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(Twitter)   Pelosi is scientifically settling for a stimulus bill that will scientifically get people food on the table even though it is scientifically worth $1.3T less than what Democrats previously asked for through scientific analysis. Science   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, shot  
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1760 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2020 at 6:20 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-12-04 4:51:41 PM  
83 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


A lot of people who can't be bothered to vote in down-ticket races will be along shortly to explain how Pelosi should have used mystical parliamentary procedures to somehow enact a bill without the Senate for reasons.
 
2020-12-04 6:27:56 PM  
45 votes:
minnpost.comView Full Size


Mitch McConnell - farking up America for a decade and getting you to blame Democrats for it.
 
2020-12-04 6:25:34 PM  
45 votes:
You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?
 
vpb [recently expired TotalFark]
2020-12-04 4:39:13 PM  
45 votes:
What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.
 
2020-12-04 6:29:13 PM  
41 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?
 
2020-12-04 5:21:24 PM  
40 votes:

TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.


As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:35:43 PM  
38 votes:

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


Oh, we understand compromise.  We have millions of people who are unemployed and living under the poverty line, the GOP just put us 10 trillion into debt to give tax breaks to the wealthy, so we're supposed to take about 150$ per person in the country while those rich who already just got breaks and money from government?

Compromise is:

"We want 2,000$/person"

"No, 1,000$ only. "

"Ok, meet in middle 1,500$"

Not:

"We want 2,000 for each and every person."

"Nope, were going to give 1 trillion to businesses, make them immune from liability and the people get 150$."

"Ok.  That works."

That's not a compromise.  That's getting walked over.
 
2020-12-04 4:38:12 PM  
36 votes:
I guess that a shiat stimulus is better than no stimulus at all. But, it has to pass the senate and get signed by Donny. Soooo...it will be "no stimulus".
 
2020-12-04 6:31:27 PM  
27 votes:
Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.
 
2020-12-04 6:32:53 PM  
26 votes:
We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.
 
2020-12-04 5:11:00 PM  
26 votes:
Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.
 
2020-12-04 6:21:59 PM  
24 votes:
This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.
 
2020-12-04 6:33:20 PM  
22 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


Consider:  Nancy IS a good negotiator, but her goals are more aligned with other career lawmaker Republicans' than with any of America's 328 million small folk, as GoT called us.
 
2020-12-04 6:37:55 PM  
18 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:56:01 PM  
17 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:46:35 PM  
16 votes:
Pelosi bet on Americans not being so farking stupid for ONE time in their life, and sadly lost.  Dems should have won the Senate.  Why in the fark did Susan Collins and Lindsey Graham retain their seats?  Pelosi is now playing the hand she has, post-election.

So many people in this thread living in a fantasyland instead of the America that exists.  People here don't understand double standards. Americans expect Democrats to govern responsibly, and give Republicans a pass for all manner of evil. Here is the current position: if everything goes to hell with no deal, then Biden starts his administration in an even DEEPER hole, which means Biden will be more desperate to pass a relief bill, which means McConnell has even MORE leverage, pending what happens in the runoffs.

I am not mad at Pelosi for not giving 45 a huge pre-election win (and potentially another term) at the cost of permanent immunity for companies and middling stimulus relief. If you're going to help 45 win, he has to give you every damn thing you want for the people, and not a penny less.  Now you pass something to help regular people, and shore up the market, so you're not going hat in hand to McConnell in January.
 
2020-12-04 6:43:05 PM  
16 votes:

Nadie_AZ: TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.

As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

[Fark user image 800x532]


This.  There certainly isn't much Congressional Democrats could have done on the floor in terms of legislation over these past few months, but they could have done way, way more on the ground.  I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place--there's so much they can do to increase their presence and get their stories out.  Tell the people what the Republicans are and aren't doing.  Name them.  Call them out.  Work with activists and grassroots organizations.  Shouldn't this all be obvious?
 
2020-12-04 7:24:50 PM  
15 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 7:17:28 PM  
15 votes:

gadian: leeksfromchichis: gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.

Its what you could get and, literally, all you could get because one side of the negotiators (Repubs) have nothing to lose or gain by saving anyone's life.  If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.  You genuinely can't have it both ways.


What baloney.  Pelosi does not go in with the intent of getting the most for the working class - she goes in with the intent of not upsetting the donor class, so the negotiations cease at that line.  The GOP knows it, and plays her like a fiddle.

Then those who support Everything Nancy scream "WHY, YOU DIRTY PROGRESSIVES! THIS IS YOUR FAULT!"
 
2020-12-04 6:48:22 PM  
15 votes:
This will be the reality for the next 4 years.

Bourgiois democrats do not care about you. They do not care about working people. They will always capitulate to capital and they will always betray your hopes.

Stop relying on any group that continues to support capitalism. They will betray you for the almighty dollar.

The only solution is a protracted peoples movement to establish state socialism with a longterm planned economic transition into communism.

Destroy classes and the state will wither.

Stop expecting the leaders of an empire to willingly dismantle their systems of wealth and power.

I'm not even mad about it anymore. Its expected. I'm just tired of being right about liberals.

Republicans are evil, democrats are enablers of evil.
 
2020-12-04 6:39:30 PM  
15 votes:
Are we just making up bullshiat in the headlines to create infighting threads now? I mean the linked tweet says nothing but that Pelosi is pushing again for a stimulus, not that she's capitulating to republican demands. There's also the fact Pelosi and the house already passed a bill in March. It's in the Senate's hands now. Not hers.
 
2020-12-04 6:24:36 PM  
15 votes:

Nadie_AZ: TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.

As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

[Fark user image 800x532]


you're delusional.  it's a pleasant delusion, but it is a delusion.
 
2020-12-04 6:57:47 PM  
14 votes:
Pelosi is literally admitting she's agreeing to give the republicans what they want in their version before the new president and congress is sworn in and the democrats have a chance of getting what they want. The republicans are only moving on this now because they fear the democrats could get their version passed without republican support so they're offering this turd pile and Nancy is there to scoop it up and call it a big win for the democrats. In reality this will serve as the final excuse for the GOP to say, been there, did that and enough democrats will go along with it to kill any future chance of a better bill.

I'm just farking tired of this. I'd rather the democrats fight and take chances and fail than to just surrender immediately out of custom.
 
2020-12-04 6:32:39 PM  
14 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


That is the game and how we are played.
Biden is already floating how we need to reach out to Republicans in order to pass conservative legislation because they are mad about tweets.
It doesn't matter the excuse, just blame republicans for pushing laws their donors want.
 
2020-12-04 6:26:21 PM  
14 votes:
This is great.
Now that the stock market has hit 3000, another hand out to Wall Street( while throwing dimes at the citizens) will prevent the fund managers from watching their love drop somewhat.
 
2020-12-04 5:30:59 PM  
14 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


And by nothing you mean all the GOP-connected grifters who stole billions in taxpayers money?
 
2020-12-04 8:44:06 PM  
13 votes:

Keizer_Ghidorah: Republicans are of a single mind and share most of the same goals and desires. This is why they're so much stronger than Democrats. Democrats are a herd of cats, many opposed ideologies and "My way is better" along with a desire to avoid conflict at all costs. You will never get Democrats to agree on anything, they will remain divided and weak until the right has fully extinguished them.


Republicans stand their ground and make the unthinkable become acceptable. That's how they can convince people in urgent need of affordable healthcare that they'd be better off without it.

Democrats, however, are so scared of looking unpopular that they won't support policies that actually are popular.

69% of Americans, including 88% of Democrats, said they support Medicare For All, and yet the DNC overwhelmingly opposed putting it into the party platform (even though universal healthcare used to be on the party platform every year from 1948 through 1980), and the party leadership spent 2020 insisting it was political poison.

Well, as it turned out, every single person that ran supporting M4A won their election. Additionally, among the people that ran supporting the Green New Deal, all but one won their elections, too.

Fark user imageView Full Size


https://truthout.org/articles/this-el​e​ction-proved-that-medicare-for-all-is-​a-winning-demand/

https://www.commondreams.org/news/202​0​/11/09/99-green-new-deal-co-sponsors-w​on-their-races-cycle-analysis
 
2020-12-04 6:46:09 PM  
13 votes:

austerity101: This. There certainly isn't much Congressional Democrats could have done on the floor in terms of legislation over these past few months, but they could have done way, way more on the ground. I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place--there's so much they can do to increase their presence and get their stories out. Tell the people what the Republicans are and aren't doing. Name them. Call them out. Work with activists and grassroots organizations. Shouldn't this all be obvious?


It doesn't help them if they did. I mean it doesn't help their corporate donors. That's how far gone that party is. Neither party represents the working class or the poor. They fail every test given them since 2008.
 
2020-12-04 6:31:55 PM  
13 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


We finally found someone with worst negotiation skills than trump.
 
2020-12-04 6:26:34 PM  
13 votes:

iheartscotch: I guess that a shiat stimulus is better than no stimulus at all. But, it has to pass the senate and get signed by Donny. Soooo...it will be "no stimulus".


I disagree. If the republicans have their way, it will only be payments to corporations.  Not paying them as already owns everything even more tax money is better than a one time check that doesn't even cover rent.
 
2020-12-04 6:25:36 PM  
13 votes:
Guys, you don't have to defend it.  Join us.  C'mon.
 
2020-12-04 6:22:24 PM  
13 votes:

vpb: lolmao500: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

And by nothing you mean all the GOP-connected grifters who stole billions in taxpayers money?

Them and the ordinary people who are unemployed.


So... youre alright with giving the grifters like $500 billion to give legitimate people like $50 billion?
 
2020-12-04 6:41:48 PM  
12 votes:
My personal observation is that the people who seem to be saying "kill the covid liability for businesses" are the same people who say things like "If you don't like receiving substandard safety equipment or being sexually assaulted by your boss, just go work somewhere else, gosh".  It's not 100% but there is a very large overlap.
 
2020-12-04 6:40:58 PM  
12 votes:
For fark's sake.  Stimulus and unemployment or GFTO.

Literally nothing else about a potential relief bill matters more right now.
 
2020-12-04 10:06:21 PM  
11 votes:

quatchi: It's a shiat package and everyone knows it.

Not nearly enough and it gives away the farm in terms of preventing suing employers with unsafe practices.

Dems are trying to save face by declaring it is "a good start" but it is not.

And yeah, Mitch McConnell is the Tucker to blame here.

Not so much for her inability to get something better but in her continued insistence that the GOP are good faith partners in gov't.


Don't forget that Pelosi pulled this in March when Jake Tapper of all people called her on giving away all her leverage for nothing and she got all butthurt on live television telling him to cool it and that help for states/people will definitely be done soon.  It's December and we are here again
 
2020-12-04 7:26:39 PM  
11 votes:

Soup4Bonnie: TheOtherGuy: Don't charactarize it as a mistake?  Okay, how about malfeasance?  Dereliction of duty?  Contempt of Congress and the Constitution?  Crimes Against Humanity?  Am I getting warmer, you psychopathic coont?

Mitch still has no bill written or passed in his chamber.

And for that I blame Nancy Pelosi.


Nancy Pelosi failed to consistently show up on the Sunday Morning shows, and effectively LEAD Democratic Party messaging to bake "Mitch McConnell is not even considering anything the duly-elected majority passes in the House."

And for that I blame Mitch McConnell because if I admit that I've been backing feeble leadership all this time, geez.

Pelosi is a prime example of Dems getting sucked into the Sunk Cost Fallacy.  Refusing to cut bait, just for appearances.
 
2020-12-04 7:06:16 PM  
11 votes:
gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.
 
