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(Mashable)   MacBook Touch Bar, 2016-2021. RIP ... and good riddance   (mashable.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, MacBook, Apple Inc., Touch Bar, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Macintosh, Multi-touch, analyst Ming-Chi Kuo  
•       •       •

1160 clicks; posted to STEM » on 16 Jan 2021 at 11:02 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-01-16 8:14:15 AM  
It's not worthless. It can run Doom.

Doom on the MacBook Pro Touch Bar
Youtube GD0L46y3IqI
 
2021-01-16 8:26:29 AM  
I got used to the super thin keys with no travel... I got used to using USB-C dongles to plug in everything... I got used to not being able to run 32-bit programs anymore...

I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.
 
2021-01-16 8:43:59 AM  
Just a rumor now. Nothing set in stone yet. Apple could still change their minds.
 
2021-01-16 9:41:43 AM  
morbotron.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-16 9:44:44 AM  
Other rumored updates: the return of MagSafe, more ports

https://mashable.com/article/apple-ma​c​book-pro-magsafe/
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2021-01-16 10:04:31 AM  

forteblast: I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.


I use UNIX-type operating systems, principally because of the power of the command line.  The Escape key is integral to what I use a computer for out of the use of editors like vi.

Even with my distaste for walled-garden platforms I had used an older 2011-era MacBook Pro that was work-issued and it was a pretty good computer for the kinds of things I do.  When it was time for a new personal computer I considered the Apple, until I learned that the only way to get multiple ports on the computer was to buy one with the touchbar, and one couldn't even retrofit a conventional keyboard in its place.

It's funny.  I could've gotten by with all of the F-keys being replaced with touchbar, but their insistence on replacing the whole row disqualified them.
I'm not sure that even when it's time for this Dell XPS-13 to be replaced if I'd go with Apple.  I've watched them go insane deprecating-out ports that I use.  Sure, the rectangular USB and full SD are older, but I still use them on a regular basis.  Having to carry adapters on top of the devices is awkward.
 
2021-01-16 10:20:51 AM  

TWX: forteblast: I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.

I use UNIX-type operating systems, principally because of the power of the command line.  The Escape key is integral to what I use a computer for out of the use of editors like vi.

Even with my distaste for walled-garden platforms I had used an older 2011-era MacBook Pro that was work-issued and it was a pretty good computer for the kinds of things I do.  When it was time for a new personal computer I considered the Apple, until I learned that the only way to get multiple ports on the computer was to buy one with the touchbar, and one couldn't even retrofit a conventional keyboard in its place.

It's funny.  I could've gotten by with all of the F-keys being replaced with touchbar, but their insistence on replacing the whole row disqualified them.
I'm not sure that even when it's time for this Dell XPS-13 to be replaced if I'd go with Apple.  I've watched them go insane deprecating-out ports that I use.  Sure, the rectangular USB and full SD are older, but I still use them on a regular basis.  Having to carry adapters on top of the devices is awkward.


Mac Os allows you to install from the App Store or whatever you like from where ever you like.
 
2021-01-16 10:38:53 AM  
The Touch Bar is useful for one thing, screenshots. To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else. Anyways there a bunch of different variants, and I can never remember which is which.
With the Touch Bar it will let you tweak all of the screenshot options after you hit any one of the arcane key combinations before you take the screenshot, which is really handy.
Also, I'm an Emacs user so the loss of the Escape key wasn't too bad for me (also they restored the Escape key on newer models, while retaining the rest of the Touch Bar).
 
2021-01-16 10:40:38 AM  

theflatline: Mac Os allows you to install from the App Store or whatever you like from where ever you like.


For now. I used to be able to use whatever battery I liked whenever I liked. And wired stereo earbuds that had zero battery life or delay to worry about.
 
2021-01-16 10:43:31 AM  

TWX: forteblast: I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.

I use UNIX-type operating systems, principally because of the power of the command line.


Yeah, if I did what you do I'd want to throw this computer out a window.
 
