Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   We're boned. End of story   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Paul R. Ehrlich, Overpopulation, Demography, World population, Climate change, Extinction, Green Revolution, main point  
•       •       •

9046 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 13 Jan 2021 at 3:05 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



94 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2021-01-13 3:43:43 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: Not to say I am denying climate change,


TBF neither does PapermonkeyExpress
 
2021-01-13 3:48:30 PM  
This article again.

The Guardian is the Tipper Gore of news media.
 
2021-01-13 3:49:35 PM  

Snort: This article again.

The Guardian is the Tipper Gore of news media.


The sun doesn't go out when you shut your eyes, either.
 
2021-01-13 3:51:51 PM  

PapermonkeyExpress: Man, what is it with FARK and apocalypse porn nowadays?

It's amazing some of you can get out of bed in the morning.

/smh


If you were told that your only child had lukemia, would you do everything in your power to help, or just complain about how doctors are too negative?
 
2021-01-13 3:52:03 PM  

gunther_bumpass: Or we can stop pretending everyone needs 4 kids to keep the economy ever-growing.

Farking idiots.


Who are you pretending to talk too?
 
2021-01-13 3:52:12 PM  

Snort: This article again.

The Guardian is the Tipper Gore of news media.


The guardian support censoring music?
 
2021-01-13 3:52:52 PM  

BafflerMeal: The fallacy is that everyone intuits slow gradual change. The reality is that changes tend to lurch forward when a system's equilibrium is ruptured.

Things will just keep on not happening until they do and then everyone will wonder how it could have suddenly gotten so bad, so fast.


The coral covered in algae is a case of that.
 
2021-01-13 3:55:23 PM  

born_yesterday: Humans are pretty f*cking stupid.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-13 3:58:17 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size


Seen leaving the planet with those who can afford a ticket.
 
2021-01-13 4:01:05 PM  
Newspaper: 2 and 2 is still 4

PapermonkeyExpress:

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-13 4:03:58 PM  
Hollywood has been warning people about such perils in movies from before we were born. No one listened. Now we die. The end.
 
2021-01-13 4:05:05 PM  
Given the latest status overall, go for it..   bring it on.  Smack that 'ol reset button.   We're due.
 
2021-01-13 4:08:22 PM  

born_yesterday: Humans are pretty f*cking stupid.


Except you right?

Bet you think you are a great driver too.
 
2021-01-13 4:10:34 PM  

Surrender your boo-tah: gunther_bumpass: Or we can stop pretending everyone needs 4 kids to keep the economy ever-growing.

Farking idiots.

Who are you pretending to talk too?


The real question is, who the f*ck are YOU talkin' to?
 
2021-01-13 4:15:06 PM  

Snort: This article again.

The Guardian is the Tipper Gore of news media.


What, it has a beef with Frank Zappa?
 
2021-01-13 4:21:15 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Nuff said!!!
 
2021-01-13 4:21:28 PM  

waxbeans: gunther_bumpass: Or we can stop pretending everyone needs 4 kids to keep the economy ever-growing.

Farking idiots.

So switch to strictly anal?


i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-13 4:21:32 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


Georgia Guide stones.

/study them out
 
2021-01-13 4:41:28 PM  

Claude Ballse: Nadie_AZ: kdawg7736: This is like the 300th article for the same story since God knows when.

If anyone is paying attention, we are seeing mass weather events right now.

The one hitting the north western coast of the US isn't normal. How much rain you guys in Seattle getting right now?
Or the polar vortex that was pushed 'this way' due to high temperatures in Siberia?
The mass drought and mass human over consumption of the Colorado River is causing aridification. The fires in Colorado were at the headwaters of said River. If you live in any of the 7 states that feed or use the Colorado River, you will be impacted.
We are seeing global impacts of our arrogance and determination to 'keep the economy growing' for a wealthy few.

But hey, scientists keep saying 'sh*t's bad, we need to fix it". Must be their problem, not ours.

For the same reason that Trump and republicans here keep getting re-elected, that is precisely why people will never take climate change seriously.

There is no accountability when you never have to face consequence when you can just pray your culpability away. You're raised to believe that so long as you're a good member in standing of your faith, God will always come through right there at the very end to save you. Deus Ex Machina is a core of any faith.

Worse yet, many people are taking comfort in these doomsday predictions about climate change, because they believe that it marks the fulfilling of a prophecy that finally ends their pathetic lives, and provides an escape from the hell they've willingly created.


