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(Twitter)   Pelosi is scientifically settling for a stimulus bill that will scientifically get people food on the table even though it is scientifically worth $1.3T less than what Democrats previously asked for through scientific analysis. Science   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, shot  
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1760 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2020 at 6:20 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Funniest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-12-04 6:28:10 PM  
13 votes:
"Scientifically get people food on the table?" Good god, you leftists truly ARE monsters!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
vpb [recently expired TotalFark]
2020-12-04 4:39:13 PM  
11 votes:
What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.
 
2020-12-04 6:48:22 PM  
8 votes:
This will be the reality for the next 4 years.

Bourgiois democrats do not care about you. They do not care about working people. They will always capitulate to capital and they will always betray your hopes.

Stop relying on any group that continues to support capitalism. They will betray you for the almighty dollar.

The only solution is a protracted peoples movement to establish state socialism with a longterm planned economic transition into communism.

Destroy classes and the state will wither.

Stop expecting the leaders of an empire to willingly dismantle their systems of wealth and power.

I'm not even mad about it anymore. Its expected. I'm just tired of being right about liberals.

Republicans are evil, democrats are enablers of evil.
 
2020-12-04 6:43:43 PM  
8 votes:

TheOtherGuy: Don't charactarize it as a mistake?  Okay, how about malfeasance?  Dereliction of duty?  Contempt of Congress and the Constitution?  Crimes Against Humanity?  Am I getting warmer, you psychopathic coont?


Mitch still has no bill written or passed in his chamber.

And for that I blame Nancy Pelosi.
 
2020-12-04 5:21:24 PM  
8 votes:

TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.


As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 7:35:14 PM  
7 votes:
I know the cyan Farkers won't like this (because they hate Pelosi), but she is right.

You always don't get what you want, and sometimes you have to push for something that doesn't work first to get to the point of getting something.
 
2020-12-04 6:31:55 PM  
7 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


We finally found someone with worst negotiation skills than trump.
 
2020-12-04 4:51:41 PM  
6 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


A lot of people who can't be bothered to vote in down-ticket races will be along shortly to explain how Pelosi should have used mystical parliamentary procedures to somehow enact a bill without the Senate for reasons.
 
2020-12-04 9:49:37 PM  
5 votes:

misanthropicsob: Mr.Insightful: misanthropicsob: I see a lot of "Democrats" in here believing Nancy did the right thing by *checks notes* capitulating to Republicans for a package even smaller than they negotiated with Mnuchin 2 months ago.

I know you kook lefties pride yourself on your ignorance and stupidity, Sob, but "Mnuchin" is not just a misspelling of McConnell.

I know you're used to being wrong, so this feeling should be familiar. Trump and Mnuchin were the ones who offered the $1.8T package they had initially worked through with Pelosi before she turned her back on it.

McConnell was, supposedly, not behind it at that point.


Ah, so at least you recognize that McConnell wasn't behind the package, and probably wouldn't have passed it.

If I didn't know you better, I'd think it rather adorable that you think that 1.8T offer without McConnell's signoff was actually on the up-and-up, given how often Republicans lie, SOB. It's like you really truly want to take the right wing at their word. But we all know that the real reason why you are pretending that offer was real and not bullshiat, is because you are doing your damndest to shiat on Democrats, especially if it helps Republicans. Accelerationism and all that.

People who aren't assholes like you, Sob, know that the final numbers aren't the starting numbers. Well, you do too. You're just lying, as typical.
 
2020-12-04 9:12:34 PM  
5 votes:

Stibium: austerity101: Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky

I mean, this how sanctions work, though.  Someone innocent will get hurt.  Sucks if it's you.

Meanwhile people in this very thread seem to believe it's not ok for a single American to go one more second without stimulus.


Yeah, there sure are a lot of "progressives" in here wondering why the Democrats didn't act sooner, and also simultaneously why didn't the Democrats walk away instead of compromising
 
2020-12-04 7:35:55 PM  
5 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.


I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."
 
2020-12-04 6:47:39 PM  
5 votes:

over_educated: She thought she would be in a stronger negotiating position after the election, and that was not a crazy thought considering the polls were so bad even Republicans were shocked they did so well down ballot.  But now McConnell is in the drivers seat, so if the Dems don;t win Georgia he will happily stand asid, watch the country burn and blame it all on Pelosi and Biden.


All with the gleeful assistance of "progressives", as amply demonstrated by this very thread
 
2020-12-04 6:31:29 PM  
5 votes:
You can in fact state that it's a shiat situation while also realizing that waiting until January to try this will leave thousands homeless and a good number dead... for the holidays.

The GOP being worse assholes doesn't make you not an asshole. I don't like it, but I'm not an entitled shiat willing to let tens of thousands suffer to be greedy.

We didn't get the numbers we wanted in the Senate to be pushy. Acting like we did makes you look like a moron.
 
2020-12-04 6:29:13 PM  
5 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?
 
2020-12-04 6:24:36 PM  
5 votes:

Nadie_AZ: TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.

As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

[Fark user image 800x532]


you're delusional.  it's a pleasant delusion, but it is a delusion.
 
2020-12-05 6:06:49 PM  
4 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: pheasible


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 7:28:31 PM  
4 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanton murder does not make a movement.


Then what the fark does this even mean?

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall."

You can't threaten murder and then backtrack and say it's not a movement. God damn, you are a yappy, impotent dog, aren't you? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt of actually being a revolutionary, but now I see you're no Che Guevara, you're Justa Complaina.
 
2020-12-04 7:15:45 PM  
4 votes:

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.


Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.
 
2020-12-04 7:00:38 PM  
4 votes:

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."
 
2020-12-04 6:57:57 PM  
4 votes:
Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.
 
2020-12-04 6:56:36 PM  
4 votes:

eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?


He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?
 
2020-12-04 6:33:20 PM  
4 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


Consider:  Nancy IS a good negotiator, but her goals are more aligned with other career lawmaker Republicans' than with any of America's 328 million small folk, as GoT called us.
 
2020-12-04 6:31:27 PM  
4 votes:
Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.
 
2020-12-04 6:25:34 PM  
4 votes:
You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?
 
2020-12-05 6:15:41 PM  
3 votes:

gameshowhost: Conqueror of Bread: pheasible

[Fark user image image 225x224]


Haha! Oops! Need to prooph my posts.
 
2020-12-05 4:45:11 AM  
3 votes:

leeksfromchichis: Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.


What?

Yes: it gives the Republicans something they want. But there are also things in there the Democrats want.