2020-12-04 6:50:04 PM  
11 votes:
I lost my job immediately (like a week) before the coronavirus cutoff. Haven't received a cent of UI because the company that laid us off used a bunch of technicalities. Got $1200 ths year to live on for the last 9 months. I'm glad for the people this will help but there are a farkton of people in America who do not qualify for UI and get jack shiat from this.

I'm looking at being completely broke and probably out on the street if we don't get some relief. Keep farking around with my life and find out what happens.
 
2020-12-04 6:39:29 PM  
11 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


Its because you think that Trump and the Turtle are working together, while its more like the Turtle isusing Trump as a useful idiot
 
2020-12-04 6:26:48 PM  
11 votes:
Timeline for massive year-end bill slipping

Congressional leaders plan to introduce a one-week stopgap funding bill running through Dec. 18, according to aides familiar with the decision who asked for anonymity.

The move comes as it became apparent the current Dec. 11 government funding deadline wasn't feasible, with more work needed both on coronavirus relief deal and the underlying omnibus appropriations package. The two chambers will instead take up the one-week interim bill next week as negotiations continue.

"I was hopeful we'd accomplish those objectives by next Thursday," House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer, D-Md., said on the floor Friday. "Unfortunately, things are not moving as rapidly as I think they ought to."

Leaders on both sides of the aisle don't want to leave town for the year without completing work on a COVID-19 aid package, and they need the omnibus spending bill for a vehicle.

...

But negotiations have been tied up for weeks over a myriad of funding and policy disputes between the two parties.

Chief among them are funding for a southern border wall, immigration detention beds, police restrictions, and how to classify money needed for veterans health care.


Lot of moving parts need to come together before the dick sucking starts.

Also...border wall? Really? We're still doing that? jfc.
 
2020-12-04 8:39:29 PM  
10 votes:
qorkfiend:

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.
 
2020-12-04 8:17:01 PM  
10 votes:
qorkfiend:

In any case, let's not pretend the House didn't pass a number of their own COVID relief bills that died in the Senate, eh? The Democrats made plenty of offers pre-election.

And virtually the only people who know it are the habitually online politics addicts.  They should've been cranking out ads at a Lincoln Project rate all year long.

The gang that can't shoot straight has no ability to connect with voters.  Blame the message or the messenger (or keep fruitlessly blaming voters), they suck at it.  Pelosi now habitually comes on with a "how dare you question me??" attitude.  They are tied to every failed policy passed in the last 30 years.  Every private company in the world would've fired Pelosi and Schumer years ago.  We've got to stop propping up and defending these corpses, and start talking about what to do next.  If we know they can't win the fight, why do we keep leaving them in charge of it?
 
2020-12-04 8:15:15 PM  
10 votes:

Corvus: So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?


As if that isn't already happening.

Coronavirus IX: Evictions: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube R652nwUcJRA


Corvus: FARK: Where hating the Democratic party all the time somehow makes you "Democrat" and supporting them makes you a "Republican". 🤣


Democrats aren't gods, they're our elected officials. We're allowed to say whether we're dissatisfied with their performance, and if necessary, show them the door.
 
2020-12-04 8:04:27 PM  
10 votes:

Corvus: So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?


You can also stop pretending to speak for the poor. No one is buying it.
 
2020-12-04 7:31:32 PM  
10 votes:

qorkfiend: The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?


Tried, as in made a genuine effort? No, no one did that.
As always, the Dems hoisted their milquetoast moderate favorite upon the people as the de facto choice, spent all their energy appealing to conservatives who have never and will never vote for them, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:43 PM  
10 votes:

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


GOP: "You will get almost nothing and like it."

Ancient Dem Party leadership:

Fark user imageView Full Size



If the other side begins from a crazy position, you're a terrible negotiator if you counter with a reasonable offer.  You're showing your feeb hand at that point.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:06 PM  
10 votes:
Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.
 
2020-12-04 6:58:34 PM  
10 votes:
farking fight for something, for once.

No, I'm not talking about Pelosi.

Grow a spine and expect more from your representatives.
 
2020-12-04 9:37:41 PM  
9 votes:

Mr.Insightful: misanthropicsob: I see a lot of "Democrats" in here believing Nancy did the right thing by *checks notes* capitulating to Republicans for a package even smaller than they negotiated with Mnuchin 2 months ago.

I know you kook lefties pride yourself on your ignorance and stupidity, Sob, but "Mnuchin" is not just a misspelling of McConnell.


I know you're used to being wrong, so this feeling should be familiar. Trump and Mnuchin were the ones who offered the $1.8T package they had initially worked through with Pelosi before she turned her back on it.

McConnell was, supposedly, not behind it at that point.
 
2020-12-04 9:21:01 PM  
9 votes:
I see a lot of "Democrats" in here believing Nancy did the right thing by *checks notes* capitulating to Republicans for a package even smaller than they negotiated with Mnuchin 2 months ago.
 
2020-12-04 7:09:30 PM  
9 votes:
Biden and Pelosi are temporarily embarrassed Republicans.
We have been shown this for decades.
At this point it is like yelling at a dog for peeing on the rug two hours after he asked you to go outside.
We know who they are, we had the opportunity to let them out but we didn't.
Instead they are going to just make messes on the rug for two years.
 
2020-12-04 9:58:33 PM  
8 votes:
It's a shiat package and everyone knows it.

Not nearly enough and it gives away the farm in terms of preventing suing employers with unsafe practices.

Dems are trying to save face by declaring it is "a good start" but it is not.

And yeah, Mitch McConnell is the Tucker to blame here.

Not so much for her inability to get something better but in her continued insistence that the GOP are good faith partners in gov't.
 
2020-12-04 8:02:23 PM  
8 votes:

ReaverZ: Stop being childish, stop. Having a tantrum because you didn't get everything you your way is only an acceptable tactic of discussion when you are between two and three years old. Ounce you are four years or older, you learn to share, compromise, trade and that you do not get everything you want. And if you don't get everything your way, you do not get to ruin it for everyone else.


Aw, how adorable, lookit the internet rando bristling up like a kitten learning how to be fierce and intimidating for the first time. Congrats, you just outed yourself as a spectator-sport voter who had nothing at stake this election. You don't impress me and you sure as hell don't speak for who you want us to believe you speak for, because you don't speak for me. Another privileged radical centrist who is tired of being compared to MLK's White Moderate while doing a spot-on impression of him. Might as well copy-and-paste this for you:

I know piss-yellow Farkers like you and qork can't get this through your thick skulls but by using disingenuous framing like "get what you want," you betray your pure seething contempt for the working poor and the left by implying that the truly desperate in this nation are all spoiled brats stomping their feet and demanding more than they'll ever need.

To say nothing of how you presume to know our needs better than we do, or how soon we ought to have it... if COVID doesn't wipe out this entire nation, NIMBY Syndrome will.
 
2020-12-04 7:02:05 PM  
8 votes:

Nonpo: Pelosi is literally admitting she's agreeing to give the republicans what they want in their version before the new president and congress is sworn in and the democrats have a chance of getting what they want. The republicans are only moving on this now because they fear the democrats could get their version passed without republican support so they're offering this turd pile and Nancy is there to scoop it up and call it a big win for the democrats. In reality this will serve as the final excuse for the GOP to say, been there, did that and enough democrats will go along with it to kill any future chance of a better bill.

I'm just farking tired of this. I'd rather the democrats fight and take chances and fail than to just surrender immediately out of custom.


Here's a run down of the sum total of the discussion:

The people:  Hey lots of us are dying and millions of us are about to literally starve to death or homeless if we don't get some support.  We need something, anything.

Republicans: Heh, we're not going to give shiat.  Die you poors.

Dems:  fark, the republicans aren't going to give us shiat, but like, millions of people are literally going to die or be homeless if they don't get help.  We gotta do something, anything.

Republicans:  Enjoy your breadcrumbs.

Pelsoi: shiat, this is awful, but it's something.

The people:  You should've held out longer, in the meantime getting us no relief even when we literally told you we needed help right way.  You suck at negotiating.

That brings us to present day.
 
2020-12-04 7:00:38 PM  
8 votes:

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."
 
2020-12-04 6:51:02 PM  
8 votes:
I swear, fark every one of you morons that see the bullshiat the GOP is pulling and whine "why won't the democrats just COMMMPROMISE."

These same people turn around and biatch about how the Democrats are weak and that they won't fight.

You dumbfarks are the reason Mitch is constantly smiling, because for some stupid reason when a rapist has a gun to your head and tells you he won't kill if you don't fight, your response is "hmm, that's a fair compromise."
 
2020-12-04 6:51:01 PM  
8 votes:

Nadie_AZ: austerity101: This. There certainly isn't much Congressional Democrats could have done on the floor in terms of legislation over these past few months, but they could have done way, way more on the ground. I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place--there's so much they can do to increase their presence and get their stories out. Tell the people what the Republicans are and aren't doing. Name them. Call them out. Work with activists and grassroots organizations. Shouldn't this all be obvious?

It doesn't help them if they did. I mean it doesn't help their corporate donors. That's how far gone that party is. Neither party represents the working class or the poor. They fail every test given them since 2008.


And this is why f*ck moderates and centrists, honestly.
 
2020-12-04 6:39:56 PM  
8 votes:
Well, PBS Newshour is being obnoxious today. Their interviewers keep saying that the deficit is "now reaching uprecendented levels" and "unheard of levels" instead of saying that the deficit reached those levels months ago under president Trump. They're basically setting it up as a problem that is suddenly upon the USA and they've limited it to conversations about Biden. The Dems are already being painted into a spending corner.
 
2020-12-05 2:24:18 AM  
7 votes:
Gyrfalcon:

Please be specific. How does the bill as proposed today give the Republicans "everything they want" and leave the Democrats with nothing they want?

You mean aside from it being another massive handout to wall street and it giving businesses immunity from liability for providing an unsafe working environment?
 
2020-12-04 10:23:25 PM  
7 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.



History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.
 
2020-12-04 10:04:39 PM  
7 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Mr.Insightful: misanthropicsob: Mr.Insightful: misanthropicsob: I see a lot of "Democrats" in here believing Nancy did the right thing by *checks notes* capitulating to Republicans for a package even smaller than they negotiated with Mnuchin 2 months ago.

I know you kook lefties pride yourself on your ignorance and stupidity, Sob, but "Mnuchin" is not just a misspelling of McConnell.

I know you're used to being wrong, so this feeling should be familiar. Trump and Mnuchin were the ones who offered the $1.8T package they had initially worked through with Pelosi before she turned her back on it.

McConnell was, supposedly, not behind it at that point.

Ah, so at least you recognize that McConnell wasn't behind the package, and probably wouldn't have passed it.

If I didn't know you better, I'd think it rather adorable that you think that 1.8T offer without McConnell's signoff was actually on the up-and-up, given how often Republicans lie, SOB. It's like you really truly want to take the right wing at their word. But we all know that the real reason why you are pretending that offer was real and not bullshiat, is because you are doing your damndest to shiat on Democrats, especially if it helps Republicans. Accelerationism and all that.

People who aren't assholes like you, Sob, know that the final numbers aren't the starting numbers. Well, you do too. You're just lying, as typical.

If McConnell wouldn't have passed it anyway, why are the democrats preemptively rolling over like cowards?

Because their interests are the same as the Republicans. Their donors and their peers are the wealthy and the corporate internationalists.

Otherwise, why not craft a bill which would show how much they want to do for the working class?

Neither would pass, but one would avoid this very back and forth between cheerleaders and actual working class people.


Technically, House Dems started with a $3.4T bill. Centrist Dems watered it down to $2.2T and passed it. Then Mnuchin counter-offered a $1.8T bill, but Pelosi shunned it for the hopes of looking strong to win the election.

