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(Salon)   Deadly Capitol raid would have still happened without Parler -- but not without Facebook   (salon.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Social network, Google, YouTube, United States, User-generated content, Comparison of video services, Web 2.0, right social media platform Parler  
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3823 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 17 Jan 2021 at 12:30 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-17 12:35:24 AM  
I've never been in favor of the death penalty, but Mark Zuckerberg changed my mind
 
2021-01-17 12:37:49 AM  
Always knew FB was a tool of Satan, glad to see other people noticing.

/ and not the cool kind of tool of Satan, like Slayer
// the regular evil kind, like Joel Osteen
 
2021-01-17 12:39:40 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-17 12:41:35 AM  
Facebook was created by a tech douchebro to rate female classmates' attractiveness behind their backs, it's still run by him, and his behavior/responses when its... Shall we politely say... "Missteps" are questioned has been compared (unfavorably) to that of actors playing androids that don't understand humans.

I just can't put my finger on why Farcebook hasn't been a good steward for society though.
 
2021-01-17 12:42:29 AM  
Makes sense. Trump would have never won election in 2016 without Facebook.
 
2021-01-17 12:44:26 AM  
FB is more than glad to keep taking money long after they've undermined the societal contract that gives that money any nominal value.
 
2021-01-17 12:44:32 AM  
As usual, Sheryl Sandberg can go f*ck herself. Her and her idiotic corporatist white feminism need to go away and never be heard from again.
 
2021-01-17 12:45:35 AM  
Maybe the insurrection was why Trump took such a strong stance of section 230, he figured he could fark over all of his social media enemies as they would be sued out of existence once the coup succeeded.

And without any social media we would not be able to communicate.
 
2021-01-17 12:45:52 AM  

erik-k: Facebook was created by a tech douchebro to rate female classmates' attractiveness behind their backs, it's still run by him, and his behavior/responses when its... Shall we politely say... "Missteps" are questioned has been compared (unfavorably) to that of actors playing androids that don't understand humans.

I just can't put my finger on why Farcebook hasn't been a good steward for society though.


Imagine how pissed off the guys who created "HotorNot.com" back in the late 90s must feel today.

/WE WERE THIS CLOSE TO BEING WORTH HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!
 
2021-01-17 12:46:02 AM  
More deflection.  There is only one thing to blame:   Trump.   No one and nothing else.
 
2021-01-17 12:46:42 AM  

wesmon: I've never been in favor of the death penalty, but Mark Zuckerberg changed my mind


I could go for a corporate death penalty. Facebook has certainly earned it.
 
2021-01-17 12:49:48 AM  

Boo_Guy: wesmon: I've never been in favor of the death penalty, but Mark Zuckerberg changed my mind

I could go for a corporate death penalty. Facebook has certainly earned it.


Not much I like about the Chines govt., but executing bankers is up there. Pretty sure Zuck's picture is up in their post offices.
 
2021-01-17 12:49:58 AM  
This is legitimately a both sides are bad problem. I imagine there are a lot of folks who cant understand how people justify continued support for Trump, while justifying their continued use of Facebook.
 
2021-01-17 12:50:30 AM  

austerity101: As usual, Sheryl Sandberg can go f*ck herself. Her and her idiotic corporatist white feminism need to go away and never be heard from again.


Who?
 
2021-01-17 12:50:53 AM  
Oh Lordy ...

I don't think you guys fully grasp the amount of user interactions a site like Facebook creates. How do you even begin to moderate a platform that generates millions of posts per second?

AI only works so well. I got kicked for 72 hours for posting an ISIS flag in discussion - ABOUT ISIS.

In other words, people are the issue, not so much the platform.
 
2021-01-17 12:51:00 AM  
 
2021-01-17 12:53:59 AM  

wesmon: I've never been in favor of the death penalty, but Mark Zuckerberg changed my mind


This came up the other day with a friend who actually studied capital punishment (and justice/penal systems in general)--the best way to deter crime is not to punish it severely, but consistently--that's the real threat. Sure, the punishment needs to be severe enough itself to dissuade criminals in the sense that the risk of injury of punishment outweighs the potential gain of the crime, but if it's always or nearly always imposed (which necessitates adequately aggressive pursuit of litigation), it doesn't need to be as severe as you think.

Would Zuckerberg have done this if he could face 10 years in prison? Probably, yes. Would he have done it if it were nearly certain that he absolutely would serve 10 years in prison and none of his money and fancy lawyers could save him? Now it's not so certain.