Look, I'm sorry, for both of you, seriously. But I just can't make "we didn't get everything we wanted" sound like "we didn't get ANYTHING we wanted" no matter how hard I try. I have learned over the decades that getting SOME of what you want is a good thing, even if your opponent also gets something.

But then again, I understand realpolitik. I sense both you and the Republicants do not.
 
2020-12-05 1:54:19 AM  
3 votes:

misanthropicsob: Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.

So, you admit, you don't want to work with progressives and consider them your enemy.

This is a mainstream Democratic position, so I'm not surprised.


I can work with people without being kind or tolerant of them. I worked with cops for 20 years without being tolerant of any of them.

Hell, you came up with a totally workable M4A plan just last night that sounded eminently reasonable. I don't have to be kind to you to work with you on that.

It's just that you have this strange vocabulary where "being tolerant" equals "being friends" and "not being tolerant" means "being enemies" and that's your issue not mine. You want to live in a binary world, you will have many enemies and very few friends. I do not have that problem.
 
2020-12-04 10:27:52 PM  
3 votes:
I like how Conqueror of Bread is all pissed off that because some of us worked hard for our comfortable lives, we all need to board the Titanic because everyone should be wet. I guess failure breeds failure.

How about you and your ilk just stop being a victim and take control of your collective lives for once?
 
2020-12-04 9:45:21 PM  
3 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Jiggatron69: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."

Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.

He took a long time to basically say "I got mine so frak you". What an unsatisfying conclusion.  Almost as bad as Season 8 of GoT

Yeah, he's clearly just a conservative reactionary. But the very fact that he is claims to be a vocal Democrat should give many in this thread pause.

This is the class the democratic leadership rhetorically ponders to, while serving the interests of the largest international corporations.

But he's got a house in the 'burbs so fark the poors.


Conceding the suburbs to the GOP is an odd strategy.
 
2020-12-04 8:37:14 PM  
3 votes:

Cagey B: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

A lot of people who can't be bothered to vote in down-ticket races will be along shortly to explain how Pelosi should have used mystical parliamentary procedures to somehow enact a bill without the Senate for reasons.


I know, right? I'm 100% done with having conversations with people online that go like this:

Them: Those damned Democrats are just Republicans in other clothing. Why aren't they passing relief bills!
Me: They literally have passed a bunch of them for months. They only control the House, laws go through both chambers. Republicans control the Senate and won't even vote on anything Mitch McConnell hasn't personally approved.
T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.
T: No way! The Democrats could do more! They could pass something all by themselves! They should be marching in the streets! They don't wanna! Whaaaarrrggghlllll
M: /surprised this person can even read the written word

So farking tired of that shiat.

ONE motherfarker is the problem, shockingly it isn't actually Trump in this particular instance, learn how our farking legislative system works at a basic level before opining about what someone in it should be doing, and get it through our farking heads already - widespread public pressure is generally completely ignored by the GOP. They ONLY care about their gaslit suckers, they don't really give much of a shiat about our marches besides them being a temporary nuisance for their drivers.

Anybody angry about this SHOULD BE - it is appropriate to be furious about it. But you want to farking DO something about it? Do something to support the runoffs for those senate seats in GA. Both seats need to be won by Democrats. If they are and still nothing happens? I'll be right there with them screaming at Democrats to use what tools they can.

But if we lose those races and the GOP retains control of the senate... well, the GOP doesn't care if government doesn't work - they RUN ON BREAKING IT. Works for them if government fails us, and they'll do what they can to bring it to a halt. Like they've been doing. Be pissed at the people who have decided to use their power to sabotage the US, and the founders to make a system so game-able to compromise with slavers - not the people fighting them for not having magic goddamned powers.
 
2020-12-04 7:58:59 PM  
3 votes:
I think the people in power whose missteps, regardless of intent, result in mass deaths of citizens should be called to account by the law. And potentially a firing squad.

That would include all leadership, I think. Speaker, president and his staff, various agency heads, etc.

If that's a crazy thing that we can never expect to happen, I'm not sure I want this country to succeed any further.

If it's something we can hope for, I hope the McConnell gets a particularly harsh sentence. Something like heavy weights on his ankles pulling him down onto a blade that will slowly slice him in half taint-first. Just spitballing.
 
2020-12-04 7:39:16 PM  
3 votes:

Corvus: I know the cyan Farkers won't like this (because they hate Pelosi), but she is right.

You always don't get what you want, and sometimes you have to push for something that doesn't work first to get to the point of getting something.


And I scrolled up. All the cyan "Democrats" were once again attacking Democrats for what McConnell did!
 
2020-12-04 7:25:10 PM  
3 votes:

AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.


This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.
 
2020-12-04 7:23:07 PM  
3 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?

Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.


You haven't already figured this stuff out? I thought you were standing ready.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:04 PM  
3 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.
 
2020-12-04 7:17:44 PM  
3 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?


Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?
 
2020-12-04 7:09:30 PM  
3 votes:
Biden and Pelosi are temporarily embarrassed Republicans.
We have been shown this for decades.
At this point it is like yelling at a dog for peeing on the rug two hours after he asked you to go outside.
We know who they are, we had the opportunity to let them out but we didn't.
Instead they are going to just make messes on the rug for two years.
 
2020-12-04 7:03:52 PM  
3 votes:
Americans are too stupid, they voted for more republicans in the house and left it the same in the senate.

This country is farking done. Theres no way we get back to sanity without a lot of people dying. 275 000 dead from covid, 200 000+ dead from the opiod crisis and millions dead from shiatty/lack of health care wasnt enough to send a message to the average person, apparently, itll take a full real-life history course where millions are jailed and tortured, tens of millions sent into homelessness and abject poverty and millions more are killed by the government before people realize how farking evil the GOP and their corporate overlords are and no amount of alcohol, weed and netflix will be able to make people ignore the reality or forget about it.

/this country is entering the end portion of the collapse and people are still in farking denial
//biden is pretty much farked no matter what he does
 
2020-12-04 6:53:50 PM  
3 votes:

qorkfiend: I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.


We don't talk about layers and nuance here, friend.  We barely know those people.
 
2020-12-04 6:51:30 PM  
3 votes:
I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.
 
2020-12-04 6:46:35 PM  
3 votes:
Pelosi bet on Americans not being so farking stupid for ONE time in their life, and sadly lost.  Dems should have won the Senate.  Why in the fark did Susan Collins and Lindsey Graham retain their seats?  Pelosi is now playing the hand she has, post-election.

