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(Twitter)   One more failure from the dotard : Russia withdraws from Open Sky Treaty after trump assured everybody he would get a better deal   (twitter.com) divider line
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2065 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jan 2021 at 9:38 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



45 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-01-16 3:02:31 AM  
Original Tweet:

 
2021-01-16 6:56:31 AM  
the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-16 7:30:53 AM  
Putin's idea, I'm sure.  Donnie knows nothing about treaties, and doesn't care what laws he breaks in the first place.
 
2021-01-16 9:39:51 AM  
Yeah, just like that better Iran nuclear deal that we'll see aaaaaaaany day now...
 
2021-01-16 9:40:01 AM  
Skies are closed. Mig out front should have told you
 
2021-01-16 9:41:33 AM  
I'm sure the Trumpists will tell us it's Biden's fault.
 
2021-01-16 9:45:07 AM  
If you didn't see this coming in the spring of 2016, you're a dimwit and I hope there are no children in your household.
 
2021-01-16 9:46:11 AM  
yes the Putin/Trump presidency is almost at its end

the collusion squad helped him incite armed insurrection,
those buds manafort and stone he pardoned
having come up with this great new way
to do the treason dance yet again.

thanks boys, and god bless russia amirite?
 
2021-01-16 9:48:16 AM  
A lot of good "Open Skies" did for the Malaysian flight shot down by Putin's drunk " Little Green Men" over Ukraine
 
2021-01-16 9:48:21 AM  
Is it a failure if you achieved exactly what you wanted?

It's a failure for America, but that's basically the theme of Trump's presidency.
 
2021-01-16 9:51:06 AM  
He is such a wild card

Too bad this is real life and not bridge.
 
2021-01-16 9:53:07 AM  
trump didn't just leave the treaty, he had the special planes they use for surveillance discarded/destroyed/decommissioned.  just so that we can't immediately get back in the game if someone smarter comes along.  (same thing they did to the post office. why basically kneecap it, when you can destroy essential sorting hardware/infrastructure too?) i doubt putin is going to take the same bold steps of destroying his own assets for somebody else's benefit.

here is a good maddow piece on 45's decision to leave, (they talk about getting rid of the planes at ~1:20)

Trump Dismantles Decades-Old Surveillance Treaty Irreparably On His Way Out The Door | Rachel Maddow
Youtube wUtZqMf-FdU
 
2021-01-16 9:53:42 AM  

Sum Dum Gai: Yeah, just like that better Iran nuclear deal that we'll see aaaaaaaany day now...


And the health plan.

And he seems to run out the clock on infrastructure week too.
 
2021-01-16 9:54:20 AM  

Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]


French Guyana is included because the French remain pretty serious about the whole "no, really, France Outre-Mer is farking French, damnit"

/ guess the Falklands aren't included, for Britain?
 
2021-01-16 9:54:51 AM  
A better deal....... FOR PUTIN!
 
2021-01-16 9:56:46 AM  

fallingcow: Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]

French Guyana is included because the French remain pretty serious about the whole "no, really, France Outre-Mer is farking French, damnit"

/ guess the Falklands aren't included, for Britain?


I participate over on Quora in the military history spaces. The butthurt the Argentines show to this day Has led me to conclude that if Fawlty Towers ever comes back, they can replace the episode about the Germans with one about the Argentines.

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!
 
2021-01-16 10:00:28 AM  
Since now Russia is withdrawin from the treaty too it is useless since its between EU and Canada.

Russia wanted that from the start but didn't want to look like they were the ones wanting it. Now they can get even more nefarious with countries like Georgia and Ukraine and possibly Turkey.

This is the implication of that decision.
 
2021-01-16 10:02:31 AM  
Here's the problem with donnies deals. He demands something outrageous. When he hits opposition, he threatens to sue (or bomb or impose tariffs or some other punitive measures). That worked well for him in business (personally - his businesses always ended up bankrupt after he gutted them for personal gain). It hasn't worked at all for him as president. China never bent, Mexico never paid for his wall, the UN never "paid him back", Iran has an open arrest order on him, allies basically told him to Fark off and closed their borders to Americans, NK continues to build nukes, Turkey runs unchecked, Russia is in the best position they've been in for decades. Everything Donnie touches dies.
 
