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(BBC)   Argentinian Government to it's 1%. "Time to put your obscene wealth to good use folks"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line
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3897 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2020 at 1:34 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2020-12-05 2:26:21 PM  
16 votes:

BlueLivesMatter: meh. Is it really time for Argentina to relearn this lesson already? My how the time flies


Do tell us how wonderful the increasingly lower tax rates have been for the US since the US.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 2:09:28 PM  
13 votes:
What would that buy in the US?

According to the latest Fed data, the top 1% of Americans have a combined net worth of $34.2 trillion
 
2020-12-05 1:54:39 PM  
11 votes:
1% to government: "adios".
I don't like the idea of "one time" taxes because it's too easy  for governments to get used to it.
 
2020-12-05 1:38:09 PM  
11 votes:
Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.
 
2020-12-05 2:43:52 PM  
10 votes:

BlueLivesMatter: meh. Is it really time for Argentina to relearn this lesson already? My how the time flies


Oh look. It's still talking.
 
2020-12-05 5:13:24 PM  
5 votes:

KungFuJunkie: What would that buy in the US?

According to the latest Fed data, the top 1% of Americans have a combined net worth of $34.2 trillion


The problem is, almost ALL of that is contained in illiquid assets - most of which only have value to other people who are ultra rich.

I've used this example before, but take Bill Gates' home in Medina, Washington. On paper, it's worth about $200 million. To anyone else, it's just a bunch of worthless sticks, bricks, glass, and drywall which requires thousands of hours of maintenance and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of upkeep.

Similar to what happened when banks started foreclosing on homes in 2008, it doesn't take much to become obscenely illiquid when it comes to assets. Yachts, high end cars, expensive homes, luxurious appliances, and stocks are all worthless in the context of converting them to a liquid instrument and doing work with them. Nobody is going to thank the government for giving them a $250,000 buffet from Bill Gates. It doesn't keep the lights on, it doesn't heat your home, it doesn't keep you fed, and it certainly doesn't help pay medical bills.

When people say, hey, let's just take some of the trillions of dollars that the rich have ignore that most of that is utterly worthless to anyone BUT the super rich. 

Tell me, if you're hungry, how is a piece of paper saying you own what used to be $1 million worth of Amazon (and is now worthless due to the process of seizing it) going to fill your belly?
 
2020-12-05 3:42:53 PM  
5 votes:

RTOGUY: 1% to government: "adios".
I don't like the idea of "one time" taxes because it's too easy  for governments to get used to it.


Okay, let's make it an annual tax in that case. No more worries!
 
2020-12-05 2:52:14 PM  
5 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 2:27:54 PM  
5 votes:
When I think of responsible government finances, I think of Argentina...

Were this another country, I would take it more seriously, bit it being Argentina I strongly suspect it's a distraction to mask government incompetence.
 
2020-12-05 6:50:23 PM  
4 votes:

Wanderlusting: StatelyGreekAutomaton: Given all the flat this and that you're advocating, what's next, flat income for all, comrade?

Why would I do that? I simply ask that the rich and the poor share equally in the burden of paying for society - if that is the reason why taxes exist. A rich man who pays $100,000 a year in taxes doesn't have 10x the benefits of someone who pays $10,000 a year in taxes. The police don't show up to his house 10x faster. The fire department doesn't respond 10x better. The garbage isn't picked up 10x more often, and the schools aren't 10x better.

If taxes are the cost of society, then we should pay for it on fair terms. A flat tax has proven time and time again to be fair for state income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, Medicare taxes, and Social Security taxes. Why would it be such a horror show to have them be flat for federal income taxes? It's not like flat taxes aren't uncommon nor unprecedented in this country.


I disagree with your examples. Rich people generally do get much better treatment than poor, even if in theory they are offered the same protections. That said you're going to have a hard time telling me that someone who's made a fortune off of shipping hasn't benefited more from infrastructure investment than the average person.
 
2020-12-05 6:36:01 PM  
4 votes:

gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.


Newsflash: Taxing 3.5% of a very rich person's wealth affects their well-being quite a bit less than taxing 1.5% of an average person's wealth.
 
2020-12-05 5:56:25 PM  
4 votes:

gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.


This just in....taxation is not a donation.  It's a cost of living in a society.

/did you totally miss the Evita reference in your rush to proselytize?
 
2020-12-05 3:45:03 PM  
4 votes:
Now all we need is a global alliance between governments to agree to tax the wealthy at a certain level so they can't just take their money elsewhere when a country tries this.
 
2020-12-05 2:50:55 PM  
4 votes:

RTOGUY: 1% to government: "adios".
I don't like the idea of "one time" taxes because it's too easy  for governments to get used to it.


yep  ,, we are only going to use this as a toll bridge to pay for it.