So many people in this thread living in a fantasyland instead of the America that exists.  People here don't understand double standards. Americans expect Democrats to govern responsibly, and give Republicans a pass for all manner of evil. Here is the current position: if everything goes to hell with no deal, then Biden starts his administration in an even DEEPER hole, which means Biden will be more desperate to pass a relief bill, which means McConnell has even MORE leverage, pending what happens in the runoffs.

I am not mad at Pelosi for not giving 45 a huge pre-election win (and potentially another term) at the cost of permanent immunity for companies and middling stimulus relief. If you're going to help 45 win, he has to give you every damn thing you want for the people, and not a penny less.  Now you pass something to help regular people, and shore up the market, so you're not going hat in hand to McConnell in January.
 
2020-12-04 6:46:11 PM  
3 votes:

austerity101: Nadie_AZ: TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.

As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

[Fark user image 800x532]

This.  There certainly isn't much Congressional Democrats could have done on the floor in terms of legislation over these past few months, but they could have done way, way more on the ground.  I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place--there's so much they can do to increase their presence and get their stories out.  Tell the people what the Republicans are and aren't doing.  Name them.  Call them out.  Work with activists and grassroots organizations.  Shouldn't this all be obvious?


As usual it is hilarious to watch amateurs sneer "isn't that obvious" at professionals
 
2020-12-04 6:40:07 PM  
3 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


The Turtle was never on board with the $1.8 trillion dollar bill (nor $1.2 trillion) and Pelosi knew it.  He's the main one you need to negotiate with, not Trump.  Trump will sign anything that is popular (or at least he would prior to the election).
 
2020-12-04 6:39:51 PM  
3 votes:
I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most.

I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25.


Which deal is worth more to you?
 
2020-12-04 6:39:30 PM  
3 votes:
Are we just making up bullshiat in the headlines to create infighting threads now? I mean the linked tweet says nothing but that Pelosi is pushing again for a stimulus, not that she's capitulating to republican demands. There's also the fact Pelosi and the house already passed a bill in March. It's in the Senate's hands now. Not hers.
 
2020-12-04 6:25:26 PM  
3 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".
 
2020-12-04 6:24:26 PM  
3 votes:
Thanks, Bernie.
 
2020-12-05 11:06:59 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Its a single party state


You are very ignorant. No, China is not. It is actually a multiple party system. Only one party is actually in charge. Also, knowing where I am, is different from posting critically of the govt. Also, you know, should know, VPNs.
 
2020-12-05 8:19:43 PM  
2 votes:

ReaverZ: Wanderlusting: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years?

Yes, the same with Vietnam. He is crediting Marxism with the improvements capitalism created


The benefits of the capital distribution in Vietnam are due to the socialist organization of its markets and collective ownership of a number of industries.

Its still a part of the global economy and as such trades in goods produced outside of that system. This is expected in any socialist system existing prior to a global socialist revolution.

You're acting as if importing products it would be inefficient to produce doesn't adhere to basic market mechanics. Of course you import goods.

Of course they have stores that are part of the international market system. That's expected if you have to act pragmatically, as Vietnam had need to be.

The benefits of their collectivist system have spread the distribution of capital in a far better way than liberal economics. And this after having to rebuild from a brutal war.

There are plenty of resources on this concept if you want to learn more.
 
2020-12-05 7:09:13 PM  
2 votes:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: China is still a marxist nation

No, it is not. Stop talking now.


Da Commissar! Demanding those you disagree with be silent! How liberty loving!

https://amp.scmp.com/economy/china-ec​o​nomy/article/3097561/chinese-president​-xi-jinping-says-marxist-political-eco​nomy

Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

Much like the issue with stalin, I deferr to the Chinese working class where it comes to the organization of their state.

But China is by its philosophical positioning, Marxist. I have my criticisms of their system, but I focus on fixing my own rood before I complain they my neighbor's is leaky.
 
2020-12-05 6:14:42 PM  
2 votes:
lordjupiter:

Its hard to tell the age of an American poster on the internet. Its also largely irrelevant. I've met plenty of 20 somethings who have a solid grasp of the world and history and are worth listening to. So I try not to judge on peoples age. I also teach some pretty bright kids who will be far better educated than I was at their age.

On to your assertions.

Cuba is a lovely country. Wonderful education less abject poverty and their literacy rate is higher per capita. Also a fairly classically marxist nation. They still practice internsfionalism and send doctors all over the world. More than the US by a per capita basis.

All while the imperial overlord sat right outside of their gates. Pretty inspiring if you're aware of the historical circumstances.

Vietnam has recovered powerfully from the liberal imperial wars inflicted on it. It even defeated China after the liberal "reformers" took over after mao. I have some critique of their system, but they are socialist and marxist if a bit eclectic, and its really not my place to tell other nations and peoples how to organize. That's really something only working class people of the nation should do.

China is still a marxist nation, though they have allowed liberalism to infiltrate their system too much in my opinion. I understand the theory of development the party is using and I wouldn't impose a western system on them. That would be chauvinistic, which is something the bourgiois parties engage in. Still, Deng was a poor successor of mao and I wish there had been another person like mao instead.

So that's a few marxist countries. The ones who survived the genocidal psychopaths of imperial liberalism.

Jakarta would have been amazing had we not murdered hundreds of thousands to prevent their socialist movment.

Chile too.

South America will likely become the best example of marxist and socialist successes as several of those nations have been resilient against US murder campaigns.

Its actually a pretty big testament Marxist and socialist organization that these countries have stood against the one industrialized nation to emerge unscathed from WWII.
 
2020-12-05 2:31:30 AM  
2 votes:

Murkanen: Gyrfalcon:

Please be specific. How does the bill as proposed today give the Republicans "everything they want" and leave the Democrats with nothing they want?

You mean aside from it being another massive handout to wall street and it giving businesses immunity from liability for providing an unsafe working environment?


Yeah. Besides that. I'm looking at it right now, and I see a lot of things that Democrats wanted, just not as much. I must be missing something. Please show me what I'm not seeing. Also, where is this handout to Wall Street? I'm not seeing that either.
 
2020-12-04 10:39:31 PM  
2 votes:

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.


Its amazing how everything in your post is wrong lol.

I'm enjoying a lovely glass of bourbon right now, so I can't be bothered to walk you through how silly your comment is.

There are millions of Marxists in the world you should seek one out and have them help you.

Check out Economic Update with Richard Wolffe.