You mean like buying "carbon credits"?  What a scam.  But I guess it lets your celebrity spokespeople keep their private jets and energy-sucking mansions.

Look, nobody's buying what you're selling.  The whole Climate Change® fiasco is simply your vehicle to pass lib legislation.  The Green New Deal® reads more like the Communist Manifesto than serious policy proposals.
 
2021-01-13 4:46:50 PM  
And there it is.
 
2021-01-13 5:11:40 PM  

cob2f: These "sobering reports" are such a drag. Can someone please post an intoxicating report?


I don't know about you, but when I read things like "insects are dying off" I can't help but feel a bit woozy. "The weight of human infrastructure now outweighs all biomass (every tree and animal and plant on the planet)".

Pretty trippy, not in the good way.
 
2021-01-13 5:15:15 PM  

Bslim: Surrender your boo-tah: gunther_bumpass: Or we can stop pretending everyone needs 4 kids to keep the economy ever-growing.

Farking idiots.

Who are you pretending to talk too?

The real question is, who the f*ck are YOU talkin' to?


I believe he was talking to gunther_bumpass, if I am scanning this correctly.
 
2021-01-13 5:26:09 PM  

FarkinNortherner: I wish Paul R. Ehrlich's name was nowhere near this. The man has been professionally wrong about everything for five decades. Even if he's right now, which may well be the case, he's too easy to dismiss.


I can't agree more. Dude also complained about India, I don't know you but pre-pandemic you could take New York or Osaka or any large, rich city full of crowds and whine in a much more meaningful way (since rich people use way, way, way more resources).

The thing is, if we look at the problem as fundamentally an issue of exponential growth in a bottle, he's been wrong about how quickly we reach capacity but not wrong that we were headed that way. If you have exponential growth, it happens fast, so it is not apparent until after you pass over the threshold.

One famous example is a pond with lily pads growing exponentially. If they double in a week, how many weeks from 1/16th covered to the whole pond? 4 weeks. But when you look at that pond with 1/16th, everything seems all right and it seems to be a distant problem. Heck, go back two weeks, and only 1/64th, or 1.56% covered. 6 weeks from disaster.

IRL, when something gets that big in nature, usually a lot of bad things happen in a short period and most or all of it dies off. Well, we're living in nature. We are animals. Wonder what happens?
 
2021-01-13 5:29:22 PM  

thisispete: [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/XM0uZ9mf​OUI?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


that's farking terrifying
 
2021-01-13 5:57:10 PM  
Here, lets sum up whats going to happen for climate news for the next decade

As technology, algorithms and AI get better at understanding how things work, go over the past data and predictions, the unifying thing they will find is that we hilariously underestimated how farked we were, and even our worst case predictions were not even close to what we are actually going to have to deal with, and that we should have started mitigation measures back in the 70s and 80s if we wanted to save our asses
 
2021-01-13 6:07:28 PM  
FTA - "...and empowering women"

Look, I'm not a denier, but someone please explain to me what the FARK that has to do with the climate?
 
2021-01-13 6:20:28 PM  
Whenever I see another Climate Change story posted on Fark, I'm just going to posting this graph again and again (comparing actual temperature rise to the 102 models used by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change).  At least until I get kicked off of the platform for a thought crime.

curryja.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-13 6:35:58 PM  

Kolg8: Whenever I see another Climate Change story posted on Fark, I'm just going to posting this graph again and again (comparing actual temperature rise to the 102 models used by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change).  At least until I get kicked off of the platform for a thought crime.

[curryja.files.wordpress.com image 720x540]


"But there was snow on the ground in DC in winter. Surely that means global warming is a hoax, right?"

/Channeling the idiocy of Jim "Mighty Moran" Inhofe
 
2021-01-13 7:37:46 PM  

Kolg8: Whenever I see another Climate Change story posted on Fark, I'm just going to posting this graph again and again ...


The graph you present to suggest global temperature changes are not as severe as various models predicted?  The warming in Arctic regions is proceeding at a pace greater than worse-case predictions.  The warming feedback loop is releasing permafrost methane at ever increasing rates.  We are in a lull before the storm.

/a stick bends before it suddenly snaps
 
2021-01-13 7:38:33 PM  
There is a weird storm SW of Tasmania right now that is heading NE.  It is very far south where the weather sats don't get a good look at it and it is well outside of radar range.   There were rumors that a cyclone had hit Melbourne in the 1800s but that just doesn't make sense based on modern theories but this storm sure looks like one that is forming.  The southern westerlies over the cold Antarctic circumpolar current shouldn't have enough energy to be making storms like that. Then again it should be 35C here and I was tempted to turn on the heater early this morning.
 