Fast forward 10, 20, 30 years ,We are increasing the tolls on this bridge.
 
2020-12-05 8:18:36 PM  
3 votes:

NotThatGuyAgain: About 4 years ago, almost 5, I started making great money.  I'm no millionaire by any stretch.

Even before that I was very generous towards local charities.  I'm talking anywhere from $3k to $5k in donations.

Guess what happens when people, like the government, tell me they're taking more.  That's right, my discretionary charity spending goes down.

Good job.

/With increased health insurance for 2021, a solid 50% more, and my company's lesser 401k match for 2021, sorry my local charities.  My budget for you isn't as big as it was.


That's weird. You start making a bunch of money and Trump gives the rich folks a huge tax break. Somehow you ended up saying fark charities and were so dumb that you couldn't navigate a health insurance policy.
 
2020-12-05 6:49:01 PM  
3 votes:

Wanderlusting: The good thing about a flat tax, is nobody can say it's unfair. 10% of your income is 10% of your income - regardless if you make $1 or $1 million or $100 million.


No, a flat tax treats everyone equally, which is unfair.
 
2020-12-05 6:38:10 PM  
3 votes:

Wanderlusting: Why would I do that? I simply ask that the rich and the poor share equally in the burden of paying for society


Your request is ridiculous and is hereby denied.
 
2020-12-05 6:28:08 PM  
3 votes:

Wanderlusting: johnny_vegas: gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.

This just in....taxation is not a donation.  It's a cost of living in a society.

Okay, then flat taxes for all, like we do with most state income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, SS taxes, Medicare taxes, and excise taxes. 

Either you believe taxation is the cost of living in a society and we should all pay the same rate, or you believe it's a donation whereby you request some people pay a higher rate than others.

The good thing about a flat tax, is nobody can say it's unfair. 10% of your income is 10% of your income - regardless if you make $1 or $1 million or $100 million.


Given all the flat this and that you're advocating, what's next, flat income for all, comrade?
 
2020-12-05 6:26:35 PM  
3 votes:

gar1013: StatelyGreekAutomaton: gar1013: Nonpo: Now all we need is a global alliance between governments to agree to tax the wealthy at a certain level so they can't just take their money elsewhere when a country tries this.

Why would they do that?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

See also:  California's voters and politicians helping the Texan economy grow.

Why would a country institute child labour laws?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

Except the kids, I guess. But they can be replaced quickly enough.

Countries introduce child labor laws when they can afford to...and then they purchase cheap goods from elsewhere with appalling conditions.

Until that time, they recognize that such laws are a luxury.


The reason a country would raise taxes is ultimately the same reason they would institute child labour laws. In order to try to provide a better standard of living for their citizens, whether that's through allowing kids a childhood free to dedicate to learning and discovery or the ability to afford a better social safety net. Not everyone is keen on a race to the bottom.

And yes, child labour laws are a luxury of our society that I'm glad to have. Do you feel they impede capital as much as higher taxes on the wealthy, or are they not enough of a detriment to be a problem for you?
 
2020-12-05 5:37:26 PM  
3 votes:

Wanderlusting: gar1013: Nonpo: Now all we need is a global alliance between governments to agree to tax the wealthy at a certain level so they can't just take their money elsewhere when a country tries this.

Why would they do that?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

See also:  California's voters and politicians helping the Texan economy grow.

See also: California passing Prop 13 in order to artificially cap property tax rates and attract people to live in their leftist hell hole. I wonder how many people would flee the state if they paid property taxes more commensurate to the rest of the country?


Prop 13 is "soak the newcomer"

Nothing like paying 4x-5x the taxes on a hovel as someone who lives in a fancy house in the hills.
 
2020-12-05 5:30:55 PM  
3 votes:

gar1013: Nonpo: Now all we need is a global alliance between governments to agree to tax the wealthy at a certain level so they can't just take their money elsewhere when a country tries this.

Why would they do that?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

See also:  California's voters and politicians helping the Texan economy grow.


Why would a country institute child labour laws?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

Except the kids, I guess. But they can be replaced quickly enough.
 
2020-12-05 8:48:25 PM  
2 votes:

Wanderlusting: Either you believe taxation is the cost of living in a society and we should all pay the same rate, or you believe it's a donation whereby you request some people pay a higher rate than others.

The good thing about a flat tax, is nobody can say it's unfair. 10% of your income is 10% of your income - regardless if you make $1 or $1 million or $100 million.


Progressive taxes are perfectly fair. You pay the same taxes on the first 50k of your income as someone who only makes 50k.