Its a good place to start, but as I tell my students, you have to want to learn in order to learn.

Id also suggest "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific" by Engels before moving on to Marx's main texts.

Critique of the Gotha Program is useful too.

Lots of resources out there to help you on your journey.

My path was a winding one. I went from a right wing libertarian as a kid in the south and got into freedman, then shifted to a classical liberal in my 20s a neolib because of Obama, which I regret. Shameful years of being on the wrong part of the Dunning Kruger effect. I used to make your very argument.

I found anarchism through proudhon and chomsky, who's work saved my life. I still love the man despite some disagreements about revolutionary strategy. He will always be a hero.

Then I found my way through marx and engels about 8 years ago. There is so much to learn here. So much history to examine.

I hope you give it a try. You might look back on who you were today, 8 years from now and be so glad you started this journey.

I ended up saying way more than I intended. Must he the bourbon.

Good luck, hopefully future comrade!
 
2020-12-04 10:23:25 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.



History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.
 
2020-12-04 10:05:36 PM  
2 votes:
Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.
 
2020-12-04 9:34:07 PM  
2 votes:

misanthropicsob: I see a lot of "Democrats" in here believing Nancy did the right thing by *checks notes* capitulating to Republicans for a package even smaller than they negotiated with Mnuchin 2 months ago.


I know you kook lefties pride yourself on your ignorance and stupidity, Sob, but "Mnuchin" is not just a misspelling of McConnell.
 
2020-12-04 8:49:03 PM  
2 votes:

Naido: Pelosi now habitually comes on with a "how dare you question me??" attitude.


yeah, she is doing that more an more. I wonder if it is truly "how dare you" or "why are you giving me shiat, when you let Trump get away with lying. Not politician obfuscations but bold fact no factual basis bullshiat".

/ little of the former and a lot of the latter
 
2020-12-04 8:37:23 PM  
2 votes:
I POOPED THIS THREAD'S PANTS


/just had to get that out. All is well again.
 
2020-12-04 8:22:58 PM  
2 votes:

gameshowhost: Nothing HOHOHO funnier than a right-leaning Moderate™ trying to imply that progressives are the ones who have or will ever shiat on black voters.

Decades of your group's policies not just failing black voters, but sending them backwards in many ways.

/war on drugs supporting mofos have happily decimated the nation's young black males
//but the gop is worse so it's okay that you've been pointedly awful human beings


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent​_​Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

That moment when you realize it was introduced by a Democrat, passed overwhelmingly in the House, passed 96-4 in the Senate and signed by a Democratic President ...

scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.netView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 8:11:23 PM  
2 votes:

Ringshadow: I remain convinced that my furby Quixote could legislate better than Nancy Pelosi.

[Fark user image image 850x637]

/doo?


GAH! What the fark?!
 
2020-12-04 8:10:20 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.


It's you who's having trouble following the thread, my friend. I know perfectly well your threats are directed at Senate Republicans and not me personally. I also know perfectly well physical threats will not work against them.
 
2020-12-04 8:06:06 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out


No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better. You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child
 
2020-12-04 7:25:54 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?

Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.

You haven't already figured this stuff out? I thought you were standing ready.


I am. So are most leftists. But there are so many moving parts to a successful revolutionary act.

If you're actually interested i can point you toward sources which can help you understand the theory of marxism and strategies for revolutionary struggle.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:55 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?

Obviously

Good. Start saying that more instead of trying to give people cover for underperforming.


I'm not giving them "cover". I'm pointing out there's a huge turtle-shaped roadblock named Mitch McConnell in the way and that to a great degree he personally controls whether something gets done or not. (We also call these kind of factual, verifiable observations "reality". And no, I don't want to hear about how you think "should" be.)
 
2020-12-04 7:15:07 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!


No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass
 
2020-12-04 7:12:35 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.


Uh, ok. Who said it was?
 
2020-12-04 7:10:17 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."


media2.giphy.comView Full Size


The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.
 
2020-12-04 7:10:10 PM  
2 votes:

leeksfromchichis: gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.


Its what you could get and, literally, all you could get because one side of the negotiators (Repubs) have nothing to lose or gain by saving anyone's life.  If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.  You genuinely can't have it both ways.
 
2020-12-04 7:02:29 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.


This coming from someone who sits around all day on Fark and talks tough.

Seriously, why should we take someone like yourself the least bit serious?  Or do you see being an ITG as a redeeming quality?
 
2020-12-04 7:02:05 PM  
2 votes:

Nonpo: Pelosi is literally admitting she's agreeing to give the republicans what they want in their version before the new president and congress is sworn in and the democrats have a chance of getting what they want. The republicans are only moving on this now because they fear the democrats could get their version passed without republican support so they're offering this turd pile and Nancy is there to scoop it up and call it a big win for the democrats. In reality this will serve as the final excuse for the GOP to say, been there, did that and enough democrats will go along with it to kill any future chance of a better bill.

I'm just farking tired of this. I'd rather the democrats fight and take chances and fail than to just surrender immediately out of custom.


Here's a run down of the sum total of the discussion:

The people:  Hey lots of us are dying and millions of us are about to literally starve to death or homeless if we don't get some support.  We need something, anything.

Republicans: Heh, we're not going to give shiat.  Die you poors.

Dems:  fark, the republicans aren't going to give us shiat, but like, millions of people are literally going to die or be homeless if they don't get help.  We gotta do something, anything.

Republicans:  Enjoy your breadcrumbs.

Pelsoi: shiat, this is awful, but it's something.

The people:  You should've held out longer, in the meantime getting us no relief even when we literally told you we needed help right way.  You suck at negotiating.

That brings us to present day.
 
2020-12-04 6:51:02 PM  
2 votes:
I swear, fark every one of you morons that see the bullshiat the GOP is pulling and whine "why won't the democrats just COMMMPROMISE."

These same people turn around and biatch about how the Democrats are weak and that they won't fight.

You dumbfarks are the reason Mitch is constantly smiling, because for some stupid reason when a rapist has a gun to your head and tells you he won't kill if you don't fight, your response is "hmm, that's a fair compromise."
 
2020-12-04 6:50:00 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: This will be the reality for the next 4 years.

Bourgiois democrats do not care about you. They do not care about working people. They will always capitulate to capital and they will always betray your hopes.

Stop relying on any group that continues to support capitalism. They will betray you for the almighty dollar.

The only solution is a protracted peoples movement to establish state socialism with a longterm planned economic transition into communism.

Destroy classes and the state will wither.

