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(Abc.net.au)   AI Researcher: I'll quit if you don't give into my demands. Google: We accept your terms   (abc.net.au) divider line
    More: Interesting, Artificial intelligence, Facial recognition system, Google employees, Dr Gebru, Timnit Gebru, mentions Google's own new technology, open letter, Google managers  
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1113 clicks; posted to STEM » on 05 Dec 2020 at 12:35 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



30 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-12-05 10:49:20 AM  
Some people will have no problem getting a new job.
 
2020-12-05 1:09:11 PM  
Repeat
 
2020-12-05 1:41:45 PM  
Google told her to publish her paper just the way it is. They didn't censure it in any way, they even paid her to do the research and write the thing. They asked her to not put their name on it for valid reasons that have nothing to do with race or other forms of diversity.
Her real PhD is in Victimization.
 
2020-12-05 2:08:06 PM  
It's fortunate for her that she didn't threaten to kill herself.
 
2020-12-05 2:26:59 PM  
When ultimatums go wrong.
 
2020-12-05 2:32:31 PM  

FarkingSmurf: When ultimatums go wrong.


or right.  I posted to quickly.
 
2020-12-05 2:45:16 PM  
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2020-12-05 2:47:26 PM  

spaceman375: Google told her to publish her paper just the way it is. They didn't censure it in any way, they even paid her to do the research and write the thing. They asked her to not put their name on it for valid reasons that have nothing to do with race or other forms of diversity.
Her real PhD is in Victimization.


LOL.  No.

She worked on a paper with several others that didn't paint Google in a pristine light.

Google made up a reason to fire her, just like they made up reasons to fire others for discussing unionization.

Claiming that she quit when she says she was fired, is just like they are begging for the Streisand effect to come into play.

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2020-12-05 4:09:14 PM  
She sounds both insanely brilliant and a massive drama queen.
 
2020-12-05 4:34:17 PM  

BullBearMS: Google made up a reason to fire her, just like they made up reasons to fire others for discussing unionization.

Claiming that she quit when she says she was fired, is just like they are begging for the Streisand effect to come into play.


I mean, if she says "I quit if you don't do X", and the company says "we won't do X so we accept your resignation", how is it their fault she is now unemployed?

Maybe she shouldn't have taunted the dynamite monkey.
 
2020-12-05 5:00:08 PM  

DerAppie: I mean, if she says "I quit if you don't do X"


Except for the part where she never said that at all?

They lied and made up an excuse to fire the uppity black woman.

Just like they lied when they fired the people who were discussing their federally protected right to unionize.

As the Googlers above have posted on twitter, Google has never told employees that they couldn't publish academic papers, until the uppity black woman worked on a paper that they didn't like.
 
2020-12-05 5:08:37 PM  

BullBearMS: DerAppie: I mean, if she says "I quit if you don't do X"

Except for the part where she never said that at all?

They lied and made up an excuse to fire the uppity black woman.

Just like they lied when they fired the people who were discussing their federally protected right to unionize.

As the Googlers above have posted on twitter, Google has never told employees that they couldn't publish academic papers, until the uppity black woman worked on a paper that they didn't like.


Okay, so lets assume she never tried to make the principled stand with google, and google made up a lie for firing her. My question would now be "if they fire people for inconveniencing google (such as talking about unions), why assume it is racsism now instead of google firing people who are inconvenient to them?" Cause if they are firing people who do not toe the party line, and she wasn't going to toe the party line, then she got treated the same as everyone else.
 
2020-12-05 5:21:31 PM  

DerAppie: BullBearMS: DerAppie: I mean, if she says "I quit if you don't do X"

Okay, so lets assume she never tried to make the principled stand with google, and google made up a lie for firing her. My question would now be "if they fire people for inconveniencing google (such as talking about unions), why assume it is racsism now instead of google firing people who are inconvenient to them?" Cause if they are firing people who do not toe the party line, and she wasn't going to toe the party line, then she got treated the same as everyone else.


^This.  You push back at Google, you get fired. It's not ok but it's what they do.  Those who paid attention to what happened to (white male) James Damore after his (widely mischaracterized) memo are not surprised by what's happening now to Timnit Gebru.
 