And the reason progressive taxes exist is this: what percentage of your income goes towards necessities (food, housing, healthcare, etc.?) Now, what percentage of a poor person's income goes towards necessities?
 
2020-12-05 8:04:35 PM  
2 votes:

RTOGUY: Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Wanderlusting: This is the problem with leftist ideology ... your platitudes breakdown at the fringes. 

If taxes are the price we pay for society, then everyone should pay an equal amount. If some people are asked to pay more, it only seems fair that they get a larger share of the benefits as well.

Having substantially more than most others means you already have a larger share of the benefits.

I have a little business and according to the stats I'm making more than the average person. I'm also working 7 days a week so am I not entitled to more for my efforts or should I just work less to keep pace with everyone else? I don't have any great advantages I don't think I'm particularly brilliant and didn't come from wealth but just through busting my ass I've managed to get just little bit further ahead and apparently that is now unfair. Anybody could duplicate what I've done but not everybody seems to want to try. There is however no shortage of people ready to tell me I don't deserve what I've built for myself.


You built a cell for yourself it sounds like. Hope you really enjoy what you do for a living, as it sounds like you have to live that job. Sounds stupid to me, but I guess you really achieved something.
 
2020-12-05 7:49:46 PM  
2 votes:
So many people want to spend other people's money. Here's a thought, go earn your own! Gov redistribution never works. They destroy jobs and then expect you to be happy you get a pittance from them. See current Covid shut downs. Dems want to shut down everything, cost you your job, send you a check every few months for $1,800 and then expect you to be grateful to them. You have to be incredibly stupid to think this is sustainable or even admirable. Oh and you hard core commies out there know you'll never win because rich "progressives" like to virtue signal but once you actually threaten their bank accounts their attitude changes. Ex A: Bezos and the Washington Post going all in against Bernie Sanders. Not that Sanders would win anyways. Ya'll are idiots if you think socialism and "soak" the rich will ever work. Not a single example in history where it has. But hey, keep on believing I guess.
 
2020-12-05 7:15:10 PM  
2 votes:

Wanderlusting: Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Exemptions that mostly benefit the rich.

Except for the child tax credit, education tax credits, EITC, mortgage interest deductions, alternative fuel automotive tax credits, etc. 

Stop with the "woe is me" spiel because it's arguably false. Last time I checked, I've never gotten more from the government than I've paid in, like most low-income earners claiming the EITC get. Almost 27 million households get money back from the government ... for what ... a handout paid for by the rest of us?


Having a future generation generally benefits society.
 
2020-12-05 7:05:03 PM  
2 votes:

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Wanderlusting: This is the problem with leftist ideology ... your platitudes breakdown at the fringes. 

If taxes are the price we pay for society, then everyone should pay an equal amount. If some people are asked to pay more, it only seems fair that they get a larger share of the benefits as well.

Having substantially more than most others means you already have a larger share of the benefits.


I have a little business and according to the stats I'm making more than the average person. I'm also working 7 days a week so am I not entitled to more for my efforts or should I just work less to keep pace with everyone else? I don't have any great advantages I don't think I'm particularly brilliant and didn't come from wealth but just through busting my ass I've managed to get just little bit further ahead and apparently that is now unfair. Anybody could duplicate what I've done but not everybody seems to want to try. There is however no shortage of people ready to tell me I don't deserve what I've built for myself.
 
2020-12-05 7:02:49 PM  
2 votes:

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Exemptions that mostly benefit the rich.


Except for the child tax credit, education tax credits, EITC, mortgage interest deductions, alternative fuel automotive tax credits, etc. 

Stop with the "woe is me" spiel because it's arguably false. Last time I checked, I've never gotten more from the government than I've paid in, like most low-income earners claiming the EITC get. Almost 27 million households get money back from the government ... for what ... a handout paid for by the rest of us?
 
2020-12-05 6:52:04 PM  
2 votes:

Wanderlusting: This is the problem with leftist ideology ... your platitudes breakdown at the fringes. 

If taxes are the price we pay for society, then everyone should pay an equal amount. If some people are asked to pay more, it only seems fair that they get a larger share of the benefits as well.


Having substantially more than most others means you already have a larger share of the benefits.
 
2020-12-05 6:42:12 PM  
2 votes:

iron de havilland: Wanderlusting: In fact, most of Western Europe has a lower minimum labor rate for minors, thereby making it cheaper to hire minors.

So much for the great myth of the wonderful democratic socialist utopia that is Europe ...

Wanderlusting: Flat taxes work in Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK just fine. If their healthcare systems are so great for everyone, why not their taxation systems?

Oh sweety, you're going to have to put a lot of work into your shtick to make it at least internally consistent within individual threads before you're going to get big hauls of bites.


