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(Bloomberg)   In-sur-rec'-tion - an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government   (bloomberg.com) divider line
    More: Murica, United States Constitution, Supreme Court of the United States, Donald Trump, relevant constitutional provision, United States Congress, 14th Amendment, First Amendment to the United States Constitution, criminal prosecution  
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2045 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jan 2021 at 2:56 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-01-12 9:20:34 AM  
Also (n) The second worst TNG movie.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-12 9:36:13 AM  
Sedition is never a good look, and if you try even The Dumbest Coup, you don't have the right to try again. Might want to grab your shinebox.
 
2021-01-12 9:39:07 AM  
Simple explanation of insurrection vs. treason anyone?  Which ever case (or both), I hope everyone gets found and has the entire applicable portion of entire legal libraries thrown at them when charged and fairly convicted.
 
2021-01-12 9:47:46 AM  

Timid Goddess: Simple explanation of insurrection vs. treason anyone?  Which ever case (or both), I hope everyone gets found and has the entire applicable portion of entire legal libraries thrown at them when charged and fairly convicted.


IANAL, but insurrection assumes violence; treason could be anything against the government ie selling state secrets to the enemy. Not all treason is insurrection, but insurrection is treason.

Feel free to correct me if Im horribly off base here.
 
2021-01-12 10:01:22 AM  
"The upshot is that, at least with regard to the mob itself, it seems possible that a court could conclude that an insurrection was happening on Jan. 6."

"Not all of the Jan. 6 participants were violent, of course. But some were."


"As for the uprising part, again, not all the rioters wanted to bring down the government. But at least some clearly intended to interfere temporarily with the congressional process for declaring Joe Biden to be president."


The number of times the phrase "...so we've got that going for us!" could be added to this article is...  worrying.
 
2021-01-12 10:27:10 AM  
The upshot is that, at least with regard to the mob itself, it seems possible that a court could conclude that an insurrection was happening on Jan. 6.

Yeah.  Every single idiot that was involved in the Forlorn Dope needs to spend some time in jail.
 
2021-01-12 12:04:32 PM  

icon0fs1n: Timid Goddess: Simple explanation of insurrection vs. treason anyone?  Which ever case (or both), I hope everyone gets found and has the entire applicable portion of entire legal libraries thrown at them when charged and fairly convicted.

IANAL, but insurrection assumes violence; treason could be anything against the government ie selling state secrets to the enemy. Not all treason is insurrection, but insurrection is treason.

Feel free to correct me if Im horribly off base here.


"Insurrection": mob, crowd seeking to overthrow government
"Treason": individual actor betraying the state

(maybe)
 
2021-01-12 3:00:39 PM  

icon0fs1n: Timid Goddess: Simple explanation of insurrection vs. treason anyone?  Which ever case (or both), I hope everyone gets found and has the entire applicable portion of entire legal libraries thrown at them when charged and fairly convicted.

IANAL, but insurrection assumes violence; treason could be anything against the government ie selling state secrets to the enemy. Not all treason is insurrection, but insurrection is treason.

Feel free to correct me if Im horribly off base here.


Treason, by US statute, requires providing aid and comfort to the enemy.  This is usually assumed to be a foreign enemy in time of war.

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000

Insurrection does not imply an active war, nor does it require an external enemy.

All treason is insurrection, but not all insurrection is treason.
 
2021-01-12 3:02:49 PM  
Obviously, it can't have been an insurrection, because none of the seditionists filled out any of the paperwork to make it official, and without Trump at the top of the insurrection organizational chart, how can you even say he really incited the mob in a registered leadership capacity?
 
2021-01-12 3:02:51 PM  
Oh, man, I need to try to come up with parody lyrics to the Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar Rock song "Interjection!". Maybe the Parody Project people can do it?
 
2021-01-12 3:03:40 PM  
In-fat-u-a-tion: A bad Rod Stewart song
 
2021-01-12 3:04:22 PM  
Did anyone say they "hereby declare" while they were in the capitol? If not, then it was just for funsies, no harm meant.
 
2021-01-12 3:05:39 PM  
They're revolting alright.
 
2021-01-12 3:06:20 PM  

Timid Goddess: Simple explanation of insurrection vs. treason anyone?  Which ever case (or both), I hope everyone gets found and has the entire applicable portion of entire legal libraries thrown at them when charged and fairly convicted.


Webster's 1913:

Trea"son (?), n. [OE. tresun, treisun, traisoun, OF. traïson, F. trahison, L. traditio a giving up, a delivering up, fr. tradere to give up, betray. See Traitor, and cf. Tradition.] 1. The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.