Since Democrats lost another crapton of down ballot seats, Pelosi is now lobbying for a package that is worth less than 50% of what Mnuchin had offered.
 
2020-12-04 9:37:15 PM  
7 votes:

Jiggatron69: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."

Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.

He took a long time to basically say "I got mine so frak you". What an unsatisfying conclusion.  Almost as bad as Season 8 of GoT


Yeah, he's clearly just a conservative reactionary. But the very fact that he is claims to be a vocal Democrat should give many in this thread pause.

This is the class the democratic leadership rhetorically ponders to, while serving the interests of the largest international corporations.

But he's got a house in the 'burbs so fark the poors.
 
2020-12-04 9:19:01 PM  
7 votes:

Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.


Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.
 
2020-12-04 8:19:17 PM  
7 votes:
Nothing HOHOHO funnier than a right-leaning Moderate™ trying to imply that progressives are the ones who have or will ever shiat on black voters.

Decades of your group's policies not just failing black voters, but sending them backwards in many ways.

/war on drugs supporting mofos have happily decimated the nation's young black males
//but the gop is worse so it's okay that you've been pointedly awful human beings
 
2020-12-04 8:00:57 PM  
7 votes:
I remain convinced that my furby Quixote could legislate better than Nancy Pelosi.

Fark user imageView Full Size


/doo?
 
2020-12-04 7:36:58 PM  
7 votes:

gadian: leeksfromchichis: gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.

Its what you could get and, literally, all you could get because one side of the negotiators (Repubs) have nothing to lose or gain by saving anyone's life.  If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.  You genuinely can't have it both ways.


Imagine you've been captured by Roman soldiers in a bad sack and a whole tent of 'em have decided have their way with you violently. In bursts a centurian who convinces them to leave you half a dinar when they're done. The soldiers are the gop, the centurian is pelosi. Is that dinar the fruits of good negotiation?
 
2020-12-04 7:32:36 PM  
7 votes:

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanton murder does not make a movement.

Then what the fark does this even mean?

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall."

You can't threaten murder and then backtrack and say it's not a movement. God damn, you are a yappy, impotent dog, aren't you? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt of actually being a revolutionary, but now I see you're no Che Guevara, you're Justa Complaina.


That is what we should be saying to McConnell.

If bourgioisie feared the working class rather than disdained us, we might be able to force a level of capitulation in the short term.

So long as moderates attack leftists, the gop will continue to exploit us all.
 
2020-12-04 7:23:32 PM  
7 votes:

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.

If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.


Wanton murder does not make a movement.

And I dont smart my own comments. That wouldn't serve a purpose.

If I cared about popularity contests I'd post shiatlib memes.
 
2020-12-04 7:18:15 PM  
7 votes:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?

Obviously


Good. Start saying that more instead of trying to give people cover for underperforming.
 
2020-12-04 6:49:28 PM  
7 votes:

Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!


It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.
 
2020-12-04 6:46:48 PM  
7 votes:
She thought she would be in a stronger negotiating position after the election, and that was not a crazy thought considering the polls were so bad even Republicans were shocked they did so well down ballot.  But now McConnell is in the drivers seat, so if the Dems don;t win Georgia he will happily stand asid, watch the country burn and blame it all on Pelosi and Biden.
 
2020-12-04 6:31:29 PM  
7 votes:
You can in fact state that it's a shiat situation while also realizing that waiting until January to try this will leave thousands homeless and a good number dead... for the holidays.

The GOP being worse assholes doesn't make you not an asshole. I don't like it, but I'm not an entitled shiat willing to let tens of thousands suffer to be greedy.

We didn't get the numbers we wanted in the Senate to be pushy. Acting like we did makes you look like a moron.
 
2020-12-04 6:25:26 PM  
7 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".
 
2020-12-05 3:29:18 AM  
6 votes:
Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.
 
2020-12-05 2:44:34 AM  
6 votes:
Gyrfalcon:

Also, where is this handout to Wall Street? I'm not seeing that either.

You see nothing in the stimulus that is earmarked as money for businesses? Not a single penny?
 
2020-12-04 9:44:39 PM  
6 votes:

qorkfiend: leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.

Right. So, nothing then?


Nothing is preferable to death and destruction caused directly by corporation security being legally protected with a tiny garnish of nowhere near enough money months late and being expected to eat the DNC's ass out like it was full of ice cream.

But what I actually would like to see is the Democrats not "compromising" with nation destroying pro-corporate stuff and go back to the party of the people they used to be before my lifetime.
 
2020-12-04 9:29:56 PM  
6 votes:

ReaverZ: I Like Bread: Corvus: So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?

You can also stop pretending to speak for the poor. No one is buying it.

No, you stop pretending you give a fark. You are fraud, spouting off bs one lines trying to get imaginary internet points. Purpurosea at least has something to say and an argument to make. You are just thread shiatting.


Of course you have nothing better than "I'm rubber and you're glue," you projecting one-dimensional hack. Don't worry your little head about what happens when "it all falls apart" because if it comes to that, people like me will be taking back by force what we're owed. You'll either be the powder-faced aristocrat getting the guillotine or the weak capitulator, seeking an absence of conflict rather than a presence of justice, that we'll trample on the way there.

You're clearly a FYIGM drone trapped inside MLK's White Moderate. Work out your inner conflict on your own time and leave us out of it.
 
2020-12-04 8:52:13 PM  
6 votes:

mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.


I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.
 
2020-12-04 8:28:13 PM  
6 votes:

Wanderlusting: That moment when you realize it was introduced by a Democrat, passed overwhelmingly in the House, passed 96-4 in the Senate and signed by a Democratic President ...


Dat moment you realize those democrats are right-leaning moderates...
 
2020-12-04 7:38:46 PM  
6 votes:

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."


Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.
 
2020-12-04 7:31:18 PM  
6 votes:

DarkDawg: There were able to remove some thigns now anyway.  They wanted money to help fund the postal service as well as secure the election.  They were also hoping that the Dems would flip the senate.

The firts few things are no longer an issue, as the election is done, and the dems did not get the senate.  So they have to compromise, also Trump is gone, so they can play a little lose with things because they know with trump gone they can hold out a bit if the gop tries to add crap back in trump would of wanted.

It sucks, but its better then nothing at this point.

and shes not wrong.  A vaccine is suppose to be released by the end of the year to the end of jan, that means they will need less funding then what they needed 6-1 month ago.  when no vaccine was in sight


We needed a full years' worth of relief and protections.  We got, at most, four months of relief, ONE stimulus check, and a patchwork quilt of wildly inconsistent eviction moratoria without any rent or mortgage forgiveness.  We're pretty far behind on funding we need and it would be immoral and criminal to ignore the fact that there's been no assistance from the government since July.  F*cking July.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:49 PM  
6 votes:

Wanderlusting: To be fair, nobody was suing any businesses anyways. Immunity from a giant nothingburger like suing your employer for Covid seems like an easy thing to rollover on.

Also, good luck convincing a court you caught Covid at work and not at the local grocery store, or gas station, or Costco, or WalMart, or everywhere else people have gone since the shutdowns were lifted.


Fark user imageView Full Size


https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2020/​1​1/18/lawsuit-tyson-managers-bet-money-​on-how-many-workers-would-contract-cov​id-19/
 
2020-12-04 7:16:45 PM  
6 votes:

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?


LOL with a PRO-Trump Democrat

Nice try
 
2020-12-04 7:14:21 PM  
6 votes:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?


So you're committed to fighting for something substantial? Good to hear. It just reads like you're more concerned with stifling criticism than addressing real problems.
 
2020-12-04 7:10:34 PM  
6 votes:

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.
 
2020-12-04 7:03:52 PM  
6 votes:
Americans are too stupid, they voted for more republicans in the house and left it the same in the senate.

This country is farking done. Theres no way we get back to sanity without a lot of people dying. 275 000 dead from covid, 200 000+ dead from the opiod crisis and millions dead from shiatty/lack of health care wasnt enough to send a message to the average person, apparently, itll take a full real-life history course where millions are jailed and tortured, tens of millions sent into homelessness and abject poverty and millions more are killed by the government before people realize how farking evil the GOP and their corporate overlords are and no amount of alcohol, weed and netflix will be able to make people ignore the reality or forget about it.

/this country is entering the end portion of the collapse and people are still in farking denial
//biden is pretty much farked no matter what he does
 
2020-12-04 7:00:03 PM  
6 votes:

Znuh: You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?


Then she should say that, instead of that this is a success.
 
2020-12-04 6:56:34 PM  
6 votes:

qorkfiend: I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.


I know it is your thing but don't be a complete tool.
The amount of money being given to Americans isn't useful to anyone.
It is like that guy who offers a McDonalds cheeseburger to a hooker for services.
The only ones that get relief again are the companies that paying politicians to not have to contribute to out society with taxes.
 
2020-12-04 6:51:30 PM  
6 votes:
I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.
 
2020-12-04 6:48:34 PM  
6 votes:

lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.


Because f*ck the commoners, that's why.
 
2020-12-04 6:48:09 PM  
6 votes:

Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 6:43:42 PM  
6 votes:

lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.


Perhaps it is the start of the roll back of OSHA.
 
2020-12-04 6:40:50 PM  
6 votes:
Don't charactarize it as a mistake?  Okay, how about malfeasance?  Dereliction of duty?  Contempt of Congress and the Constitution?  Crimes Against Humanity?  Am I getting warmer, you psychopathic coont?
 
2020-12-04 6:37:26 PM  
6 votes:

eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.


Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!
 
2020-12-04 6:28:10 PM  
6 votes:
"Scientifically get people food on the table?" Good god, you leftists truly ARE monsters!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 2:19:26 AM  
5 votes:

lordjupiter: I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most. I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25. Which deal is worth more to you?


Dunno. When my crooked boss breaches the contract, am I going to have to hire a lawyer and lose my job to recover the promised $25?

Trickle down doesn't work, goddammit.
 
2020-12-04 11:42:47 PM  
5 votes:
When you are wealthy enough to afford firewood burning the ladder rungs just makes you an asshole.
 
2020-12-04 9:53:35 PM  
5 votes:

Mr.Insightful: misanthropicsob: Mr.Insightful: misanthropicsob: I see a lot of "Democrats" in here believing Nancy did the right thing by *checks notes* capitulating to Republicans for a package even smaller than they negotiated with Mnuchin 2 months ago.

I know you kook lefties pride yourself on your ignorance and stupidity, Sob, but "Mnuchin" is not just a misspelling of McConnell.

I know you're used to being wrong, so this feeling should be familiar. Trump and Mnuchin were the ones who offered the $1.8T package they had initially worked through with Pelosi before she turned her back on it.

McConnell was, supposedly, not behind it at that point.

Ah, so at least you recognize that McConnell wasn't behind the package, and probably wouldn't have passed it.

If I didn't know you better, I'd think it rather adorable that you think that 1.8T offer without McConnell's signoff was actually on the up-and-up, given how often Republicans lie, SOB. It's like you really truly want to take the right wing at their word. But we all know that the real reason why you are pretending that offer was real and not bullshiat, is because you are doing your damndest to shiat on Democrats, especially if it helps Republicans. Accelerationism and all that.

People who aren't assholes like you, Sob, know that the final numbers aren't the starting numbers. Well, you do too. You're just lying, as typical.


If McConnell wouldn't have passed it anyway, why are the democrats preemptively rolling over like cowards?

Because their interests are the same as the Republicans. Their donors and their peers are the wealthy and the corporate internationalists.

