The second to last episode is my favourite episode of all time, a true love letter to Star Trek while showcasing character development and a multi episode arc, leading to the season finale.
 
2021-01-19 11:51:32 PM  

madgonad: ReaverZ: palelizard: Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny?

nope

Lower Decks is the Minstrel Show of Star Trek. Some funny things happen, but you kind of feel bad laughing at it because it is a mockery of the real thing (see the zombie outbreak episode).


Meh, it's not as though they made up something completely stupid and crazy, like the crew rapidly devolving over a few days into other species due to a flu inoculation, only to be all better when the credits rolled. I mean, who would ever come up with something like that?

/season seven dove hard...
 
2021-01-20 1:22:47 AM  

palelizard: Quantumbunny: palelizard: What do the numbers on the mirror universe ships mean?

Also, did The Lower Decks ever get funny? I got maybe ten minutes in and didn't really enjoy those ten minutes.

If you didn't like the first 10 minutes, probably not.

I really liked it, but that includes those 10 minutes. It's chock full of references, in jokes, and general Trekness. I found it funny, and at the end of the season, shockingly deep. I'd call it the best Trek since DS-9. That said, I think Orville also out Treks the last 2 decades of Trek.

I did like Orville's first season. I should get back to that.


I hated the orville when I first watched it, didn't even make it through the entire first episode. Went back to it later, and wow was it good. I don't know why but that first episode just rubbed me the wrong way or something, made it seem like it was going to be a shiatty sitcom in space. And while it kept being lighthearted the stories were really good as it progresses.
 
2021-01-20 1:41:15 AM  

WilderKWight: Discovery is not Star Trek's Prime Universe. It's the Star Fleet Battles Universe.

I refuse to accept anything in that shiatty show as canon for Star Trek.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-20 2:38:21 AM  

madgonad: Lower Decks is the Minstrel Show of Star Trek.


Funny enough, everyone who complained about the Big Bang Theory being a minstrel show, likes it a lot and thinks it is brilliant. They also say "It is Star Trek because it is called Star Trek"
 
2021-01-20 2:41:39 AM  

olorin604: I hated the orville when I first watched it, didn't even make it through the entire first episode. Went back to it later, and wow was it good. I don't know why but that first episode just rubbed me the wrong way or something, made it seem like it was going to be a shiatty sitcom in space. And while it kept being lighthearted the stories were really good as it progresses.


because the jokes are Family Guy IN SPACE!!! It wasn't until episode three that it showed it was a sci-fi show with humor instead of a TNG-spoof.
 
2021-01-20 4:33:40 AM  

Madman drummers bummers: Darth Vader is Burnham's father


Do you know what? I believe this one.
 
2021-01-20 5:55:44 AM  
Well those are the three main timelines of the series.

But the graphic FAILS without all the other timelines that were created (and destroyed, or not) within the various shows.

Kirk saves Edith Keeler (the Federation never exists)
Data's head
All the TNG time loops (including a future that is NOT ST:Picard)
Gabriel Bell
Sisko et al w/ Kirk and Tribbles
Quark in Area 51Voyager/Starling in LA 1990"The Year of Hell"and all of ST:E's "Temporal Cold War" (that entire series is one big Temporal Incursion)
 
2021-01-20 6:38:49 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: Well those are the three main timelines of the series.

But the graphic FAILS without all the other timelines that were created (and destroyed, or not) within the various shows.

Kirk saves Edith Keeler (the Federation never exists)
Data's head
All the TNG time loops (including a future that is NOT ST:Picard)
Gabriel Bell
Sisko et al w/ Kirk and Tribbles
Quark in Area 51Voyager/Starling in LA 1990"The Year of Hell"and all of ST:E's "Temporal Cold War" (that entire series is one big Temporal Incursion)


Wait, I forgot about The Billions of Worfs episode. How many timelines was that?
 
2021-01-20 8:02:35 AM  

olorin604: I hated the orville when I first watched it, didn't even make it through the entire first episode. Went back to it later, and wow was it good. I don't know why but that first episode just rubbed me the wrong way or something, made it seem like it was going to be a shiatty sitcom in space. And while it kept being lighthearted the stories were really good as it progresses.


Classic bait and switch.  Episode 1 sucks in the MacFarlane fans by looking like Family Guy in Space, then show that is is really a sci-fi show that happens to have a bit more/cruder humor than Star Whatever.

And yes, The Orville is the best Star Trek series so far this millennium.
 
2021-01-20 9:03:17 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: brainlordmesomorph: Well those are the three main timelines of the series.

But the graphic FAILS without all the other timelines that were created (and destroyed, or not) within the various shows.

Kirk saves Edith Keeler (the Federation never exists)
Data's head
All the TNG time loops (including a future that is NOT ST:Picard)
Gabriel Bell
Sisko et al w/ Kirk and Tribbles
Quark in Area 51Voyager/Starling in LA 1990"The Year of Hell"and all of ST:E's "Temporal Cold War" (that entire series is one big Temporal Incursion)

Wait, I forgot about The Billions of Worfs episode. How many timelines was that?


Close to 300k before they were able to fix it.
 
