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(KRQE News)   Boy Scout will not get his snow cave badge   (krqe.com) divider line
    More: Sad, United States, New Mexico, Conejos County sheriff's office, Scouting, LOS ALAMOS, Boy Scout, Sheriff, Josh Miko  
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4345 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2021 at 12:53 AM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-13 10:10:22 PM  
 I lost a few fellow scouts in the 70s.
Things happen.
Glad to be alive, and that is a sad tale.
 
2021-01-14 12:56:24 AM  
How very sad.

I wonder if they might award him anything posthumously?

/far too young
 
2021-01-14 12:57:35 AM  
shiat, when I was a Scout that could have been me.  We loved sleeping in snow caves.  It was funner than shiat

My heart goes out to his family, friends, and troop.
 
2021-01-14 12:59:04 AM  
Watch out where the huskies, and polar bears, go.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 12:59:35 AM  
Built igloos when I was a kid and lived to tell the tale.  Was a scout leader for many years and never built a snow shelter in that time, but some of the ones I saw other troops build were a bit frightening.  It's not hard to build one correctly, but it's also really easy to build one that will kill you in your sleep, and the your muffled screams will never be heard through the snow.
 
2021-01-14 1:03:27 AM  

vudukungfu: I lost a few fellow scouts in the 70s.
Things happen.
Glad to be alive, and that is a sad tale.


You were a terrible scoutmaster.
 
2021-01-14 1:07:21 AM  
I grew up in that area of CO and was caught in two avalanches and one collapsed snow cave. it is much crappier than you would think. when you are stuck in packed snow you literally cannot move and can barely breathe. it is panic inducing.
yay for the friends that dug me out. but for their grace go I.
 
2021-01-14 1:11:32 AM  
There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?
 
2021-01-14 1:11:33 AM  

BafflerMeal: vudukungfu: I lost a few fellow scouts in the 70s.
Things happen.
Glad to be alive, and that is a sad tale.

You were a terrible scoutmaster.


A good scoutmaster never leaves his scout's behind.
 
2021-01-14 1:17:02 AM  

MBooda: BafflerMeal: vudukungfu: I lost a few fellow scouts in the 70s.
Things happen.
Glad to be alive, and that is a sad tale.

You were a terrible scoutmaster.

A good scoutmaster never leaves his scout's behind.


And now I'm wiping a mouthful of beer off the floor. Thanks, pal.

/I really needed that laugh, you magnificent bastard
 
2021-01-14 1:17:11 AM  

WoodyHayes: There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?


Related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasan​t​_Hill_bus_tragedy ?
 
2021-01-14 1:22:31 AM  
Kinda glad I lived too far away from snow country for that to be an option when I was a scout.  We had a pretty biatchin' camp in the mountains but we did our stuff in spring and summer.  It was also used for "Science Camp" by nearby schools during jr. high.  One of my friends saw his first boobs at that camp when a girl's tube top malfunctioned.
 
2021-01-14 1:39:16 AM  
Many years ago I built a snow cave with some people in a snow camping class. Took forever, got several layers of clothes wet. It was about 3 feet high inside but by the morning it was only 2 feet high. Dunno, think it the standard snow pit shelter with boughs on top might be safer and easier to dig out.
 
2021-01-14 1:40:10 AM  
Funny, I was a scout in AK, never built a snow cave with them. Built a bunch on my own. More like snow bunkers that were apart of huge sprawling trench system along a sled luge course. I think the trick is to dig them shallow enough that you'd be able to break out if they collapsed. Seems ppl don't know that snow is heavy AF. After several snows, they'd have a lot of weight on them, but we cleared them off, and they were always small domes, just big enough for a kid or two.
Kinda miss deep snow. Sucks that a kid died sleeping in one.
 
2021-01-14 1:44:30 AM  
🤕
Electricity.
Buildings.
Gas.
And on an on, was made for a reason. Yeah. Yeah. What if something happens? Yada yada yada yada.
Well something happened alright. And it wasn't a emergency. It was chosen.
And it costed a life. And all the sads don't undo the choice to risk your life and die.
It's like innovation and advances are done for fun. Not because before those innovations people just died regularly. Even trained  people with a plan died regularly.
But. I guess he died doing what he loved.
🙄🥃
 
2021-01-14 1:51:25 AM  

Prof. Frink: WoodyHayes: There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?

