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(The New York Times)   How 'The Turner Diaries' incites white supremacists when half of them can't even read "Make America Great Again"   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, White supremacy, National Alliance, The Turner Diaries, Terrorism, Racism, Oklahoma City bombing, The Order, Race  
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842 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jan 2021 at 1:23 PM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-14 8:29:51 AM  
William Pierce was an utterly shiat writer whose closest modern counterpart, skill-wise, would be Stephanie Meyer. "The Turner Diaries'" greatest sin isn't its stupid, over-the-top racism and correspondent white supremacy, it's that it's a terribly written book. The people who find it in any way inspiring are cut from the same mold as people who litter their Facebook feed with "inspirational" memes that show things like a mountain range and dare ask, "What's stopping you? Nothing." Simpletons all, but dangerous when motivated by a skilled demagogue precisely because of their bland stupidity.
 
2021-01-14 8:35:31 AM  
It's a bad piece of literature on pretty much every level.

I Read The Most Hateful Book Ever Written
Youtube 67Rg8V4g3ak
 
2021-01-14 9:14:35 AM  
The Turner Diaries is right wing talk radio in writing. Stupid, insane nonsense that plays to the fears of ignorant and sociopathic white people to make them angry and potentially violent but most importantly easy to control.
 
2021-01-14 10:27:47 AM  
The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.

These are shiat books for shiat people, but making them hard to find adds a mystique that they didn't earn and don't deserve. I'd like to think that quite a few curious people--especially young people--who've bought them or picked them up over the years have found them to be boring or stupid or both, and moved on with their curiosity satisfied.
 
2021-01-14 11:16:32 AM  
CSB time:

A good many years ago I'm with my high school girlfriend and her dumbarse brother, and we stop in at a big flea market for some reason or another.  Girlfriend is off looking at cat pottery or something and dumbarse and I are browsing at a table with a bunch of knives and military surplus-type stuff.  For books, the guy also has a few random old welll-worn WWII histories and a whole box of (you guessed it) new copies of The Turner Diaries for sale.  I ask him what's with that book, and he gives a rambling description that I don't recall being at all racist but I do recall including stuff about how it's "banned by the government" and "the big corporations don't want you to read this".  Now 16-year-old me is mildly intrigued by knowledge "banned by the government" but not enough to part with a whole ten dollars for it.  We're about to walk away, and he say "tell you what guys, you can have these on me, just promise that when you've read them to pass them on to your friends" and gives us each a copy for free.  I skim through it later, and it's quickly obvious as to both how poorly written and completely pants-on-head-genocidal-racist it is.  While I definitely perceive it as some scary Nazi shiat, it doesn't raise all the red flags it should have because, hey, we beat the Nazis, and they're all dead and gone, and the only time I'd ever seen/heard of somebody wearing a swastika was a skinhead at a punk rock show that got his face turned to hamburger by a bouncer, and then got arrested (also this was before the OKC bombing).  I chalk it up to just some crazy-ass-flea-market-people-shiat and promptly forget about it.

Several months after that, I'm at school and get a random out-of-the blue summons to the principal's office, which completely confuses me.  Even more confusing, is that when I get there, it's not just the principal, by also Mr. X, my favorite history teacher, and another woman in a power suit that I vaguely recognize as some district-level assistant superintendent type.  They show me a copy of the book, and start asking all sorts of questions - did I know what it was, did I ever have one, where did I get it, did I give it to anybody, etc.  I (mostly) tell them truth, except for one part where I say that I had burned it instead of forgetting about it in a pile of stuff in the back of my closet.  They're convinced enough by my story and Mr X likes me because I did well in his class (he also happens to be a WWII vet who fought in Europe) and thankfully they leave it at that and don't bother to call my parents.  When I get home, under the pretense of cleaning my room and disposing of old papers and school work and such, I toss it in the burn barrel out back and ensure, page by page, that it's completely reduced to ash.

