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(Polygon)   Cybercrunch 24/7   (polygon.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Video game, Video game industry, CD Projekt Red, six-day work weeks, video games of the past decade, final stage, video game industry, release date  
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1459 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 05 Dec 2020 at 12:30 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



42 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-12-04 6:50:31 PM  
Boohoo crunch. Better crunch or else Germany will invade Poland again.
 
2020-12-04 6:53:33 PM  
Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).
 
2020-12-04 6:58:16 PM  
Maybe you should've worked harder this past summer (said every manager of programmers ever).
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2020-12-04 7:02:50 PM  
Eh, i'm just gonna enjoy it.
 
2020-12-04 7:12:30 PM  
Is this the same group working on the new Duke Nukem? Still wondering on a release date.
 
2020-12-04 7:23:28 PM  

Xai: Eh, i'm just gonna enjoy it.


Yeah, I think I will too.  I'm torn between getting it next Wednesday night or waiting a few weeks for the bugs to be patched.

/Think I'll wait.
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2020-12-04 7:26:42 PM  

kudayta: Xai: Eh, i'm just gonna enjoy it.

Yeah, I think I will too.  I'm torn between getting it next Wednesday night or waiting a few weeks for the bugs to be patched.

/Think I'll wait.


I'm gonna get it first thing, I know there will be bugs, but i expect they'll be more red-dead comedy than sim city unplayable.
 
2020-12-04 7:33:27 PM  

Xai: kudayta: Xai: Eh, i'm just gonna enjoy it.

Yeah, I think I will too.  I'm torn between getting it next Wednesday night or waiting a few weeks for the bugs to be patched.

/Think I'll wait.

I'm gonna get it first thing, I know there will be bugs, but i expect they'll be more red-dead comedy than sim city unplayable.


That's cool.  Thanks for being my indirect guinea pig, along with thousands of others I suspect.
 
2020-12-04 7:34:31 PM  

revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).


One thing that Nintendo does that I love is announce games a couple of months before release, when they're basically already done.  At most, they might tease something a year or two out (Metroid Prime, BotW 2), but with zero expectation of a solid release date until it's nearly ready to ship.
 
2020-12-04 9:23:22 PM  
Crunch time is entirely voluntary and forced upon no one. Only those employees who wish to continue having careers in this industry are expected to work those hours.
 
2020-12-05 1:18:47 AM  

NeoCortex42: revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).

One thing that Nintendo does that I love is announce games a couple of months before release, when they're basically already done.  At most, they might tease something a year or two out (Metroid Prime, BotW 2), but with zero expectation of a solid release date until it's nearly ready to ship.


That's probably a lot easier to get away with when you're dealing with franchises that have been around for more than 3 decades as opposed to creating a new video game IP (I realize it's based on a series of books but most people aren't going to be familiar with them). I'm sure CDPR was also excited to get the word out that "hey, we're working on something besides the Witcher" too.
 
2020-12-05 1:22:33 AM  

kudayta: Xai: Eh, i'm just gonna enjoy it.

Yeah, I think I will too.  I'm torn between getting it next Wednesday night or waiting a few weeks for the bugs to be patched.

/Think I'll wait.


I'm going to wait at least through the weekend, let some user reviews come in.  It's not even the bugs, I'm just not sold.  Devs have greatly limited what reviewers got to see, the reviewers have been gagged on a lot of that (to be fair, that's far from uncommon), and what little the reviewers have talked about...  It hasn't been bad, exactly, but it's hardly full-throated praise, either.

Couple all that with the repeated delays, completely going back on crunch promises, etc., and I'm not concerned the game is buggy so much as I'm concerned it's unfinished, or else that they promised way more than they could deliver, whether that's in terms of either content or technical quality.  If the verdict ends up being "not everything we'd hoped for, but still excellent," then it's probably still a full-price buy, but I'd like to at least know that going in.  I don't want to think I'm buying Deus Ex and wind up getting Invisible War instead, but if I know I'm at least getting Human Revolution, I'll take that deal.
 
2020-12-05 1:42:49 AM  
Maybe it will go faster if more frothing fan boys send death threats.
 
2020-12-05 2:06:38 AM  

NKURyan: NeoCortex42: revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).

One thing that Nintendo does that I love is announce games a couple of months before release, when they're basically already done.  At most, they might tease something a year or two out (Metroid Prime, BotW 2), but with zero expectation of a solid release date until it's nearly ready to ship.

That's probably a lot easier to get away with when you're dealing with franchises that have been around for more than 3 decades as opposed to creating a new video game IP (I realize it's based on a series of books but most people aren't going to be familiar with them). I'm sure CDPR was also excited to get the word out that "hey, we're working on something besides the Witcher" too.


It's not a problem to announce projects, the problem is announcing a deadline for release when you announce the game.

You can generate hype without saying that it will be released in 700 days. Just announced the project, occasionally tease some milestone as you hit them, some gameplay footage, maybe a trailer every 6mo... It'll be fine.
 