2021-01-16 10:05:50 AM  

Sum Dum Gai: Yeah, just like that better Iran nuclear deal that we'll see aaaaaaaany day now...


And the most tremendous, luxurious health plan. A lot of people are saying it's the most tremendous thing they'll ever see in two weeks.

/yuck. I feel like I need to kick my own ass after that
 
2021-01-16 10:07:12 AM  
That treaty was obsolete anyway.  Nobody needs to use spy planes anymore when you can count a guy's nose hair by satellite.
 
2021-01-16 10:23:20 AM  
He's still planning to get us a better deal, right after he releases his health care plan

Two weeks!!
 
2021-01-16 10:45:24 AM  

Purple_Urkle: If you didn't see this coming in the spring of 2016, you're a dimwit and I hope there are no children in your household.


If you believe Russia has ever honored a treaty involving spying, weapons development, military force, etc


I have an island to sell you just off the coast of China
 
2021-01-16 10:46:08 AM  
They're just going to bundle it in with a new nuclear deal with Iran that gives them an extended 3-year warranty and $4bn in Flooz credits.
 
2021-01-16 10:57:40 AM  

Hey Nurse!: Here's the problem with donnies deals. He demands something outrageous. When he hits opposition, he threatens to sue (or bomb or impose tariffs or some other punitive measures). That worked well for him in business (personally - his businesses always ended up bankrupt after he gutted them for personal gain). It hasn't worked at all for him as president. China never bent, Mexico never paid for his wall, the UN never "paid him back", Iran has an open arrest order on him, allies basically told him to Fark off and closed their borders to Americans, NK continues to build nukes, Turkey runs unchecked, Russia is in the best position they've been in for decades. Everything Donnie touches dies.


trump isn't used to playing on a level field. In the past he was always able to dictate the term of the engagement to his advantage. And when he couldn't (court cases) he would stall and turn it into a war of attrition until the other side capitulated. And Trump is all used to being "the only game I town". Other countries don't have any of those restriction, and as you noted, went around trump.
 
2021-01-16 10:58:57 AM  

lifeslammer: Purple_Urkle: If you didn't see this coming in the spring of 2016, you're a dimwit and I hope there are no children in your household.

If you believe Russia has ever honored a treaty involving spying, weapons development, military force, etc


I have an island to sell you just off the coast of China


Russia is full of untrustworthy scumbags.

That doesn't make Trump's predictable rules scrapping in their favor any less shiatty, it makes the people who treated me like a partisan shill to be dismissed in 2016 into absolute monsters.

They enabled Trump's treason from the start.

If they have children, there's no doubt the children are being abused, I hope they murder their parents because the world would be a better place and the parents deserve it.
 
2021-01-16 11:03:15 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: That treaty was obsolete anyway.  Nobody needs to use spy planes anymore when you can count a guy's nose hair by satellite.


The satellites they use for that only get close enough to see well once an orbit. The planes were for whenever else.
 
2021-01-16 11:04:51 AM  
It's not a failure if the entire point was to enable Russia to leave the treaty.
 
2021-01-16 11:14:53 AM  

Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image 450x231]


OK, so basically just our most important allies are left in it.
 
2021-01-16 11:15:47 AM  

Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]


French Guiana is an integral part of the French Republic. It's not a separate country or colony or anything. It uses the Euro, etc.
 
DVD
2021-01-16 11:20:05 AM  
So our surveillance satellites suddenly won't work now?   Because I doubt we've retired those, and there is better tech today than 20 years ago for monitoring Russian military activity from space.  Granted, they'd be better spent on China's activities.

And again, there's Putin's long-term 4-D chess idiocy coming to the fore again.  China is Russia's existential threat.  If he hadn't set Russia as adversarial toward NATO, there could be intelligence sharing.  Instead Russia has to remain blind to whatever the CCP has in mind for Siberia.