I find out sometime later that it had come to the attention to the school authorities because my GF's dumbarse brother had an English reading assignment where they could pick any book they wanted, provided it was either on a list of suggested books or submitted to the teacher beforehand for review.  Dumbarse brother (you guessed it) actually wanted to do a book report on The Turner Diaries.  He got in a fair bit of hot water for it, including being assigned Elie Weisel's Night for that book report, and other other specifically-chosen books for later assignments.  I have no idea what dumbarse is up to these days, but I'm still in occasional contact with the sister, and I know that they became estranged some years ago and would not be at all surprised if it were because he never learned his lesson back in high school about Nazis.

End CSB:

Long story short, like TFA says, in the before times when the internet was not widespread, people (including somebody I knew) were very much actively recruited into Nazism by that book and sketchy dudes at flea markets who looked like this:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 11:28:55 AM  
Doesn't the Turner diaries end in the "protagonist" killing all the people he hates in an orgy of violence and burning everything down, the end? It's the insecure Incel guy's version of chicklit that ends at the altar and goes no further. These guys never have a plan for what to do after they kill everyone they hate. They think the act of killing and burning will solve all their problems.

Yeah I used to see that stupid book at gun shows.
Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 1:25:49 PM  
static01.nyt.comView Full Size


Oh hi guys. You MAGA supporters want to join me?
 
2021-01-14 1:28:18 PM  
So pretty much "Birth of a Nation" except 60 years later.
 
2021-01-14 1:28:26 PM  
I read Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter".  The philosophy of the Manson Family, Helter Skelter, was the Turner Diaries combined with Revelations.
 
2021-01-14 1:29:11 PM  

Forty-Three: CSB time:

A good many years ago I'm with my high school girlfriend and her dumbarse brother, and we stop in at a big flea market for some reason or another.  Girlfriend is off looking at cat pottery or something and dumbarse and I are browsing at a table with a bunch of knives and military surplus-type stuff.  For books, the guy also has a few random old welll-worn WWII histories and a whole box of (you guessed it) new copies of The Turner Diaries for sale.  I ask him what's with that book, and he gives a rambling description that I don't recall being at all racist but I do recall including stuff about how it's "banned by the government" and "the big corporations don't want you to read this".  Now 16-year-old me is mildly intrigued by knowledge "banned by the government" but not enough to part with a whole ten dollars for it.  We're about to walk away, and he say "tell you what guys, you can have these on me, just promise that when you've read them to pass them on to your friends" and gives us each a copy for free.  I skim through it later, and it's quickly obvious as to both how poorly written and completely pants-on-head-genocidal-racist it is.  While I definitely perceive it as some scary Nazi shiat, it doesn't raise all the red flags it should have because, hey, we beat the Nazis, and they're all dead and gone, and the only time I'd ever seen/heard of somebody wearing a swastika was a skinhead at a punk rock show that got his face turned to hamburger by a bouncer, and then got arrested (also this was before the OKC bombing).  I chalk it up to just some crazy-ass-flea-market-people-shiat and promptly forget about it.

Several months after that, I'm at school and get a random out-of-the blue summons to the principal's office, which completely confuses me.  Even more confusing, is that when I get there, it's not just the principal, by also Mr. X, my favorite history teacher, and another woman in a power suit that I vaguely recognize as some district-level assistant superintendent type.  They show me a copy of the book, and start asking all sorts of questions - did I know what it was, did I ever have one, where did I get it, did I give it to anybody, etc.  I (mostly) tell them truth, except for one part where I say that I had burned it instead of forgetting about it in a pile of stuff in the back of my closet.  They're convinced enough by my story and Mr X likes me because I did well in his class (he also happens to be a WWII vet who fought in Europe) and thankfully they leave it at that and don't bother to call my parents.  When I get home, under the pretense of cleaning my room and disposing of old papers and school work and such, I toss it in the burn barrel out back and ensure, page by page, that it's completely reduced to ash.