Stop expecting the leaders of an empire to willingly dismantle their systems of wealth and power.

I'm not even mad about it anymore. Its expected. I'm just tired of being right about liberals.

Republicans are evil, democrats are enablers of evil.


Start marching, Mao.
 
2020-12-04 6:47:10 PM  
2 votes:

Nadie_AZ: lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.

Perhaps it is the start of the roll back of OSHA.


Those are job killing regulations.
 
2020-12-04 6:44:32 PM  
2 votes:

dkulprit: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

Oh, we understand compromise.  We have millions of people who are unemployed and living under the poverty line, the GOP just put us 10 trillion into debt to give tax breaks to the wealthy, so we're supposed to take about 150$ per person in the country while those rich who already just got breaks and money from government?

Compromise is:

"We want 2,000$/person"

"No, 1,000$ only. "

"Ok, meet in middle 1,500$"

Not:

"We want 2,000 for each and every person."

"Nope, were going to give 1 trillion to businesses, make them immune from liability and the people get 150$."

"Ok.  That works."

That's not a compromise.  That's getting walked over.


Because you assume that's how it went. It was really more like this:

"We want $2000 for each person."
"No."
"$1500 for each person."
"No."
"What do you want?"'
"We don't want anything. You make offers, and we'll tell you which one we'll accept."
"$1500 and a tax break?"
"No."

The GOP has nothing to gain or lose by negotiating at this point. They know ANYTHING will come back on the Dems. So Pelosi has to give them something they will pass and that will get signed, if she wants to get money to Americans before St. Swizzums Day.
 
2020-12-04 6:43:05 PM  
2 votes:

Nadie_AZ: TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.

As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

[Fark user image 800x532]


This.  There certainly isn't much Congressional Democrats could have done on the floor in terms of legislation over these past few months, but they could have done way, way more on the ground.  I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place--there's so much they can do to increase their presence and get their stories out.  Tell the people what the Republicans are and aren't doing.  Name them.  Call them out.  Work with activists and grassroots organizations.  Shouldn't this all be obvious?
 
2020-12-04 6:32:39 PM  
2 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


That is the game and how we are played.
Biden is already floating how we need to reach out to Republicans in order to pass conservative legislation because they are mad about tweets.
It doesn't matter the excuse, just blame republicans for pushing laws their donors want.
 
2020-12-04 4:38:12 PM  
2 votes:
I guess that a shiat stimulus is better than no stimulus at all. But, it has to pass the senate and get signed by Donny. Soooo...it will be "no stimulus".
 
2020-12-06 12:06:28 AM  
1 vote:

Vlad_the_Inaner: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

Because jumping off of roofs in attempted suicide is what one who owns the means of production does


Thats what happens when you let liberal "reform" happen.

As I said, I disagree with the Deng shift.
 
2020-12-05 10:57:23 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.


Because jumping off of roofs in attempted suicide is what one who owns the means of production does
 
2020-12-05 9:15:37 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: your response was pretty vague so I'm kind of skeptical.


because the internet is monitored
 
2020-12-05 6:51:15 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: China is still a marxist nation


No, it is not. Stop talking now.
 
2020-12-05 12:11:13 PM  
1 vote:

mongbiohazard: austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.

I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.


Berners:  Joe Biden is an idiot for saying he's willing to work with Republicans!  They only care about Republicans, and their voters are idiots!  They will never listen to anyone!!!  Dems are pathetic!!!!

Also Berners: Why aren't the Dems pressuring Republicans more??  If Republicans don't move off their positions it's entirely the Democrats' fault for not finding a way to get them to change!!!  Make the Republicans listen!!! Dems are pathetic!!!!
 
2020-12-05 8:50:46 AM  
1 vote:
I've often wondered where I can cash my fantasy check. Sorry that Republicans are dicks but I'd rather eat 100 percent of the food I can buy with 900B than IMAGINE eating 0 percent of the food I will never buy with 2.2T I can't get.
 
2020-12-05 8:04:30 AM  
1 vote:

tekmo: lordjupiter: I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most. I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25. Which deal is worth more to you?

Dunno. When my crooked boss breaches the contract, am I going to have to hire a lawyer and lose my job to recover the promised $25?

Trickle down doesn't work, goddammit.


And of course that was not even the point.  JFC the boss is just a position of authority.  Assume you have to take either deal.  Sub in another term if you need that to figure it out.
 
2020-12-05 3:06:51 AM  
1 vote:

Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky


How about Fark the people in Ky (and Fl for that matter and their superspreader derp state). If you tell me what you do I'd be happy to help you look for a job outside of Ky and put you in contact with the numerous recruiters I know to help you get out of the state.
 
2020-12-05 2:13:47 AM  
1 vote:

Vince McMahon in the Wilderness: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

Giving Republicans everything they want and forfeiting everything Democrats want is not compromise. Pelosi is offender #1 here.


And how does the compromise do that, exactly? Please be specific. How does the bill as proposed today give the Republicans "everything they want" and leave the Democrats with nothing they want?
 
2020-12-05 2:07:44 AM  
1 vote:

austerity101: Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.

Nothing you said follows from my comment.


You told me to stop hurling insults and act like an adult. I don't see how I'm not. We have a couple of self-professed Communists in here, calling for violent revolution; well, let them start the Long March. I don't see that as a hurled insult. And I don't feel compelled to act like an adult in the face of bullshiat; that's not my way.

YMMV of course, and more power to you.
 
2020-12-04 11:37:51 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.


So, you admit, you don't want to work with progressives and consider them your enemy.

This is a mainstream Democratic position, so I'm not surprised.
 
2020-12-04 11:05:47 PM  
1 vote:

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.


Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those who came before. Just as economists and philosophers do today.

So its odd you frame your response as if it is either Marx or Smith.

And we really don't have socialism. Socialism requires worker ownership, public ownership and/or state ownership of the means of production AND a mode of production that is designed to meet needs and provide services.

What we have are some bourgiois concessioms won through socialist-influenced labor and social movments.

"Programs" are welfare policy, which is an improvement over private ownership, but not socialism, which requires a shift in the economic base and collective ownership of the means of production.

I'm such a teacher by habit. Can't help but facilitate the lernin.
 
2020-12-04 10:07:17 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.

No, I'm blaming Democrats for having no way of dealing with him. He exists, so unless he's the king they need to find a way to get their shiat passed before the people that don't recognize the actual problem start blaming Democrats.

Uh, yeah. And? Do you have any other inane, obvious comments to make?