Minimum wage (UK):
Fark user imageView Full Size


Norway and Sweden don't even have a minimum wage.

All of the countries I listed have flat taxes at the subnational level.
 
2020-12-05 6:36:36 PM  
2 votes:

Wanderlusting: In fact, most of Western Europe has a lower minimum labor rate for minors, thereby making it cheaper to hire minors.

So much for the great myth of the wonderful democratic socialist utopia that is Europe ...


Wanderlusting: Flat taxes work in Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK just fine. If their healthcare systems are so great for everyone, why not their taxation systems?


Oh sweety, you're going to have to put a lot of work into your shtick to make it at least internally consistent within individual threads before you're going to get big hauls of bites.
 
2020-12-05 5:21:41 PM  
2 votes:

Nonpo: Now all we need is a global alliance between governments to agree to tax the wealthy at a certain level so they can't just take their money elsewhere when a country tries this.


Why would they do that?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

See also:  California's voters and politicians helping the Texan economy grow.
 
2020-12-05 4:24:34 PM  
2 votes:

RTOGUY: 1% to government: "adios".
I don't like the idea of "one time" taxes because it's too easy  for governments to get used to it.


I don't like the idea of plutocrats. They always take over the government and destroy society if it means they can add one more shiny penny to their obscene hoards of wealth
 
2020-12-05 3:24:45 PM  
2 votes:
Don't tax them.  Have the military show up at their front door and politely ask them to donate to the cause.  Then, those that don't donate, pass a law making them criminals, then confiscate all their wealth.  Problem solved.  Keep around the people that do things "willingly".
 
2020-12-05 2:30:35 PM  
2 votes:

RTOGUY: 1% to government: "adios".
I don't like the idea of "one time" taxes because it's too easy  for governments to get used to it.


The top 1% in Argentina are basically the top 25% of most other countries so I doubt they're going anywhere.

Also - wahwahwah.
 
2020-12-05 2:11:29 PM  
2 votes:
...And the the ghost of Ayn Rand is urging the Argentine wealth creators to shout out: "¡Por favor sålvame, Juan Galt! ¡Los moochers, saqueadores y putrefactos se están acercando!"
 
2020-12-06 7:25:07 PM  
1 vote:

Polyonymous: I... am just flabbergasted by the apparent bad faith from the bootstrap brigade here. Y'all have managed to threadshiat this impressively.

Terribly, yes, but impressively.


Troll post volume has stepped up like crazy. It's all weaksauce shiat, mind, they have *literally* nothing after all.

Why? How is it a good investment?
 
2020-12-06 2:28:11 PM  
1 vote:

trialpha: RTOGUY: Wanderlusting: trialpha: Wanderlusting: I'll put it this way: I was still living in a studio apartment eating Ramen noodles earning six figures. Why? Because I was able to save 75% of everything I was earning which gave me the cash to make moves while everyone else was panicking.

Aka, you got lucky, in that you lived in a time where such an event existed and you hadn't already invested that cash. Would you be anywhere near as close to that 5.6 million you want today if you had just been earning the usual 5% normal investments gain?

The boom/bust cycle isn't luck. It happens - every 10-20 years, like clockwork in this country.

It doesn't matter because to angry Fark communists anybody with money is the enemy and even hard work  is suspect. There is probably some connection there.

You assume that I don't have money. I do; I just acknowledge that a large portion of it was due to luck.


That's just what socialists with money say to make themselves feel better. Unless your money came from the lottery it's okay to say you earned it.
 
2020-12-06 2:05:39 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: trialpha: Wanderlusting: I'll put it this way: I was still living in a studio apartment eating Ramen noodles earning six figures. Why? Because I was able to save 75% of everything I was earning which gave me the cash to make moves while everyone else was panicking.

Aka, you got lucky, in that you lived in a time where such an event existed and you hadn't already invested that cash. Would you be anywhere near as close to that 5.6 million you want today if you had just been earning the usual 5% normal investments gain?

The boom/bust cycle isn't luck. It happens - every 10-20 years, like clockwork in this country.


It doesn't matter because to angry Fark communists anybody with money is the enemy and even hard work  is suspect. There is probably some connection there.
 
2020-12-06 11:57:07 AM  
1 vote:

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: RTOGUY: I have a little business and according to the stats I'm making more than the average person. I'm also working 7 days a week so am I not entitled to more for my efforts or should I just work less to keep pace with everyone else? I don't have any great advantages I don't think I'm particularly brilliant and didn't come from wealth but just through busting my ass I've managed to get just little bit further ahead and apparently that is now unfair. Anybody could duplicate what I've done but not everybody seems to want to try. There is however no shortage of people ready to tell me I don't deserve what I've built for myself.