Otherwise, why not craft a bill which would show how much they want to do for the working class?

Neither would pass, but one would avoid this very back and forth between cheerleaders and actual working class people.
 
2020-12-04 9:28:40 PM  
5 votes:

Cornelius Dribble: Znuh: You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?

If you tally up the most harmful and longest-lasting government actions of the last four years, you will realize that while Donald Trump was playing at being president, the real president of the United States was Mitch McConnell.


What is with people trying to rehabilitate Republican presidents? George W Bush wasn't evil; Dick Cheney was the mastermind. Trump wasn't bad; it was Mitch McConnell.

Stop rehabilitating shiat presidents.
 
2020-12-04 9:11:36 PM  
5 votes:

Stibium: austerity101: Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky

I mean, this how sanctions work, though.  Someone innocent will get hurt.  Sucks if it's you.

Meanwhile people in this very thread seem to believe it's not ok for a single American to go one more second without stimulus.


I desperately need stimulus, though I also acknowledge I'm not one of the hardest hit--I still have a roof over my head, and I'm still getting (the bare minimum in) unemployment.  But I'd rather get nothing else, ever, if it means that Republicans don't get their OSHA-hobbling measures.
 
2020-12-04 8:54:58 PM  
5 votes:

ReaverZ: purpurosea:

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

Then we agree and I have totally missed half you posts...Have a lovely weekend.


I get I'm often combative when I participate in threads like these and I appreciate that can often read like I hate Democrats. I want us (not specifically you and me, our party broadly) to be able to have discussions with each other about the best course of action without acting like the sky is falling because we don't always see eye to eye. I feel like we need to be able to talk about both, the positives and the negatives, in order for us to understand the shape of the elephant we're feeling up at different angles.

I want my politics to be seen as driven by love and compassion - if that's not clear from what I say, then I'm not doing a very good job of it. So I'll apologize and wish you a good weekend too.
 
2020-12-04 8:52:32 PM  
5 votes:

Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky


Yeah farkers are really callous toward working class people from rural areas.

I'm sorry you're dealing with the shiat you're experiencing.

I'll occasionally listen to the Trillbillies podcast out of Eastern Kentucky. That senate race sounded like a shiatshow by the democrats.

Solidarity from Louisiana.
 
2020-12-04 8:38:06 PM  
5 votes:

OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!


LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky
 
2020-12-04 8:37:14 PM  
5 votes:

Cagey B: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

A lot of people who can't be bothered to vote in down-ticket races will be along shortly to explain how Pelosi should have used mystical parliamentary procedures to somehow enact a bill without the Senate for reasons.


I know, right? I'm 100% done with having conversations with people online that go like this:

Them: Those damned Democrats are just Republicans in other clothing. Why aren't they passing relief bills!
Me: They literally have passed a bunch of them for months. They only control the House, laws go through both chambers. Republicans control the Senate and won't even vote on anything Mitch McConnell hasn't personally approved.
T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.
T: No way! The Democrats could do more! They could pass something all by themselves! They should be marching in the streets! They don't wanna! Whaaaarrrggghlllll
M: /surprised this person can even read the written word

So farking tired of that shiat.

ONE motherfarker is the problem, shockingly it isn't actually Trump in this particular instance, learn how our farking legislative system works at a basic level before opining about what someone in it should be doing, and get it through our farking heads already - widespread public pressure is generally completely ignored by the GOP. They ONLY care about their gaslit suckers, they don't really give much of a shiat about our marches besides them being a temporary nuisance for their drivers.

Anybody angry about this SHOULD BE - it is appropriate to be furious about it. But you want to farking DO something about it? Do something to support the runoffs for those senate seats in GA. Both seats need to be won by Democrats. If they are and still nothing happens? I'll be right there with them screaming at Democrats to use what tools they can.

But if we lose those races and the GOP retains control of the senate... well, the GOP doesn't care if government doesn't work - they RUN ON BREAKING IT. Works for them if government fails us, and they'll do what they can to bring it to a halt. Like they've been doing. Be pissed at the people who have decided to use their power to sabotage the US, and the founders to make a system so game-able to compromise with slavers - not the people fighting them for not having magic goddamned powers.
 
2020-12-04 8:27:13 PM  
5 votes:

Wanderlusting: gameshowhost: Nothing HOHOHO funnier than a right-leaning Moderate™ trying to imply that progressives are the ones who have or will ever shiat on black voters.

Decades of your group's policies not just failing black voters, but sending them backwards in many ways.

/war on drugs supporting mofos have happily decimated the nation's young black males
//but the gop is worse so it's okay that you've been pointedly awful human beings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_​Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

That moment when you realize it was introduced by a Democrat, passed overwhelmingly in the House, passed 96-4 in the Senate and signed by a Democratic President ...

[scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net image 540x770]


If we're going to call it a failure, and we should, that can only be done credibly by new leadership.
 
2020-12-04 8:25:04 PM  
5 votes:

ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out

No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better.


Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

Not sure where your purity rhetoric is coming from, or how you come to the conclusion that I'm asking for more for myself. I've had my struggles during the last year, but I am not in need, not in the way people who have lost their jobs or homes or loved ones are.

I don't accept that criticizing Democratic leadership is "trying to fark it up for everyone else."

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child
 
2020-12-04 8:11:54 PM  
5 votes:

Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 8:10:37 PM  
5 votes:

Corvus: FARK: Where hating the Democratic party all the time somehow makes you "Democrat" and supporting them makes you a "Republican". 🤣


Considering the current democratic leaders have decades' long histories of capitulation to the republicans and moving the party to the right, liking them and/or their approach is tantamount to liking the republicans and anyone who leans towards helping the working class would be good friends with the democrats of a few generations ago.

But I can see where, other than the people you criticize being completely correct and your criticism reinforcing their correctness, you have a point.

I agree that "Fark: 😬"
 
2020-12-04 8:03:33 PM  
5 votes:

Gyrfalcon: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

I'm not sure why people heap so much blame on Pelosi, or anyone else, really, when the buck stops right on McConnell's desk. And I'm not sure why people are heaping blame on "the Democrats" for failing to unseat Yertle, when Amy McGrath was vigorously campaigning against him for over a year. She was neck and neck with him until a week before the election, and isn't that strange.

There is one person, and ONLY one, who is responsible for the bullshiat in Congress, and somehow he keeps skating away from scrutiny.


Probably because all we here is how they're going to fight for us only for them to roll over and let McConnell and the GOP do what they want.
 
2020-12-04 7:56:01 PM  
5 votes:

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.


No, I'm blaming Democrats for having no way of dealing with him. He exists, so unless he's the king they need to find a way to get their shiat passed before the people that don't recognize the actual problem start blaming Democrats.
 
2020-12-04 7:38:37 PM  
5 votes:

ReaverZ: bluejeansonfire: Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.

run for office then


If you're not currently running for office then I guess it's logical to assume you are perfectly satisfied with everything happening in the nation right now.
 
2020-12-04 7:15:45 PM  
5 votes:

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.


Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.
 
2020-12-04 7:05:00 PM  
5 votes:

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

This coming from someone who sits around all day on Fark and talks tough.

Seriously, why should we take someone like yourself the least bit serious?  Or do you see being an ITG as a redeeming quality?


You shouldn't. You should take people who are out there every day fighting for a revolution seriously.

I'm just some guy on fark. I'm not looking to start a movement.

Read marx. Read Lenin. Read Mao.

Join a union. Join the IWW.

Work local. If you're in my area you'll end up working with me without even knowing it.
 
2020-12-04 7:03:32 PM  
5 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."


Yeah, right.

You actually taking physical action against the government?  Please, don't make me laugh.

You'll sit on your couch and tell everyone else to go and do it.  You won't get up off your ass to do a thing.
 
2020-12-04 7:02:29 PM  
5 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.


This coming from someone who sits around all day on Fark and talks tough.

Seriously, why should we take someone like yourself the least bit serious?  Or do you see being an ITG as a redeeming quality?
 
2020-12-04 6:56:36 PM  
5 votes:

eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?


He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?
 
2020-12-04 6:45:51 PM  
5 votes:

lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.


Actually I heard a meat packing company is being sued because they stayed open early without taken much precaution and the bosses actually had a pool running on the workers that developed COVID.
 
2020-12-04 6:42:40 PM  
5 votes:

Bennie Crabtree: Well, PBS Newshour is being obnoxious today. Their interviewers keep saying that the deficit is "now reaching uprecendented levels" and "unheard of levels" instead of saying that the deficit reached those levels months ago under president Trump. They're basically setting it up as a problem that is suddenly upon the USA and they've limited it to conversations about Biden. The Dems are already being painted into a spending corner.


Inflation is low.  The US dollar is the world's Reserve Currency, which means demand for it is higher than it should be, which means we can deficit spend even more without causing high inflation than we normally should be able to.  Spend away, you morons.
 
2020-12-04 6:42:26 PM  
5 votes:

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


I don't think it serves the public to compromise and give corporations immunity for doing nothing to protect its employees. But maybe I can change my mind if Pelosi says corporations can have a few more trillion, no strings attached?

/that last part is sarcastic
 
2020-12-04 6:40:07 PM  
5 votes:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


The Turtle was never on board with the $1.8 trillion dollar bill (nor $1.2 trillion) and Pelosi knew it.  He's the main one you need to negotiate with, not Trump.  Trump will sign anything that is popular (or at least he would prior to the election).
 
2020-12-04 6:36:22 PM  
5 votes:

IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.


You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.
 
2020-12-05 2:05:02 AM  
4 votes:

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


Giving Republicans everything they want and forfeiting everything Democrats want is not compromise. Pelosi is offender #1 here.
 
2020-12-05 12:18:21 AM  
4 votes:

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


There's a point where compromise becomes collaboration/capitulation.

At some point when people argue that you should be happy that you're getting nothing, while the opposition is getting everything they demanded, you need to realise that you didn't "compromise" on anything; you simply got your ass handed to you, and you need to figure out if the person responsible for that result did it deliberately or if they're just bad at their job.
 
2020-12-05 12:12:49 AM  
4 votes:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


The people who need help still aren't going to get it, at least nothing meaningful, or are you referring to the money being slated to the airlines and other multi-billion dollar industries who already took more than $3.9 trillion from the first round of stimulus?
 
2020-12-04 11:37:51 PM  
4 votes:

Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.


So, you admit, you don't want to work with progressives and consider them your enemy.

This is a mainstream Democratic position, so I'm not surprised.
 
2020-12-04 10:39:57 PM  
4 votes:

Jiggatron69: quatchi: It's a shiat package and everyone knows it.

Not nearly enough and it gives away the farm in terms of preventing suing employers with unsafe practices.

Dems are trying to save face by declaring it is "a good start" but it is not.

And yeah, Mitch McConnell is the Tucker to blame here.

Not so much for her inability to get something better but in her continued insistence that the GOP are good faith partners in gov't.

Don't forget that Pelosi pulled this in March when Jake Tapper of all people called her on giving away all her leverage for nothing and she got all butthurt on live television telling him to cool it and that help for states/people will definitely be done soon.  It's December and we are here again


It's amazing to me that "it's time to try a new Speaker" is even controversial.  The fact that Dems don't see that as obvious makes me deeply pessimistic about ever breaking through Democratic inertia so the party can be a change agent.
 
2020-12-04 10:12:41 PM  
4 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Otherwise, why not craft a bill which would show how much they want to do for the working class?


Exactly. Make THAT the baseline, roll it up, and continue smacking McConnell in the nose with it until he stops shiatting all over the floor.
 
2020-12-04 9:50:48 PM  
4 votes:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: Jiggatron69: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."

Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.