This is a difficult mindset, though, because Americans are used to laws being extremely inconsistently applied, so they have trouble conceiving of a system that doesn't do so.
 
2021-01-17 12:56:34 AM  

BlousyBrown: austerity101: As usual, Sheryl Sandberg can go f*ck herself. Her and her idiotic corporatist white feminism need to go away and never be heard from again.

Who?


Facebook's COO. She's mentioned in TFA.

She wrote a dreadful "feminist" book called Lean In whose main conceit was basically "act like men if you want to get ahead in business, which is, uh, not really where feminism is going these days. It's a very specific feminism of well-to-do white women, and it's one of the reasons that Third Wave feminism became a thing in the 90s.
 
2021-01-17 12:57:56 AM  

notmyjab: Mitch McConnell's Brother-in-Law One of the Masterminds of Trump-Russia : RussiaLago

Saw this posted in another thread.


How would you say "the swamp" in Russian?  'Cause there a shiat-ton of familiar names in that breakdown.
 
2021-01-17 12:58:06 AM  

Mister Buttons: erik-k: Facebook was created by a tech douchebro to rate female classmates' attractiveness behind their backs, it's still run by him, and his behavior/responses when its... Shall we politely say... "Missteps" are questioned has been compared (unfavorably) to that of actors playing androids that don't understand humans.

I just can't put my finger on why Farcebook hasn't been a good steward for society though.

Imagine how pissed off the guys who created "HotorNot.com" back in the late 90s must feel today.

/WE WERE THIS CLOSE TO BEING WORTH HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!


I'd love to see the universe where hotornot.com becomes the website all of our moms end up using to share recipes and 5G conspiracy theories.

"I love the baked ziti Ms. Smith, but not a fan of the antivax tirade. I'm downgrading you from an 8 to a 7."
 
2021-01-17 1:05:07 AM  

Algebrat: Mister Buttons: erik-k: Facebook was created by a tech douchebro to rate female classmates' attractiveness behind their backs, it's still run by him, and his behavior/responses when its... Shall we politely say... "Missteps" are questioned has been compared (unfavorably) to that of actors playing androids that don't understand humans.

I just can't put my finger on why Farcebook hasn't been a good steward for society though.

Imagine how pissed off the guys who created "HotorNot.com" back in the late 90s must feel today.

/WE WERE THIS CLOSE TO BEING WORTH HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

I'd love to see the universe where hotornot.com becomes the website all of our moms end up using to share recipes and 5G conspiracy theories.

"I love the baked ziti Ms. Smith, but not a fan of the antivax tirade. I'm downgrading you from an 8 to a 7."


Twitter could be called botornot.
 
2021-01-17 1:10:38 AM  
Just think of all of the upper tankers that have been inspired by fark.com.
 
2021-01-17 1:14:53 AM  
This article didn't have any real content, other than a few quotes from "experts" that nobody has the time to look up.

There would have still been a Trump rally without Parler, and maybe without Facebook there wouldn't have been enough present willing to get swept up in the mob mentality, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the last steps in the radicalization of the mob happened on Facebook.  For the most part, it seems that FB was used to send out a calendar invite, and the real incitement and violent talk happened on other unmoderated platforms.
 
2021-01-17 1:15:24 AM  

Stud Gerbil: More deflection.  There is only one thing to blame:   Trump.   No one and nothing else.


Trump is the root cause but his adherents are also guilty of his crimes.
 
2021-01-17 1:18:02 AM  

Karma Chameleon: This is legitimately a both sides are bad problem. I imagine there are a lot of folks who cant understand how people justify continued support for Trump, while justifying their continued use of Facebook.


I don't really see that though. Basically, right wing assholes and old people use Facebook in this country.

I did spend some time in Latin America and I know they still use Facebook there, but I'll give them a pass because they're behind
 
2021-01-17 1:19:01 AM  

Jz4p: This article didn't have any real content, other than a few quotes from "experts" that nobody has the time to look up.

There would have still been a Trump rally without Parler, and maybe without Facebook there wouldn't have been enough present willing to get swept up in the mob mentality, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the last steps in the radicalization of the mob happened on Facebook.  For the most part, it seems that FB was used to send out a calendar invite, and the real incitement and violent talk happened on other unmoderated platforms.


The article actually explicitly says this.  Parler was used by the attackers to coordinate during the attack.  Without it they probably would have used another platform, so it's not accurate to say that without Parler the attack wouldn't have happened, but Parler was a (the?) core communications platform used during the attack.
 