2021-01-20 10:19:56 AM  
Wouldn't the mirror universe also have a split-off from the temporal incursion from the Romulan explosion?
 
2021-01-20 10:23:21 AM  

Madman drummers bummers: buntz: I'm looking forward to season 3 (I'm scared someone will post spoilers just to be a dick at this point).

Darth Vader is Burnham's father, Pike kills Dumbledore, Saru is actually Keyser Soze, and Discovery was the sled.


Sarek was dead the whole time.
 
2021-01-20 11:44:41 AM  

BafflerMeal: WilderKWight: Discovery is not Star Trek's Prime Universe. It's the Star Fleet Battles Universe.

I refuse to accept anything in that shiatty show as canon for Star Trek.

[Fark user image 425x566]


They own the property. They can make anything canon that they want to. Doesn't mean I have to buy it.
 
2021-01-20 3:37:03 PM  

madgonad: BafflerMeal: WilderKWight: Discovery is not Star Trek's Prime Universe. It's the Star Fleet Battles Universe.

I refuse to accept anything in that shiatty show as canon for Star Trek.

[Fark user image 425x566]

They own the property. They can make anything canon that they want to. Doesn't mean I have to buy it.


This. They can dip their balls in an ink well and drag them across a page and call it a Star Trek script, that doesn't make it so.

/come to think of it, that's basically what they did
//face it, Trek is dead and this is the mold that's growing on the corpse
///third slashie wants to beam up already
 
2021-01-20 4:03:18 PM  
Especially when 'they' is just some random assortment of lawyers and Business Major executives that parcel out projects based on quarterly financial projections.  Those guys are the absolute LAST motherfarkers I allow to tell me what's canon or not.
 
2021-01-20 4:05:30 PM  
Hell, the only difference between those talent-devoid assholes and fan-fiction is a goddamned W-2 form.  You're telling me that's the crucial difference of what makes one show 'actually' connect to another?  SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII​IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT​TTTTTTT.....
 
2021-01-20 4:26:51 PM  

Herr Morgenstern: This. They can dip their balls in an ink well and drag them across a page and call it a Star Trek script, that doesn't make it so.

/come to think of it, that's basically what they did
//face it, Trek is dead and this is the mold that's growing on the corpse
///third slashie wants to beam up already


They are starting to get into the whole 'you can shave a Wookie many times but only skin it once' territory. The brand is starting to stink.
 
2021-01-20 8:02:25 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Every series has its own entirely separate continuity, and should be treated as such without any attempt to reconcile them.


Wrong. All of DS9 and Voyager were unfortunate programming errors that took place entirely in a TNG holodeck over one sh*tty weekend.
 
2021-01-20 9:52:33 PM  

mononymous: I wish Vulcan adopted-incest porn had a more mainstream following...for a friend.


Is that the Star Trek LDS the map was referring to? I remember from ST4 that Spock had too much LDS
 
2021-01-20 9:59:13 PM  
Time travel is a stupid and lazy trope. That is all.
 
2021-01-20 10:00:28 PM  

Perfectly Normal Beast: Discovery has been a victim of its own hubris from the beginning. Always trying to do incredibly complex/meaty story arcs with endless franchise callbacks, before it can even prove that it can handle some basic Trek-by-numbers episodes. The writers are no match for the production team's ambition, and it's a pity because some bits of what they've put out do feel like they are worth persisting with.


I like Discovery except for the unbelievable main character. It's like she's being written by 5 different people.
 
2021-01-20 10:46:06 PM  

RedVentrue: Perfectly Normal Beast: Discovery has been a victim of its own hubris from the beginning. Always trying to do incredibly complex/meaty story arcs with endless franchise callbacks, before it can even prove that it can handle some basic Trek-by-numbers episodes. The writers are no match for the production team's ambition, and it's a pity because some bits of what they've put out do feel like they are worth persisting with.

I like Discovery except for the unbelievable main character. It's like she's being written by 5 different people.


And Tilly. I hate Tilly. Seru had grown on me, eating say more on case people haven't finished the latest season.

You axe Michael and Tilly, they really have a shot at making it work.
 
2021-01-21 1:01:34 AM  

RedVentrue: I like Discovery except for the unbelievable main character. It's like she's being written by 5 different people.


That may be the issue.
 
2021-01-21 1:04:16 AM  

Quantumbunny: And Tilly. I hate Tilly.


They just have not written Tilly right. "She is a cadet genius." instead of an Ensign. Lets make her the first officer, because the clearly is no one else competent on the show.
 
2021-01-21 2:30:16 AM  

Quantumbunny: RedVentrue: Perfectly Normal Beast: Discovery has been a victim of its own hubris from the beginning. Always trying to do incredibly complex/meaty story arcs with endless franchise callbacks, before it can even prove that it can handle some basic Trek-by-numbers episodes. The writers are no match for the production team's ambition, and it's a pity because some bits of what they've put out do feel like they are worth persisting with.

I like Discovery except for the unbelievable main character. It's like she's being written by 5 different people.

And Tilly. I hate Tilly. Seru had grown on me, eating say more on case people haven't finished the latest season.

You axe Michael and Tilly, they really have a shot at making it work.


I don't mind Tilly, but they've put her in an unreasonable position.
 
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