2020-12-05 5:28:57 PM  
the NLRB accused the company of spying on employees during a 2019 effort to organise a union

That is so out of character for them.
 
2020-12-05 5:55:33 PM  

ShapeShift3r: DerAppie: BullBearMS: DerAppie: I mean, if she says "I quit if you don't do X"

Okay, so lets assume she never tried to make the principled stand with google, and google made up a lie for firing her. My question would now be "if they fire people for inconveniencing google (such as talking about unions), why assume it is racsism now instead of google firing people who are inconvenient to them?" Cause if they are firing people who do not toe the party line, and she wasn't going to toe the party line, then she got treated the same as everyone else.

^This.  You push back at Google, you get fired. It's not ok but it's what they do.  Those who paid attention to what happened to (white male) James Damore after his (widely mischaracterized) memo are not surprised by what's happening now to Timnit Gebru.


But it fit my narrative world when the white nazi male was fired.  So it is OK.  It does not fit my narrative world for it to be OK to fire a non white, non male, non nazi.  So the firing was wrong.
 
2020-12-05 5:55:41 PM  

BullBearMS: DerAppie: I mean, if she says "I quit if you don't do X"

Except for the part where she never said that at all?


She literally confirms this herself in TFA.
 
2020-12-05 6:04:53 PM  
When I first read the headline I thought the research er was an AI.

Speaking of, y'all remember Creatures?

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2020-12-05 6:21:07 PM  
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RIP
 
2020-12-05 6:25:38 PM  
So I decided to read the emails linked on platformer.

Seeing how they describe completely different realities it should be easy to show at least one side to be telling a lie (the easiest would be "left waiting for 2 months" vs "submitted for the internal review 1 with one day to spare when the process usually takes 2 weeks"). Too bad journalists only copy from twitter and don't do research.
 
2020-12-05 6:32:13 PM  

DerAppie: So I decided to read the emails linked on platformer.

Seeing how they describe completely different realities it should be easy to show at least one side to be telling a lie (the easiest would be "left waiting for 2 months" vs "submitted for the internal review 1 with one day to spare when the process usually takes 2 weeks"). Too bad journalists only copy from twitter and don't do research.


I feel like there must be some missing emails. Otherwise I'm not exactly sure what the ultimatum was.
 
2020-12-05 6:56:25 PM  
Are we pretending Google doesn't have a history of treating women like shiat?

Google was founded by a guy who told HR that female employees were his to do with as he liked.

Ayers said in the excerpt that when the company's human-resources department raised eyebrows at Brin's behavior, Brin suggested he was entitled to engage with his employees in whatever manner he saw fit. "HR told me that Sergey's response to it was, 'Why not? They're my employees,'" Ayers said. "But you don't have employees for farking! That's not what the job is."

Then there is Google paying a 90 million dollar bonus to the dude who created Android after he was fired for sexually assaulting a female subordinate.

Google investigated and concluded her claim was credible, said the people, who spoke on the condition that they not be named, citing confidentiality agreements. Mr. Rubin was notified, they said, and Mr. Page asked for his resignation. Google could have fired Mr. Rubin and paid him little to nothing on the way out. Instead, the company handed him a $90 million exit package

Google has a history of scummy behavior towards women and they have a history of lying about the people they fire.

Now they decided to fire a researcher who worked on a paper they don't like.
 
2020-12-05 7:02:13 PM  

StatelyGreekAutomaton: DerAppie: So I decided to read the emails linked on platformer.

Seeing how they describe completely different realities it should be easy to show at least one side to be telling a lie (the easiest would be "left waiting for 2 months" vs "submitted for the internal review 1 with one day to spare when the process usually takes 2 weeks"). Too bad journalists only copy from twitter and don't do research.

I feel like there must be some missing emails. Otherwise I'm not exactly sure what the ultimatum was.


They told her she couldn't publish a paper and she wanted to know who at Google had made that decision and what their reason for blocking her paper was.