2021-01-16 10:55:56 AM  

NoRedShadow: To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else.


Or for those us using the superior PC, we just press the "Print Screen" button and open the file in whatever graphics program we desire to use.

/ gladly got rid of my Macs years ago
// yes, I went there with the "superior PC" comment
/// FLAME ON!
 
2021-01-16 11:17:05 AM  

Winterlight: NoRedShadow: To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else.

Or for those us using the superior PC, we just press the "Print Screen" button and open the file in whatever graphics program we desire to use.

/ gladly got rid of my Macs years ago
// yes, I went there with the "superior PC" comment
/// FLAME ON!


Man, you need to get with the times. Windows-shift-S is the superior screenshot method on Windows these days.

/not kidding
 
2021-01-16 11:29:51 AM  
I almost bought the new 16-inch pro because they added a physical escape key back.  I'm glad I didn't - 2021 will have a 16-inch M1X chipped pro with no touch-bar.  Looking for ward to buying it.

wife has the MacBook Air M1 model and it's been a seamless translation for her.
 
2021-01-16 11:46:56 AM  

theflatline: Mac Os allows you to install from the App Store or whatever you like from where ever you like.


Only because they're not in a position of power in that space to demand it. They'll do so the instant it becomes feasible.

People thought Microsoft was bad with it's monopoly on OS's. That's nothing compared to Apple controlling the OS, processor, hardware and marketplace.
 
2021-01-16 11:49:32 AM  
It's Apple, they'll probably replace the entire keyboard with a touchscreen.
 
2021-01-16 12:03:24 PM  
That article reads like a battered wives and girlfriends support group.

That said, between the reintroduction of magsafe, their new optimized chips and real keys again, I will be considering a MacBook pro for my next laptop, I thoroughly enjoyed the last three MBPs I had before they got stupid.
 
2021-01-16 12:09:51 PM  

talkertopc: It's Apple, they'll probably replace the entire keyboard with a touchscreen.


The people behind the Optimus Maximus were developing something like that a while back.  Not sure what became of it.
 
2021-01-16 12:12:07 PM  

talkertopc: It's Apple, they'll probably replace the entire keyboard with a touchscreen.


Actually surprised a manufacturer hasn't tried that already in an attempt to shave off that extra hundredth of an inch over even the crappy new chiclet keyboards.  Especially with smartphones and tablets getting a new generation used to typing without tactile feedback or any form of touch typing.
 
2021-01-16 12:35:03 PM  
The touch bar does have one use that I find myself using a lot. When watching videos online the touch bar displays the playhead and allows you to scrub through the videos with it. For whatever reason the playhead still shows up when the video is interrupted by an ad and most of the time it's still functional, so it lets me scrub past most ads without me needing to install an ad blocker.
 
2021-01-16 1:15:48 PM  
 
2021-01-16 1:17:49 PM  
The only use I have found for it is scrubbing through videos. It's great for that. I would gladly give that up for the return of physical function keys.
 
2021-01-16 1:18:30 PM  

forteblast: I got used to the super thin keys with no travel... I got used to using USB-C dongles to plug in everything... I got used to not being able to run 32-bit programs anymore...

I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.


They brought back a real Escape key on the 2020 models.
 
2021-01-16 1:25:48 PM  

forteblast: I got used to the super thin keys with no travel... I got used to using USB-C dongles to plug in everything... I got used to not being able to run 32-bit programs anymore...

I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.


They actually walked that back recently when they got rid of the hated Butterfly switch keyboard, so the new models have a physical Esc key in addition to the Touch Bar.  This makes a lot more sense, because the Escape key never changes while the function keys are context sensitive.
 
2021-01-16 1:26:21 PM  

comrade: I almost bought the new 16-inch pro because they added a physical escape key back.  I'm glad I didn't - 2021 will have a 16-inch M1X chipped pro with no touch-bar.  Looking for ward to buying it.

wife has the MacBook Air M1 model and it's been a seamless translation for her.