He took a long time to basically say "I got mine so frak you". What an unsatisfying conclusion.  Almost as bad as Season 8 of GoT

Yeah, he's clearly just a conservative reactionary. But the very fact that he is claims to be a vocal Democrat should give many in this thread pause.

This is the class the democratic leadership rhetorically ponders to, while serving the interests of the largest international corporations.

But he's got a house in the 'burbs so fark the poors.

Conceding the suburbs to the GOP is an odd strategy.


Electoralism is a failed strategy.

The democrats aren't going to help the working class, regardless of the way the burbs vote.

This is a simple matter of class contradictions within capitalism.

Appealing to the "needs" of the comfortable and reasonably wealthy alienates the working class.

The democrats have done this before and it destroyed their electoral chances.

The working class has the numbers. The party ought to appeal to them.

But please proceed to pander to the wealthy. That's sure to work out well in '22 and '24.
 
2020-12-04 9:11:07 PM  
4 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."

Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.


He took a long time to basically say "I got mine so frak you". What an unsatisfying conclusion.  Almost as bad as Season 8 of GoT
 
2020-12-04 8:36:12 PM  
4 votes:

Wanderlusting: gameshowhost: Nothing HOHOHO funnier than a right-leaning Moderate™ trying to imply that progressives are the ones who have or will ever shiat on black voters.

Decades of your group's policies not just failing black voters, but sending them backwards in many ways.

/war on drugs supporting mofos have happily decimated the nation's young black males
//but the gop is worse so it's okay that you've been pointedly awful human beings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_​Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

That moment when you realize it was introduced by a Democrat, passed overwhelmingly in the House, passed 96-4 in the Senate and signed by a Democratic President ...

[scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net image 540x770]


hey don't agree with me.. you're making me look bad
 
2020-12-04 8:15:56 PM  
4 votes:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?


Sure, just like sometimes you bet before the flop.

It was smart to not compromise before, when breadcrumbs could have saved lives, and it's smart to have compromised for breadcrumbs now that the problem is demonstrably worse and the value of breadcrumbs has dropped significantly?

I'd argue at least one of these had to have been a mistake, but then I'd be accused of blaming Democrats for literally everything, I guess.

Two months ago you don't know what the value of the breadcrumbs is going to do.

They're not mutually exclusive propositions. The hope was that the election would get McConnell out of power so that you don't have to compromise with him. It didn't, so you do.

You're arguing with the benefit of hindsight. It's easy to say "you should have gone all in" after you've seen what the cards look like.

In any case, let's not pretend the House didn't pass a number of their own COVID relief bills that died in the Senate, eh? The Democrats made plenty of offers pre-election.


If breadcrumbs were worthless before, how would we expect them to be more valuable now? We knew months ahead of time how bad the COVID problem was going to get, where we are now is not a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention. Betting on having all three branches of government before you accept "something" isn't a good gamble. Why doesn't "You can't always get what you want" apply here?
 
2020-12-04 8:11:35 PM  
4 votes:
I Like Bread:

Bullshiat, you don't care about the poor. You don't care about Covid deaths. You want to watch it all fall apart so you can feel superior and how you were right all along. Piss off you wanna be.
 
2020-12-04 7:54:51 PM  
4 votes:

Corvus: Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"

Wouldn't like millions of people be homeless?


That's a pretty high price to pay for senate seats.


OK, BOOMER Pelosi

Do you think Republicans would like for that to happen if it means that Democrats in Georgia would be EVEN MORE fired up? McConnell would love nothing more for Pelosi to accept the shiat sandwich.

Personally, I'd rather starve than eat that.
 
2020-12-04 7:51:25 PM  
4 votes:

OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!


If Lincoln had burned the south to the farking ground like they should have been post-civil war, all this would have been avoided.

Mitch would have never been born and all those scumbags making the GOP of today would have never existed.
 
2020-12-04 7:49:02 PM  
4 votes:

quo vadimus: Wanderlusting: To be fair, nobody was suing any businesses anyways. Immunity from a giant nothingburger like suing your employer for Covid seems like an easy thing to rollover on.

Also, good luck convincing a court you caught Covid at work and not at the local grocery store, or gas station, or Costco, or WalMart, or everywhere else people have gone since the shutdowns were lifted.

[Fark user image 377x750]

https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2020/1​1/18/lawsuit-tyson-managers-bet-money-​on-how-many-workers-would-contract-cov​id-19/


Back in the day, betting how many of your employees would die from covid would be something you would get murdered for and everybody would be cheering when it happens.

This is comic book vilain type of stuff.
 
2020-12-04 7:26:08 PM  
4 votes:

qorkfiend: I'm not giving them "cover". I'm pointing out there's a huge turtle-shaped roadblock named Mitch McConnell in the way and that to a great degree he personally controls whether something gets done or not. (We also call these kind of factual, verifiable observations "reality". And no, I don't want to hear about how you think "should" be.)


Exactly this.  Mitch decides who and how many live or die.  Full stop.  Right now there is no parlimentary run around for it because so many assholes kept voting Republican.  From an academic perspective, I'm wondering when someone with nothing to lose cottons onto this.  Mitch is certainly in the process of farking around, eventually someone should bring the "and find out" portion.
 
2020-12-04 7:23:14 PM  
4 votes:

ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?


No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates on this site haven't been calling Pelosi a master tactician for the last few years, I don't know what to tell you.

It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?
 
2020-12-04 7:21:04 PM  
4 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.
 
2020-12-04 7:14:40 PM  
4 votes:

gadian: Nonpo: Pelosi is literally admitting she's agreeing to give the republicans what they want in their version before the new president and congress is sworn in and the democrats have a chance of getting what they want. The republicans are only moving on this now because they fear the democrats could get their version passed without republican support so they're offering this turd pile and Nancy is there to scoop it up and call it a big win for the democrats. In reality this will serve as the final excuse for the GOP to say, been there, did that and enough democrats will go along with it to kill any future chance of a better bill.

I'm just farking tired of this. I'd rather the democrats fight and take chances and fail than to just surrender immediately out of custom.

Here's a run down of the sum total of the discussion:

The people:  Hey lots of us are dying and millions of us are about to literally starve to death or homeless if we don't get some support.  We need something, anything.

Republicans: Heh, we're not going to give shiat.  Die you poors.

Dems:  fark, the republicans aren't going to give us shiat, but like, millions of people are literally going to die or be homeless if they don't get help.  We gotta do something, anything.

Republicans:  Enjoy your breadcrumbs.

Pelsoi: shiat, this is awful, but it's something.

The people:  You should've held out longer, in the meantime getting us no relief even when we literally told you we needed help right way.  You suck at negotiating.

That brings us to present day.


We desperately need relief.
We also need that relief to be at least a certain amount to keep people alive.
We also desperately need Republicans not to get blanket corporate immunity.

The people are starving and dying.  Let us not expect them to be reasonable in their desperations.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:01 PM  
4 votes:

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Yeah, right.

You actually taking physical action against the government?  Please, don't make me laugh.

You'll sit on your couch and tell everyone else to go and do it.  You won't get up off your ass to do a thing.


I take action as often as I can. Protest as often as possible.

We all should.

I dont have anything to prove to anyone on fark. But you have plenty to prove to yourself and your neighbors. We all do.

Solidarity and praxis. Only you can know if you're doing your part.
 
2020-12-04 6:53:53 PM  
4 votes:

eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!


No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?
 
2020-12-04 6:51:47 PM  
4 votes:

Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.


Sure thing, Hitler!
 
2020-12-04 6:47:39 PM  
4 votes:

over_educated: She thought she would be in a stronger negotiating position after the election, and that was not a crazy thought considering the polls were so bad even Republicans were shocked they did so well down ballot.  But now McConnell is in the drivers seat, so if the Dems don;t win Georgia he will happily stand asid, watch the country burn and blame it all on Pelosi and Biden.


All with the gleeful assistance of "progressives", as amply demonstrated by this very thread
 
2020-12-04 6:24:26 PM  
4 votes:
Thanks, Bernie.
 
vpb [recently expired TotalFark]
2020-12-04 6:03:04 PM  
4 votes:

lolmao500: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

And by nothing you mean all the GOP-connected grifters who stole billions in taxpayers money?


Them and the ordinary people who are unemployed.
 
2020-12-05 4:03:31 PM  
3 votes:

Bill the unknowing: I've often wondered where I can cash my fantasy check. Sorry that Republicans are dicks but I'd rather eat 100 percent of the food I can buy with 900B than IMAGINE eating 0 percent of the food I will never buy with 2.2T I can't get.


You seem to believe $900B is headed into the hands of hungry families.  HO HO HO HO
 
2020-12-05 4:00:54 PM  
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: leeksfromchichis: Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.

What?

Yes: it gives the Republicans something they want. But there are also things in there the Democrats want.


All "some things" are not equal.  I shouldn't even have to type that, it's so obvious.

Unfortunately entrenched Dem Party geezerballs leadership seems to have you believing that is so.
 
2020-12-05 2:05:48 PM  
3 votes:

lordjupiter: mongbiohazard: austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.

I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.

Berners:  Joe Biden is an idiot for saying he's willing to work with Republicans!  They only care about Republicans, and their voters are idiots!  They will never listen to anyone!!!  Dems are pathetic!!!!

Also Berners: Why aren't the Dems pressuring Republicans more??  If Republicans don't move off their positions it's entirely the Democrats' fault for not finding a way to get them to change!!!  Make the Republicans listen!!! Dems are pathetic!!!!


Centrists: Republicans are idiots if they think we will settle for anything less than our original $2.2T bill.

Also centrists: This $0.5T may not be everything we asked for and may grant corporations immunity for not having proper health safeguards, but we can trust that Republicans will give us everything we ask for next month and that conservative Democrats won't fark us in the ass.
 
2020-12-05 11:59:32 AM  
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: misanthropicsob: Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.

So, you admit, you don't want to work with progressives and consider them your enemy.

This is a mainstream Democratic position, so I'm not surprised.

I can work with people without being kind or tolerant of them. I worked with cops for 20 years without being tolerant of any of them.

Hell, you came up with a totally workable M4A plan just last night that sounded eminently reasonable. I don't have to be kind to you to work with you on that.

It's just that you have this strange vocabulary where "being tolerant" equals "being friends" and "not being tolerant" means "being enemies" and that's your issue not mine. You want to live in a binary world, you will have many enemies and very few friends. I do not have that problem.


No, its not that being kind or tolerant means enemies or not. It's that you called progressives "my opponents."

Opponents does mean enemies.
 
2020-12-05 6:18:59 AM  
3 votes:
Gyrfalcon:

Immunity from covid lawsuits against employers who practice unsafe stuff during a pandemic isn't "something the Republicans want"

It's nation ending stuff, potentially. Legalizing genocide in class warfare. And what did the democrats get in return? half of a rent payment in Boise?
 
2020-12-04 10:39:31 PM  
3 votes:

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.


Its amazing how everything in your post is wrong lol.

I'm enjoying a lovely glass of bourbon right now, so I can't be bothered to walk you through how silly your comment is.

There are millions of Marxists in the world you should seek one out and have them help you.

Check out Economic Update with Richard Wolffe.

Its a good place to start, but as I tell my students, you have to want to learn in order to learn.

Id also suggest "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific" by Engels before moving on to Marx's main texts.

Critique of the Gotha Program is useful too.

Lots of resources out there to help you on your journey.

My path was a winding one. I went from a right wing libertarian as a kid in the south and got into freedman, then shifted to a classical liberal in my 20s a neolib because of Obama, which I regret. Shameful years of being on the wrong part of the Dunning Kruger effect. I used to make your very argument.