I find out sometime later that it had come to the attention to the school authorities because my GF's dumbarse brother had an English reading assignment where they could pick any book they wanted, provided it was either on a list of suggested books or submitted to the teacher beforehand for review.  Dumbarse brother (you guessed it) actually wanted to do a book report on The Turner Diaries.  He got in a fair bit of hot water for it, including being assigned Elie Weisel's Night for that book report, and other other specifically-chosen books for later assignments.  I have no idea what dumbarse is up to these days, but I'm still in occasional contact with the sister, and I know that they became estranged some years ago and would not be at all surprised if it were because he never learned his lesson back in high school about Nazis.

End CSB:

Long story short, like TFA says, in the before times when the internet was not widespread, people (including somebody I knew) were very much actively recruited into Nazism by that book and sketchy dudes at flea markets who looked like this:

[Fark user image image 256x197]


Those sketchy dudes at flea markets moved to gun shows.

Yay for progress, I guess?
 
2021-01-14 1:29:23 PM  
The Turner Diaries was the icing.  Decades of Fox News and education cuts was the cake.
 
2021-01-14 1:29:54 PM  
I read The Turner Diaries shortly after the OKC bombing purely out of curiosity.  I've read some farked up stuff in my life but that's the only book where I really felt physically ill while reading it.
 
2021-01-14 1:32:29 PM  
Boy do we ever need to stop assuming that the movers and shakers in events like January 6th are the stupid ones...
 
2021-01-14 1:34:58 PM  
Just googled the Turner Diaries...

😬

I can only imagine what turns up in your recommended purchases once you order a copy of that off Amazon.
 
2021-01-14 1:37:23 PM  

Garza and the Supermutants: The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.


Huh.  I worked at a mall bookstore in the '90s and we didn't carry any of those.
We did carry Behold A Pale Horse and we could not keep copies on the shelves.  Young black men in particular ate it up.
 
2021-01-14 1:42:45 PM  
Damn, all these cool old time book stories. Wanna hear mine? In the early 2000s as a teen I was trying to buy manga at Waldenbooks. The cashier saw the age restriction on the back and commented that she should start checking kids ids. I told her there was no such law on selling books to minors (maybe magazines but not books that I was aware of) like there was on movies or games and she could not deny the purchase to me.

Not sure if that was correct, but I wanted my mature rated Battle Royale manga.
 
2021-01-14 1:44:34 PM  

Forty-Three: CSB time:

A good many years ago I'm with my high...


So public officials were grilling you about your reading habits?
 
2021-01-14 1:49:51 PM  

Target Builder: Just googled the Turner Diaries...

😬

I can only imagine what turns up in your recommended purchases once you order a copy of that off Amazon.


I can only imagine the ads you're going to see for months now. You have my sympathies in advance.
 
2021-01-14 1:50:47 PM  
If it wasn't for Turner Diary fanfics, I would've never known how many Nazis secretly have a fetish for interracial gangbangs.
 
2021-01-14 1:53:51 PM  

Cheron: Forty-Three: CSB time:

A good many years ago I'm with my high...

So public officials were grilling you about your reading habits?


You'd think they'd be happy that a kid was reading anything.
 
2021-01-14 1:54:28 PM  
Some excerpts of the book were required reading in a poly sci course I took in college. The prof didn't want us buying the book (and thus supporting the publisher), and he didn't want 100-plus students walking around campus with the book, so he photocopied the few pages we needed to read and passed those out.

I recall it being written at about a 6th grade level.
 
2021-01-14 1:59:33 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 2:02:27 PM  

UltimaCS: If it wasn't for Turner Diary fanfics, I would've never known how many Nazis secretly have a fetish for interracial gangbangs.


Wait what?

Seriously. I read passages of that book and they were really into putting interracial kids on cattle cars to oblivion.
 
2021-01-14 2:03:59 PM  

EBN-OZN: Some excerpts of the book were required reading in a poly sci course I took in college. The prof didn't want us buying the book (and thus supporting the publisher), and he didn't want 100-plus students walking around campus with the book, so he photocopied the few pages we needed to read and passed those out.

I recall it being written at about a 6th grade level.