2021-01-17 1:19:59 AM  
Shut Facebook down.  Problem solved.

Seriously.  If Facebook is the problem, and it is.  Shut it down.  The megacorps made the argument that in order to keep us safe, we need to shut down the platforms that facilitate Nazis.  Facebook facilitated the attempted coup, so they should be shut down.
 
2021-01-17 1:28:27 AM  

recombobulator: Jz4p: This article didn't have any real content, other than a few quotes from "experts" that nobody has the time to look up.

There would have still been a Trump rally without Parler, and maybe without Facebook there wouldn't have been enough present willing to get swept up in the mob mentality, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the last steps in the radicalization of the mob happened on Facebook.  For the most part, it seems that FB was used to send out a calendar invite, and the real incitement and violent talk happened on other unmoderated platforms.

The article actually explicitly says this.  Parler was used by the attackers to coordinate during the attack.  Without it they probably would have used another platform, so it's not accurate to say that without Parler the attack wouldn't have happened, but Parler was a (the?) core communications platform used during the attack.


The article is not quite so nuanced as that.  It's dozens of paragraphs signaling to the reader that Facebook is every bit as bad as any other platform out there in the mix, completely ignoring that it had rather substantial content moderation policies against violence. It felt like they were dropping anvils, "Facebook bad" over and over.
 
2021-01-17 1:31:29 AM  
If there are too many interactions and posts on Facebook to moderate, even with AI, we need to make laws stating that social media sites can only grow to the size the are capable of moderating by human or AI.  If site gets too big, it has to purge members.

Stating the reason that Facebook can't moderate is because it is too big isn't a good reason for it to just keep going and getting bigger.  It is an argument that it should get smaller.
 
2021-01-17 1:37:32 AM  

Jz4p: This article didn't have any real content, other than a few quotes from "experts" that nobody has the time to look up.

There would have still been a Trump rally without Parler, and maybe without Facebook there wouldn't have been enough present willing to get swept up in the mob mentality, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the last steps in the radicalization of the mob happened on Facebook.  For the most part, it seems that FB was used to send out a calendar invite, and the real incitement and violent talk happened on other unmoderated platforms.


I'll add that Facebook has definitely contributed to further radicalization over the last few years, especially in some of its private groups and communities. And they barely monitored those communities until fairly recently--you could do basically whatever you wanted. You could find porn easily, so who knows what other stuff was going on back there.
 
2021-01-17 1:39:44 AM  

Wanderlusting: Oh Lordy ...

I don't think you guys fully grasp the amount of user interactions a site like Facebook creates. How do you even begin to moderate a platform that generates millions of posts per second?

AI only works so well. I got kicked for 72 hours for posting an ISIS flag in discussion - ABOUT ISIS.

In other words, people are the issue, not so much the platform.


Um, I think you just answered your own question.
 
2021-01-17 1:45:55 AM  
The world was a much nicer place to live before social media.  It has only led to divisiveness.  Believe it or not it was once OK to be friends with someone in an opposing party.  Now your livelihood must be destroyed if you do not think the correct social media way.  And who decides the correct way to think?  Big Tech does because 20ish people on the west coast are the ultimate judge of how to think.

Only a few months ago both major American parties believed that Big Tech had way too much power (albeit for different reasons).  Now that it is working for one party over the other everything is alright.  That is precisely why politicians are despised.  They are not interested in doing what is right and only interested in doing what in the short term benefits them.
 
2021-01-17 1:46:56 AM  
The Amnesia Is Strong In This Thread


Zuckerberg is married to a woman of Chinese ancestry and asked Xi Xinping to name their newborn at a dinner; Zuckerberg was desperate to have the Chinese market available to FB's growth.

Tunisia, Egypt, and other Arab nations, claimed Twitter and FaceBook as principally responsible for the Arab Spring and sought means to "firewall" their nations.

And what percentage of Farkers in this thread commented (way back when) such coordination was a consequence of liberty and free speech? Is that basis wholly true?

Free Speech as been Zuckerberg's canard for competing against Google for advertising dollars since Day 0. He's an exploit through and through.
 
2021-01-17 1:49:00 AM  
Of course, but nobody of importance will attack @jack and priscilla's hubby or ask for their imprisonment.
 