Related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant​_Hill_bus_tragedy ?


WTF?
Small stove for heat? In a building!
Was left for weather so cold walking in it kill someone in just 3 miles.
WTF?
You could have huddled around the small stove in probably not died.
And even if you die of carbon monoxide poisoning that would have been better than freezing. WTF.
Man. F++k ppl
 
2021-01-14 1:58:21 AM  
What the hell is it with the body count on NM Scouts? This seems to happen... often. They should use "Hunger Games" recruitment posters or something.
 
2021-01-14 1:59:28 AM  
Hay...... WTF?
Cold and dead?
You're not dead till you warm and dead!  Someone messed up.
 
2021-01-14 2:02:31 AM  

Prof. Frink: WoodyHayes: There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?

Related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant​_Hill_bus_tragedy ?


Very well could have been. I don't believe I've heard of that before, thanks.
 
2021-01-14 2:19:33 AM  

WoodyHayes: There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?


It rings a bell, but I don't remember any more about it than than you do.
 
2021-01-14 2:30:39 AM  

WoodyHayes: Prof. Frink: WoodyHayes: There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?

Related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant​_Hill_bus_tragedy ?

Very well could have been. I don't believe I've heard of that before, thanks.


In case you were wondering "couldn't you just stay huddled at the other end of the bus?", here's the bus. Really.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 2:44:53 AM  
Camping in Colorado is the name of my When in Rome cover band.
 
2021-01-14 2:58:34 AM  

Bslim: Camping in Colorado is the name of my When in Rome cover band.


Interesting. Walk Like Romanians is my all-Italian Bangles cover band.
 
2021-01-14 3:05:08 AM  
Sad story.

I went snow caving a few times. Our scoutmaster was lame, always had papers to grade on weekends instead of doing scout stuff. But his laziness worked out.

Near the canyon peak there were a couple spots where the wind made really deep solid snow and there would usually be a couple caves of various sizes already dug out. He would drive up and scout them out, and leave a note in front of a good one, reading, "Please reserve Friday night for troop 86." People did, usually.

A good snow cave has levels to keep the wind out, and to drain out the coldest air. The coolest cave had a crawl way a few feet stepping up into a tent-sized room tall enough to kneel in. There were three more tunnels with stepped up into rooms almost as big but not as tall. There were little nooks dug into the walls for candles, and a tea candle would keep it fairly warm and looked cool too.

But yeah, I kept having thoughts of it collapsing.
 
2021-01-14 3:16:46 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 3:25:02 AM  

BafflerMeal: vudukungfu: I lost a few fellow scouts in the 70s.
Things happen.
Glad to be alive, and that is a sad tale.

You were a terrible scoutmaster.


Scoutmaster?  He's got the night vision goggles to disprove that.
 
2021-01-14 3:49:31 AM  
When you take away the incentive for troop leaders to make sure all thier scouts live, you should expect some deaths.
 
2021-01-14 4:07:34 AM  

Spice Must Flow: Sad story.

I went snow caving a few times. Our scoutmaster was lame, always had papers to grade on weekends instead of doing scout stuff. But his laziness worked out.

Near the canyon peak there were a couple spots where the wind made really deep solid snow and there would usually be a couple caves of various sizes already dug out. He would drive up and scout them out, and leave a note in front of a good one, reading, "Please reserve Friday night for troop 86." People did, usually.

A good snow cave has levels to keep the wind out, and to drain out the coldest air. The coolest cave had a crawl way a few feet stepping up into a tent-sized room tall enough to kneel in. There were three more tunnels with stepped up into rooms almost as big but not as tall. There were little nooks dug into the walls for candles, and a tea candle would keep it fairly warm and looked cool too.

But yeah, I kept having thoughts of it collapsing.


Your scout leader that had to grade school papers was not lazy. He was doing double duty so you and your friends could get out in the fresh air. School teachers put in a massive amount of unpaid time. Remember that for every boy that was molested in scouting there was a parent or guardian that was not looking out for their son. Way too many adults suck. In more ways than one.
 
2021-01-14 4:21:07 AM  
No budge, no badge. And you die.
 
