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(Onion AV Club)   The Stand is shiat [warning: spoilers]   (tv.avclub.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Randall Flagg, The Stand, Captain Trips, Nadine work, New Vegas, Flagg's kingdom, periphery of The Stand, only choice  
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2958 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 16 Jan 2021 at 4:40 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-16 11:34:17 AM  
You expected it to be good?
 
2021-01-16 11:59:30 AM  
The Stand's New Vegas is where nuance goes to die

fark that. 40 years of subtly warning people about danger through Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, Star Trek and a hundred others and it takes Black Mirror levels of "subtle" to wake people the fark up.
 
2021-01-16 12:00:43 PM  
M-O-O-N spells shiat. 

I like the original miniseries and the the characters will always be the actors that were in it. I never read the book, so I don't have a frame of reference to make any comparisons, though.
 
2021-01-16 12:14:05 PM  
Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.
 
2021-01-16 12:19:37 PM  

Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.


Even when he's writing well, he's writing weird. His text doesn't translate well, so you have to take his story, not his writing, and make a movie with that. Some can pull it offarkubrick, Darabont, Muschietti), most can't.
 
2021-01-16 12:19:42 PM  
I just can't shake the feeling I am watching a second rate 80s miniseries with tits and violence.

I don't have any investment in the story, so I'm not disappointed. I read the book when I was maybe 13, and I remember I really liked it, but that's about it.
 
2021-01-16 12:55:14 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: M-O-O-N spells shiat.


That, and Matt Frewer's 'My life for you!' are at least lasting meme's from the original miniseries. No one is going to remember this garbage I'm sure except as an expensive mistake.
 
2021-01-16 12:58:28 PM  

Rattrap007: You expected it to be good?


I expected better. Not much, but better. Vampire Eric is no Randall Flagg. I'm glad that they diversify the cast a little bit, but still it's shiat. If you're going to jump around on timelines, you need a little better indicator than a woman's pregnant belly because the way they're doing it, it makes absolutely no sense. I've read the book probably 50 or 60 times, and that makes me spoiled I guess. But my husband never has and I'm spending the whole time trying to explain to him what's going on and what part of the book he's watching now as opposed to 30 seconds previously.
 
2021-01-16 1:00:24 PM  

Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.


Because no matter how talented the actors are or the screenwriting is or how good is special effects are, nothing can ever compare to the characters and scenery that exist in my head from reading it.
 
2021-01-16 2:15:47 PM  

Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.


Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower
 
2021-01-16 2:17:27 PM  
Unpopular opinion: Stephen King's books aren't the best to begin with. The concepts are interesting and his delivery is good...it's just F'd up. To the point where I think that we should REALLY do the ground penetrating radar on his lawn.

/ specific examples? The Kid corn-holed Trashcan man with a gun. It serves no plot point. Nadine does butt-stuff because the devil told her to. And everyone pairs off and gets pregnant towards the end.

// an argument COULD be made for the gang-bang CP scene at the end of IT being a plot point but I am sure as hell not gonna make it
 
2021-01-16 2:26:11 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower


Additional unpopular opinion: the Dark Tower is a series of really depressing short stories that are poorly written copies of Robert Howard's Solomon Cain stories.
 
2021-01-16 2:27:25 PM  
I have never liked Stephen King's books anyway.  They are just too f*cked up for my brain to process.  I feel like I need a shower after reading excerpts.  And King himself creeps me out, too.  Serious weird vibes coming off that guy.
 
2021-01-16 2:36:59 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower


Only ones I was thinking of were Shawshank and Mist. I forgot Green Mile.

Maybe his shorter works are better suited for the screen. Actually, that would make sense
 
2021-01-16 2:44:46 PM  
The main frustration I have with this is that:
The video editing and storyboarding is hot steaming garbage humping flaming garbage. They should use this short series as a way to teach film students how not to write. Whoever thought hey let's time jump this around ala LOST should be taken out back the woodshed.

A lot of the characters could have used some polishing from their shallow 70's writing. It wouldn't haven taken much. So far the only one I really like what they did with was Mr M O O N.