They had an interview with the author of the Turner Diaries in this documentary I saw about the Oklahoma City bombing. This guy was no kind of genius.
 
2021-01-14 2:04:23 PM  
I'll Admit as a social scientist by training with a degree in a related field, I've been curious to read it from a scholarly perspective to see what is so compelling about it. But i don't want to add myself to any more lists than I'm probably already on and/or start getting neonazi literature in the mail.
 
2021-01-14 2:05:31 PM  

Pocket Ninja: William Pierce was an utterly shiat writer whose closest modern counterpart, skill-wise, would be Stephanie Meyer. "The Turner Diaries'" greatest sin isn't its stupid, over-the-top racism and correspondent white supremacy, it's that it's a terribly written book. The people who find it in any way inspiring are cut from the same mold as people who litter their Facebook feed with "inspirational" memes that show things like a mountain range and dare ask, "What's stopping you? Nothing." Simpletons all, but dangerous when motivated by a skilled demagogue precisely because of their bland stupidity.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 2:10:32 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Garza and the Supermutants: The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.

Huh.  I worked at a mall bookstore in the '90s and we didn't carry any of those.
We did carry Behold A Pale Horse and we could not keep copies on the shelves.  Young black men in particular ate it up.


I have a copy of that. Talk about hard to read. Rambling, unorganized, incoherent mess.

It could probably make for interesting reading if you can sift through the word salad.
 
2021-01-14 2:11:03 PM  
I downloaded The Turner Diaries sometime around 1999 because hey, it was banned in Canada so of course if the government didn't want me to have it, well that's a temptation that can't be ignored!

Never did get around to reading it, and based on the reviews here it looks like it would've been a waste of time anyway.
 
2021-01-14 2:17:32 PM  
Hey now, let's not forget "Unintended Consequences" in there.  Slashfic for the far-right.
 
2021-01-14 2:18:20 PM  

Pocket Ninja: William Pierce was an utterly shiat writer whose closest modern counterpart, skill-wise, would be Stephanie Meyer. "The Turner Diaries'" greatest sin isn't its stupid, over-the-top racism and correspondent white supremacy, it's that it's a terribly written book. The people who find it in any way inspiring are cut from the same mold as people who litter their Facebook feed with "inspirational" memes that show things like a mountain range and dare ask, "What's stopping you? Nothing." Simpletons all, but dangerous when motivated by a skilled demagogue precisely because of their bland stupidity.


I landed with a racist roommate back in the early 2000s (no, I didn't know he was racist ahead of time) so I read his copies of both The Turner diaries and Hunter. Its poorly written fantasy porn for facists.
 
2021-01-14 2:19:29 PM  

Pocket Ninja: William Pierce was an utterly shiat writer whose closest modern counterpart, skill-wise, would be Stephanie Meyer.


That's unfair to Meyer, or anyone else who isn't writing small-press pro-genocide drivel. Meyer has many well-documented flaws, but she isn't arguing on behalf of ethnic cleansing via nuclear weapons.

The closest thing might be Ben Shapiro's novel True Allegiance.
 
Ant
2021-01-14 2:21:22 PM  

incendi: It's a bad piece of literature on pretty much every level.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/67Rg8V4g​3ak?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Subscribed.
 
2021-01-14 2:22:28 PM  

TheDarkSaintOfGin: I'll Admit as a social scientist by training with a degree in a related field, I've been curious to read it from a scholarly perspective to see what is so compelling about it. But i don't want to add myself to any more lists than I'm probably already on and/or start getting neonazi literature in the mail.


It was written before the internet allowed anyone to post fanfic. It was probably pretty novel for the time
 
2021-01-14 2:26:12 PM  

Cheron: Forty-Three: CSB time:

A good many years ago I'm with my high...

So public officials were grilling you about your reading habits?