I bought the 16 incher and love everything about it. I don't regret not waiting because I bought it when I needed one. It replaced a 2012 model that got taken by my son for remote schooling.

The new generation looks like a leap forward and I'm sure it will be awesome whenever it's time for me to replace mine- but it has also long been my experience that the last of a generation is often in demand as well
 
2021-01-16 1:29:50 PM  

Slackfumasta: Winterlight: NoRedShadow: To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else.

Or for those us using the superior PC, we just press the "Print Screen" button and open the file in whatever graphics program we desire to use.

/ gladly got rid of my Macs years ago
// yes, I went there with the "superior PC" comment
/// FLAME ON!

Man, you need to get with the times. Windows-shift-S is the superior screenshot method on Windows these days.

/not kidding


If you are using what is built in, it is a lot better. I do a LOT of screenshots creating training materials at work, though, so I'm using SnagIt with the screen capture bound to the Print Screen button.
 
2021-01-16 1:49:34 PM  

montreal_medic: comrade: I almost bought the new 16-inch pro because they added a physical escape key back.  I'm glad I didn't - 2021 will have a 16-inch M1X chipped pro with no touch-bar.  Looking for ward to buying it.

wife has the MacBook Air M1 model and it's been a seamless translation for her.

I bought the 16 incher and love everything about it. I don't regret not waiting because I bought it when I needed one. It replaced a 2012 model that got taken by my son for remote schooling.

The new generation looks like a leap forward and I'm sure it will be awesome whenever it's time for me to replace mine- but it has also long been my experience that the last of a generation is often in demand as well


The current 16'' models will still be in demand for quite sometime. Just the ability to natively run Windows will make them sought after even after the full switch over to ARM.
 
2021-01-16 2:07:21 PM  

NoRedShadow: The Touch Bar is useful for one thing, screenshots. To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else. Anyways there a bunch of different variants, and I can never remember which is which.
With the Touch Bar it will let you tweak all of the screenshot options after you hit any one of the arcane key combinations before you take the screenshot, which is really handy.
Also, I'm an Emacs user so the loss of the Escape key wasn't too bad for me (also they restored the Escape key on newer models, while retaining the rest of the Touch Bar).


Or just bind it to whatever key combo you like.  I have screen shot and screen record bound to different buttons on a Logitech MS master 2S.

I also have them routed to a folder called screenshots.  Plus there are a myriad of finer grained screenshot tools for both Windows and Mac.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-16 2:13:06 PM  

EvilVanMan: talkertopc: It's Apple, they'll probably replace the entire keyboard with a touchscreen.

The people behind the Optimus Maximus were developing something like that a while back.  Not sure what became of it.


That kind of died but the Elgato Stream Deck is something in that direction:
https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stre​a​m-deck-xl
 
2021-01-16 2:14:58 PM  

zimbach: EvilVanMan: talkertopc: It's Apple, they'll probably replace the entire keyboard with a touchscreen.

The people behind the Optimus Maximus were developing something like that a while back.  Not sure what became of it.

That kind of died but the Elgato Stream Deck is something in that direction:
https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/strea​m-deck-xl


on second though that's something else entirely, sorry
 
2021-01-16 2:55:29 PM  

TWX: forteblast: I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.

I use UNIX-type operating systems, principally because of the power of the command line.  The Escape key is integral to what I use a computer for out of the use of editors like vi.


I'm genuinely curious, so if I may ask, is Windows Subsystem for Linux relevant for you? I'm wondering if it would offer the features to run what you need without having to install any other VMs. Also, if you do use it, are you generally happy or unhappy with it?
 
2021-01-16 3:08:02 PM  

zimbach: The people behind the Optimus Maximus were developing something like that a while back.  Not sure what became of it.


That kind of died but the Elgato Stream Deck is something in that direction:
https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/strea​m-deck-xl


Lenovo had a laptop that had no physical keyboard.  The second keyboard was e-ink and kind of worked.
 
2021-01-16 3:34:22 PM  
The touch bar is excellent when it takes up the entire screen. And it's fully supported by apps that way.