I don't think casting was that bad and the actors seem to be doing what they can with what they were given.
 
2021-01-16 3:08:13 PM  

Gubbo: Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower

Only ones I was thinking of were Shawshank and Mist. I forgot Green Mile.

Maybe his shorter works are better suited for the screen. Actually, that would make sense


Probably. Less room for interpretation.
 
2021-01-16 3:16:21 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower

Only ones I was thinking of were Shawshank and Mist. I forgot Green Mile.

Maybe his shorter works are better suited for the screen. Actually, that would make sense

Probably. Less room for interpretation.


And less story to try and fit into a reasonable run time.
 
2021-01-16 4:44:25 PM  

darkhorse23: Rattrap007: You expected it to be good?

I expected better. Not much, but better. Vampire Eric is no Randall Flagg. I'm glad that they diversify the cast a little bit, but still it's shiat. If you're going to jump around on timelines, you need a little better indicator than a woman's pregnant belly because the way they're doing it, it makes absolutely no sense. I've read the book probably 50 or 60 times, and that makes me spoiled I guess. But my husband never has and I'm spending the whole time trying to explain to him what's going on and what part of the book he's watching now as opposed to 30 seconds previously.


Timothy Oliphant should have been Flagg.
 
2021-01-16 4:46:31 PM  
That's disappointing. I was only barely aware it was being made with everything else going on and was hoping it'd be at least somewhat decent. Think the story would be fine working as a regular TV series just with the understanding there's a definitive end, like how most of the world does their TV.
 
2021-01-16 4:54:08 PM  

theflatline: darkhorse23: Rattrap007: You expected it to be good?

I expected better. Not much, but better. Vampire Eric is no Randall Flagg. I'm glad that they diversify the cast a little bit, but still it's shiat. If you're going to jump around on timelines, you need a little better indicator than a woman's pregnant belly because the way they're doing it, it makes absolutely no sense. I've read the book probably 50 or 60 times, and that makes me spoiled I guess. But my husband never has and I'm spending the whole time trying to explain to him what's going on and what part of the book he's watching now as opposed to 30 seconds previously.

Timothy Oliphant should have been Flagg.



Actually, "The Donald" (or his stand-in) would have made a good Flagg,
.But, I suppose they've been busy.
 
2021-01-16 4:57:07 PM  
What the hell is on whoopi goldberg's head in this movie...?  Those white dreds look like shiat.
 
2021-01-16 4:57:07 PM  
When I think understated and subtle, I think Vegas.
 
2021-01-16 4:58:58 PM  

Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.


Because Stephen King is not a visual storyteller.  The best King adaptations use their source material as a jumping off point for their director's vision.
 
2021-01-16 5:03:59 PM  
Even though the runtime is longer than the 90s series, it feels like at this point in the story, we know fewer characters and know them each less.

The flashback structure just doesn't work as well as following the journeys chronologically. And the cast is...fine. not terrible, but mostly a downgrade over the 90s cast.
 
2021-01-16 5:05:30 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: M-O-O-N spells shiat. 

I like the original miniseries and the the characters will always be the actors that were in it. I never read the book, so I don't have a frame of reference to make any comparisons, though.


What? The characters are the characters. It's an adaptation, as you said.
 
2021-01-16 5:08:34 PM  

koder: The Stand's New Vegas is where nuance goes to die

fark that. 40 years of subtly warning people about danger through Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, Star Trek and a hundred others and it takes Black Mirror levels of "subtle" to wake people the fark up.


I thought a Fallout crossover would be a sure win.
 
2021-01-16 5:18:54 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower


Hot take: I thought Dark Tower was... okay.  Not good, but just okay.  It definitely not only has forgotten just the face of its father, it has a severe case of prosopagnosia.
 
2021-01-16 5:21:00 PM  
Ugh.....

If there is one thing that I am beyond sick and tired of in media, be it books, TV, or movies, it's this insistence that *every* antagonist be 'nuanced'. That there has to be a reason or a contributing factor for them to be evil because 'nobody is born evil'.

Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite villain characters are nuanced. Magneto, being a good example.