2021-01-14 4:35:18 AM  

W_Scarlet: [Fark user image image 425x679]


This
 
2021-01-14 5:27:17 AM  
Built a ton of quinzees as a kid. Surprised any one of them didn't kill me.
 
2021-01-14 7:02:47 AM  

BafflerMeal: vudukungfu: I lost a few fellow scouts in the 70s.
Things happen.
Glad to be alive, and that is a sad tale.

You were a terrible scoutmaster.


I loled.
My dad was a scoutmaster.
 
2021-01-14 7:34:49 AM  
Read the headline as something, something Boy Scout Cleavage Badge. Too early, back to sleep. Cleavage ...zzz
 
2021-01-14 7:58:42 AM  
 
2021-01-14 8:05:54 AM  

wax_on: Many years ago I built a snow cave with some people in a snow camping class. Took forever, got several layers of clothes wet. It was about 3 feet high inside but by the morning it was only 2 feet high. Dunno, think it the standard snow pit shelter with boughs on top might be safer and easier to dig out.


Toxophil: Funny, I was a scout in AK, never built a snow cave with them. Built a bunch on my own. More like snow bunkers that were apart of huge sprawling trench system along a sled luge course. I think the trick is to dig them shallow enough that you'd be able to break out if they collapsed. Seems ppl don't know that snow is heavy AF. After several snows, they'd have a lot of weight on them, but we cleared them off, and they were always small domes, just big enough for a kid or two.
Kinda miss deep snow. Sucks that a kid died sleeping in one.


My CSB:

Did this when I was in 8th grade with the Boy Scouts. We went up to a spot up near the ski area at Mt Baker and spent the afternoon digging out the caves we were going to sleep in. I am a little claustrophobic, but I went along with that because out Scoutmaster was pretty much a master outdoorsman and knew shiat about surviving in the wild that wasn't in any manual anywhere. He showed us how to dig it out of a sloped snowpack up against a rock wall, dome the roof in such a way that it would support any new snow that fell overnight. The two guys I was going to share the cave with had done it before and we dug out a farking palace. One big room in the middle with step shelves all the way around the sides to sleep on, and then a side passage that went all the way to the rock face, with a smaller dugout room there that gave us a place to to smoke weed after the Eagles had tucked themselves in that night.

My shelf collapsed as soon as I put my full weight on it, so I just flattened out a spot on the floor to sack out. The cave was dug out so we could stand up in it, but when I woke up the next morning the roof was about two feet from my face and we had to dig our way out. That was just a little bit terrifying for me.
 
2021-01-14 8:17:37 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: shiat, when I was a Scout that could have been me.  We loved sleeping in snow caves.  It was funner than shiat

My heart goes out to his family, friends, and troop.


I actually *DID* have that happen to me when I was a kid, minus the whole dying thing.

My father and brother and I built a snow when we were living up in the Adirondacks.   I must have been about 14 or so.  Brother was 11.   We had a "lard lamp" for heat and light.  Dad had made an oil lamp out of a square piece of sheet brass with the sides folded up, hung by a chain.   It's surprising how much light and heat something like that can produce, even with just 1 wick burning.  It's still over at his house, 40 years later.

Anyway, we were hanging out in our snow cave one evening, getting ready to sleep in it.   We're all sitting up when all of a sudden it collapses, and we're sitting there up to our chests/necks in snow.

We ended up cleaning it out, and then using straight branches with pine boughs over that to make the roof, which we then covered with snow.   That shelter lasted *MUCH* longer, and if I ever need to make a "snow cave" again, that's how I'm going to do it.
 
2021-01-14 8:29:32 AM  
snow caves?  really?

like, with hundreds of pounds of snow on top?

sounds like an igloo workshop would have been more practical
 
2021-01-14 8:32:13 AM  

Deathfrogg: wax_on: Many years ago I built a snow cave with some people in a snow camping class. Took forever, got several layers of clothes wet. It was about 3 feet high inside but by the morning it was only 2 feet high. Dunno, think it the standard snow pit shelter with boughs on top might be safer and easier to dig out.