I found anarchism through proudhon and chomsky, who's work saved my life. I still love the man despite some disagreements about revolutionary strategy. He will always be a hero.

Then I found my way through marx and engels about 8 years ago. There is so much to learn here. So much history to examine.

I hope you give it a try. You might look back on who you were today, 8 years from now and be so glad you started this journey.

I ended up saying way more than I intended. Must he the bourbon.

Good luck, hopefully future comrade!
 
2020-12-04 10:12:11 PM  
3 votes:

lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.


Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.
 
2020-12-04 8:53:16 PM  
3 votes:

Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky


I mean, this how sanctions work, though.  Someone innocent will get hurt.  Sucks if it's you.
 
2020-12-04 8:14:36 PM  
3 votes:

Corvus: Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.

They actually do compromise.


The problem is when Republicans compromise Republicans say "They won" and when Democrats compromise they say "We lost" so it just doesn't feel like it.


e.g:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi​n​g-room/news/174925-boehner-i-got-98-pe​rcent-of-what-i-wanted-in-debt-deal
 
2020-12-04 8:07:24 PM  
3 votes:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.

No, I'm blaming Democrats for having no way of dealing with him. He exists, so unless he's the king they need to find a way to get their shiat passed before the people that don't recognize the actual problem start blaming Democrats.


Uh, yeah. And? Do you have any other inane, obvious comments to make?

"The Democrats have to figure out how to get bills past the Senate". Yeah, man. We farking know. That's the entire farking problem.
 
2020-12-04 8:04:35 PM  
3 votes:
Gyrfalcon:

If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

Here are some things that Biden can do:

https://prospect.org/day-one-agenda

If he wants to.  Looks like an opportunity to earn a hell of a lot of good will.
 
2020-12-04 7:53:03 PM  
3 votes:

qorkfiend: It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?


Sure, just like sometimes you bet before the flop.


It was smart to not compromise before, when breadcrumbs could have saved lives, and it's smart to have compromised for breadcrumbs now that the problem is demonstrably worse and the value of breadcrumbs has dropped significantly?

I'd argue at least one of these had to have been a mistake, but then I'd be accused of blaming Democrats for literally everything, I guess.
 
2020-12-04 7:46:11 PM  
3 votes:
At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!
 
2020-12-04 7:42:03 PM  
3 votes:

quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.


Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.
 
2020-12-04 7:33:04 PM  
3 votes:

dkulprit: Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?



Pretty much it says they are not, highlighted for emphasis

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"


Trump wanted the $1.8T so he could send out TrumpChecks(tm) just before the election

Turtle was saying fark that.

They were not working together

Mitch wouldn't have let Nancy have the $1.8T , sabotaging the deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/us​/​politics/stimulus-deal-mitch-mcconnell​-nancy-pelosi.html
 
2020-12-04 7:30:23 PM  
3 votes:

Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.


One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.
 
2020-12-04 7:25:54 PM  
3 votes:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?

Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.

You haven't already figured this stuff out? I thought you were standing ready.


I am. So are most leftists. But there are so many moving parts to a successful revolutionary act.

If you're actually interested i can point you toward sources which can help you understand the theory of marxism and strategies for revolutionary struggle.
 
2020-12-04 7:25:10 PM  
3 votes:

AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.


This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:56 PM  
3 votes:

LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?


Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.
 
2020-12-04 7:16:56 PM  
3 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


Seriously? You strong men of action are waiting for others to act first?
 
2020-12-04 7:16:44 PM  
3 votes:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass


So you agree? That it isn't enough?
 
2020-12-04 7:12:09 PM  
3 votes:

gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.


And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!
 
2020-12-04 7:10:00 PM  
3 votes:
2020 election results and the shiatstorm that will follow :
Fark user imageView Full Size

/russians were uneducated religious dumbfarks before communism and they got what they asked for, genocide, war and dictatorship
//73 million who voted for trump again are the same kind of dumbfarks who ruined russia and theyll do it again
 
2020-12-04 7:01:37 PM  
3 votes:

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

I don't think it serves the public to compromise and give corporations immunity for doing nothing to protect its employees. But maybe I can change my mind if Pelosi says corporations can have a few more trillion, no strings attached?

/that last part is sarcastic

How much does "zero relief" serve the public?

If people were more engaged they might be so vocally outraged that the immunity gets cut AND the stimulus gets increased anyway. This isn't a "compromise-or-nothing" unless Pelosi wants it to be.


Ah, right. It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention. Or do they? Perhaps you'll recall the election a month ago and the results in the House.

If it's not "compromise-or-nothing", then what is it? I assume you're not stupid enough to believe "everything-or-nothing" is an option on the menu.
 
2020-12-04 6:57:57 PM  
3 votes:
Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.
 
2020-12-04 6:50:00 PM  
3 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: This will be the reality for the next 4 years.

Bourgiois democrats do not care about you. They do not care about working people. They will always capitulate to capital and they will always betray your hopes.

Stop relying on any group that continues to support capitalism. They will betray you for the almighty dollar.

The only solution is a protracted peoples movement to establish state socialism with a longterm planned economic transition into communism.

Destroy classes and the state will wither.

Stop expecting the leaders of an empire to willingly dismantle their systems of wealth and power.

I'm not even mad about it anymore. Its expected. I'm just tired of being right about liberals.

Republicans are evil, democrats are enablers of evil.


Start marching, Mao.
 
2020-12-04 6:48:23 PM  
3 votes:

Vlad_the_Inaner: misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?

Its because you think that Trump and the Turtle are working together, while its more like the Turtle isusing Trump as a useful idiot


Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?

Mnuchin and Pelosi were on a bill that 1.8 trillion.  Pelosi walked away.  I'm sure there are valid reasons for it.... but Mitch had already promised to veto it.  Which means it could have been used as political leverage against mitch.  Or if passed people would've gotten help.

Now we're looking at a bill that is half original amount that doesn't help the people.
 
2020-12-04 6:43:47 PM  
3 votes:

lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.


I've seen some bills saying that the lack of such lawsuits is causing some Republican Senators (not the Turtle, at least not yet) to back away from needing this to be part of the stimulus bill.
 
2020-12-04 6:34:09 PM  
3 votes:

Znuh: You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?


I know what I would kinda like to call him, but I'd probably get treated like Dr Psycho from Harley Quinn animated, instead of like Billy Butcher from The Boys.
 
2020-12-05 9:55:04 PM  
2 votes:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: your response was pretty vague so I'm kind of skeptical.

because the internet is monitored


Then they already know where you're posting from. Saying the region or whether or not you're a citizen wouldn't be an issue.

Yeah I'm calling BS. I don't believe you are a Chinese citizen.

You referred to the ruling party, rather than just the party. Its a single party state so that's a bit of a tell. There are a few other little quirks.

一yī人传虚万人传实
 
2020-12-05 8:21:48 PM  
2 votes:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?

The country is re-decending into one person dictatorship, but overall it is a much more functional version of Russia. The ruling party is doing a better job of not being an outright kleptocracy, reforming what had become almost cultural corruption left over from the last great marxist plan, from the cities outward. The real test is to see if the current head of government steps down or follows Putins example. Like any government, they are things they are doing well, things they could be doing better, and human rights abuses


Sounds like the US lol.

Where in China are you?
You haven't mentioned whether you're a citizen or not. Just curious about your perspective. I'm trying to decide your credibility. You don't owe me anything, but your response was pretty vague so I'm kind of skeptical.
 
2020-12-05 7:56:11 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?


Beijing, Xi'an, Shanghai, and Urumqi with occasional business in Chongqing and Chendu. 

The Chinese cannot wait to open up increasingly large portions of their economy to capitalistic tendencies as it has lifted literally a billion people out of poverty. I should know. My mother-in-law was a child of the Cultural Revolution and left China to find a better life. After spending a decade in Tokyo, followed by another couple decades here before gaining citizenship through investment, she built herself a large real estate consortium for whom I work.

See, while Mao murdered hundreds of thousands of people because they were too "academic" or landlords or whatever else communists decided to pin their displeasure of the week on, tens of millions starved until capitalism found it's way back into the country. Now there are untold trillions to be made and profited from as hundreds of millions of people find their way into the global middle classes.

China is literally the textbook example of how positively transformative capitalism can be to a country that was literally too poor to survive prior to their borders being opened.
 
2020-12-05 6:51:15 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: China is still a marxist nation


No, it is not. Stop talking now.
 
2020-12-05 12:11:13 PM  
2 votes:

mongbiohazard: austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.

I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.


Berners:  Joe Biden is an idiot for saying he's willing to work with Republicans!  They only care about Republicans, and their voters are idiots!  They will never listen to anyone!!!  Dems are pathetic!!!!

Also Berners: Why aren't the Dems pressuring Republicans more??  If Republicans don't move off their positions it's entirely the Democrats' fault for not finding a way to get them to change!!!  Make the Republicans listen!!! Dems are pathetic!!!!
 
2020-12-05 11:34:44 AM  
2 votes:

austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.


I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.
 
2020-12-05 12:37:08 AM  
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.


Nothing you said follows from my comment.
 
2020-12-05 12:21:17 AM  
2 votes:
Internationalism* duh! T_T
 
2020-12-05 12:18:51 AM  
2 votes:

Stibium: Stibium: Conqueror of Bread:

What do you think about Lenin's idea of permanent worker revolution?

Trotsky, not Lenin. Derp.


No worries!  They both addressed the concept a bit.

Cut me some slack on this, because it is Friday and I'm very chill right now.

I'll be honest I've only picked up a few Trotsky works. That is one of them tho and its addressed in other works. He reads like a fark post. Lots of little snide shots lol.

I think its a generally useful concept but not applicable for our position in the imperial core. If you catch my meaning.

I think leftists should generally support any socialist movements abroad. Practice internsfionalism. Like if leftists pooled resources and aided groups outside of their state who were attempting to establish socialism.

It isn't really relevant beyond that material support, because we haven't achieved socialism at home and should focus most of our efforts there.

I think our strategy ought to be preventing the imperialists from destroying socialist systems in the global south, what Trotsky might call "less developed" nations.

This is where my streak of anarcho communism comes in because I feel like self determination is really key here.

I know that was a lot of topics, but those were just some of the ideas that popped into my head.
 
2020-12-04 11:47:07 PM  
2 votes:

Stibium: Conqueror of Bread:

What do you think about Lenin's idea of permanent worker revolution?


Trotsky, not Lenin. Derp.
 
2020-12-04 11:05:47 PM  
2 votes:

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.


Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those who came before. Just as economists and philosophers do today.

So its odd you frame your response as if it is either Marx or Smith.

And we really don't have socialism. Socialism requires worker ownership, public ownership and/or state ownership of the means of production AND a mode of production that is designed to meet needs and provide services.

What we have are some bourgiois concessioms won through socialist-influenced labor and social movments.

"Programs" are welfare policy, which is an improvement over private ownership, but not socialism, which requires a shift in the economic base and collective ownership of the means of production.

I'm such a teacher by habit. Can't help but facilitate the lernin.
 
2020-12-04 10:55:29 PM  
2 votes:

Vlad_the_Inaner: leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.

That just leave me wanting know know where male anglerfish that clamps on to the female and and even merges into the female's bloodstream in a permanent parasitic relationship  fits into this metaphor.


I dunno. Ted Cruz?
 
2020-12-04 10:44:58 PM  
2 votes:

Beast_Ice: Conqueror of Bread: Otherwise, why not craft a bill which would show how much they want to do for the working class?

They did pass a bunch of stuff like that, all of which never saw the light of day in the Senate. They may not have included as much as you or even I would have wanted, but there was good stuff that helped the working class people in the working class/Bourgeois dichotomy you seem to be operating in.