She was troubled when the senior manager insisted she and other Google authors either remove their names from the paper or retract it altogether, particularly when she couldn't learn the process used to review the draft.
 
2020-12-05 8:05:18 PM  

BullBearMS: StatelyGreekAutomaton: DerAppie: So I decided to read the emails linked on platformer.

Seeing how they describe completely different realities it should be easy to show at least one side to be telling a lie (the easiest would be "left waiting for 2 months" vs "submitted for the internal review 1 with one day to spare when the process usually takes 2 weeks"). Too bad journalists only copy from twitter and don't do research.

I feel like there must be some missing emails. Otherwise I'm not exactly sure what the ultimatum was.

They told her she couldn't publish a paper and she wanted to know who at Google had made that decision and what their reason for blocking her paper was.

She was troubled when the senior manager insisted she and other Google authors either remove their names from the paper or retract it altogether, particularly when she couldn't learn the process used to review the draft.


Ah, okay. That article is much more clear. I don't think she was being unreasonable, but I'm not particularly surprised any large company would employ HR managers petty enough to take that as an actual offer of resignation.
 
2020-12-05 10:15:19 PM  
There's so much bullshiat in this thread I could smell it from the politics tab.
 
2020-12-05 10:23:00 PM  

DerAppie: Okay, so lets assume she never tried to make the principled stand with google, and google made up a lie for firing her. My question would now be "if they fire people for inconveniencing google (such as talking about unions), why assume it is racsism now instead of google firing people who are inconvenient to them?" Cause if they are firing people who do not toe the party line, and she wasn't going to toe the party line, then she got treated the same as everyone else.


Could be the white guys who said they gave ultimatums, and also presented papers, and it didn't work out the same way?

First off when you submit a conference paper you have plenty of time to change it especially after review. So Deans excuse is bullshiat. Second of all they must've known what she was working on, she probably wasn't quiet about it. Why wait until the last minute, is Google that stupid? Oh no a multi billion dollar company can't handle reading a paper before it's published in months from submission. Lastly, her email fired off the Brain women told them that the diversity lip service was bullshiat. Google needs to own that shiat.
 
2020-12-05 10:58:11 PM  
As someone pointed out on Twitter, this smacks of someone already marked to be fired with hr just looking for an excuse. If her boss hadn't been so gung-ho, no one would have realized she was marked.
 
2020-12-06 3:31:18 AM  

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: DerAppie: Okay, so lets assume she never tried to make the principled stand with google, and google made up a lie for firing her. My question would now be "if they fire people for inconveniencing google (such as talking about unions), why assume it is racsism now instead of google firing people who are inconvenient to them?" Cause if they are firing people who do not toe the party line, and she wasn't going to toe the party line, then she got treated the same as everyone else.

Could be the white guys who said they gave ultimatums, and also presented papers, and it didn't work out the same way?


Did they say they gave ultimatums? From what I read in tfa they only said the review process only checked for confidential information with them.

First off when you submit a conference paper you have plenty of time to change it especially after review. So Deans excuse is bullshiat. Second of all they must've known what she was working on, she probably wasn't quiet about it. Why wait until the last minute, is Google that stupid? Oh no a multi billion dollar company can't handle reading a paper before it's published in months from submission

Wait to the last minute with what exactly? Blocking the research before it is completed? Reviewing the article before it is finished?

As for the department at google needing more time to review the article/have the article reviewed, I'm pretty sure they have more to do than wait until one person submits a paper.

Google says it was submitted for review with 1 day to spare. I wish there was some sort of profession that gathered newsworthy stories and did some research into the facts. I'm sure a member of that profession could check the dates. It seems easy enough.

Lastly, her email fired off the Brain women told them that the diversity lip service was bullshiat. Google needs to own that shiat.

Is google being an asshole in this story? Yes. Is google being a rascist asshole? Not from what I read so far.
 
2020-12-06 7:55:01 AM  
"Don't be evil"
 
2020-12-06 11:44:32 AM  
 
2020-12-06 4:20:57 PM  

ShapeShift3r: (white male) James Damore after his (widely mischaracterized) memo


....Uh huh.
 
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