In'sur*rec"tion (?), n. [L. insurrectio, fr. insurgere, insurrectum: cf. F. insurrection. See Insurgent.]
1. A rising against civil or political authority, or the established government; open and active opposition to the execution of law in a city or state.

Legally, I dunno, but the chief difference seems to be that insurrection involves open defiance or opposition ("rising against", "open and active"), while treason may not, as in the case, say, of handing over state secrets to an enemy. It also appears insurrection doesn't need to include an attempt to overthrow the state, but merely to oppose its operation in some way.

That's make the 6th treasonous insurrection, by my reckoning.
 
2021-01-12 3:06:30 PM  

Zombies ate my neighbors: Did anyone say they "hereby declare" while they were in the capitol? If not, then it was just for funsies, no harm meant.


I like how they want to overthrow the government but are pushing it up a few days a 'cause of the weekend.
 
2021-01-12 3:06:48 PM  
According to that, just his "Liberate Michigan!" crap disqualifies him
 
2021-01-12 3:06:51 PM  
All he has to do is say "no, I didn't do that." and run anyway.  No one holds him accountable.
 
2021-01-12 3:07:06 PM  
deadline.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-12 3:07:21 PM  
"Sir, the peasants are revolting!!!"
"Boy, you said it. They stink on ice!"
 
2021-01-12 3:12:18 PM  

Lord_Moldypants: "Sir, the peasants are revolting!!!"
"Boy, you said it. They stink on ice!"


Are these lizard?
 
2021-01-12 3:12:52 PM  

Mugato: Also (n) The second worst TNG movie.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 335x150]


Which one is worse?

Remember, we all agreed that the thing after Insurrection claiming to be a trek movie didn't actually happen in order to block out the pain.
 
2021-01-12 3:13:16 PM  
The article says the question of if he is eligible would have to go through the courts.
Those on the courts owe him so this article is fluff.
 
2021-01-12 3:13:27 PM  

lectos: All he has to do is say "no, I didn't do that." and run anyway.  No one holds him accountable.


I think we've arrived at the point where we either hold him accountable or people end up dead.

Ok, there are 350,000 dead already, but that was through legislation, not violence, so it's not graphic enough to shock people and is getting swept under the rug.

Ok, 5 people died at the Capitol, one shot and one beaten, brutally to death, and we all had to watch.

But, I mean like a LOT of people get brutally and violently killed.

Yeah, that's where we are as a nation.
Are we great again yet?
 
2021-01-12 3:15:50 PM  
Howzabout

The unlawful use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Does that sum it up?

oh wait wrong word.
 
2021-01-12 3:16:17 PM  
Someone on reddit assured me that wasn't an insurrection.  Because CHAZ was the real insurrection.
 
2021-01-12 3:17:01 PM  
FBI BRIEFING ON CNN NOW
 
2021-01-12 3:23:23 PM  

solokumba: FBI BRIEFING ON CNN NOW


Y'might want to take a drink of water since milk upsets y'so.
 
2021-01-12 3:23:34 PM  
Anyone care to explain how what Trump did was worse or different than the democrats cheering BLM on as they burned down cities?

Or is it just more blind hypocrisy?
 
2021-01-12 3:25:34 PM  

JonPace: Anyone care to explain how what Trump did was worse or different than the democrats cheering BLM on as they burned down cities?


The lack of cheering
 
2021-01-12 3:26:52 PM  
Does this provision to apply to Trump?

Journalist fail +1
 
2021-01-12 3:29:04 PM  

Miss_Dorothy_Kilgallen: "The upshot is that, at least with regard to the mob itself, it seems possible that a court could conclude that an insurrection was happening on Jan. 6."

"Not all of the Jan. 6 participants were violent, of course. But some were."


"As for the uprising part, again, not all the rioters wanted to bring down the government. But at least some clearly intended to interfere temporarily with the congressional process for declaring Joe Biden to be president."

The number of times the phrase "...so we've got that going for us!" could be added to this article is...  worrying.


Yep, it was indeed a shiat show.  Zip-tie man probably has some years coming his way.  I note that nobody seems to care at all if you attack a federal courthouse with explosives and the protestors pounding on the door of the Supreme Court trying to interrupt the Kavanaugh confirmation were downright celebrated by the media so we should be looking for a common standard to discuss these things.
 
2021-01-12 3:29:51 PM  

JonPace: Anyone care to explain how what Trump did was worse or different than the democrats cheering BLM on as they burned down cities?

Or is it just more blind hypocrisy?



We're going to get some many of these posts while Parler is offline, nowhere to contain these cocksocks.
 