Juc [TotalFark]
2020-12-05 2:14:05 AM  
Better than Rockstar at least, I mean months still sucks. But hey it could be worse?
Crunch is what ultimately makes devs quit the industry though, and it breaks up families

/Quit the industry
 
2020-12-05 2:15:16 AM  
Fark yeah!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 4:13:51 AM  

revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).


QFT. No deadline is really concrete, right PM's?

The level of sales this game is going to see 10% of all revenue go to employees that worked extra time. That's a huuuuuuuge amount of money, even spread out among 1100 employees. It's say it has $1bn in sales, that's a $100M bonus to be distributed, or $90,000 per person (strict average). As a note, Witcher 3 sold 50M copies, even assuming $20 a copy (which is low), that's $1bn in sales.

The sales for this title are likely to blow W3 out of the water, as it has much wider appeal for a variety of reasons, and a solid marketing campaign. I would not be surprised if just from pre-orders they are close to a billion or more in sales. $60 a copy, they need to move 16M units over the next year. I don't think that will be a problem. 

If you want to show your support for them, buy the game.

/Dev
//15 years, never goes away
///Some days I work 18 hours, just because I have to get it out of my head - otherwise it is gone forever.
 
2020-12-05 4:21:53 AM  
One of the more, ahem, interesting side effects of both this and the crunch that 'The Last of Us 2' did is that there's now a very vocal group on the social media's who are convinced that crunch makes games better. As in, if you don't crunch your game will be bad.

I want these people to have to actually *do* it and see what they think then.
 
2020-12-05 6:02:43 AM  
Maybe don't hype up a farking game for ten years on the coat tails of your last successful franchise? Missing multiple deadlines, and over promising under delivering.

It will be an ambience game you play for immersion in to that world. The game play looks dry as hell.
 
2020-12-05 7:39:17 AM  

Gordon Bennett: Crunch time is entirely voluntary and forced upon no one. Only those employees who wish to continue having careers in this industry are expected to work those hours.


Which is why I got out of the industry. Game developers work longer hours and make less money than people in comparable industries.
 
2020-12-05 7:41:55 AM  

Tom Marvolo Bombadil: Fark yeah!

[Fark user image image 300x450]


images.heb.comView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 8:07:14 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Gordon Bennett: Crunch time is entirely voluntary and forced upon no one. Only those employees who wish to continue having careers in this industry are expected to work those hours.

Which is why I got out of the industry. Game developers work longer hours and make less money than people in comparable industries.


It's kind of similar to the film industry back in the old days (and still is, to a somewhat lesser extent); they get away with it because there's a seemingly endless supply of naive young programmers who think it's the best industry ever because they love the product.  Go visit any given college programming/coding class, and I guaran-damn-tee that at least a third of the people in there have dreams of going into game development and making the best game ever.
 
2020-12-05 10:25:08 AM  

NKURyan: NeoCortex42: revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).

One thing that Nintendo does that I love is announce games a couple of months before release, when they're basically already done.  At most, they might tease something a year or two out (Metroid Prime, BotW 2), but with zero expectation of a solid release date until it's nearly ready to ship.

That's probably a lot easier to get away with when you're dealing with franchises that have been around for more than 3 decades as opposed to creating a new video game IP (I realize it's based on a series of books but most people aren't going to be familiar with them). I'm sure CDPR was also excited to get the word out that "hey, we're working on something besides the Witcher" too.


Not just a series of RPG books, they got the goddamn author on board.

I don't think people are going to expect so many space Nazis.
 
2020-12-05 11:52:32 AM  
Between this shiat and the multiple corporate tie-ins, this is shaping up to be the least 'cyberpunk' game ever.
 
2020-12-05 12:02:57 PM  
Maybe marketing needs to learn how to program and not make unrealistic expectations.

Wonder what happened to the guy on twitter who was told the release date was not going to change a day before they changed it to Dec 10th
 
2020-12-05 12:10:15 PM  

LordJiro: Between this shiat and the multiple corporate tie-ins, this is shaping up to be the least 'cyberpunk' game ever.


You don't think corporations are going to rule everything in the future?
 
2020-12-05 12:11:54 PM  
Next up, Elden Ring.  I'm pretty sure that's whatever you call the opposite of crunch, though.
 
2020-12-05 12:54:07 PM  
A lionized practice at Microsoft for many years. I miss the "crash closet" in Building 3. We'd work 80+ hour weeks, and take turns sleeping in a closet in which a futon had been placed. We all had furniture of one sort or another in our offices, or happily shared our furniture with those who didn't, to ensure that you could close your eyes for a couple of hours while trying to hit milestones or pre-release work.

Alas, Building 3 is long gone, but the practice remains.
 
2020-12-05 2:26:55 PM  
cause math is hard stuff yo.

Will take X labor hours to do.
Deadline for generating a revenue stream from invested money on labor cost X = Y.

Where Y deadline requires > 60+ hours a week of labor to meet.