I wouldn't exactly put it like that.  I suspect they were (among other things) largely concerned about the "pass it on to your friends" part of the story.  If I'd really felt like being an arrogant little shiat, I probably could have said something like "I know my rights and what I read on my own time, off of school property, is none of your damn business narc, so suck it".  For that, I likely would not have had any punishment, just warning never to bring it to, or promote it on, school property.  What almost certainly would have happened, would have been a warning to my parents (whose reaction would have been, uh, bad) and some stern disapproval from Mr. X, a personal hero of mine, who himself took a shrapnel would fighting Nazis in Europe and saw the camps for himself.  Girlfriend's dumbarse brother did, in fact, try such a defense, but since his use of the book was on school property, and included an attempt to introduce it as course material & write a report that would be presented to other students, that defense...didn't work.

Keep in mind that this was back in a time when people were getting in trouble for carrying around D&D books.  I myself had an over-zealous teacher try to report me when she saw me with a 2nd edition players handbook, filling our a character sheet during free library period.  Fortunately, the principal was an ok guy, and not a satanic-panic nutter, who supposedly told said teacher not to waste his time with stupid bullshiat.
 
2021-01-14 2:29:07 PM  
I haven't read The Turner Diaries, but I have read a lot of right-wing trash because I'm really interested in conspiracy culture. Not as a believer, but as a skeptic and for entertainment. Most of it is SO bad.

I also really love post-apocalyptic fiction and "collapse" fiction. People trying to survive while society collapses or after it has collapsed? That stuff is right in my wheelhouse.

So about 10 years ago I discovered a book series that is all about government collapse, small groups fighting for survival, piecing together a new nation, etc. This is all subject matter for fiction that is right up my alley. (The name of the series escapes me, but it was something like 20+ books long, by some author with 100+ books.)

Looked perfect for me.

Holy SHIAT, it was the most cringey right-wing masturbation fodder I've ever read. Like, just over the top fantasizing about finally being able to go out and shoot liberals, lots of dog whistles and barely masked racism, terribly written speeches spouting extreme right-wing ideology, and on and on and on. The whole book was basically just about "patriots" having an excuse to overthrow the government, shoot black people and hippies, and start a new society where women serve you in the kitchen and you get to shoot people you don't like.

I was dumbfounded.

And there were LOADS of books in the series! The guy had a long career, so people must have been reading this crap.

Easy to see how someone reading this masturbatory fantasy stuff for years would come to hope the day would really come when they get to live out what was in the book.

Needless to say, I did not keep reading the series.
 
2021-01-14 2:40:13 PM  
I was a book nerd in my teens. If it was restricted/hard to find/banned, then I simply had to read it. Mein Kampf, Satanic bible, occult stuff.

Eventually I came to the conclusion that life is too short for shiatty literature. Turner Diaries is a good litmus test for stupid.
 
2021-01-14 2:49:36 PM  

shoegaze99: I also really love post-apocalyptic fiction and "collapse" fiction.


What's love got to do with it?
 
2021-01-14 2:57:03 PM  
In most of their peer groups, there's always a "smart" one who can read at an elementary level, at least. That one explains it to the others.

Plus, YouTube, which very obviously doesn't require that someone be literate in order to use it.
 
2021-01-14 3:00:04 PM  
Is Hunter scarier
contrast to The Turner Diaries, Pierce decided to write a "more realistic novel, Hunter, which shifted away from the idea of an organized group to what an exceptional individual can do. Hunter "serves a real educational process."
 
2021-01-14 3:03:23 PM  
"As a bookseller, we think it is important to offer this infamous work because of its historical significance and educational role in the understanding and prevention of racism and acts of terrorism,"

If that were true it would be sold in scholarly form, with commentary and addenda.

Instead:
Before it was removed from Amazon, "The Turner Diaries" had received hundreds of five-star reviews from readers extolling its message. One edition that was previously for sale, at $24, was published by National Vanguard Books, the publishing operation of a white nationalist group.

Spreading hate and financing terrorists for profit.