"Anybody could duplicate what I've done..."

No, they could not.

Furthermore, I ask of you the same question I would ask of others doing what you're doing: you're working 7 days a week? Long hours? Why? You're working yourself to death for what benefit? To earn money you wont have time to enjoy? To retire early, while hoping you haven't done long term damage to your health the way you got there? To buy expensive material assets that won't actually make you happy?


...said the grasshopper to the ant.
 
2020-12-06 11:49:21 AM  
1 vote:

RTOGUY: I have a little business and according to the stats I'm making more than the average person. I'm also working 7 days a week so am I not entitled to more for my efforts or should I just work less to keep pace with everyone else? I don't have any great advantages I don't think I'm particularly brilliant and didn't come from wealth but just through busting my ass I've managed to get just little bit further ahead and apparently that is now unfair. Anybody could duplicate what I've done but not everybody seems to want to try. There is however no shortage of people ready to tell me I don't deserve what I've built for myself.


"Anybody could duplicate what I've done..."

No, they could not.

Furthermore, I ask of you the same question I would ask of others doing what you're doing: you're working 7 days a week? Long hours? Why? You're working yourself to death for what benefit? To earn money you wont have time to enjoy? To retire early, while hoping you haven't done long term damage to your health the way you got there? To buy expensive material assets that won't actually make you happy?
 
2020-12-05 9:55:03 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: KungFuJunkie: What would that buy in the US?

According to the latest Fed data, the top 1% of Americans have a combined net worth of $34.2 trillion

The problem is, almost ALL of that is contained in illiquid assets - most of which only have value to other people who are ultra rich.

I've used this example before, but take Bill Gates' home in Medina, Washington. On paper, it's worth about $200 million. To anyone else, it's just a bunch of worthless sticks, bricks, glass, and drywall which requires thousands of hours of maintenance and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of upkeep.

Similar to what happened when banks started foreclosing on homes in 2008, it doesn't take much to become obscenely illiquid when it comes to assets. Yachts, high end cars, expensive homes, luxurious appliances, and stocks are all worthless in the context of converting them to a liquid instrument and doing work with them. Nobody is going to thank the government for giving them a $250,000 buffet from Bill Gates. It doesn't keep the lights on, it doesn't heat your home, it doesn't keep you fed, and it certainly doesn't help pay medical bills.

When people say, hey, let's just take some of the trillions of dollars that the rich have ignore that most of that is utterly worthless to anyone BUT the super rich. 

Tell me, if you're hungry, how is a piece of paper saying you own what used to be $1 million worth of Amazon (and is now worthless due to the process of seizing it) going to fill your belly?


I have it in good authority that all of bezos' money is under his mattress.
 
2020-12-05 9:51:33 PM  
1 vote:

AmbassadorBooze: Don't tax them.  Have the military show up at their front door and politely ask them to donate to the cause.  Then, those that don't donate, pass a law making them criminals, then confiscate all their wealth.  Problem solved.  Keep around the people that do things "willingly".


Not sure if serious.jpg
 
2020-12-05 9:45:17 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: Well, yes. You just described the entire motivating argument for capitalism.

If you don't want to eat Ramen noodles in a hovel in Youngstown, work harder and succeed.

Those who earn a better life, GET a better life. For those who only want to live in a cardboard box and scraps of dumpster food, that's certainly a decision they can make for themselves.

The success for me and my family is what has driven me to make the decisions i did in my life.

I'm sorry some people don't have the intestinal fortitude to do what is necessary, but then again, there are parents who beat their kids too, so it's not surprising so many people would be looking for an easy way out.


Ah, you're one of the fools who believes hard work is necessary and sufficient to succeed in life.
 
2020-12-05 9:32:33 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: trialpha: Wanderlusting: Either you believe taxation is the cost of living in a society and we should all pay the same rate, or you believe it's a donation whereby you request some people pay a higher rate than others.

The good thing about a flat tax, is nobody can say it's unfair. 10% of your income is 10% of your income - regardless if you make $1 or $1 million or $100 million.

Progressive taxes are perfectly fair. You pay the same taxes on the first 50k of your income as someone who only makes 50k.

And the reason progressive taxes exist is this: what percentage of your income goes towards necessities (food, housing, healthcare, etc.?) Now, what percentage of a poor person's income goes towards necessities?

The utility of money argument fails because our economic system doesn't determine the price of a roll of toilet paper or a hair cut or a Big Mac based on how much you earn.

Money is money. If someone poor wants to spend less of it on those things, they can eat Ramen noodles and live in Youngstown, Ohio if they don't want to spend all their money on rent.