2021-01-13 7:53:26 PM  

Kolg8: Whenever I see another Climate Change story posted on Fark, I'm just going to posting this graph again and again (comparing actual temperature rise to the 102 models used by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change).  At least until I get kicked off of the platform for a thought crime.

[curryja.files.wordpress.com image 720x540]


If you mean what I think you mean, there were and still are some actions that were changed/are in the process of being changed to help kick the "end of times" down the curb a bit.

Remember:
- when unleaded gasoline became the standard?
- legislation was passed requiring catalytic converters?
- wood and coal were no longer the main heating and in some cases power sources?
- curbs or outright bans on chemicals that were causing damage to species of X groups?
- when there the EPA was formed? (and similar agencies in other countries)
- when governments started taking wind and solar seriously?
- when has/electric hybrids preceded plugin hybrids?

etc etc etc.

We're still not doing nearly as much as we can, but our species has at least started crawling towards better practices.  That's why you see what you see.
 
2021-01-13 7:57:07 PM  

lilyleftthevalley: Kolg8:
- when has gas/electric hybrids preceded plugin hybrids?

FTFM

 
2021-01-13 8:01:00 PM  
We're not farmer's but Bubby & I have always gardened: an orchard of 20-odd small trees (max by @15'), bought Preppers seed mixes 4 yrs ago & still using in 2'x2' plots, mostly. We can our FFVs for ourselves & as gifts. We enjoy it & it takes about 4 hrs/wk including lawn work, trimming & gathering, & cooking. We always have too much but we buy a lot less & live way below our incomes. Our lives are not bare but comfortable. We are getting through the pandemic & being isolated by cooking & experimenting with our cookbooks & sharing those meals.

We've got time, people. Preppers be seeds are cheap online instead of buying them packet by packet at hardware stores. Make small areas & grow a little. Most of the country is coming to planting season soon, believe it or not. Almanacs online will tell you when you best plant what where you live. You will have too many tomatoes unless you learn to make catsup. People will give you tomatoes. Learn to make sauces. You can grow mixed corn & sunflowers along your fence line. It's hard to reach over 2' stretch. Use a drip line to save water. A fruit picker is about $10. You'll be amazed to have your jars next year. Bushes do well along the house. Flowers with thorns, like roses, are decorative at windows & discouraging for burglars. Mix fruits & flowers. Herbs in windows & that bathroom window is a greenhouse that also helps with smells. Grow your recipes, plant what you need for that sauce.

The first year can be expensive but you can find things like jars in 2nd hand stores. But the 2nd year you will see your grocery bill go down & the quality of your meals go up. Be prepared for Gardner's Gain in weight, kind of like the Freshman 15.
 
2021-01-13 9:10:09 PM  
If cloning technology was more robust we could cull the millennial and GenZ generations take the pressure off the environment and start over with better education instead of indoctrination.
 
2021-01-13 9:38:42 PM  
Where I live has been both a glacier and an inland sea. Not really concerned.
 
2021-01-13 10:20:58 PM  

fortheloveofgod: FTA - "...and empowering women"
Look, I'm not a denier, but someone please explain to me what the FARK that has to do with the climate?


'[Wilkinson] argues that if women were treated more equally professionally, they'd have fewer kids and the land they farm would be more efficient, all of which would help save the planet.'
 
2021-01-13 11:53:19 PM  

Kolg8: Whenever I see another Climate Change story posted on Fark, I'm just going to posting this graph again and again (comparing actual temperature rise to the 102 models used by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change).  At least until I get kicked off of the platform for a thought crime.

[curryja.files.wordpress.com image 720x540]


Yeah, we somewhat avoided the worst immediate catastrophes, kicking the can down the road a bit by curbing some of our absolute worst impulses. That doesn't mean we've prevented our own destruction yet.

I don't know why this is so farking hard for people to understand. Do you want your kids, and their kids, to have an incredibly difficult life before finally either succumbing to extinction or a centuries, possibly millenia-long existence as a pre-industrial society while the ecosystem calms down? Is this desirable? Just because you think you might die before things get awful, that means it doesn't matter at all? You're that much of a selfish fark?