I remember after 9/11 all those bullshiat PSAs about "If you buy pot you're financing terrorists which is the same as being one" but when a goddamn billionaire funds terrorists that's just "good business"
 
2021-01-14 3:18:03 PM  

Jaws_Victim: Damn, all these cool old time book stories. Wanna hear mine? In the early 2000s as a teen I was trying to buy manga at Waldenbooks. The cashier saw the age restriction on the back and commented that she should start checking kids ids. I told her there was no such law on selling books to minors (maybe magazines but not books that I was aware of) like there was on movies or games and she could not deny the purchase to me.

Not sure if that was correct, but I wanted my mature rated Battle Royale manga.


Lol waldenbooks. Didja have fun in your JNCO jeans and your spice girls in your mall in an era that predates Emo culture?

/its all old. I miss any book store these days.
//we re all so old.
///got told last week by a 23 year old new grad that " you don't understand, you're over 25. You're old."
////I thought I still had time. I THOUGHT THERE WAS STILL TIME
 
2021-01-14 3:47:58 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Garza and the Supermutants: The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.

Huh.  I worked at a mall bookstore in the '90s and we didn't carry any of those.
We did carry Behold A Pale Horse and we could not keep copies on the shelves.  Young black men in particular ate it up.


My store was out here in Nevada around the same time, when Art Bell was on the air. There was a call for some of the more extreme stuff. I never got around to Behold a Pale Horse. IIRC the cover back then that was painting of a pegasus and a skeleton and looked to be straight out of a 14 year old's discarded scrapbook
 
2021-01-14 4:22:55 PM  

shoegaze99: I haven't read The Turner Diaries, but I have read a lot of right-wing trash because I'm really interested in conspiracy culture. Not as a believer, but as a skeptic and for entertainment. Most of it is SO bad.

I also really love post-apocalyptic fiction and "collapse" fiction. People trying to survive while society collapses or after it has collapsed? That stuff is right in my wheelhouse.

So about 10 years ago I discovered a book series that is all about government collapse, small groups fighting for survival, piecing together a new nation, etc. This is all subject matter for fiction that is right up my alley. (The name of the series escapes me, but it was something like 20+ books long, by some author with 100+ books.)

Looked perfect for me.

Holy SHIAT, it was the most cringey right-wing masturbation fodder I've ever read. Like, just over the top fantasizing about finally being able to go out and shoot liberals, lots of dog whistles and barely masked racism, terribly written speeches spouting extreme right-wing ideology, and on and on and on. The whole book was basically just about "patriots" having an excuse to overthrow the government, shoot black people and hippies, and start a new society where women serve you in the kitchen and you get to shoot people you don't like.

I was dumbfounded.

And there were LOADS of books in the series! The guy had a long career, so people must have been reading this crap.

Easy to see how someone reading this masturbatory fantasy stuff for years would come to hope the day would really come when they get to live out what was in the book.

Needless to say, I did not keep reading the series.


I would think it would be easier to list post-apocalyptic books of the 'small band of survivalist' ilk that aren't escapist masturbation for deplorables of one sort or another. That's kind of the point of the genre: 'I could be a hero and get all the girls if society weren't holding me down!'.
 
2021-01-14 4:27:51 PM  
So I understand why Amazon pulled it, but it's not like it's hard to find on the internet. It is a very dumb book, but the article makes it sound like it brainwashes. I think that lets off the assholes who agree with it a little easily. The people who read the Turner Diaries and think 'I should go kill me some Jews and ni*bong*s' probably already thought that before they read the dumb Nazi fanfic.
 
2021-01-14 5:06:34 PM  

Pocket Ninja: William Pierce was an utterly shiat writer whose closest modern counterpart, skill-wise, would be Stephanie Meyer. "The Turner Diaries'" greatest sin isn't its stupid, over-the-top racism and correspondent white supremacy, it's that it's a terribly written book. The people who find it in any way inspiring are cut from the same mold as people who litter their Facebook feed with "inspirational" memes that show things like a mountain range and dare ask, "What's stopping you? Nothing." Simpletons all, but dangerous when motivated by a skilled demagogue precisely because of their bland stupidity.


Trump weaponized the stupidity of his base.

The next 2 years are going to be really touchy; statehouses are overwhelming Republican right now and they have a very solid chance of taking back the House in 2022.