And there we have it. If you want a decent hair cut you should eat ramen noodles. Wipe your ass with a leaf or afford decent food; your choice. Nice.
 
2020-12-05 9:30:03 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: The utility of money argument fails because our economic system doesn't determine the price of a roll of toilet paper or a hair cut or a Big Mac based on how much you earn.

Money is money. If someone poor wants to spend less of it on those things, they can eat Ramen noodles and live in Youngstown, Ohio if they don't want to spend all their money on rent.


Our economic system doesn't determine the price of <good> based off of how much you earn, which is exactly why the tax system - which is based off of how much you earn - is modified slightly to compensate.

Progressive taxes are an acknowledgement that there is an inherent floor in necessities, and practically a max. That poor person eating Ramen noodles and living in Youngstown Ohio will still be spending more of their income on those than a rich person will be spending on their more expensive equivalent elsewhere.
 
2020-12-05 8:55:16 PM  
1 vote:

trialpha: Wanderlusting: Either you believe taxation is the cost of living in a society and we should all pay the same rate, or you believe it's a donation whereby you request some people pay a higher rate than others.

The good thing about a flat tax, is nobody can say it's unfair. 10% of your income is 10% of your income - regardless if you make $1 or $1 million or $100 million.

Progressive taxes are perfectly fair. You pay the same taxes on the first 50k of your income as someone who only makes 50k.

And the reason progressive taxes exist is this: what percentage of your income goes towards necessities (food, housing, healthcare, etc.?) Now, what percentage of a poor person's income goes towards necessities?


That was well stated.
 
2020-12-05 8:40:54 PM  
1 vote:

majestic: Wanderlusting: iron de havilland: So you like the Soviet model, where workers are thankful for their jobs?

My entire goal in life was to get to the point whereby my passive income exceeded my salary and I'm close. I don't particular like what I chose as a career, but I was reasonably good at it and it gave me the opportunities to stack my income in the early part of my career in order to capitalize on the cyclical boom/bust cycle. I made my first million in the market crash when I leveraged my cash holdings to purchase several short sales and then continued buying and selling property as the market improved. In March, I threw almost my entire life's savings in the market as it was hitting historic lows and quadrupled my investments this year.

Again, I'll have time for leisure later. I'd rather spend the most productive years of my life working for my family so that I can spend the later years enjoying my life. It's worked for me.

Luck favors the prepared.

You are so FOS.


Seeing your replies to me and others, you're just an asshole.
 
2020-12-05 8:31:47 PM  
1 vote:

NotThatGuyAgain: majestic: NotThatGuyAgain: About 4 years ago, almost 5, I started making great money.  I'm no millionaire by any stretch.

Even before that I was very generous towards local charities.  I'm talking anywhere from $3k to $5k in donations.

Guess what happens when people, like the government, tell me they're taking more.  That's right, my discretionary charity spending goes down.

Good job.

/With increased health insurance for 2021, a solid 50% more, and my company's lesser 401k match for 2021, sorry my local charities.  My budget for you isn't as big as it was.

That's weird. You start making a bunch of money and Trump gives the rich folks a huge tax break. Somehow you ended up saying fark charities and were so dumb that you couldn't navigate a health insurance policy.

I don't even know how to respond to your uninformed, trolly, douchebag opinion.

Am I supposed to fark up my own personal expenses to assist charity?  Great plan, Sofa King.


Naw. You should, however, reconsider your belief in charity if you only contribute when you can write it off.
 
2020-12-05 8:22:05 PM  
1 vote:

RTOGUY: Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Wanderlusting: This is the problem with leftist ideology ... your platitudes breakdown at the fringes.

If taxes are the price we pay for society, then everyone should pay an equal amount. If some people are asked to pay more, it only seems fair that they get a larger share of the benefits as well.

Having substantially more than most others means you already have a larger share of the benefits.

I have a little business and according to the stats I'm making more than the average person. I'm also working 7 days a week so am I not entitled to more for my efforts or should I just work less to keep pace with everyone else? I don't have any great advantages I don't think I'm particularly brilliant and didn't come from wealth but just through busting my ass I've managed to get just little bit further ahead and apparently that is now unfair. Anybody could duplicate what I've done but not everybody seems to want to try. There is however no shortage of people ready to tell me I don't deserve what I've built for myself.


Nobody's saying that it's unfair to do better by working more; the question is how much better.  If you're only "just a little bit further ahead" then you're not the target of taxes like these.  Those who are doing so well that they are the target of a wealth tax will still be doing extremely well after paying the tax.
 
2020-12-05 8:20:38 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: iron de havilland: So you like the Soviet model, where workers are thankful for their jobs?

