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(Polygon)   EVE Online becomes a Warhammer 40K game showing how space hulks form in the warp, as 35,000 players log in for a battle and over 300 battleships get stuck together in the 18-year-old code   (polygon.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, CCP Games, Battle, Eve Online, Need to know, Massively multiplayer online game, Dust 514, Battle of M2, game map  
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1530 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 16 Jan 2021 at 8:55 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-01-16 4:14:34 PM  
Seems they have one OS thread per system and when a thread is overloaded some transfers of information (ships) between threads (systems) are not atomic like they are supposed to be.
 
2021-01-16 4:31:27 PM  
EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job
 
2021-01-16 5:48:40 PM  

Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job


EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with the same problem as every other goddamn game of this type, because you cannot frame every person as the central protagonist, and in which you play forty hours a week so that you can have less power and agency than someone who goes to a real-world job forty hours a week.

Nobody at the bottom is playing the "real game", because nobody with an actual spine plays videogames to be a bit player in someone else's story, and the "real game" is stupid, anyway, because you're relying on huge nets of players to act out your wishes in a boring and disconnected manner to begin with.

And that works for one kind of person, the sociopath types who derive all their imagined agency from controlling and dominating others.  Fortunate for all of us that Eve Online will continue to serve this purpose and act as the honeypot that prevents them from doing more harmful things, like arguing they are exempt from child support because they are a sovereign citizen.

Anyway, I think what I'm trying to say here is that I should start updating my blog again.
 
2021-01-16 5:54:37 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with the same probl ...


I've been here too long because that was 90% accurate and 10% snark
 
2021-01-16 6:23:02 PM  

GardenWeasel: I've been here too long because that was 90% accurate and 10% snark


I have been trying to tell Fark for years that everything I say is the truth, even the lies, they say they do not believe me, but I think they may be lying.  It's hard to say.
 
2021-01-16 9:24:02 PM  
Yes, I recognize a few words in that headline.  Of course.
 
2021-01-16 9:34:05 PM  

Mike_LowELL: because nobody with an actual spine plays videogames to be a bit player in someone else's story

Fark user imageView Full Size

 
2021-01-16 9:36:32 PM  
Someone sounds salty. The scamming and being scammed is half the fun. The first Atlas gate I did was wonderful. The times I lost all my money because I was an idiot was less than wonderful but to quote a great philosopher: they bought their tickets, they knew what they were in for.
 
2021-01-16 9:44:09 PM  

Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job


It's a game for people who always wanted to be an astronaut, think space is cool... and have some actual concept of what an astronaut actually does and how space travel actually works.

The fun of the game is in flying around in space, exploring, and maintaining stable infrastructure across prohibitively vast distances.  Or throwing a wrench into the precarious gears required to keep that kind of infrastructure stable, because Apollo 13 is an important part of what makes space exciting and cool, too.

It's really not that much more complicated than that.  Sure, it's niche, but it's essentially a game catering to actual geeks, as in the people who go into technical fields because they're passionate about the reality of science and technology rather than the people who just fake that attitude as a vague affectation.  That's inherently a fairly narrow audience, but there's nothing wrong with catering to a narrow audience.
 
2021-01-16 10:44:03 PM  
I mean to each their own in play time of course.
But for my money i want to play at one of the little people in the ship. Not as the kid pushing the ship around making whoosh sounds, imaging people inside the ship.
 
2021-01-16 10:48:57 PM  
The future of the war hinges on CCP being able to guarantee a reliable playing field and the conditions to fight

Yeah,,, good luck with that, pal.  What you're suggesting would be the death of Goonswarm, and Pétursson has Mitten's tiny, syphilitic little weiner wedged too tightly between his front teeth to ever let that happen.
 
2021-01-16 11:00:26 PM  
Meanwhile, I'm logging hours in Elite: Dangerous, because space trucking with lasers
 
2021-01-16 11:07:20 PM  
I never got into this, though I like space stuff.  I saw some gameplay and all it looked like was filing out spreadsheets. I can go to the office and et paid to do that.
 
2021-01-17 12:29:43 AM  
Not my kinda game. I do however really enjoy the stories that have come out of it over the years.
 
2021-01-17 2:37:32 AM  
This kinda shiat makes me glad I still play Nethack and Angband.

I'd play Dwarf Fortress, too, but I'm not a masochist.
 
2021-01-17 5:21:52 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Am I being dickish, I feel like am being dickish
 
2021-01-17 6:14:43 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with the same problem as every other goddamn game of this type, because you cannot frame every person as the central protagonist, and in which you play forty hours a week so that you can have less power and agency than someone who goes to a real-world job forty hours a week.