Toxophil: Funny, I was a scout in AK, never built a snow cave with them. Built a bunch on my own. More like snow bunkers that were apart of huge sprawling trench system along a sled luge course. I think the trick is to dig them shallow enough that you'd be able to break out if they collapsed. Seems ppl don't know that snow is heavy AF. After several snows, they'd have a lot of weight on them, but we cleared them off, and they were always small domes, just big enough for a kid or two.
Kinda miss deep snow. Sucks that a kid died sleeping in one.

My CSB:

Did this when I was in 8th grade with the Boy Scouts. We went up to a spot up near the ski area at Mt Baker and spent the afternoon digging out the caves we were going to sleep in. I am a little claustrophobic, but I went along with that because out Scoutmaster was pretty much a master outdoorsman and knew shiat about surviving in the wild that wasn't in any manual anywhere. He showed us how to dig it out of a sloped snowpack up against a rock wall, dome the roof in such a way that it would support any new snow that fell overnight. The two guys I was going to share the cave with had done it before and we dug out a farking palace. One big room in the middle with step shelves all the way around the sides to sleep on, and then a side passage that went all the way to the rock face, with a smaller dugout room there that gave us a place to to smoke weed after the Eagles had tucked themselves in that night.

My shelf collapsed as soon as I put my full weight on it, so I just flattened out a spot on the floor to sack out. The cave was dug out so we could stand up in it, but when I woke up the next morning the roof wa ...


You spelled overconfident idiot incorrectly.
 
2021-01-14 8:53:11 AM  
HEY SUBBY: F*CK YOU

I've been coming to FARK for about 20 yrs.This is not the first time I've seen the death of a young person mocked. It's not funny or clever, it's despicable. I remember one where a little girl was killed, maybe 11 or 12 yrs old. The headline had something to do with "smores". Again, it wasn't funny. It was just sad. Drew, you should be ashamed for allowing mods to greenlight this kind of crap.
 
2021-01-14 9:21:07 AM  

dittybopper: NotThatGuyAgain: shiat, when I was a Scout that could have been me.  We loved sleeping in snow caves.  It was funner than shiat

My heart goes out to his family, friends, and troop.

I actually *DID* have that happen to me when I was a kid, minus the whole dying thing.

My father and brother and I built a snow when we were living up in the Adirondacks.   I must have been about 14 or so.  Brother was 11.   We had a "lard lamp" for heat and light.  Dad had made an oil lamp out of a square piece of sheet brass with the sides folded up, hung by a chain.   It's surprising how much light and heat something like that can produce, even with just 1 wick burning.  It's still over at his house, 40 years later.

Anyway, we were hanging out in our snow cave one evening, getting ready to sleep in it.   We're all sitting up when all of a sudden it collapses, and we're sitting there up to our chests/necks in snow.

We ended up cleaning it out, and then using straight branches with pine boughs over that to make the roof, which we then covered with snow.   That shelter lasted *MUCH* longer, and if I ever need to make a "snow cave" again, that's how I'm going to do it.


Yep. Snow trenches are faster to build, safer to sleep in, and if done right just as warm. You're also less likely to sweat through your long johns while building one. I continue to wonder why BSA doesn't discourage the use of snow caves outside of dire survival situations due to the risks involved.
 
2021-01-14 9:39:26 AM  

Fern Crest: I wonder if they might award him anything posthumously?


Probably not related to that campout unless there was other stuff going on.  You generally don't get decorated for sucking at it, and I honestly can't think of any merit badges that have snow caving as a requirement even as an option.  If he had a pending promotion in rank or merit badges or segments already coming, those will still get awarded.

25 years ago, my local council probably would have awarded a round segment (basically somewhere between a military campaign ribbon and a Steam achievement in function, you get it for just being there during a specific set of circumstances) to put against their district insignia for each 1" of precipitation camped through and that's about it; bad weather participation is a problem in the northwest and that helps get the new guys involved.  Ended up getting something like 200 of those and started turning them down after the first half dozen.  Segments generally vary wildly by council, sometimes by district and occasionally by pack/troop/post/ship/wing.
 
2021-01-14 9:46:04 AM  

WoodyHayes: There was something that I believe was on Nickelodeon in the late eighties or very early nineties. It had older elementary school/younger middle school aged kids on a field trip somewhere in a snowstorm and something happens, maybe the driver had a heart attack or something like that and there was an accident. From what I remember there weren't any adults around.