My entire goal in life was to get to the point whereby my passive income exceeded my salary and I'm close. I don't particular like what I chose as a career, but I was reasonably good at it and it gave me the opportunities to stack my income in the early part of my career in order to capitalize on the cyclical boom/bust cycle. I made my first million in the market crash when I leveraged my cash holdings to purchase several short sales and then continued buying and selling property as the market improved. In March, I threw almost my entire life's savings in the market as it was hitting historic lows and quadrupled my investments this year.

Again, I'll have time for leisure later. I'd rather spend the most productive years of my life working for my family so that I can spend the later years enjoying my life. It's worked for me.

Luck favors the prepared.


You are so FOS.
 
2020-12-05 8:06:46 PM  
1 vote:
About 4 years ago, almost 5, I started making great money.  I'm no millionaire by any stretch.

Even before that I was very generous towards local charities.  I'm talking anywhere from $3k to $5k in donations.

Guess what happens when people, like the government, tell me they're taking more.  That's right, my discretionary charity spending goes down.

Good job.

/With increased health insurance for 2021, a solid 50% more, and my company's lesser 401k match for 2021, sorry my local charities.  My budget for you isn't as big as it was.
 
2020-12-05 8:04:12 PM  
1 vote:

iron de havilland: RTOGUY: Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Wanderlusting: This is the problem with leftist ideology ... your platitudes breakdown at the fringes.
If taxes are the price we pay for society, then everyone should pay an equal amount. If some people are asked to pay more, it only seems fair that they get a larger share of the benefits as well.

Having substantially more than most others means you already have a larger share of the benefits.

I have a little business and according to the stats I'm making more than the average person. I'm also working 7 days a week so am I not entitled to more for my efforts or should I just work less to keep pace with everyone else?

I'd question your sanity. You don't want to take time off for family, or leisure?

You want to work yourself into the grave with no joy in your life?

I don't have any great advantages I don't think I'm particularly brilliant and didn't come from wealth but just through busting my ass I've managed to get just little bit further ahead and apparently that is now unfair. Anybody could duplicate what I've done but not everybody seems to want to try. There is however no shortage of people ready to tell me I don't deserve what I've built for myself.

Jesus, it sounds like you deserve better than what you have.


For some of us, amassing wealth is more important than leisure and gives us joy. It's horrifying to then have people stick their hands into my pockets saying I should pay for their failure to work by the same standards that have earned me the life I live.

To some of us, earning enough to live on passive investments is the end goal. Maybe you have different goals, but my goals are to retire before my children graduate from high school. I'm nearly there. These last few years has been a boon for my investments in real estate as working myself to the bone gave me the cash to buy in at the bottom of the recession in 2009 and buy in again in March of this year. While everyone else was pissing their pants, I quadrupled my money by being shrewd in my past. 

Remember - recessions are good for those who are prepared and terrible for those who aren't. I'd rather be the one prepared than the one in a panic.
 
2020-12-05 7:38:37 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: No, a flat tax treats everyone equally, which is unfair.

Why shouldn't tax treat everyone equally? Do you think our justice system should treat everyone equally? Do you think our educational system should treat everyone equally? Do you think our banking and lending system should treat everyone equally? 

How can you possibly make the argument that we should treat anyone unequally?


None of those treat people equally either.
 
2020-12-05 7:05:31 PM  
1 vote:

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: No, a flat tax treats everyone equally, which is unfair.


Why shouldn't tax treat everyone equally? Do you think our justice system should treat everyone equally? Do you think our educational system should treat everyone equally? Do you think our banking and lending system should treat everyone equally? 

How can you possibly make the argument that we should treat anyone unequally?
 
2020-12-05 7:03:31 PM  
1 vote:

johnny_vegas: I don't think ANY of the countries you listed have a flat personal income tax, which would be relevant to the topic.


They all do. Just at the subnational/provincial level, like the US does.
 
2020-12-05 6:59:49 PM  
1 vote:

StatelyGreekAutomaton: I disagree with your examples. Rich people generally do get much better treatment than poor, even if in theory they are offered the same protections. That said you're going to have a hard time telling me that someone who's made a fortune off of shipping hasn't benefited more from infrastructure investment than the average person.


I'm willing to bet someone who does a lot of shipping pays more in fuel taxes than you. Which is the point. If you use the roads more, you use more fuel, so you need to contribute more. Incidentally, this is why leftists get all pissy when states pass laws to increase the taxes on electric cars because they aren't contributing ANYTHING to the roadways on which they drive.
 
2020-12-05 6:57:22 PM  
1 vote:

Not_Todd: We don't have a flat tax because there is so much power in carving out exemptions in the current system.