Nobody at the bottom is playing the "real game", because nobody with an actual spine plays videogames to be a bit player in someone else's story, and the "real game" is stupid, anyway, because you're relying on huge nets of players to act out your wishes in a boring and disconnected manner to begin with.

And that works for one kind of person, the sociopath types who derive all their imagined agency from controlling and dominating others.  Fortunate for all of us that Eve Online will continue to serve this purpose and act as the honeypot that prevents them from doing more harmful things, like arguing they are exempt from child support because they are a sovereign citizen.

Anyway, I think what I'm trying to say here is that I should start updating my blog again.


I think what you're saying is that we should introduce Trump & Co, as well as QAnon believers to MMO games and let them set up their "guilds" and trap them in imaginary fights there.
 
2021-01-17 9:29:57 AM  

ReaverZ: [Fark user image 320x233]
Am I being dickish, I feel like am being dickish


This.
Are we assholes for thinking this is funny?
 
2021-01-17 9:37:56 AM  

the voice of raisin: Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with t ...


Interesting that you say that, because propaganda and morale is a huge part of these giant nullsec battles.  It takes something to get a few thousand followers online for hours at a time at the right time.

At some point, you really can become part of a "movement" in EVE, unlike scripted world events in other games where stuff just happens because of the devs.  When that happens, it's an amazing feeling, like how a war should feel, instead of just matches or a ladder ranking.
 
2021-01-17 9:42:12 AM  

the voice of raisin: Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with the same problem as every other goddamn game of this type, because you cannot frame every person as the central protagonist, and in which you play forty hours a week so that you can have less power and agency than someone who goes to a real-world job forty hours a week.

Nobody at the bottom is playing the "real game", because nobody with an actual spine plays videogames to be a bit player in someone else's story, and the "real game" is stupid, anyway, because you're relying on huge nets of players to act out your wishes in a boring and disconnected manner to begin with.

And that works for one kind of person, the sociopath types who derive all their imagined agency from controlling and dominating others.  Fortunate for all of us that Eve Online will continue to serve this purpose and act as the honeypot that prevents them from doing more harmful things, like arguing they are exempt from child support because they are a sovereign citizen.

Anyway, I think what I'm trying to say here is that I should start updating my blog again.

I think what you're saying is that we should introduce Trump & Co, as well as QAnon believers to MMO games and let them set up their "guilds" and trap them in imaginary fights there.


That would work but sadly they can barely manage passwords for their user accounts. Could you imagine the hilarity of them trying to play an MMO?


Wait...
 
2021-01-17 12:16:27 PM  
Mittani? EVE online? Wth is it 20 years ago again?  These people are going to spend their entire life in a game universe aren't they?  At least their delusional fictional reality doesn't fark up the world for the rest of us, but it does seem rather sad.
 
2021-01-17 12:43:24 PM  
Everything I need to know about this subject I got from historic naval videos on YouTube.

Emperor class - Guide 40,000
Youtube iC1o_9sGqkA
 
DVD
2021-01-17 12:51:58 PM  
EVE Online and CCP are now managed by Pearl Abyss, who also owns Black Desert Online.

Examine Black Desert to see the future, while you still have Gallente or Caldari eyes to see it with.
 
2021-01-17 12:53:44 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with the same probl ...


tl;dr STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
 
2021-01-17 3:56:36 PM  
Damn, that sucks for those players who play a game developed by people who can't even master multi-threading, apparently.

/yes I know using multiple threads is a challenge
//but surely a professional with 18 years to do it could have gotten somewhere by now
 
2021-01-17 7:12:31 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Damn, that sucks for those players who play a game developed by people who can't even master multi-threading, apparently.

/yes I know using multiple threads is a challenge
//but surely a professional with 18 years to do it could have gotten somewhere by now


the core game engine is 12 years old.  the entire thing needs to be scrapped and rewritten for modern hardware/OS builds.
but the parent company is dead and the product was sold off to a new owner thats just skimming revenues now so thats not going to happen.
 
2021-01-17 7:13:57 PM  
...split the massive enemy fleet in half. The larger half ...

half?
 
2021-01-17 9:03:37 PM  
Mike_LowELL:

Based and redpilled

Fark user imageView Full Size


/listen up, Veronica
 
2021-01-17 10:16:53 PM  
The single most engaging spreadsheet ever.
 
2021-01-17 11:40:52 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Damn, that sucks for those players who play a game developed by people who can't even master multi-threading, apparently.

/yes I know using multiple threads is a challenge
//but surely a professional with 18 years to do it could have gotten somewhere by now


The article said that mastering multithreading wasn't required, as single thread CPUs simply got faster.