But at the same time, 'evil for the sake of evil' also has it's place. Sauron didn't have a traumatic childhood. He wasn't teased or bullied by the other Valar. Neither was his mentor, Melkior. They had power. They knew what they wanted; chaos, destruction, and domination of everyone & everything. They went after their goals and said 'fark you' to everyone else.

Also...has the 'author' of that 'article *ever* been to Vegas? They don't do 'subtle' and 'nuanced' there. That's why King chose it to base the Evil Side out of in The Stand. Vegas is greed, lust, and excess all having an orgy under neon lights in a room furnished in velvet. Maybe the new series turns that up to 11, but it's not like it's that dramatic a tonal change.
 
2021-01-16 5:22:54 PM  

darkhorse23: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Because no matter how talented the actors are or the screenwriting is or how good is special effects are, nothing can ever compare to the characters and scenery that exist in my head from reading it.


And that's why there are no good adaptations of books. As we all know, the book is always better than the movie.

/super s
 
2021-01-16 5:26:01 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower


Dark Tower movie is an abomination
 
2021-01-16 5:36:26 PM  
the Talisman is my favorite Stephen King novel. it's also the one where he partnered up with Peter Straub. I'm surprised that's never been made into a movie/mini-series. Or did i miss it?
 
2021-01-16 5:46:44 PM  
Since Owen King is involved, I had some hope that it might be good, but it's been very disappointing so far.  Like most people have said, it's just not put together well, and you really can't invest in the characters - one problem with jumping around in time is that there can't be a character or story arc that way.
 
2021-01-16 6:03:15 PM  

sweetfark: the Talisman is my favorite Stephen King novel. it's also the one where he partnered up with Peter Straub. I'm surprised that's never been made into a movie/mini-series. Or did i miss it?


"Stephen King and Peter Straub's 'The Talisman' is finally headed to the screen | EW.com"

https://ew.com/movies/2019/03/12/steph​en-king-peter-straub-the-talisman-movi​e/?amp=true

/Wolf!
 
2021-01-16 6:13:13 PM  

Calypsocookie: sweetfark: the Talisman is my favorite Stephen King novel. it's also the one where he partnered up with Peter Straub. I'm surprised that's never been made into a movie/mini-series. Or did i miss it?

"Stephen King and Peter Straub's 'The Talisman' is finally headed to the screen | EW.com"

https://ew.com/movies/2019/03/12/steph​en-king-peter-straub-the-talisman-movi​e/?amp=true

/Wolf!


THAT is a movie/mini-series i can't WAIT to see! <excited voice> - one of my favorite books i keep on my shelf.
 
2021-01-16 6:18:14 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Ugh.....

If there is one thing that I am beyond sick and tired of in media, be it books, TV, or movies, it's this insistence that *every* antagonist be 'nuanced'. That there has to be a reason or a contributing factor for them to be evil because 'nobody is born evil'.

Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite villain characters are nuanced. Magneto, being a good example.

But at the same time, 'evil for the sake of evil' also has it's place. Sauron didn't have a traumatic childhood. He wasn't teased or bullied by the other Valar. Neither was his mentor, Melkior. They had power. They knew what they wanted; chaos, destruction, and domination of everyone & everything. They went after their goals and said 'fark you' to everyone else.

Also...has the 'author' of that 'article *ever* been to Vegas? They don't do 'subtle' and 'nuanced' there. That's why King chose it to base the Evil Side out of in The Stand. Vegas is greed, lust, and excess all having an orgy under neon lights in a room furnished in velvet. Maybe the new series turns that up to 11, but it's not like it's that dramatic a tonal change.


Pretty sure Sauron was a Maiar, like Gandalf and Saruman, but of a much higher order. Morgoth was the Valar.

/ I could be wrong though, it's been a minute since I've last read the Silmarillion. And you don't just pick up that particular book for light reading.
 
2021-01-16 6:24:32 PM  

sweetfark: the Talisman is my favorite Stephen King novel. it's also the one where he partnered up with Peter Straub. I'm surprised that's never been made into a movie/mini-series. Or did i miss it?