Heck, the Dems only have 7 vote majority right now!

If the Republicans held Congress, Trump might just have pulled off this whole stunt. And there sure wouldn't have had an impeachment. We'd be having a closed session where the Republicans would invalidate the whole elections

We are breathing a sigh of relief today, but we are much, much closer to collapse than most people realize.
 
2021-01-14 5:33:30 PM  

Garza and the Supermutants: Rev. Skarekroe: Garza and the Supermutants: The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.

Huh.  I worked at a mall bookstore in the '90s and we didn't carry any of those.
We did carry Behold A Pale Horse and we could not keep copies on the shelves.  Young black men in particular ate it up.

My store was out here in Nevada around the same time, when Art Bell was on the air. There was a call for some of the more extreme stuff. I never got around to Behold a Pale Horse. IIRC the cover back then that was painting of a pegasus and a skeleton and looked to be straight out of a 14 year old's discarded scrapbook


That's the one.  It contains a complete reprint of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (though author William Cooper is quick to declare that you should mentally replace every occurrence of "Jew" with "Illuminati").  Cooper went out Ruby Ridge style in a shootout with sheriffs raiding his house.
 
2021-01-14 5:56:00 PM  

BoothbyTCD: I would think it would be easier to list post-apocalyptic books of the 'small band of survivalist' ilk that aren't escapist masturbation for deplorables of one sort or another.


Nah, not at all. There are tons and tons and tons of speculative fiction and sci-fi books that don't at all reflect this kind of thinking, many of them classics of the genre. Earth Abides, The Road, The Stand, Alas Babylon, and countless others. It's easy to make a long list of works in the subgenre that have no resemblance to right-wing fantasizing.

Hell, some of it is downright progressive, dealing with the danger of the military industrial complex, race relations, social inequities, religious indoctrination, and more.
 
2021-01-14 7:22:49 PM  

Garza and the Supermutants: The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.

These are shiat books for shiat people, but making them hard to find adds a mystique that they didn't earn and don't deserve. I'd like to think that quite a few curious people--especially young people--who've bought them or picked them up over the years have found them to be boring or stupid or both, and moved on with their curiosity satisfied.


I agree, I have an epub, and you can also get it here. It's trash.

https://archive.org/details/TurnerDia​r​ies
 
2021-01-14 8:02:00 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Garza and the Supermutants: Rev. Skarekroe: Garza and the Supermutants: The mall book store I managed when I was younger carried Mein Kampf, Turner Diaries and the Anarchist Cookbook. One copy of each always sat on the shelves, unless or until someone stole it, in which case the missing copy would be replaced after the next inventory cycle.

Huh.  I worked at a mall bookstore in the '90s and we didn't carry any of those.
We did carry Behold A Pale Horse and we could not keep copies on the shelves.  Young black men in particular ate it up.

My store was out here in Nevada around the same time, when Art Bell was on the air. There was a call for some of the more extreme stuff. I never got around to Behold a Pale Horse. IIRC the cover back then that was painting of a pegasus and a skeleton and looked to be straight out of a 14 year old's discarded scrapbook

That's the one.  It contains a complete reprint of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (though author William Cooper is quick to declare that you should mentally replace every occurrence of "Jew" with "Illuminati").  Cooper went out Ruby Ridge style in a shootout with sheriffs raiding his house.


I did not know that about Cooper! Also weird how Vonnegut's young black inmates in Hocus Pocus were obsessed with the Protocols. I had assumed that Vonnegut had made that up from whole cloth, but there's no reason why he couldn't have based it on reality. I wonder if there was a connection with that and your young customers with Behold a Pale Horse.
 
2021-01-14 8:06:49 PM  

TheDarkSaintOfGin: I'll Admit as a social scientist by training with a degree in a related field, I've been curious to read it from a scholarly perspective to see what is so compelling about it. But i don't want to add myself to any more lists than I'm probably already on and/or start getting neonazi literature in the mail.


Internet archive, epub.
 
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