"The Democrats have to figure out how to get bills past the Senate". Yeah, man. We farking know. That's the entire farking problem.


Well DO IT ALREADY! MAKE YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE.

I hereby place you in charge of this problem.
 
2020-12-04 9:47:05 PM  
1 vote:

leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend: leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.

Right. So, nothing then?

Nothing is preferable to death and destruction caused directly by corporation security being legally protected with a tiny garnish of nowhere near enough money months late and being expected to eat the DNC's ass out like it was full of ice cream.

But what I actually would like to see is the Democrats not "compromising" with nation destroying pro-corporate stuff and go back to the party of the people they used to be before my lifetime.


Oh, I didn't know you had a plan to jam a Democratic wish list through a Republican majority Senate. Seems strange to keep such a thing a secret, though. What have you been waiting for?
 
2020-12-04 9:10:36 PM  
1 vote:

leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.


Right. So, nothing then?
 
2020-12-04 9:10:09 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out

No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better.

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

Not sure where your purity rhetoric is coming from, or how you come to the conclusion that I'm asking for more for myself. I've had my struggles during the last year, but I am not in need, not in the way people who have lost their jobs or homes or loved ones are.

I don't accept that criticizing Democratic leadership is "trying to fark it up for everyone else."

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child

Insisting that the Democrats should have walked away from actual relief in the mistaken belief this would somehow force the GOP to capitulate is, in fact, desiring to "fark it up for other people".

But Democrats walking away from actual relief for months in the mistaken belief that we'd walk away with three branches of government was a good bet.

My position is something is, and would have been, better than nothing.

My desire is for people in need to get the help they are owed.


The only reason you can classify it as "mistaken" is because you are sitting here arguing as if everything you know today, Dec 3, you knew back on Sep 3.
 
2020-12-04 8:58:07 PM  
1 vote:

austerity101: Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky

I mean, this how sanctions work, though.  Someone innocent will get hurt.  Sucks if it's you.


Meanwhile people in this very thread seem to believe it's not ok for a single American to go one more second without stimulus.
 
2020-12-04 8:44:06 PM  
1 vote:

Keizer_Ghidorah: Republicans are of a single mind and share most of the same goals and desires. This is why they're so much stronger than Democrats. Democrats are a herd of cats, many opposed ideologies and "My way is better" along with a desire to avoid conflict at all costs. You will never get Democrats to agree on anything, they will remain divided and weak until the right has fully extinguished them.


Republicans stand their ground and make the unthinkable become acceptable. That's how they can convince people in urgent need of affordable healthcare that they'd be better off without it.

Democrats, however, are so scared of looking unpopular that they won't support policies that actually are popular.

69% of Americans, including 88% of Democrats, said they support Medicare For All, and yet the DNC overwhelmingly opposed putting it into the party platform (even though universal healthcare used to be on the party platform every year from 1948 through 1980), and the party leadership spent 2020 insisting it was political poison.

Well, as it turned out, every single person that ran supporting M4A won their election. Additionally, among the people that ran supporting the Green New Deal, all but one won their elections, too.

Fark user imageView Full Size


https://truthout.org/articles/this-el​e​ction-proved-that-medicare-for-all-is-​a-winning-demand/

https://www.commondreams.org/news/202​0​/11/09/99-green-new-deal-co-sponsors-w​on-their-races-cycle-analysis
 
2020-12-04 8:38:06 PM  
1 vote:

OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!


LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky
 
2020-12-04 8:33:15 PM  
1 vote:
Republicans are of a single mind and share most of the same goals and desires. This is why they're so much stronger than Democrats. Democrats are a herd of cats, many opposed ideologies and "My way is better" along with a desire to avoid conflict at all costs. You will never get Democrats to agree on anything, they will remain divided and weak until the right has fully extinguished them.
 
2020-12-04 8:32:27 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out

No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better.

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

Not sure where your purity rhetoric is coming from, or how you come to the conclusion that I'm asking for more for myself. I've had my struggles during the last year, but I am not in need, not in the way people who have lost their jobs or homes or loved ones are.

I don't accept that criticizing Democratic leadership is "trying to fark it up for everyone else."

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child


Insisting that the Democrats should have walked away from actual relief in the mistaken belief this would somehow force the GOP to capitulate is, in fact, desiring to "fark it up for other people".
 
2020-12-04 8:28:40 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: I Like Bread:

Bullshiat, you don't care about the poor. You don't care about Covid deaths. You want to watch it all fall apart so you can feel superior and how you were right all along. Piss off you wanna be.


The moral superiority force field is at the heart of the progressive shiatposter, similar to the white male "pro-lifer" who only wants to protect the "unborn" and not control women.

Narrator: they are not morally superior, nor do they do any real work next to bring about any real change.
 
2020-12-04 8:19:17 PM  
1 vote:
Nothing HOHOHO funnier than a right-leaning Moderate™ trying to imply that progressives are the ones who have or will ever shiat on black voters.

Decades of your group's policies not just failing black voters, but sending them backwards in many ways.

/war on drugs supporting mofos have happily decimated the nation's young black males
//but the gop is worse so it's okay that you've been pointedly awful human beings
 
2020-12-04 8:15:58 PM  
1 vote:

I Like Bread: Corvus: So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?

You can also stop pretending to speak for the poor. No one is buying it.


No, you stop pretending you give a fark. You are fraud, spouting off bs one lines trying to get imaginary internet points. Purpurosea at least has something to say and an argument to make. You are just thread shiatting.
 
2020-12-04 8:08:37 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.

And how's that working out for them electorally?

Not nearly as poorly as it should have.

/looking at you, Georgia


Sounds like it's working pretty well for them, then. Strange how that's causing them to continue with that behavior.
 
2020-12-04 8:04:35 PM  
1 vote:
Gyrfalcon:

If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

Here are some things that Biden can do:

https://prospect.org/day-one-agenda

If he wants to.  Looks like an opportunity to earn a hell of a lot of good will.
 
2020-12-04 8:03:33 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

I'm not sure why people heap so much blame on Pelosi, or anyone else, really, when the buck stops right on McConnell's desk. And I'm not sure why people are heaping blame on "the Democrats" for failing to unseat Yertle, when Amy McGrath was vigorously campaigning against him for over a year. She was neck and neck with him until a week before the election, and isn't that strange.

There is one person, and ONLY one, who is responsible for the bullshiat in Congress, and somehow he keeps skating away from scrutiny.


Probably because all we here is how they're going to fight for us only for them to roll over and let McConnell and the GOP do what they want.
 