Some of the windows on the bus are busted so the cold gets in pretty easily which causes some of the kids to go out and build a snow cave to try and stay alive. There is an older kid on the bus who refuses to join the other kids because he is a tough guy and doesn't want to act as if he is cold while pretending that the snow cave isn't going to be any warmer.

Maybe it was originally an Afterschool Special? Does this ring a bell with anybody?


At least one South Park episode and two Rescue 911s come to mind.  Boys Life Magazine also had comics that told the stories of boys who got the Lifesaving and Meritorious Action Award and winter survival from a vehicular mishap was a recurring thing.  I remember as a boy, given how rarely that's awarded, hoping I got one but understanding it's mostly about being in the right place at the wrong time.  In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't, mostly because it seems like almost everyone who got a LMAA probably has PTSD and a lifetime of counseling after that.
 
2021-01-14 9:47:29 AM  

jtown: Kinda glad I lived too far away from snow country for that to be an option when I was a scout.  We had a pretty biatchin' camp in the mountains but we did our stuff in spring and summer.  It was also used for "Science Camp" by nearby schools during jr. high.  One of my friends saw his first boobs at that camp when a girl's tube top malfunctioned.


Our one near-tragedy involved somebody going hypothermic after a day-long hike during a snow storm...in February....at Valley Farking Forge.   Might could have maybe seem that one coming..
 
2021-01-14 9:54:41 AM  

jtown: Kinda glad I lived too far away from snow country for that to be an option when I was a scout.  We had a pretty biatchin' camp in the mountains but we did our stuff in spring and summer.  It was also used for "Science Camp" by nearby schools during jr. high.  One of my friends saw his first boobs at that camp when a girl's tube top malfunctioned.


Reminds me of how I started going out with my first girlfriend.  I knew her through her brother for years, they were both in the same explorer post.  She was rather lithe but right as we started working at the same scout camp, she got breasts and suddenly we had the same shirt size. I usually had a spare complete uniform in my bicycle pannier just in case I fell into the creek (again), so we struck it off when I ran back to employee parking to grab the shirt off my spare uniform in my pannier to loan her.
 
2021-01-14 9:57:29 AM  

thespindrifter: What the hell is it with the body count on NM Scouts? This seems to happen... often. They should use "Hunger Games" recruitment posters or something.


Rugged terrain and normally a lot of visiting Scouts doing a high adventure at Philmont that haven't done a lot of desert backpacking before, if at all.  Though Philmont was closed for all of the 2019 season and volunteered as a base camp for firefighters, and 2020 because of COVID.
 
2021-01-14 10:01:13 AM  

pheelix: I continue to wonder why BSA doesn't discourage the use of snow caves outside of dire survival situations due to the risks involved.


They don't work above the treeline.  High Adventure trips often go well past that.  I've been to the top of Mt Hood twice.
 
2021-01-14 10:05:07 AM  

Magorn: jtown: Kinda glad I lived too far away from snow country for that to be an option when I was a scout.  We had a pretty biatchin' camp in the mountains but we did our stuff in spring and summer.  It was also used for "Science Camp" by nearby schools during jr. high.  One of my friends saw his first boobs at that camp when a girl's tube top malfunctioned.

Our one near-tragedy involved somebody going hypothermic after a day-long hike during a snow storm...in February....at Valley Farking Forge.   Might could have maybe seem that one coming..


Only been to Valley Forge as an adult, but honestly after being there during February 2014 for a couple weeks for work?  fark everything west of 63rd Street.  Any weather that sucks in Center City sucks so much harder out towards Norristown, King of Prussia, Malvern, Valley Forge...
 
2021-01-14 10:18:24 AM  
onpointpreparedness.netView Full Size
 
2021-01-14 10:46:07 AM  

nanim: [onpointpreparedness.net image 300x300]


Jerimiah.Johnson.flint.and.steel.fire.​under.tree gif.
 
2021-01-14 10:56:00 AM  

nanim: [onpointpreparedness.net image 300x300]


Cool illustrations like that in the Scout Field Guide, and the snow never got deep enough in farking Nebraska. Hell, it doesn't get deep enough here for that.
 
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