Take notes, Apple.
 
2021-01-16 3:34:43 PM  
I shall call this invention, the Touch Screen.
 
2021-01-16 4:14:23 PM  
Touchbar was dumb. It did help me discover that my fingers just barely brush the function row when I hit certain numbers. Which isn't a problem with real keys but activated "buttons" on the stupid touchbar. Anyway, one cannot afford to get used to it even if one wants to, if one uses external keyboards with any regularity.

Whole damn thing should have been an iPhone companion app or some such.
 
2021-01-16 4:23:20 PM  

theflatline: NoRedShadow: The Touch Bar is useful for one thing, screenshots. To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else. Anyways there a bunch of different variants, and I can never remember which is which.
With the Touch Bar it will let you tweak all of the screenshot options after you hit any one of the arcane key combinations before you take the screenshot, which is really handy.
Also, I'm an Emacs user so the loss of the Escape key wasn't too bad for me (also they restored the Escape key on newer models, while retaining the rest of the Touch Bar).

Or just bind it to whatever key combo you like.  I have screen shot and screen record bound to different buttons on a Logitech MS master 2S.

I also have them routed to a folder called screenshots.  Plus there are a myriad of finer grained screenshot tools for both Windows and Mac.

[Fark user image image 614x275]


IIRC, the command-shift-3 and 4 shortcuts have been around at least since system 7 in the mid 90s.

Once OS X came around, about 20 years ago, the system made it easy to customize any key combination you wanted for various functions (including this one).

I never used one of these MacBooks with the touch bar, but to me, it seemed about as pointless as the row of Fkeys - potentially useful, but only if you really wanted to make it work.
 
2021-01-16 4:40:14 PM  

cyberspacedout: theflatline: NoRedShadow: The Touch Bar is useful for one thing, screenshots. To take screenshots on a Mac you hit control-shift-command-4 or something and it will let you take a screenshot and save it to the clipboard. Hitting control-shift-command-3 or something saves it to the desktop instead or somewhere else. Anyways there a bunch of different variants, and I can never remember which is which.
With the Touch Bar it will let you tweak all of the screenshot options after you hit any one of the arcane key combinations before you take the screenshot, which is really handy.
Also, I'm an Emacs user so the loss of the Escape key wasn't too bad for me (also they restored the Escape key on newer models, while retaining the rest of the Touch Bar).

Or just bind it to whatever key combo you like.  I have screen shot and screen record bound to different buttons on a Logitech MS master 2S.

I also have them routed to a folder called screenshots.  Plus there are a myriad of finer grained screenshot tools for both Windows and Mac.

[Fark user image image 614x275]

IIRC, the command-shift-3 and 4 shortcuts have been around at least since system 7 in the mid 90s.

Once OS X came around, about 20 years ago, the system made it easy to customize any key combination you wanted for various functions (including this one).

I never used one of these MacBooks with the touch bar, but to me, it seemed about as pointless as the row of Fkeys - potentially useful, but only if you really wanted to make it work.


I work for Apple and I never use a Touch bar, and probably use the touch keys except on the odd occasion twice a year.

However, a metric ass ton of people use the F Keys.

I find Apple/Windows users to be equally spread over the same spectrums.

1.They know how to use the browser so they think they are computer literate. Akin to George Jetson having to hit that one red button and even having trouble doing that.

2.They attached a USB device once and so now they are experts at all things electronic.

3.The one ones that are vaguely computer literate on both OS's tend to rely too much on google and get themselves into trouble OR "i saw two other people on the internet having this issue, let me speak to an engineer." They do not understand the concepts of one off issues.

4.Or then you have the guys who have a wealth of knowledge who run incredibly one off scenarios(like a lot of farkers) who get into trouble and expect you to troubleshoot their wildly strange rigs.