Exemptions that mostly benefit the rich.
 
2020-12-05 6:48:20 PM  
1 vote:

gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.


Theres a world of difference in the common man with a 200k house (or in my case, 120k) & my meager retirement and investments (currently 180k in retirement) to hopefully take care of me when i'm old, and people with 10,50, 100 million in investments and bullshiat.

However, if it would guarantee that these kind of people would be forced to pay their share? to pay into social security past the current limits? Take it.  Take 1.5 percent of my money.  Take it for the good of society.   Make the ultra rich movie stars, tech billionaires, and generational wealth families do it too.  I'd be okay with it.   It just might help ensure shiat like social security and safety nets aren't gone in 25 or 50 years.
 
2020-12-05 6:34:57 PM  
1 vote:

StatelyGreekAutomaton: Given all the flat this and that you're advocating, what's next, flat income for all, comrade?


Why would I do that? I simply ask that the rich and the poor share equally in the burden of paying for society - if that is the reason why taxes exist. A rich man who pays $100,000 a year in taxes doesn't have 10x the benefits of someone who pays $10,000 a year in taxes. The police don't show up to his house 10x faster. The fire department doesn't respond 10x better. The garbage isn't picked up 10x more often, and the schools aren't 10x better.

If taxes are the cost of society, then we should pay for it on fair terms. A flat tax has proven time and time again to be fair for state income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, Medicare taxes, and Social Security taxes. Why would it be such a horror show to have them be flat for federal income taxes? It's not like flat taxes aren't uncommon nor unprecedented in this country.
 
2020-12-05 6:21:50 PM  
1 vote:

gar1013: johnny_vegas: gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.

This just in....taxation is not a donation.  It's a cost of living in a society.

/did you totally miss the Evita reference in your rush to proselytize?

Well, since many people don't pay federal income taxes, does that mean they have to leave?


And obviously yes, you DID miss the Evita reference
 
2020-12-05 6:19:14 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: Either you believe taxation is the cost of living in a society and we should all pay the same rate, or you believe it's a donation whereby you request some people pay a higher rate than others.


This is a prime, contextually correct example of 'begging the question'
 
2020-12-05 6:16:52 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: So much for the great myth of the wonderful democratic socialist utopia that is Europe ...


'They' do call it that, don't 'they'?

Pesky them! Always whispering in conservative ears.
 
2020-12-05 6:16:30 PM  
1 vote:

johnny_vegas: gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.

This just in....taxation is not a donation.  It's a cost of living in a society.


Okay, then flat taxes for all, like we do with most state income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, SS taxes, Medicare taxes, and excise taxes. 

Either you believe taxation is the cost of living in a society and we should all pay the same rate, or you believe it's a donation whereby you request some people pay a higher rate than others.

The good thing about a flat tax, is nobody can say it's unfair. 10% of your income is 10% of your income - regardless if you make $1 or $1 million or $100 million.
 
2020-12-05 6:13:46 PM  
1 vote:

johnny_vegas: gar1013: johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.

Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.

This just in....taxation is not a donation.  It's a cost of living in a society.

/did you totally miss the Evita reference in your rush to proselytize?


Well, since many people don't pay federal income taxes, does that mean they have to leave?
 
2020-12-05 5:38:41 PM  
1 vote:

StatelyGreekAutomaton: gar1013: Nonpo: Now all we need is a global alliance between governments to agree to tax the wealthy at a certain level so they can't just take their money elsewhere when a country tries this.

Why would they do that?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

See also:  California's voters and politicians helping the Texan economy grow.

Why would a country institute child labour laws?

A country will benefit tremendously by NOT doing that and allowing capital to flow in, which is good for businesses and lowers the cost of goods and credit for consumers.

Except the kids, I guess. But they can be replaced quickly enough.


Countries introduce child labor laws when they can afford to...and then they purchase cheap goods from elsewhere with appalling conditions.

Until that time, they recognize that such laws are a luxury.
 
2020-12-05 5:17:29 PM  
1 vote:

johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.


Donate 1.5% of ALL your wealth and then get back to us.

That includes the value of your home equity, as well as any retirement accounts.
 
2020-12-05 2:26:56 PM  
1 vote:

ElecricalPast: BlueLivesMatter: meh. Is it really time for Argentina to relearn this lesson already? My how the time flies

Do tell us how wonderful the increasingly lower tax rates have been for the US since the US.

[Fark user image 600x600]


Since the '80s

Bah. Typos.
 
2020-12-05 1:47:26 PM  
1 vote:

johnny_vegas: Please it's only ~3.5%.  Don't cry for me.


Yeah, looks like it's ramen noodles 5 nights a week for those poor bastards.
 
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