Also somewhere in this thread you promoting the coopting of back lives matter protests for general "Leftest" policy goals. That sh•ts not ok.


Not coopting. People of color ought to be in the revolutionary vanguard. Indigenous people too. Most of the drivers of policy of any revolutionary movement need to be of the disenfranchised groups. This prevents any ethno centrist policies in a collectivist organization.

Check out the concept of vanguardism. I would hope leaders who organize through BLM would be heavily involved in the democratic structures of a collective worker movment. Otherwise it wouldn't really be a movement worth supporting.
 
2020-12-04 10:13:50 PM  
2 votes:

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC


;)

Come join us on the right side of history.
 
2020-12-04 9:45:21 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Jiggatron69: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."

Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.

He took a long time to basically say "I got mine so frak you". What an unsatisfying conclusion.  Almost as bad as Season 8 of GoT

Yeah, he's clearly just a conservative reactionary. But the very fact that he is claims to be a vocal Democrat should give many in this thread pause.

This is the class the democratic leadership rhetorically ponders to, while serving the interests of the largest international corporations.

But he's got a house in the 'burbs so fark the poors.


Conceding the suburbs to the GOP is an odd strategy.
 
2020-12-04 9:23:26 PM  
2 votes:

Znuh: You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?


If you tally up the most harmful and longest-lasting government actions of the last four years, you will realize that while Donald Trump was playing at being president, the real president of the United States was Mitch McConnell.
 
2020-12-04 9:11:08 PM  
2 votes:

austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.


Oh, yeah. I'm sure you're totally out there "looking for it".
 
2020-12-04 8:37:56 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out

No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better.

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

Not sure where your purity rhetoric is coming from, or how you come to the conclusion that I'm asking for more for myself. I've had my struggles during the last year, but I am not in need, not in the way people who have lost their jobs or homes or loved ones are.

I don't accept that criticizing Democratic leadership is "trying to fark it up for everyone else."

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child

Insisting that the Democrats should have walked away from actual relief in the mistaken belief this would somehow force the GOP to capitulate is, in fact, desiring to "fark it up for other people".


But Democrats walking away from actual relief for months in the mistaken belief that we'd walk away with three branches of government was a good bet.

My position is something is, and would have been, better than nothing.

My desire is for people in need to get the help they are owed.
 
2020-12-04 8:33:15 PM  
2 votes:
Republicans are of a single mind and share most of the same goals and desires. This is why they're so much stronger than Democrats. Democrats are a herd of cats, many opposed ideologies and "My way is better" along with a desire to avoid conflict at all costs. You will never get Democrats to agree on anything, they will remain divided and weak until the right has fully extinguished them.
 
2020-12-04 8:22:58 PM  
2 votes:

gameshowhost: Nothing HOHOHO funnier than a right-leaning Moderate™ trying to imply that progressives are the ones who have or will ever shiat on black voters.

Decades of your group's policies not just failing black voters, but sending them backwards in many ways.

/war on drugs supporting mofos have happily decimated the nation's young black males
//but the gop is worse so it's okay that you've been pointedly awful human beings


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent​_​Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

That moment when you realize it was introduced by a Democrat, passed overwhelmingly in the House, passed 96-4 in the Senate and signed by a Democratic President ...

scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.netView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 8:10:20 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.


It's you who's having trouble following the thread, my friend. I know perfectly well your threats are directed at Senate Republicans and not me personally. I also know perfectly well physical threats will not work against them.
 
2020-12-04 8:06:06 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out


No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better. You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child
 
2020-12-04 8:05:03 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: qorkfiend: It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?


Sure, just like sometimes you bet before the flop.

It was smart to not compromise before, when breadcrumbs could have saved lives, and it's smart to have compromised for breadcrumbs now that the problem is demonstrably worse and the value of breadcrumbs has dropped significantly?

I'd argue at least one of these had to have been a mistake, but then I'd be accused of blaming Democrats for literally everything, I guess.


Two months ago you don't know what the value of the breadcrumbs is going to do.

They're not mutually exclusive propositions. The hope was that the election would get McConnell out of power so that you don't have to compromise with him. It didn't, so you do.

You're arguing with the benefit of hindsight. It's easy to say "you should have gone all in" after you've seen what the cards look like.

In any case, let's not pretend the House didn't pass a number of their own COVID relief bills that died in the Senate, eh? The Democrats made plenty of offers pre-election.
 
2020-12-04 8:01:50 PM  
2 votes:
FARK: Where hating the Democratic party all the time somehow makes you "Democrat" and supporting them makes you a "Republican". 🤣
 
2020-12-04 8:01:17 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Physical threats will not work.


A large enough mob can be very persuasive.

Every revolution begins as a large mob.

Threats of force, not necessarily violence but yes also violence if necessary, can produce tremendous change.

Organization and militancy are the most powerful weapons that the working class have.
 
2020-12-04 7:58:56 PM  
2 votes:

ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.


You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out now is not the time to pat yourself on the back and say you did a good job. You aren't saying the job is done, you're acting like it.

Why the fark are you all having such a tantrum at people demanding more if you actually agree with us?
 
2020-12-04 7:52:27 PM  
2 votes:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?


If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

I'm not sure why people heap so much blame on Pelosi, or anyone else, really, when the buck stops right on McConnell's desk. And I'm not sure why people are heaping blame on "the Democrats" for failing to unseat Yertle, when Amy McGrath was vigorously campaigning against him for over a year. She was neck and neck with him until a week before the election, and isn't that strange.

There is one person, and ONLY one, who is responsible for the bullshiat in Congress, and somehow he keeps skating away from scrutiny.
 
2020-12-04 7:50:17 PM  
2 votes:
This thread didn't stand a chance.
 
2020-12-04 7:46:08 PM  
2 votes:

LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.


And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"
 
2020-12-04 7:45:39 PM  
2 votes:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?


They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.
 
2020-12-04 7:36:06 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.


I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.
 
2020-12-04 7:28:31 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanton murder does not make a movement.


Then what the fark does this even mean?

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall."

You can't threaten murder and then backtrack and say it's not a movement. God damn, you are a yappy, impotent dog, aren't you? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt of actually being a revolutionary, but now I see you're no Che Guevara, you're Justa Complaina.
 
2020-12-04 7:27:38 PM  
2 votes:

Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?


Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.
 
2020-12-04 7:26:22 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?


Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?
 
2020-12-04 7:25:27 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.


She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?
 
2020-12-04 7:21:55 PM  
2 votes:

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?

Obviously

Good. Start saying that more instead of trying to give people cover for underperforming.


I'm not giving them "cover". I'm pointing out there's a huge turtle-shaped roadblock named Mitch McConnell in the way and that to a great degree he personally controls whether something gets done or not. (We also call these kind of factual, verifiable observations "reality". And no, I don't want to hear about how you think "should" be.)
 
2020-12-04 7:10:17 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."


media2.giphy.comView Full Size


The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.
 
2020-12-04 7:09:07 PM  
2 votes:

Bennie Crabtree: Well, PBS Newshour is being obnoxious today. Their interviewers keep saying that the deficit is "now reaching uprecendented levels" and "unheard of levels" instead of saying that the deficit reached those levels months ago under president Trump. They're basically setting it up as a problem that is suddenly upon the USA and they've limited it to conversations about Biden. The Dems are already being painted into a spending corner.


They're funded by the Koch brothers.  What do you expect?
 
2020-12-04 7:04:10 PM  
2 votes:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."


Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.
 
2020-12-04 6:58:41 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: Stibium: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

I don't think it serves the public to compromise and give corporations immunity for doing nothing to protect its employees. But maybe I can change my mind if Pelosi says corporations can have a few more trillion, no strings attached?

/that last part is sarcastic

How much does "zero relief" serve the public?


If people were more engaged they might be so vocally outraged that the immunity gets cut AND the stimulus gets increased anyway. This isn't a "compromise-or-nothing" unless Pelosi wants it to be.
 
2020-12-04 6:54:29 PM  
2 votes:

qorkfiend: I like how everyone in this thread pretends like the options were this bill or something better and the Democrats went with this one because reasons, instead of acknowledging the reality that the options were this bill or nothing because two of three levers are under GOP control at the moment.


Hey, now.  Everything everywhere is the Democrats' fault. Duuuuuh.

Just like, on January 21st, every American death from Covid (285,389 SO FAR) will be Biden's fault.

Quite a handy trick the t(R)aitors have, if ya' want to be honest.
 
2020-12-04 6:53:51 PM  
2 votes:

lordjupiter: I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most.

I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25.


Which deal is worth more to you?


Which will pass the senate? Which will the shiatgibbon sign? Sometimes nothing is better than something shiatty.
 
2020-12-04 6:53:21 PM  
2 votes:

Thrag: Are we just making up bullshiat in the headlines to create infighting threads now? I mean the linked tweet says nothing but that Pelosi is pushing again for a stimulus, not that she's capitulating to republican demands. There's also the fact Pelosi and the house already passed a bill in March. It's in the Senate's hands now. Not hers.


That bill is dead on arrival in Senate.  This is a new one....

https://fortune.com/2020/12/01/second​-​stimulus-update-senate-covid-checks-en​hanced-unemployment-benefits/

And Pelosi is backing it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/02/congr​e​ssional-leaders-.html
 
2020-12-04 6:47:10 PM  
2 votes:

Nadie_AZ: lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.

Perhaps it is the start of the roll back of OSHA.


Those are job killing regulations.
 
2020-12-04 6:44:32 PM  
2 votes:

dkulprit: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

Oh, we understand compromise.  We have millions of people who are unemployed and living under the poverty line, the GOP just put us 10 trillion into debt to give tax breaks to the wealthy, so we're supposed to take about 150$ per person in the country while those rich who already just got breaks and money from government?

Compromise is:

"We want 2,000$/person"

"No, 1,000$ only. "

"Ok, meet in middle 1,500$"

Not:

"We want 2,000 for each and every person."

"Nope, were going to give 1 trillion to businesses, make them immune from liability and the people get 150$."

"Ok.  That works."

That's not a compromise.  That's getting walked over.


Because you assume that's how it went. It was really more like this:

"We want $2000 for each person."
"No."
"$1500 for each person."
"No."
"What do you want?"'
"We don't want anything. You make offers, and we'll tell you which one we'll accept."
"$1500 and a tax break?"
"No."

The GOP has nothing to gain or lose by negotiating at this point. They know ANYTHING will come back on the Dems. So Pelosi has to give them something they will pass and that will get signed, if she wants to get money to Americans before St. Swizzums Day.
 
2020-12-04 6:28:20 PM  
2 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-06 12:06:28 AM  
1 vote:

Vlad_the_Inaner: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

Because jumping off of roofs in attempted suicide is what one who owns the means of production does


Thats what happens when you let liberal "reform" happen.

As I said, I disagree with the Deng shift.
 
2020-12-05 11:06:59 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Its a single party state


You are very ignorant. No, China is not. It is actually a multiple party system. Only one party is actually in charge. Also, knowing where I am, is different from posting critically of the govt. Also, you know, should know, VPNs.
 
2020-12-05 10:57:23 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.


Because jumping off of roofs in attempted suicide is what one who owns the means of production does
 
2020-12-05 8:19:43 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: Wanderlusting: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years?

Yes, the same with Vietnam. He is crediting Marxism with the improvements capitalism created


The benefits of the capital distribution in Vietnam are due to the socialist organization of its markets and collective ownership of a number of industries.

Its still a part of the global economy and as such trades in goods produced outside of that system. This is expected in any socialist system existing prior to a global socialist revolution.