The nukes are Russia's only card against China.  The PLA is certainly working on how to take them out of the equation.
 
2021-01-16 11:31:36 AM  

DVD: So our surveillance satellites suddenly won't work now?   Because I doubt we've retired those, and there is better tech today than 20 years ago for monitoring Russian military activity from space.  Granted, they'd be better spent on China's activities.

And again, there's Putin's long-term 4-D chess idiocy coming to the fore again.  China is Russia's existential threat.  If he hadn't set Russia as adversarial toward NATO, there could be intelligence sharing.  Instead Russia has to remain blind to whatever the CCP has in mind for Siberia.

The nukes are Russia's only card against China.  The PLA is certainly working on how to take them out of the equation.


So Trump expanded spy satellites?  Or is this just a BS justification of idiocy?
 
2021-01-16 11:36:04 AM  

KarmicDisaster: A better deal....... FOR PUTIN!


Well, Trump  did assure us that he was going to get a better deal.
 
2021-01-16 11:44:48 AM  
Open Sky, Insert Kiss.
 
2021-01-16 11:51:49 AM  
I bet Putin isn't getting sick of all this winning.
 
2021-01-16 12:24:28 PM  

CheatCommando: Sum Dum Gai: Yeah, just like that better Iran nuclear deal that we'll see aaaaaaaany day now...

And the health plan.

And he seems to run out the clock on infrastructure week too.


Well at least México paid for the wall!
 
2021-01-16 12:41:11 PM  

CheatCommando: fallingcow: Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]

French Guyana is included because the French remain pretty serious about the whole "no, really, France Outre-Mer is farking French, damnit"

/ guess the Falklands aren't included, for Britain?

I participate over on Quora in the military history spaces. The butthurt the Argentines show to this day Has led me to conclude that if Fawlty Towers ever comes back, they can replace the episode about the Germans with one about the Argentines.

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!


Which one, the Malvinas or the Faulklands?
 
2021-01-16 12:56:05 PM  

DVD: So our surveillance satellites suddenly won't work now?   Because I doubt we've retired those, and there is better tech today than 20 years ago for monitoring Russian military activity from space.


This treaty wasn't about that. Hasn't been for decades. Instead, it was about letting Russia know that we knew what they were up to. "We're going to fly over Blyatograd on Wednesday."

Or maybe we're working an asset, and we somehow need them to appear connected, so you have them tell their people that we're going to request an Open Skies flight over Blyatograd, and then we request it in a few days. Or so on.

It's all about the spy game, sure. The cameras aren't the important part, though.

Now, imagine trying to explain a nuanced concept like the to someone like Trump, when he's got Putin- who wanted out of the treaty- in his other ear occasionally mentioning what Russia saw on an Open Skies flight. If you're Trump, you're not thinking that he might not be telling the truth. All you're hearing is that Russia is getting information this way, and America isn't. So of course you pull out of the treaty, because it doesn't benefit you.
 
2021-01-16 12:59:40 PM  
Well of course Dotard only has about 2000 words in his vocabulary and one of them is "deal"
 
2021-01-16 1:00:55 PM  

CheatCommando: fallingcow: Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]

French Guyana is included because the French remain pretty serious about the whole "no, really, France Outre-Mer is farking French, damnit"

/ guess the Falklands aren't included, for Britain?

I participate over on Quora in the military history spaces. The butthurt the Argentines show to this day Has led me to conclude that if Fawlty Towers ever comes back, they can replace the episode about the Germans with one about the Argentines.

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!


That episode had my favourite exchange of the series:

Customer: "Stop talking about the war!"
Basil: "You started it!"
Customer: "No we didn't!"
Basil: "Yes you did, you invaded Poland!"
 
2021-01-16 1:01:52 PM  

CheatCommando: fallingcow: Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]

French Guyana is included because the French remain pretty serious about the whole "no, really, France Outre-Mer is farking French, damnit"

/ guess the Falklands aren't included, for Britain?

I participate over on Quora in the military history spaces. The butthurt the Argentines show to this day Has led me to conclude that if Fawlty Towers ever comes back, they can replace the episode about the Germans with one about the Argentines.