One of mine also which is a surprise for me because I really don't care for Straub. Ghost Story and maybe Koko were ok, but other than those...meh.
 
2021-01-16 6:24:47 PM  

NeoCortex42: Even though the runtime is longer than the 90s series, it feels like at this point in the story, we know fewer characters and know them each less.

The flashback structure just doesn't work as well as following the journeys chronologically. And the cast is...fine. not terrible, but mostly a downgrade over the 90s cast.


Yeah the jumping back and forth annoy me the most out of all the annoying things about this series.
 
2021-01-16 6:41:05 PM  

LaChanz: sweetfark: the Talisman is my favorite Stephen King novel. it's also the one where he partnered up with Peter Straub. I'm surprised that's never been made into a movie/mini-series. Or did i miss it?

One of mine also which is a surprise for me because I really don't care for Straub. Ghost Story and maybe Koko were ok, but other than those...meh.


to each his own. this is the only king novel i've kept on my bookshelves.
 
2021-01-16 6:42:11 PM  

groppet: NeoCortex42: Even though the runtime is longer than the 90s series, it feels like at this point in the story, we know fewer characters and know them each less.

The flashback structure just doesn't work as well as following the journeys chronologically. And the cast is...fine. not terrible, but mostly a downgrade over the 90s cast.

Yeah the jumping back and forth annoy me the most out of all the annoying things about this series.


Jumping back and forth in time only works if you do it like Pulp Fiction did. Everything must directly inform what comes after it, otherwise it's just a gimmick.

Stopping the movie dead in its tracks for the Walken monologue made sense because the audience knew what the pocketwatch meant to Butch. Vincent dies before we find out that he was given a sign and a chance to walk away like Jules and ignored it.

The Stand is just... melodramatic. There's no rhyme or reason to why and when they go back and forth.
 
2021-01-16 6:44:01 PM  

iheartscotch: RoyFokker'sGhost: Ugh.....

If there is one thing that I am beyond sick and tired of in media, be it books, TV, or movies, it's this insistence that *every* antagonist be 'nuanced'. That there has to be a reason or a contributing factor for them to be evil because 'nobody is born evil'.

Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite villain characters are nuanced. Magneto, being a good example.

But at the same time, 'evil for the sake of evil' also has it's place. Sauron didn't have a traumatic childhood. He wasn't teased or bullied by the other Valar. Neither was his mentor, Melkior. They had power. They knew what they wanted; chaos, destruction, and domination of everyone & everything. They went after their goals and said 'fark you' to everyone else.

Also...has the 'author' of that 'article *ever* been to Vegas? They don't do 'subtle' and 'nuanced' there. That's why King chose it to base the Evil Side out of in The Stand. Vegas is greed, lust, and excess all having an orgy under neon lights in a room furnished in velvet. Maybe the new series turns that up to 11, but it's not like it's that dramatic a tonal change.

Pretty sure Sauron was a Maiar, like Gandalf and Saruman, but of a much higher order. Morgoth was the Valar.

/ I could be wrong though, it's been a minute since I've last read the Silmarillion. And you don't just pick up that particular book for light reading.


No, you're right. I knew the Wizards/Istari were Maiar, I just thought Sauron was a lesser Valar instead of a higher Maiar.
 
2021-01-16 6:44:06 PM  
Laura San Giacomo was the best Nadine. Change my mind.
 
2021-01-16 6:50:44 PM  

The Bunyip: Laura San Giacomo was the best Nadine. Change my mind.


perfect for that part
 
2021-01-16 6:53:06 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower


Not a fan of The Shining? How about Christine?
 
2021-01-16 7:00:55 PM  

buckybear: What the hell is on whoopi goldberg's head in this movie...?  Those white dreds look like shiat.


Maybe borrowed from the Walking Dead film set?
 
2021-01-16 7:11:38 PM  

Calypsocookie: Gubbo: Why is it so hard to make good versions of Stephen King creations.

Shawshank Redemption
Misery
Stand By Me
The Mist
The Green Mile...

Would like a word.