Everyone in denial about this seems to like toying with the idea of why "it's not so bad" and all this bullshiat, and they know it's bullshiat. We should get our asses in gear and clean up the mess we've made.
 
2021-01-14 12:13:22 AM  

Sgygus: Kolg8: Whenever I see another Climate Change story posted on Fark, I'm just going to posting this graph again and again ...

The graph you present to suggest global temperature changes are not as severe as various models predicted?  The warming in Arctic regions is proceeding at a pace greater than worse-case predictions.  The warming feedback loop is releasing permafrost methane at ever increasing rates.  We are in a lull before the storm.

/a stick bends before it suddenly snaps


But he has a nice graph and you're just writing words. Make a better graph and don't sound like the Al Gore tape Greta Thunberg uses as white noise to fall asleep to and maybe people will care.

Or somehow mention trump but then you'll get threadjacked into a rage orgy.
 
2021-01-14 1:10:23 AM  

trappedspirit: [i.imgur.com image 620x464]

Seen leaving the planet with those who can afford a ticket.


Good.  Next problem... how to get a fark ton of ICBM's heading to Mars... about 6 months behind them.

They'll arrive just as Elon's little colony is going full Lord of the Flies.
 
2021-01-14 5:26:19 AM  
That odd storm south of Aussieland... it is now forecast to dump snow in some of the areas that were on fire this time last year.
 
2021-01-14 7:48:39 AM  
lilyleftthevalley Let's take them one at a time:

- when unleaded gasoline became the standard?
As suggested by its name, "unleaded" gasoline removed lead from gasoline, not CO2

- legislation was passed requiring catalytic converters?
Catalytic converters reducepollutants, by combining carbon monoxide and hydro carbons to produce CO2. An engine with a catalytic converter produces 10% more CO2 than an engine without one.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca​talyti​c_converter#Environmental_impact

- wood and coal were no longer the main heating and in some cases power sources?
During the time period represented in the graph, global use of coal, primarily due to developing countries like India and China, has increased since 1975 (the first year of the graph).https://www.agci.org/data/art​icles/coa​l

- curbs or outright bans on chemicals that were causing damage to species of X groups?
Good policies, but what does it have to do with CO2 emissions?

- when there the EPA was formed? (and similar agencies in other countries)
Perhaps they have been effective in other areas, but not at reducing CO2 levels, which have still increased to over 400 PPM (it was about 330 PPM in 1975).https://www.co2.earth/monthly-​co2

- when governments started taking wind and solar seriously?
They are, but only 12% of global energy consumption comes from renewables (biomass, wind, solar, geothermal, hydro).https://www.americangeoscienc​es.org/cr​itical-issues/faq/how-much-world-energ​y-consumption-and-electricity-generati​on-renewable-energy

- when has/electric hybrids preceded plugin hybrids?
Globally, electric vehicles are 2.3% of new sales, and 1% of car stock.https://www.iea.org/reports/gl​obal-ev-​outlook-2020

So . . . nothing you have mentioned has reduced CO2 concentrations in a way that accounts for the lack of the warming projected by the IPCC.
 
2021-01-14 8:13:54 AM  

some_beer_drinker: we are losing 1% of the worlds insects every year. yeah, we're boned.


That's just the average. In my part of the midwest we see very few butterflies or moths. Almost no grasshoppers. Even the population of barn flies and house flies is way down. The seed eating birds may thrive but insectivores are suffering.  My barn swallow population has been way down for quite a few years already. Same number of horses but not enough insects for the birds.
 
2021-01-14 10:12:17 AM  
People like me, who've followed environmental news for a long time, have already known (for a long time) that we're boned.  We were boned 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 40+ years ago when I first started learning about climate change and the greenhouse effect in school.  We were boned because every possible way out required a change in human behavior, using less when our entire history shows that almost everyone is always striving for more.
 
2021-01-14 11:42:39 AM  

Kolg8: lilyleftthevalley Let's take them one at a time:

- when unleaded gasoline became the standard?
As suggested by its name, "unleaded" gasoline removed lead from gasoline, not CO2

- legislation was passed requiring catalytic converters?
Catalytic converters reducepollutants, by combining carbon monoxide and hydro carbons to produce CO2. An engine with a catalytic converter produces 10% more CO2 than an engine without one.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cata​lytic_converter#Environmental_impact

- wood and coal were no longer the main heating and in some cases power sources?
During the time period represented in the graph, global use of coal, primarily due to developing countries like India and China, has increased since 1975 (the first year of the graph).https://www.agci.org/data/artic​les/coal

- curbs or outright bans on chemicals that were causing damage to species of X groups?
Good policies, but what does it have to do with CO2 emissions?