Since multithreaded CPUs aren't new, I too am a bit surprised. It could be that the game is multithreaded, but simply only scales to X cores.

Its quite normal to have new computer games not being able to handle more than 8 cores for example.
 
2021-01-18 12:16:58 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: The article said that mastering multithreading wasn't required, as single thread CPUs simply got faster.

Since multithreaded CPUs aren't new, I too am a bit surprised. It could be that the game is multithreaded, but simply only scales to X cores.

Its quite normal to have new computer games not being able to handle more than 8 cores for example.


Yah they seem to spell out that they've only been able to figure out how to devote a single core to a 'system' which I imagine is the main issue when it comes to having half their playerbase converse upon simultaneously.

Doilars to donuts:  Each 'system' is a shard server and that process is 100% single-threaded since as alluded above they haven't put any meaningful updates into the engine for 12 years.

Game is dead.  Oh well.
 
2021-01-18 7:41:48 AM  

Wizzbang: the voice of raisin: Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with t ...

Interesting that you say that, because propaganda and morale is a huge part of these giant nullsec battles.  It takes something to get a few thousand followers online for hours at a time at the right time.

At some point, you really can become part of a "movement" in EVE, unlike scripted world events in other games where stuff just happens because of the devs.  When that happens, it's an amazing feeling, like how a war should feel, instead of just matches or a ladder ranking.


so this is all IMHO:

speaking as someone who's not goodcat being a "joiner", that sounds like every interview with a cult member to me.

but then again, every "movement" probably triggers the same chemical rush in its"believers" whether it's QAnon, or Obama's "Hope and Change", a "religious epiphany", fraternities/sororities, or the way you describe a large clan in Eve.

to me the difference is the goal of that movement.  I see QAnon as destructive, religion can swing wildly depending on its leaders, "Hope and Change" and the Civil Rights Movement as positive, and clans/guilds in MMOs as neutral.
 
2021-01-18 7:43:44 AM  

Branniganslaw: the voice of raisin: Mike_LowELL: Gubbo: EVE always strikes me as being significantly more work than my job

EVE Online is the kind of game for the person who is smart enough to realize that games should be the cool parts of reality but too dumb to understand the psychological context.

There is a good reason that real-time strategy games are about signing executive orders from the comfort of your office space and patiently waiting to implement the plan, said no one ever.  They're about direct control of little digital humans, and we accept this level of abstraction so that we can derive power fantasy from furiously chopping and acquiring the wood.

That's because the cool part of a videogame is that you can frame and shape these things in ways where individuals feel as though they have actual and genuine agency, compare to post-industrial society, where individuals are non-essential flesh in a global and interconnected eight-billion-player videogame where no one person has anything that can even be conceived as real power.

Yes, even the people at the top of the system, who mostly perform their acts of power through boring-ass bureaucracies, instead of meeting in the Pit of Death and finding out who is the superior ape, as I rain elbows downward through what was formerly the remains of the other ape's corpse.

And what we've mostly figured out, through two decades of massively multiplayer online games, and Battle Royales, and my Warcraft III teammates furiously shouting racial epithets at each other, and Russians playing Counter-Strike in real-life, is that the sweet spot is somewhere around four to six, and there is probably a biological component to this.

Once you go higher than that number, the whole thing becomes stupid, because you're either at the mercy of others to get the job done, or contrary to the Poltab furiously screaming how we all need to band together and vote, because it's the only way to change the outcome, you have no real role in the outcome.

So Eve ends up with the same problem as every other goddamn game of this type, because you cannot frame every person as the central protagonist, and in which you play forty hours a week so that you can have less power and agency than someone who goes to a real-world job forty hours a week.

Nobody at the bottom is playing the "real game", because nobody with an actual spine plays videogames to be a bit player in someone else's story, and the "real game" is stupid, anyway, because you're relying on huge nets of players to act out your wishes in a boring and disconnected manner to begin with.

And that works for one kind of person, the sociopath types who derive all their imagined agency from controlling and dominating others.  Fortunate for all of us that Eve Online will continue to serve this purpose and act as the honeypot that prevents them from doing more harmful things, like arguing they are exempt from child support because they are a sovereign citizen.

Anyway, I think what I'm trying to say here is that I should start updating my blog again.

I think what you're saying is that we should introduce Trump & Co, as well as QAnon believers to MMO games and let them set up their "guilds" and trap them in imaginary fights there.

That would work but sadly they can barely manage passwords for their user accounts. Could you imagine the hilarity of them trying to play an MMO?


Wait...


they eventually figure it out, and it would give them something more productive to do than the crap they're doing now.
 
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