Example "i got a rig with pringles cans and i am running a python script that the output shows me that the wifi drops intermittently, at least twice a day for 2 seconds when I am in my basement."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-16 5:15:31 PM  
MacBook palmrests and touchpads are absolutely huge, even on the 13" models. There's absolutely no reason Apple couldn't have simply shifted a complete f-key-including keyboard down a bit and placed the touchbar above that.

Myself, I don't really care for the touchbar, and hate it as a f-key replacement. That and anemic choices below the touchbar MBPs drove me to a XPS13 running Linux. But now that the M1 MacBooks are out and the Air is really just about as good as the Pro I'm looking at going back.

Related: there is no way Apple is bringing back ports like USB-A or HDMI. I'd be very surprised if MagSafe as we knew it returns. I think people are confusing MacBook MagSafe with iPhone MagSafe, and that patent that Apple recently filed for charging iPhones on the MacBook palmrest. At best, and with any luck, they'll introduce a (hopefully non-proprietary) magnetic USB-C standard.


dyhchong: The touch bar is excellent when it takes up the entire screen. And it's fully supported by apps that way.

Take notes, Apple.


dyhchong: I shall call this invention, the Touch Screen.


I hate touchscreens. I have no desire to smudge the hell out of the screen I'm trying to read. I've actively disabled it on my XPS13.

I suspect that if Apple does ditch the touchbar they will offer touchscreens, and the touchbar functionality will somehow shift into the dock. Actually, I think with ARM Macs and iOS interoperability, MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.
 
2021-01-16 5:27:30 PM  

spiralscratch: MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.


PCs have had them for years, so they're bound to get to Macs eventually.
 
2021-01-16 5:52:36 PM  

mjbok: spiralscratch: MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.

PCs have had them for years, so they're bound to get to Macs eventually.


Apple has had iPads and iPhones for years, so the manufacturing capability is there. The question is whether there's enough demand.
 
2021-01-16 6:17:23 PM  

cyberspacedout: mjbok: spiralscratch: MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.

PCs have had them for years, so they're bound to get to Macs eventually.

Apple has had iPads and iPhones for years, so the manufacturing capability is there. The question is whether there's enough demand.


The first laptop I used with a touch screen predates the iphone by over half a decade.
 
2021-01-16 6:19:41 PM  

cyberspacedout: mjbok: spiralscratch: MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.

PCs have had them for years, so they're bound to get to Macs eventually.

Apple has had iPads and iPhones for years, so the manufacturing capability is there. The question is whether there's enough demand.


The iPad is a great seller for them. I think adding a touchscreen to MacBooks could cut into the iPad sales. Might be why Apple is hesitant to go to touchscreens.
 
2021-01-16 6:22:44 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: cyberspacedout: mjbok: spiralscratch: MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.

PCs have had them for years, so they're bound to get to Macs eventually.

Apple has had iPads and iPhones for years, so the manufacturing capability is there. The question is whether there's enough demand.

The iPad is a great seller for them. I think adding a touchscreen to MacBooks could cut into the iPad sales. Might be why Apple is hesitant to go to touchscreens.


No as an Apple employee I can tell you there is an ios only camp and a mac camp of users and while there is some crossover it is not too much.

Not to mention the repair nightmare.

And the exponential cost increase.
 
2021-01-16 6:43:21 PM  

theflatline: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: cyberspacedout: mjbok: spiralscratch: MacBook touchscreens are inevitable.

PCs have had them for years, so they're bound to get to Macs eventually.

Apple has had iPads and iPhones for years, so the manufacturing capability is there. The question is whether there's enough demand.

The iPad is a great seller for them. I think adding a touchscreen to MacBooks could cut into the iPad sales. Might be why Apple is hesitant to go to touchscreens.

No as an Apple employee I can tell you there is an ios only camp and a mac camp of users and while there is some crossover it is not too much.

Not to mention the repair nightmare.

And the exponential cost increase.


Ahahahahahaha, repair nightmare for whom? They're already a repair nightmare.

Exponential cost increase? A full screen digitiser to a consumer is like $50. You can buy $200 laptops with full touch screens.