- when there the EPA was formed? (and similar agencies in other countries)
Perhaps they have been effective in other areas, but not at reducing CO2 levels, which have still increased to over 400 PPM (it was about 330 PPM in 1975).https://www.co2.earth/monthly-co​2

- when governments started taking wind and solar seriously?
They are, but only 12% of global energy consumption comes from renewables (biomass, wind, solar, geothermal, hydro).https://www.americangeosciences​.org/critical-issues/faq/how-much-worl​d-energy-consumption-and-electricity-g​eneration-renewable-energy

- when has/electric hybrids preceded plugin hybrids?
Globally, electric vehicles are 2.3% of new sales, and 1% of car stock.https://www.iea.org/reports/glob​al-ev-outlook-2020

So . . . nothing you have mentioned has reduced CO2 concentrations in a way that accounts for the lack of the warming projected by the IPCC.


Since your graph wasn't linked (and collected data ends in 2015 it looks like?), I couldn't really discern from your post or the graph about your singular focus on CO2.  Since it wasn't clear that all your care about is, I unknowingly failed to address that because you failed to make it clear that was your only focus.

I'm also now realizing that in your original post when you wrote: "(comparing actual temperature rise to the 102 models used by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change)" That 102 was perhaps supposed to be CO2, and not the MIT lecture IAP 2017: Climate Science 102 - Modeling Systems | MIT Global where I couldn't find that graph either.  (I honestly did a search for "102 model climate change" because I was trying to figure out what the 102 model was since I couldn't find a "102 model" on the IPCC site.)  I'm also not sure if you're aware of all the studies/critiques that have been done and published on the latest report already that have pointed out issues with it--and the adjustments that were made a result--but it seems wiki has quite a few.

To be fair, yes on your point about cat converters. Sometimes when we try to do better, it doesn't WAI and in this case made things worse.  My sleep addled brain was just focused on the point that we've tried to do better and I really should have left this out because it ultimately was worse and didn't support my rebuttal.  This one I was totally off point about.

As you point towards regarding wood/coal, that hasn't been reduced as much as was intended.   Partly due to pop increase, as well as slower development/adaptation to other cleaner methods.  Still, if those that did change over did not, it would be worse, which is touched upon in the link below.

Related to wind/solar and hybrid electric, yes we are still using too few of them.  And I've argued in other threads that Li batteries are going to have their own heavy costs down the road that we can't yet judge whether we really will be better off going all hybrid or not.  (FWIW I do own a 2000 gas hybrid.)  There's also the plastic issue with replacing both wind turbine blades and solar panels since there are still not terribly viable recycling alternatives.  Nor the overall environmental costs (habitat disruption, creating new microclimes, etc.) of large scale solar farms, but again most of those issues are not specific only to CO2 reduction.  (I also didn't even touch on what happens if we get better at reprocessing from nuclear plants.)

But back to the  issue about why climate models weren't/aren't right, here's just one article that touches on this, though there are many out there if one bothers to look: https://www.scientificamerican.com/ar​t​icle/climate-models-got-it-right-on-gl​obal-warming/.  As many folks point out when faulty modeling comes up, "we can't even predict the weather a week from now very accurately".  I understand the frustration of faulty predictions and "sky is falling" doom and gloom feel to many of them.  Do we need to do better at both changing our habits as well as our prediction models since we still haven't figured out how to survive anywhere else than Earth?  If we want our species to survive--yes.

"The new study highlights a critically important, but sometimes overlooked, point about the way climate models work. The amount of warming they predict is a direct consequence of the greenhouse gas emissions they assume for the future. And accurately predicting carbon emissions is notoriously difficult-it depends on many human factors, including population growth, economic shifts and changes in the energy landscape.

The study suggests that many of the models criticized in the past were accurately simulating the relationship between temperatures and greenhouse gases after all-it's just that their assumptions about future carbon emissions didn't match up with the emissions that were actually produced in the following years.

In other words, if scientists went back and input the exact levels of greenhouse gas emissions that actually occurred after the models were published, their predictions about future warming would have been on point.
"

Hopefully I was a bit more on target this time.  Now I need to haul my ass to bed.
 
Displayed 44 of 94 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.