2021-01-17 1:52:26 AM  

buravirgil: The Amnesia Is Strong In This Thread

Zuckerberg is married to a woman of Chinese ancestry and asked Xi Xinping to name their newborn at a dinner; Zuckerberg was desperate to have the Chinese market available to FB's growth.

Tunisia, Egypt, and other Arab nations, claimed Twitter and FaceBook as principally responsible for the Arab Spring and sought means to "firewall" their nations.

And what percentage of Farkers in this thread commented (way back when) such coordination was a consequence of liberty and free speech? Is that basis wholly true?

Free Speech as been Zuckerberg's canard for competing against Google for advertising dollars since Day 0. He's an exploit through and through.


He's a capitalist first and foremost. This is why the most capitalist society in the world - that of USA - gives him such a high valuation.
 
2021-01-17 2:04:08 AM  

Wanderlusting: Oh Lordy ...

I don't think you guys fully grasp the amount of user interactions a site like Facebook creates. How do you even begin to moderate a platform that generates millions of posts per second?

AI only works so well. I got kicked for 72 hours for posting an ISIS flag in discussion - ABOUT ISIS.

In other words, people are the issue, not so much the platform.


It was recently possible to market to people moderately interested in religion, the 2nd amendment, a brand of patriotism, and sell them soft fascism, followed by the hard stuff. It was, and may still be a cheap buy. I'm not sure why two awful people (Zuckerberg and Sandberg) leading that business who are atleast culturally Jewish would be okay with that? So, they're just likely awful people. Add to that hiring a PR firm that sought to label many facebook critics as "agents of Souros," and you can move from likely to obviously.

Moderate user content? How about not allowing your business to be a marketing platform for Nazis, general fascists, would-be genocide lovers, and the like?
 
2021-01-17 2:05:16 AM  
This whole shiatshow where "engagement" is all the companies running the internet care about needs to end. Caring only about "engagement" means rewarding liars and propagandists, and making it harder for decent people to be heard. Especially when the dickhead techbros that run the companies (Facebook and Twitter come to mind specifically) explicitly have their algorithms designed to boost right-wingers at the expense of actual reality.
 
2021-01-17 2:10:24 AM  

Stud Gerbil: More deflection.  There is only one thing to blame:   Trump.   No one and nothing else.


No, the only thing to blame are Americans. Blindly partisan, angry, stupid, racist, sexist, xenophobic Americans. Trump didn't create them. Facebook didn't empower them. They've been around since America became a country, and they've been in power that entire time. Stop blaming everyone except the people that deserve blame - the ignorant, useless pieces of shiat that are our fellow countrymen.
 
2021-01-17 2:12:53 AM  
interesting how this unfolded.. back in 2018 Zuckerberg was summoned to answer questions from Congress as to why Facebook was "censoring" conservatives.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com​/​5236280/diamond-and-silk-facebook-mark​-zuckerberg/%3famp=true
 
2021-01-17 2:13:30 AM  
mybluemake: I'm not sure why two awful people (Zuckerberg and Sandberg) leading that business who are atleast culturally Jewish would be okay with that? So, they're just likely awful people.

https://deadline.com/2019/12/facebook​-​ceo-mark-zuckerberg-political-ad-polic​y-cbs-this-morning-gayle-king-12027981​76/


FTA linked:

Zuckerberg has repeatedly refused to hold Facebook political ads to a standard of truth, despite 200 of his own employees urging him to reconsider the policy, noting "free speech and paid speech are not the same."

"Well, this is clearly a very complex issue," Zuckerberg said (watch the video above), "and a lot of people have a lot of different opinions. At the end of the day, I just think that in a democracy, people should be able to see for themselves what politicians are saying."

At another point in the interview, Zuckerberg reiterated his opinion that Facebook shouldn't be in the business of fact-checking ads.

"What I believe is that in a democracy, it's really important that people can see for themselves what politicians are saying, so they can make their own judgments," he said. "And, you know, I don't think that a private company should be censoring politicians or news."

Dorsey stopped hosting political ad "speech" in late 2019.
 
2021-01-17 2:17:08 AM  
FB said they would review and possibly change their practices if there was violence and interest after the election.

Can we get those changes now?

/What's bad for the social fabric of our world is good for user engagement.
 
2021-01-17 2:17:49 AM  

mybluemake: Wanderlusting: Oh Lordy ...

I don't think you guys fully grasp the amount of user interactions a site like Facebook creates. How do you even begin to moderate a platform that generates millions of posts per second?