Oh, that's right, Apple. Exponential APPLE cost increase. You're talking about not-real issues.
 
2021-01-16 8:30:53 PM  

qorkfiend: Other rumored updates: the return of MagSafe, more ports

https://mashable.com/article/apple-mac​book-pro-magsafe/


Is it 2012 again?
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2021-01-16 8:42:26 PM  

I won a math debate: TWX: forteblast: I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.

I use UNIX-type operating systems, principally because of the power of the command line.  The Escape key is integral to what I use a computer for out of the use of editors like vi.

I'm genuinely curious, so if I may ask, is Windows Subsystem for Linux relevant for you? I'm wondering if it would offer the features to run what you need without having to install any other VMs. Also, if you do use it, are you generally happy or unhappy with it?


I am concerned any time Microsoft gets involved with Linux.
 
2021-01-16 9:37:27 PM  
Meanwhile, at Microsoft...

Fark user imageView Full Size


Such innovation.
 
2021-01-17 1:27:51 AM  

BullBearMS: Meanwhile, at Microsoft...

[Fark user image 850x850]

Such innovation.


i.imgur.comView Full Size


Look to the left of the "1" key. They may have spent millions of dollars to prevent Win10 S users from using vim instead of Candy Crush as the default text editor but at least it's got a farkin' ESC key.
 
2021-01-17 1:44:03 AM  

Twilight Farkle: BullBearMS: Meanwhile, at Microsoft...

[Fark user image 850x850]

Such innovation.

[i.imgur.com image 850x477]

Look to the left of the "1" key. They may have spent millions of dollars to prevent Win10 S users from using vim instead of Candy Crush as the default text editor but at least it's got a farkin' ESC key.


What are you talking about?  That's Microsoft's foldable tablet (Surface Neo?) (Whoa...) with a keyboard sitting on it.

/This post written on a macbook with a touchbar and an ESC key.
 
2021-01-17 2:37:35 AM  

Fursecution: Twilight Farkle: BullBearMS: Meanwhile, at Microsoft...

[Fark user image 850x850]

Such innovation.

[i.imgur.com image 850x477]

Look to the left of the "1" key. They may have spent millions of dollars to prevent Win10 S users from using vim instead of Candy Crush as the default text editor but at least it's got a farkin' ESC key.

What are you talking about?  That's Microsoft's foldable tablet (Surface Neo?) (Whoa...) with a keyboard sitting on it.

/This post written on a macbook with a touchbar and an ESC key.


Just being snarky about Apple in the Jony Ive era and "hey, a physical ESC key offends my UX sensibilities, nobody needs muscle memory, just make everything a fondleslabtouchscreen" [not an actual quote, but, uh, he probably wouldn't have disagreed] and Windows in the "Fark, those iThingies are eating us alive, let's ruin the entire farking desktop" era, wherein Win8 threw out 30 years of UI experience in favor of Mobile-First UX, and Win10 threw out 40+ years of OS in favor of Services as a Substitute for software.



tl;dr: Jobs would have given Ive the touchbar, but kept the ESC key because he'd have recognized that some people use vi as an editor. But Jobs wasn't around, Microsoft did no better, and both sides are bad, so 2030 will be The Year of the Linux Desktop.
 
2021-01-17 9:40:04 PM  

I won a math debate: TWX: forteblast: I never got used to the touch bar. I roll my eyes every time I have to hit Escape.

I use UNIX-type operating systems, principally because of the power of the command line.  The Escape key is integral to what I use a computer for out of the use of editors like vi.

I'm genuinely curious, so if I may ask, is Windows Subsystem for Linux relevant for you? I'm wondering if it would offer the features to run what you need without having to install any other VMs. Also, if you do use it, are you generally happy or unhappy with it?


One of my co-workers tried using a Windows host system. The problem he ran into with the Linux subsystem was that it was still using some sort of virtualization, and couldn't be used concurrently with VMware. He ended up going straight Linux host instead. I believe the same issue exists with Docker as well.

/YMMV of course
 
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