2021-01-12 3:30:29 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Back up in your ass with the insurrection
 
2021-01-12 3:31:20 PM  
We all need to take a moment to recognize the differences between "terrorism", revolutionary action, civil disobedience, occupation and protest.

Each of these are different types of resistance to civil authority. All are legitimate in certain circumstances. Even "terrorism" which is guerilla action, is morally acceptable and strategically viable in certain conditions.

So what we saw with the capital needs to be clearly defined so we might articulate how it is unjust while the establishment of an autonomous zone or the burning of a police precinct may not be.

What we saw, was a faction of the petty bourgioisie try to establish cultural hegemony by overthrowing a legislature which operates as the dictatorship of the big bourgioisie. So this is an inter-reactionary squabble which should probably be described as a revolt or an uprising.

It isn't a coup, as much as that word is thrown around. There is no organized military involvement.

Its not a revolution, they have no cohesive organization.

It was a violent temper tantrum by grown toddlers with guns. Calling it an insurrection almost lends it legitimacy. Insurrection against injustice is noble. Actions like those of John Brown come to mind. The American revolution itself was an act of bourgiois insurrection against the crown.

Ill try to refer to it as a mob action, a violent white supremacist uprising, an illegitimate act of domestic terrorism or something similar while I seek better descriptors which don't lend it any semblance of legitimacy.

So the question remains as to what to do about it.

The liberal response seems pretty scattered. Like they don't really know how to deal with this. Impeachment seems like a virtue signal more than anything materially valuable.

There are a few examples in history of how to deal with radical right wing reactionaries in your society.

China undertook the cultural revolution, Russia, the political purges and collectivism of Kulak farms. The French revolution took a particularly deadly approach.

But none of those states, even Weimar Germany, had the particular issue the US does. Typically, when we look at the petty bourgiois in history,, they have a level of education and a dignified cultural affect. But not here. Here are petty bourgiois are dumb as shiat and openly deny their own status as privileged elite.

Considering the power of the oligarchy its not surprising they don't recognize their own advantages.

So I would guess that only a clash of some sort will break this class. So liberals will probably push for an increased police state which will discipline the petty bourgiois and bring them to heel.

But then that same apparatus will inevitably be turned against the legitimately disgruntled. The poor and working class. The minority who are left out and rolled over by the treads of capital.

Liberals should think carefully going forward. And recognize that the weapons they create to defeat today's enemy can be turned against them tomorrow.
 
2021-01-12 3:32:04 PM  
Insurrection is a matter of perspective.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-01-12 3:37:59 PM  
So denial is what the leftists are going with.

How fast they went from chanting the praises of BLM to, "BLM who?"
 
2021-01-12 3:41:18 PM  

erik-k: Which one is worse?

Remember, we all agreed that the thing after Insurrection claiming to be a trek movie didn't actually happen in order to block out the pain.


Well I'm sorry to spoil your "Highlander 2" joke but think of this mini-review as a form of therapy for me so I can heal.

"Nemesis" had a decent premise, which actually makes it a worse film.

The Romulans create a clone of Picard because somehow they calculate that he'll be a big deal in the Federation someday and they can use the clone to replace him when the time is right. But they scrap the operation and send the clone to a mine of some sort. He escapes and the clone and Picard meet each other and it makes Picard ponder what his life would be if he was treated the way his clone was. That's something a writer can work with. Introspection, all of that.

But instead, the clone Picard is out for revenge (revenge being the theme of almost all Trek films), we have Picard riding a dune buggy, gunning down primitive natives (probably against the Prime Directive) and randomly finding yet another spare Data. From there the movie starts to get bad.

Sorry if this was a threadjack. But I figured we could use the break from all the Trump shiat.
 
2021-01-12 3:41:25 PM  

JonPace: So denial is what the leftists are going with.

How fast they went from chanting the praises of BLM to, "BLM who?"


Ok and if thats the route you guys are going, are you now prepared to call BLM terrorists?

Cant wait to watch you guys tie yourselves into knots over this one
 
2021-01-12 3:48:10 PM  
The old Saturday Night Live defense "I didn't kill anyone. I just gave the orders."
 
2021-01-12 3:48:14 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: It was a violent temper tantrum by grown toddlers with guns. Calling it an insurrection almost lends it legitimacy. Insurrection against injustice is noble. Actions like those of John Brown come to mind. The American revolution itself was an act of bourgiois insurrection against the crown.

Ill try to refer to it as a mob action, a violent white supremacist uprising, an illegitimate act of domestic terrorism or something similar while I seek better descriptors which don't lend it any semblance of legitimacy.


There was something organized in it. Trump obviously incited it. It's already been said that this was a military type planned attack with weapons, trained military people and law enforcement officers helping them. It just wasn't done very well. The fact that they cocked it up doesn't mean that it wasn't a planned attack.
 