"crunch time" is just saying, we demand 80+ hours a week for a while now instead the piddly 60+ wee had been asking for. Because the fook we ain't waiting for you to do this at 40 hours a week we want to start recouping now.
 
2020-12-05 3:29:02 PM  
Poor game developers are the only people who have ever had to work overtime.   Where's my little violin.
 
2020-12-05 4:07:44 PM  
The game was announced over 7 years ago.
You couldn't get it ready in that time period?
What the hell have you been doing?
 
2020-12-05 7:07:16 PM  

lilplatinum: Poor game developers are the only people who have ever had to work overtime.   Where's my little violin.


10-12 hour days for months at a time isn't small potatoes.
 
2020-12-05 7:47:47 PM  

kkinnison: Maybe marketing needs to learn how to program and not make unrealistic expectations.


revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).



At what point does the business's budget for development run out?  Are they producing directly from their own cash on hand?  If it's from liquid assets, when does that run out before sales start?  Did they take out a big ass-loan to pay for development?  If so, when does that start to come due?

In either case, they might have a budgetary deadline that revolves around money and assets rather than actual completion.
 
2020-12-05 8:31:18 PM  

JammerJim: lilplatinum: Poor game developers are the only people who have ever had to work overtime.   Where's my little violin.

10-12 hour days for months at a time isn't small potatoes.


Are they getting paid OT?  I know plenty of people who would love that.   I've had a 3 month trial period where I was put through the ringer like that.   Don't like it?  There are plenty of 9-5s.

(If they aren't paying them OT then yes, it's farking abusive).
 
2020-12-05 9:09:34 PM  
There a Dilbert for everything.

assets.amuniversal.comView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 10:45:07 PM  

Karne: LordJiro: Between this shiat and the multiple corporate tie-ins, this is shaping up to be the least 'cyberpunk' game ever.

You don't think corporations are going to rule everything in the future?


Oh, they already do, and probably will continue to do so, barring several revolutions. But cyberpunk is supposed to be about fighting that, or at least not feeding into it.

'Cyberpunk' doesn't just mean 'transhumanism and neon'. The 'punk' part is pretty important.
 
2020-12-06 4:10:02 AM  
Let them try working in public accounting and then see if complain. Six-day, 60 hour work weeks? I remember my first part-time job..
 
2020-12-06 6:52:20 AM  

LordJiro: Karne: LordJiro: Between this shiat and the multiple corporate tie-ins, this is shaping up to be the least 'cyberpunk' game ever.

You don't think corporations are going to rule everything in the future?

Oh, they already do, and probably will continue to do so, barring several revolutions. But cyberpunk is supposed to be about fighting that, or at least not feeding into it.

'Cyberpunk' doesn't just mean 'transhumanism and neon'. The 'punk' part is pretty important.


The other important part of cyberpunk is the fight to pull the world back from where it has gotten, and fighting against those systems. Not so much on the prevention side of things.
 
2020-12-06 8:05:23 AM  

revrendjim: Maybe you shouldn't announce an unrealistic release date (said every programmer ever).


According to my boss I just have to work "Agily." I guess that means I should work more hours or be able to pivot from project to project instantly. I'm not really sure, the definition seems to change frequently to mean whatever they want.

Also, according to them a "Sprint" is any period of time where you are working as fast as possible to meet a deadline. Note; they set deadlines before even the most basic specs are discussed, so I end up with two to three "sprints" a week.

I'm starting to think that firing everyone who had "Project" in their title wasn't a good idea.
 
2020-12-06 9:59:18 AM  
Very few game developers pay overtime. The extra hours to finish up projects are generally in your contract as a 'you will do the hours necessary to ship the game' clause that you tend to not notice when you're in your early twenties and are still loving the idea of making games for living.

I've moved into sub areas of game dev, away from the big console and pc studios, cause I won't do that kind of expected crunch anymore.

No unions involved, even in those countries where unionisation is a much bigger than than the US.

And sure, plenty of other workers in far more dangerous jobs are worked far harder. But it seems a bit... wrong... to break people for the sake of peoples entertainment.
 
2020-12-06 11:04:53 AM  

LordJiro: Karne: LordJiro: Between this shiat and the multiple corporate tie-ins, this is shaping up to be the least 'cyberpunk' game ever.

You don't think corporations are going to rule everything in the future?

Oh, they already do, and probably will continue to do so, barring several revolutions. But cyberpunk is supposed to be about fighting that, or at least not feeding into it.

'Cyberpunk' doesn't just mean 'transhumanism and neon'. The 'punk' part is pretty important.


Heh. These days, "punk", like "Goth", is something you buy at the store. The fun part? One person's "punk" is another person's "idiot refusing to wear a mask or follow instructions during a pandemic" - after all, both fit the "anti-establishment views, promotion of individual freedom, and DIY ethics" mold drawn around the corpse of the punk movement.

Punk died a long time ago, and marketing's still hawking its bedclothes.
 
2020-12-06 11:05:26 AM  
*outline, not mold - mixing my metaphors all over the place this morning...
 
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