2020-12-04 8:02:23 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: Stop being childish, stop. Having a tantrum because you didn't get everything you your way is only an acceptable tactic of discussion when you are between two and three years old. Ounce you are four years or older, you learn to share, compromise, trade and that you do not get everything you want. And if you don't get everything your way, you do not get to ruin it for everyone else.


Aw, how adorable, lookit the internet rando bristling up like a kitten learning how to be fierce and intimidating for the first time. Congrats, you just outed yourself as a spectator-sport voter who had nothing at stake this election. You don't impress me and you sure as hell don't speak for who you want us to believe you speak for, because you don't speak for me. Another privileged radical centrist who is tired of being compared to MLK's White Moderate while doing a spot-on impression of him. Might as well copy-and-paste this for you:

I know piss-yellow Farkers like you and qork can't get this through your thick skulls but by using disingenuous framing like "get what you want," you betray your pure seething contempt for the working poor and the left by implying that the truly desperate in this nation are all spoiled brats stomping their feet and demanding more than they'll ever need.

To say nothing of how you presume to know our needs better than we do, or how soon we ought to have it... if COVID doesn't wipe out this entire nation, NIMBY Syndrome will.
 
2020-12-04 8:00:57 PM  
1 vote:
I remain convinced that my furby Quixote could legislate better than Nancy Pelosi.

Fark user imageView Full Size


/doo?
 
2020-12-04 7:58:56 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.


You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out now is not the time to pat yourself on the back and say you did a good job. You aren't saying the job is done, you're acting like it.

Why the fark are you all having such a tantrum at people demanding more if you actually agree with us?
 
2020-12-04 7:56:14 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: Corvus: Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"

Wouldn't like millions of people be homeless?


That's a pretty high price to pay for senate seats.

OK, BOOMER Pelosi

Do you think Republicans would like for that to happen if it means that Democrats in Georgia would be EVEN MORE fired up? McConnell would love nothing more for Pelosi to accept the shiat sandwich.

Personally, I'd rather starve than eat that.



So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?
 
2020-12-04 7:53:53 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.


I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Physical threats will not work.
 
2020-12-04 7:52:27 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?


If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

I'm not sure why people heap so much blame on Pelosi, or anyone else, really, when the buck stops right on McConnell's desk. And I'm not sure why people are heaping blame on "the Democrats" for failing to unseat Yertle, when Amy McGrath was vigorously campaigning against him for over a year. She was neck and neck with him until a week before the election, and isn't that strange.

There is one person, and ONLY one, who is responsible for the bullshiat in Congress, and somehow he keeps skating away from scrutiny.
 
2020-12-04 7:51:41 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.


They actually do compromise.


The problem is when Republicans compromise Republicans say "They won" and when Democrats compromise they say "We lost" so it just doesn't feel like it.
 
2020-12-04 7:49:26 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"


Wouldn't like millions of people be homeless?


That's a pretty high price to pay for senate seats.
 
2020-12-04 7:45:39 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?


They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.
 
2020-12-04 7:44:46 PM  
1 vote:

I Like Bread: ReaverZ: bluejeansonfire: Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.

run for office then

If you're not currently running for office then I guess it's logical to assume you are perfectly satisfied with everything happening in the nation right now.


Stop being childish, stop. Having a tantrum because you didn't get everything you your way is only an acceptable tactic of discussion when you are between two and three years old. Ounce you are four years or older, you learn to share, compromise, trade and that you do not get everything you want. And if you don't get everything your way, you do not get to ruin it for everyone else.

You want to be an absolute purist, go be an evangelical christian republican. You will be in good company.
 
2020-12-04 7:38:46 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."


Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.
 
2020-12-04 7:33:04 PM  
1 vote:

dkulprit: Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?



Pretty much it says they are not, highlighted for emphasis

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"


Trump wanted the $1.8T so he could send out TrumpChecks(tm) just before the election

Turtle was saying fark that.

They were not working together

Mitch wouldn't have let Nancy have the $1.8T , sabotaging the deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/us​/​politics/stimulus-deal-mitch-mcconnell​-nancy-pelosi.html
 
2020-12-04 7:27:07 PM  
1 vote:

bluejeansonfire: Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.


run for office then
 
2020-12-04 7:24:50 PM  
1 vote:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 7:23:32 PM  
1 vote:

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.

If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.


Wanton murder does not make a movement.

And I dont smart my own comments. That wouldn't serve a purpose.

If I cared about popularity contests I'd post shiatlib memes.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:56 PM  
1 vote:

LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?


Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.
 
2020-12-04 7:18:15 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?

Obviously


Good. Start saying that more instead of trying to give people cover for underperforming.
 
2020-12-04 7:16:56 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


Seriously? You strong men of action are waiting for others to act first?
 
2020-12-04 7:15:50 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So you're committed to fighting for something substantial? Good to hear. It just reads like you're more concerned with stifling criticism than addressing real problems.


No, that's just what your biases are reading into my comments. Those are your problem, not mine.
 
2020-12-04 7:14:35 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.


The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?
 
2020-12-04 7:14:21 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?


So you're committed to fighting for something substantial? Good to hear. It just reads like you're more concerned with stifling criticism than addressing real problems.
 
2020-12-04 7:12:09 PM  
1 vote:

gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.


And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!
 
2020-12-04 7:10:34 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.
 
2020-12-04 7:10:00 PM  
1 vote:
2020 election results and the shiatstorm that will follow :
Fark user imageView Full Size

/russians were uneducated religious dumbfarks before communism and they got what they asked for, genocide, war and dictatorship
//73 million who voted for trump again are the same kind of dumbfarks who ruined russia and theyll do it again
 
2020-12-04 7:07:43 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


GOP: "You will get almost nothing and like it."

Ancient Dem Party leadership:

Fark user imageView Full Size



If the other side begins from a crazy position, you're a terrible negotiator if you counter with a reasonable offer.  You're showing your feeb hand at that point.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:31 PM  
1 vote:
To be fair, nobody was suing any businesses anyways. Immunity from a giant nothingburger like suing your employer for Covid seems like an easy thing to rollover on.

Also, good luck convincing a court you caught Covid at work and not at the local grocery store, or gas station, or Costco, or WalMart, or everywhere else people have gone since the shutdowns were lifted.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:01 PM  
1 vote:

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Yeah, right.

You actually taking physical action against the government?  Please, don't make me laugh.

You'll sit on your couch and tell everyone else to go and do it.  You won't get up off your ass to do a thing.