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!


I remember reading in a book one time that Argentina only joined the Allied in like the last week of WWII and prior to that belonged to the Axis. I tried to put this on Wikipedia multiple times but they kept deleting it. True as ever but people like to white wash history.
 
2021-01-16 1:29:47 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: That treaty was obsolete anyway.  Nobody needs to use spy planes anymore when you can count a guy's nose hair by satellite.


I could explain in too many details why this is dumb, but it requires math.

Hint #1 : width of the scan path for a bird in orbit is only a **classified** number of miles wide.
Hint #2 : Even with high inclination and "egg shaped" orbits there are many **classified** hours and in some cases **classified** days between paths over the same area, even with multiple birds.
Hint #3: Anyone who cares and has a pocket calculator and a telescope, or even just an Internet connections knows where every bird is and when there are "closed windows" over any particular area on the planet.

After 34 years I am now allowed to say "talent" and "keyhole" in the same sentence without going to jail.

Fun fact #1 - satellites are in the sky, not on the ground looking up. Study it out.

Fun fact #2 - There's a reason you can't actually read a license plate from space. They are not flat on the ground.
 
DVD
2021-01-16 2:53:39 PM  

Gonz: DVD: So our surveillance satellites suddenly won't work now?   Because I doubt we've retired those, and there is better tech today than 20 years ago for monitoring Russian military activity from space.

This treaty wasn't about that. Hasn't been for decades. Instead, it was about letting Russia know that we knew what they were up to. "We're going to fly over Blyatograd on Wednesday."

Or maybe we're working an asset, and we somehow need them to appear connected, so you have them tell their people that we're going to request an Open Skies flight over Blyatograd, and then we request it in a few days. Or so on.

It's all about the spy game, sure. The cameras aren't the important part, though.

Now, imagine trying to explain a nuanced concept like the to someone like Trump, when he's got Putin- who wanted out of the treaty- in his other ear occasionally mentioning what Russia saw on an Open Skies flight. If you're Trump, you're not thinking that he might not be telling the truth. All you're hearing is that Russia is getting information this way, and America isn't. So of course you pull out of the treaty, because it doesn't benefit you.


________

Was China ever a part of the treaty?  Because that would have benefited Russia.

I feel that we'd get much better information from a better spy sat network.  But I'm the loon that thinks North Korea, Taiwan and Mongolia should become U.S. states or territories.  I imagine the CCP doesn't think highly of my thoughts.

Fark might not either, but Fark has folks that would love to have Trump for 4 more years, in exchange for a chance to convict Bush, so what have you?
 
2021-01-16 3:24:18 PM  

Slide10000: CheatCommando: fallingcow: Hyjamon: the open skies treaty was important to Europe?  Thought it was just between Russia and US

*does research*

Ok, so basically just Canada and Europe are left in it, and what looks like French Guiana in South America

[Fark user image image 450x231]

French Guyana is included because the French remain pretty serious about the whole "no, really, France Outre-Mer is farking French, damnit"

/ guess the Falklands aren't included, for Britain?

I participate over on Quora in the military history spaces. The butthurt the Argentines show to this day Has led me to conclude that if Fawlty Towers ever comes back, they can replace the episode about the Germans with one about the Argentines.

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!

That episode had my favourite exchange of the series:

Customer: "Stop talking about the war!"
Basil: "You started it!"
Customer: "No we didn't!"
Basil: "Yes you did, you invaded Poland!"


It's my second favorite. My favorite is the one with the woman who won't turn on her hearing aid because it wears down the batteries, so he just speaks silently as she turns it up and up and then he screams into it.
 
2021-01-16 4:51:13 PM  

Alphax: Putin's idea, I'm sure.  Donnie knows nothing about treaties, and doesn't care what laws he breaks in the first place.


This doesn't benefit Russia at all. The US has significantly better surveillance technology with satellites. This hurts russia far more since now they have no legal method of gathering surveillance over the US landmass.

So why would they want to give the US this advantage?
 
2021-01-16 5:46:43 PM  
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