/but yea there are some serious stinkers
//looking at you Dark Tower


Cujo
Carrie
Christine
Cat's Eye (debatable)
The Shining
 
2021-01-16 7:14:37 PM  
I loved the Shawshank Redemption. will never pull that one back.
 
2021-01-16 7:14:42 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: iheartscotch: RoyFokker'sGhost: Ugh.....

If there is one thing that I am beyond sick and tired of in media, be it books, TV, or movies, it's this insistence that *every* antagonist be 'nuanced'. That there has to be a reason or a contributing factor for them to be evil because 'nobody is born evil'.

Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite villain characters are nuanced. Magneto, being a good example.

But at the same time, 'evil for the sake of evil' also has it's place. Sauron didn't have a traumatic childhood. He wasn't teased or bullied by the other Valar. Neither was his mentor, Melkior. They had power. They knew what they wanted; chaos, destruction, and domination of everyone & everything. They went after their goals and said 'fark you' to everyone else.

Also...has the 'author' of that 'article *ever* been to Vegas? They don't do 'subtle' and 'nuanced' there. That's why King chose it to base the Evil Side out of in The Stand. Vegas is greed, lust, and excess all having an orgy under neon lights in a room furnished in velvet. Maybe the new series turns that up to 11, but it's not like it's that dramatic a tonal change.

Pretty sure Sauron was a Maiar, like Gandalf and Saruman, but of a much higher order. Morgoth was the Valar.

/ I could be wrong though, it's been a minute since I've last read the Silmarillion. And you don't just pick up that particular book for light reading.

No, you're right. I knew the Wizards/Istari were Maiar, I just thought Sauron was a lesser Valar instead of a higher Maiar.

Sauron started out good, or at least not evil. Morgoth corrupted him. Morgoth as Melkor was evil from the get-go, corrupting Ilúvatar's creation song. After the War of Wrath, Sauron tried to repent, but fell back into evil.
 
2021-01-16 7:32:24 PM  
On the other hand:

https://i.imgur.com/VEBu1eJ.gif

/the other hand is busy
/linked 'cos maybe NSFW
 
2021-01-16 7:39:33 PM  

COMALite J: RoyFokker'sGhost: iheartscotch: RoyFokker'sGhost: Ugh.....

If there is one thing that I am beyond sick and tired of in media, be it books, TV, or movies, it's this insistence that *every* antagonist be 'nuanced'. That there has to be a reason or a contributing factor for them to be evil because 'nobody is born evil'.

Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite villain characters are nuanced. Magneto, being a good example.

But at the same time, 'evil for the sake of evil' also has it's place. Sauron didn't have a traumatic childhood. He wasn't teased or bullied by the other Valar. Neither was his mentor, Melkior. They had power. They knew what they wanted; chaos, destruction, and domination of everyone & everything. They went after their goals and said 'fark you' to everyone else.

Also...has the 'author' of that 'article *ever* been to Vegas? They don't do 'subtle' and 'nuanced' there. That's why King chose it to base the Evil Side out of in The Stand. Vegas is greed, lust, and excess all having an orgy under neon lights in a room furnished in velvet. Maybe the new series turns that up to 11, but it's not like it's that dramatic a tonal change.

Pretty sure Sauron was a Maiar, like Gandalf and Saruman, but of a much higher order. Morgoth was the Valar.

/ I could be wrong though, it's been a minute since I've last read the Silmarillion. And you don't just pick up that particular book for light reading.

No, you're right. I knew the Wizards/Istari were Maiar, I just thought Sauron was a lesser Valar instead of a higher Maiar.
Sauron started out good, or at least not evil. Morgoth corrupted him. Morgoth as Melkor was evil from the get-go, corrupting Ilúvatar's creation song. After the War of Wrath, Sauron tried to repent, but fell back into evil.


Okay, I admit it. It's been about 2 decades since I read the Silmarillion. Need to go back for a refresher read.

/Still annoyed by 'all villains need to be nuanced', though.
 
2021-01-16 7:41:36 PM  
Wait I could swear that Farkers didn't subscribe to CBS
 
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