I take action as often as I can. Protest as often as possible.

We all should.

I dont have anything to prove to anyone on fark. But you have plenty to prove to yourself and your neighbors. We all do.

Solidarity and praxis. Only you can know if you're doing your part.
 
2020-12-04 7:04:10 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."


Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.
 
2020-12-04 7:01:49 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: This will be the reality for the next 4 years.

Bourgiois democrats do not care about you. They do not care about working people. They will always capitulate to capital and they will always betray your hopes.

Stop relying on any group that continues to support capitalism. They will betray you for the almighty dollar.

The only solution is a protracted peoples movement to establish state socialism with a longterm planned economic transition into communism.

Destroy classes and the state will wither.

Stop expecting the leaders of an empire to willingly dismantle their systems of wealth and power.

I'm not even mad about it anymore. Its expected. I'm just tired of being right about liberals.

Republicans are evil, democrats are enablers of evil.


What's the list of demands, Reg?
 
2020-12-04 7:01:37 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

I don't think it serves the public to compromise and give corporations immunity for doing nothing to protect its employees. But maybe I can change my mind if Pelosi says corporations can have a few more trillion, no strings attached?

/that last part is sarcastic

How much does "zero relief" serve the public?

If people were more engaged they might be so vocally outraged that the immunity gets cut AND the stimulus gets increased anyway. This isn't a "compromise-or-nothing" unless Pelosi wants it to be.


Ah, right. It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention. Or do they? Perhaps you'll recall the election a month ago and the results in the House.

If it's not "compromise-or-nothing", then what is it? I assume you're not stupid enough to believe "everything-or-nothing" is an option on the menu.
 
2020-12-04 6:56:34 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.


I know it is your thing but don't be a complete tool.
The amount of money being given to Americans isn't useful to anyone.
It is like that guy who offers a McDonalds cheeseburger to a hooker for services.
The only ones that get relief again are the companies that paying politicians to not have to contribute to out society with taxes.
 
2020-12-04 6:56:01 PM  
1 vote:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:54:29 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.


Hey, now.  Everything everywhere is the Democrats' fault. Duuuuuh.

Just like, on January 21st, every American death from Covid (285,389 SO FAR) will be Biden's fault.

Quite a handy trick the t(R)aitors have, if ya' want to be honest.
 
2020-12-04 6:53:53 PM  
1 vote:

eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!


No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?
 
2020-12-04 6:51:47 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.


Sure thing, Hitler!
 
2020-12-04 6:50:45 PM  
1 vote:

eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.


Start marching, Mao.
 
2020-12-04 6:49:42 PM  
1 vote:

dkulprit: Vlad_the_Inaner: misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?

Its because you think that Trump and the Turtle are working together, while its more like the Turtle isusing Trump as a useful idiot

Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?

Mnuchin and Pelosi were on a bill that 1.8 trillion.  Pelosi walked away.  I'm sure there are valid reasons for it.... but Mitch had already promised to veto it.  Which means it could have been used as political leverage against mitch.  Or if passed people would've gotten help.

Now we're looking at a bill that is half original amount that doesn't help the people.


You don't understand how leverage works, do you?
 
2020-12-04 6:48:34 PM  
1 vote:

lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.


Because f*ck the commoners, that's why.
 
2020-12-04 6:48:23 PM  
1 vote:

Vlad_the_Inaner: misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?

Its because you think that Trump and the Turtle are working together, while its more like the Turtle isusing Trump as a useful idiot


Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?

Mnuchin and Pelosi were on a bill that 1.8 trillion.  Pelosi walked away.  I'm sure there are valid reasons for it.... but Mitch had already promised to veto it.  Which means it could have been used as political leverage against mitch.  Or if passed people would've gotten help.

Now we're looking at a bill that is half original amount that doesn't help the people.
 
2020-12-04 6:48:09 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:42:37 PM  
1 vote:

mrwhippy: [Fark user image 417x417]


I wonder if that chinless wonder on the right will ever realize he is the poster child for Ignorance Is Bliss?
 
2020-12-04 6:42:26 PM  
1 vote:

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


I don't think it serves the public to compromise and give corporations immunity for doing nothing to protect its employees. But maybe I can change my mind if Pelosi says corporations can have a few more trillion, no strings attached?

/that last part is sarcastic
 
2020-12-04 6:41:48 PM  
1 vote:
My personal observation is that the people who seem to be saying "kill the covid liability for businesses" are the same people who say things like "If you don't like receiving substandard safety equipment or being sexually assaulted by your boss, just go work somewhere else, gosh".  It's not 100% but there is a very large overlap.
 
2020-12-04 6:40:50 PM  
1 vote:
Don't charactarize it as a mistake?  Okay, how about malfeasance?  Dereliction of duty?  Contempt of Congress and the Constitution?  Crimes Against Humanity?  Am I getting warmer, you psychopathic coont?
 
2020-12-04 6:39:29 PM  
1 vote:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


Its because you think that Trump and the Turtle are working together, while its more like the Turtle isusing Trump as a useful idiot
 
2020-12-04 6:36:22 PM  
1 vote:

IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.


You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.
 
2020-12-04 6:35:43 PM  
1 vote:

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


Oh, we understand compromise.  We have millions of people who are unemployed and living under the poverty line, the GOP just put us 10 trillion into debt to give tax breaks to the wealthy, so we're supposed to take about 150$ per person in the country while those rich who already just got breaks and money from government?

Compromise is:

"We want 2,000$/person"

"No, 1,000$ only. "

"Ok, meet in middle 1,500$"

Not:

"We want 2,000 for each and every person."

"Nope, were going to give 1 trillion to businesses, make them immune from liability and the people get 150$."

"Ok.  That works."

That's not a compromise.  That's getting walked over.
 
2020-12-04 6:28:20 PM  
1 vote:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:27:56 PM  
1 vote:
minnpost.comView Full Size


Mitch McConnell - farking up America for a decade and getting you to blame Democrats for it.
 
2020-12-04 6:25:36 PM  
1 vote:
Guys, you don't have to defend it.  Join us.  C'mon.
 
2020-12-04 6:22:24 PM  
1 vote:

vpb: lolmao500: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

And by nothing you mean all the GOP-connected grifters who stole billions in taxpayers money?

Them and the ordinary people who are unemployed.


So... youre alright with giving the grifters like $500 billion to give legitimate people like $50 billion?
 
2020-12-04 6:21:59 PM  
1 vote:
This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.
 
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