AI only works so well. I got kicked for 72 hours for posting an ISIS flag in discussion - ABOUT ISIS.

In other words, people are the issue, not so much the platform.

It was recently possible to market to people moderately interested in religion, the 2nd amendment, a brand of patriotism, and sell them soft fascism, followed by the hard stuff.


It's not just guns, God and 'murica, either. The new targets of the Nazi recruitment machine are gamers and the like, especially younger ones.

It's easy to get teens pissed off, especially if you've gotten them to make 'gamer' their identity. Social media and its algorithms have made it easier than ever before to manipulate people, and pissed off teens are especially vulnerable to such. And you have whole stinking cesspools like 4chan where people are groomed to think bigotry and general assholery are funny...and then it stops being a joke.
 
2021-01-17 2:19:58 AM  

LordJiro: This whole shiatshow where "engagement" is all the companies running the internet care about needs to end. Caring only about "engagement" means rewarding liars and propagandists, and making it harder for decent people to be heard. Especially when the dickhead techbros that run the companies (Facebook and Twitter come to mind specifically) explicitly have their algorithms designed to boost right-wingers at the expense of actual reality.

Decent people?

What's your metric? Would one metric be distinguishing the policies of FaceBook from Twitter? Because you haven't done that. They're the same to you.

Is that decent of you?

Understanding the differences between FaceBook (a social network with little to no definition and very much preaching the "gospel" of engagment) and Twitter (a messaging platform designed for slogans from sellers and testimony from buyers) and what an algorithm does?

Instead of conflating them? Is that decent of you?
 
2021-01-17 2:27:27 AM  
A. Facebook is the devil
B. Facebook didn't cause this mess, but it helped
 
2021-01-17 2:32:13 AM  

austerity101: BlousyBrown: austerity101: As usual, Sheryl Sandberg can go f*ck herself. Her and her idiotic corporatist white feminism need to go away and never be heard from again.

Who?

Facebook's COO. She's mentioned in TFA.

She wrote a dreadful "feminist" book called Lean In whose main conceit was basically "act like men if you want to get ahead in business, which is, uh, not really where feminism is going these days. It's a very specific feminism of well-to-do white women, and it's one of the reasons that Third Wave feminism became a thing in the 90s.


Is that the book that says, "If you have to work 3 times as hard as a man to get the same respect, you should work 5 times as hard, and tell your husband he's just going to have to spring for extra maids, chefs, and nannies so you don't have to worry about cleaning and cooking?"
 
2021-01-17 2:35:09 AM  
Even as a Facebook user myself, I can't argue that it is hypocritical to hold Parler accountable but not FB. I have been so frustrated this last year with how many posts I've reported, only to be told that nothing happened, and that I should just consider blocking the offender.

I like having it there, because its a useful platform for me to follow groups of professionals in the same field I'd like to join after grad school.

If FB gets cancelled, I'll be bummed for about an hour.
 
2021-01-17 2:36:51 AM  

Karma Chameleon: This is legitimately a both sides are bad problem. I imagine there are a lot of folks who cant understand how people justify continued support for Trump, while justifying their continued use of Facebook.


So yeah you're just ignoring the fact that Facebook's exactly what you make it .?????
you only  get drawn into political things because you're following political things.
Sure we're are only able to do this so that Facebook has  plausible deniability; but it really can be altered to avoid confrontation.
 
2021-01-17 2:39:48 AM  

Brat E. Pants: I can't argue that it is hypocritical to hold Parler accountable but not FB.


Sigh.  Logic should be a required class in high school.

You can't argue that it is, so you're not arguing that it is, so you're not taking the position that it's hypocritical, so you're OK with Parler being held accountable but not Facebook.  Is that what you meant?  That's what you typed.
 
2021-01-17 2:39:49 AM  
Congress needs to pass a law that holds platforms responsible for when they fail to enforce their "terms of service" against people participating in hate groups, terrorism, and insurrectionist plots. Every single time platforms fail to act, they should be fined $500,000 dollars. For every violator of terms. For every single share or retweet. They'd either get their shiat together in a week or the gov't would end up owning most social media platforms.
 
2021-01-17 2:41:32 AM  

Stud Gerbil: More deflection.  There is only one thing to blame:   Trump.   No one and nothing else.


Correct Trump is primarily to blame but his enablers are also to blame for letting him.
Interestingly enough Telegram informed me tthat they had suddenly had a huge surge in users, just after Parler shutdown. Coincidentally.....
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