2021-01-12 3:49:10 PM  
I appreciate the definition, but I have at least three working brain cells.

For those the benefit of those who don't, perhaps someone can make a parody of this:

Schoolhouse Rock - "Interjections!"
Youtube YQ0696UhWrc
 
2021-01-12 3:49:16 PM  

JonPace: JonPace: So denial is what the leftists are going with.

How fast they went from chanting the praises of BLM to, "BLM who?"

Ok and if thats the route you guys are going, are you now prepared to call BLM terrorists?

Cant wait to watch you guys tie yourselves into knots over this one


There is a distinct difference between BLM and the Trump thugs.

BLM protests are fueld by legitimate economic and civil rights grievances.

Trumper only have cultural grievances and anger at not getting their way.

And by conflating the two you are attempting to draw equivalence between these actions.

If you approach history in a dialectical way, you can recognize that it is not the act of civil disruption, property damage or violence which are inherently immoral, but instead the motivations behind such actions.

The motivations of the fascist petty bourgiois are vile and immoral. The motivations of BLM are noble and morally upright.

You ought to recognize this if you have a shred of moral integrity.
 
2021-01-12 3:49:51 PM  
Looks like now civil disobedience is now considered insurrection.
 
2021-01-12 3:50:19 PM  

Mugato: Conqueror of Bread: It was a violent temper tantrum by grown toddlers with guns. Calling it an insurrection almost lends it legitimacy. Insurrection against injustice is noble. Actions like those of John Brown come to mind. The American revolution itself was an act of bourgiois insurrection against the crown.

Ill try to refer to it as a mob action, a violent white supremacist uprising, an illegitimate act of domestic terrorism or something similar while I seek better descriptors which don't lend it any semblance of legitimacy.

There was something organized in it. Trump obviously incited it. It's already been said that this was a military type planned attack with weapons, trained military people and law enforcement officers helping them. It just wasn't done very well. The fact that they cocked it up doesn't mean that it wasn't a planned attack.


Planning one attack does not a revolution make.

I'm sure there was a level of premeditation but there wasn't a revolutionary plan or organization.
 
2021-01-12 3:50:50 PM  

TheCableGuy: They're revolting alright.


images-na.ssl-images-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2021-01-12 3:57:27 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Planning one attack does not a revolution make.

I'm sure there was a level of premeditation but there wasn't a revolutionary plan or organization.


I didn't say it was an actual revolutionary attempt. That would be stupid even for these morons (yeah the dumb chick who got maced said it was a revolution). The days where an actual revolution where each sides had muskets are over. They just wanted to create chaos, interrupt the ballot counting and the most ambitious wanted to whack Pence. And take a lot of selfies and other self-incriminating evidence.
 
2021-01-12 3:58:13 PM  

GrinzGrimly: I note that nobody seems to care at all if you attack a federal courthouse with explosives and the protestors pounding on the door of the Supreme Court trying to interrupt the Kavanaugh confirmation were downright celebrated by the media so we should be looking for a common standard to discuss these things.


If there were no false equivalencies, conservatives would have no equivalencies.
 
2021-01-12 3:59:45 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Liberals should think carefully going forward


You clearly didn't
 
2021-01-12 4:00:18 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: JonPace: JonPace: So denial is what the leftists are going with.

How fast they went from chanting the praises of BLM to, "BLM who?"

Ok and if thats the route you guys are going, are you now prepared to call BLM terrorists?

Cant wait to watch you guys tie yourselves into knots over this one

There is a distinct difference between BLM and the Trump thugs.

BLM protests are fueld by legitimate economic and civil rights grievances.

Trumper only have cultural grievances and anger at not getting their way.

And by conflating the two you are attempting to draw equivalence between these actions.

If you approach history in a dialectical way, you can recognize that it is not the act of civil disruption, property damage or violence which are inherently immoral, but instead the motivations behind such actions.

The motivations of the fascist petty bourgiois are vile and immoral. The motivations of BLM are noble and morally upright.

You ought to recognize this if you have a shred of moral integrity.


So BLM burning buildings and murdering people was "legitimate" while pro-trumpers loitering on federal property is "terrorism"

That's beside the point that BLM is built on a lie. Unarmed black men dying to police is extremely rare and happening less often every year. The idea that burning cuties and yelling at non-racists to be less racist is a somehow better solution than telling people to stop fighting the police, is absolutely insane.
 
2021-01-12 4:01:24 PM  

JonPace: Cant wait to watch you guys tie yourselves into knots over this one


Says the guy no one thinks is clever, thinking he's been really, really clever.
 
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