You're acting as if importing products it would be inefficient to produce doesn't adhere to basic market mechanics. Of course you import goods.

Of course they have stores that are part of the international market system. That's expected if you have to act pragmatically, as Vietnam had need to be.

The benefits of their collectivist system have spread the distribution of capital in a far better way than liberal economics. And this after having to rebuild from a brutal war.

There are plenty of resources on this concept if you want to learn more.
 
2020-12-05 8:07:32 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years?


Yes, the same with Vietnam. He is crediting Marxism with the improvements capitalism created
 
2020-12-05 7:56:44 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外


You did see above where I said it is exactly the working class of China who should have a voice on their system right?

Ita just curious that you're so indignant when I deferr to your perspective.

Are you a Chinese citizen? I'm genuinely interested in your views if so.
 
2020-12-05 7:49:42 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外


Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?
 
2020-12-05 7:40:56 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外


Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years? Yeah, I'm going to say he's never set foot inside the country. 

WeChatPay and AliPay have basically allowed anyone and everyone to be their own sole proprietors.
 
2020-12-05 7:14:24 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.


I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外
 
2020-12-05 7:10:38 PM  
1 vote:
Roof* duh lol. Big thumbs.
 
2020-12-05 7:09:13 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: China is still a marxist nation

No, it is not. Stop talking now.


Da Commissar! Demanding those you disagree with be silent! How liberty loving!

https://amp.scmp.com/economy/china-ec​o​nomy/article/3097561/chinese-president​-xi-jinping-says-marxist-political-eco​nomy

Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

Much like the issue with stalin, I deferr to the Chinese working class where it comes to the organization of their state.

But China is by its philosophical positioning, Marxist. I have my criticisms of their system, but I focus on fixing my own rood before I complain they my neighbor's is leaky.
 
2020-12-05 6:14:42 PM  
1 vote:
lordjupiter:

Its hard to tell the age of an American poster on the internet. Its also largely irrelevant. I've met plenty of 20 somethings who have a solid grasp of the world and history and are worth listening to. So I try not to judge on peoples age. I also teach some pretty bright kids who will be far better educated than I was at their age.

On to your assertions.

Cuba is a lovely country. Wonderful education less abject poverty and their literacy rate is higher per capita. Also a fairly classically marxist nation. They still practice internsfionalism and send doctors all over the world. More than the US by a per capita basis.

All while the imperial overlord sat right outside of their gates. Pretty inspiring if you're aware of the historical circumstances.

Vietnam has recovered powerfully from the liberal imperial wars inflicted on it. It even defeated China after the liberal "reformers" took over after mao. I have some critique of their system, but they are socialist and marxist if a bit eclectic, and its really not my place to tell other nations and peoples how to organize. That's really something only working class people of the nation should do.

China is still a marxist nation, though they have allowed liberalism to infiltrate their system too much in my opinion. I understand the theory of development the party is using and I wouldn't impose a western system on them. That would be chauvinistic, which is something the bourgiois parties engage in. Still, Deng was a poor successor of mao and I wish there had been another person like mao instead.

So that's a few marxist countries. The ones who survived the genocidal psychopaths of imperial liberalism.

Jakarta would have been amazing had we not murdered hundreds of thousands to prevent their socialist movment.

Chile too.

South America will likely become the best example of marxist and socialist successes as several of those nations have been resilient against US murder campaigns.

Its actually a pretty big testament Marxist and socialist organization that these countries have stood against the one industrialized nation to emerge unscathed from WWII.
 
2020-12-05 5:46:43 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: Conqueror of Bread: Stibium: Stibium: Conqueror of Bread:

What do you think about Lenin's idea of permanent worker revolution?

Trotsky, not Lenin. Derp.

No worries!  They both addressed the concept a bit.

Cut me some slack on this, because it is Friday and I'm very chill right now.

I'll be honest I've only picked up a few Trotsky works. That is one of them tho and its addressed in other works. He reads like a fark post. Lots of little snide shots lol.

I think its a generally useful concept but not applicable for our position in the imperial core. If you catch my meaning.

I think leftists should generally support any socialist movements abroad. Practice internsfionalism. Like if leftists pooled resources and aided groups outside of their state who were attempting to establish socialism.

It isn't really relevant beyond that material support, because we haven't achieved socialism at home and should focus most of our efforts there.

I think our strategy ought to be preventing the imperialists from destroying socialist systems in the global south, what Trotsky might call "less developed" nations.

This is where my streak of anarcho communism comes in because I feel like self determination is really key here.

I know that was a lot of topics, but those were just some of the ideas that popped into my head.

Just curious, really, I don't get many opportunities to discuss it. It seems to me to be the most effective way to ensure that too few people don't control too much power, where a party can free itself from democratic processes and take control of the entire machine, al a Stalin.

Doesn't really help us right now get to where we need to be, but I think it's an important concept to keep in mind, especially as the means of production continues to become so cheap with the proliferation of 3D printing and open-source solutions that even a person on minimum wage can afford to partake.


I think that's a really good point and I kind of fall in with Luxemburg on this. She has a special place in my heart.

Probably one of the more difficult things to navigate is local autonomy vs. Collective benefit. How much centralization and how to organize democratically.

I think non-labor unions like renters unions and similar structures could help organize political struggles with the rise of automation and more efficient production. Hard to make a labor movement with when no one has available work to labor at. So you need non employment and "trade" based organizations to organize behind. Mutual aid groups would be good for that. Community support groups etc. I always focus on the micro before the macro.

Those could help create a "mass line" equivalent at home and after a semblance of working class state socialism can be established in the imperial core. It might help if those organizations also had international aspects.

I dont think socialism in one country is always pheasible, so you kind of need the idea of permanent revolution. But you also need the larger states where socialist reorganization is occurring to produce a sort of model of the mass line or soviet style systems.

Really we just need to experiment with different democratic structures in a post revolutionary period when capitalism has been abolished.

As you can see with a lot of posters here and with liberalism in general (is. The neolib end of history rhetoric) dogmatic belief in any one theory or structure is probably doomed to fail.

So we should probably explore theories of organization which are best suited to a given set of circumstances. Like the size of a state or the ethnographic makeup of a region. Availability of resources and population density. But that has to follow the dismantling of imperialism and capitalist exploitation in the industrial and imperial centers.

Making sure peoples basic needs are met and their labor isn't exploited so they are free to organize and administer their social networks.

So if I would probably deferr on the issue to people who have done more theory work. It's definitely something to think about while we work.
 
2020-12-05 5:15:35 PM  
1 vote:

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.

Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those who came before. Just as economist ...

I think you assume everyone is as in the dark about the world as you were.

How about this.  Since you've been wrong several times before, and you were CONVINCED you were right then, maybe you're wrong again.


I'm not convinced I'm right. I'm convinced I'm more correct than I was yesterday. Which is the point of self critique.
If you exercise the practice it will help you grow and be better.

Start with Engels.
 
2020-12-05 8:50:46 AM  
1 vote:
I've often wondered where I can cash my fantasy check. Sorry that Republicans are dicks but I'd rather eat 100 percent of the food I can buy with 900B than IMAGINE eating 0 percent of the food I will never buy with 2.2T I can't get.
 
2020-12-05 8:05:48 AM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.

Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those who came before. Just as economist ...


I think you assume everyone is as in the dark about the world as you were.

How about this.  Since you've been wrong several times before, and you were CONVINCED you were right then, maybe you're wrong again.
 
2020-12-05 8:04:30 AM  
1 vote:

tekmo: lordjupiter: I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most. I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25. Which deal is worth more to you?

Dunno. When my crooked boss breaches the contract, am I going to have to hire a lawyer and lose my job to recover the promised $25?

Trickle down doesn't work, goddammit.


And of course that was not even the point.  JFC the boss is just a position of authority.  Assume you have to take either deal.  Sub in another term if you need that to figure it out.
 
2020-12-05 4:45:11 AM  
1 vote:

leeksfromchichis: Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.


What?

Yes: it gives the Republicans something they want. But there are also things in there the Democrats want.

Look, I'm sorry, for both of you, seriously. But I just can't make "we didn't get everything we wanted" sound like "we didn't get ANYTHING we wanted" no matter how hard I try. I have learned over the decades that getting SOME of what you want is a good thing, even if your opponent also gets something.

But then again, I understand realpolitik. I sense both you and the Republicants do not.
 
2020-12-05 3:06:51 AM  
1 vote:

Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky


How about Fark the people in Ky (and Fl for that matter and their superspreader derp state). If you tell me what you do I'd be happy to help you look for a job outside of Ky and put you in contact with the numerous recruiters I know to help you get out of the state.
 
2020-12-05 2:22:26 AM  
1 vote:

austerity101: I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place


Because in the United States, one party is evil, and the other party is stupid.
 
2020-12-05 12:42:52 AM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Stibium: Stibium: Conqueror of Bread:

What do you think about Lenin's idea of permanent worker revolution?

Trotsky, not Lenin. Derp.

No worries!  They both addressed the concept a bit.

Cut me some slack on this, because it is Friday and I'm very chill right now.

I'll be honest I've only picked up a few Trotsky works. That is one of them tho and its addressed in other works. He reads like a fark post. Lots of little snide shots lol.

I think its a generally useful concept but not applicable for our position in the imperial core. If you catch my meaning.

I think leftists should generally support any socialist movements abroad. Practice internsfionalism. Like if leftists pooled resources and aided groups outside of their state who were attempting to establish socialism.

It isn't really relevant beyond that material support, because we haven't achieved socialism at home and should focus most of our efforts there.

I think our strategy ought to be preventing the imperialists from destroying socialist systems in the global south, what Trotsky might call "less developed" nations.

This is where my streak of anarcho communism comes in because I feel like self determination is really key here.

I know that was a lot of topics, but those were just some of the ideas that popped into my head.


Just curious, really, I don't get many opportunities to discuss it. It seems to me to be the most effective way to ensure that too few people don't control too much power, where a party can free itself from democratic processes and take control of the entire machine, al a Stalin.

Doesn't really help us right now get to where we need to be, but I think it's an important concept to keep in mind, especially as the means of production continues to become so cheap with the proliferation of 3D printing and open-source solutions that even a person on minimum wage can afford to partake.
 
2020-12-04 11:46:21 PM  
1 vote:
Conqueror of Bread:

What do you think about Lenin's idea of permanent worker revolution?
 
2020-12-04 11:11:54 PM  
1 vote:

misanthropicsob: Cornelius Dribble: Znuh: You can biatch about Pelosi all you want; everything we're experiencing is entirely on McConnell's shoulders. How many drafts of this have we had? All refused by Dicknose McRusskie?

If you tally up the most harmful and longest-lasting government actions of the last four years, you will realize that while Donald Trump was playing at being president, the real president of the United States was Mitch McConnell.

What is with people trying to rehabilitate Republican presidents? George W Bush wasn't evil; Dick Cheney was the mastermind. Trump wasn't bad; it was Mitch McConnell.

Stop rehabilitating shiat presidents.


I didn't say Trump wasn't bad. I said he was a distraction. And it seemed to work on you.
 
2020-12-04 10:56:51 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend: leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.

Right. So, nothing then?

Nothing is preferable to death and destruction caused directly by corporation security being legally protected with a tiny garnish of nowhere near enough money months late and being expected to eat the DNC's ass out like it was full of ice cream.

But what I actually would like to see is the Democrats not "compromising" with nation destroying pro-corporate stuff and go back to the party of the people they used to be before my lifetime.

Oh, I didn't know you had a plan to jam a Democratic wish list through a Republican majority Senate. Seems strange to keep such a thing a secret, though. What have you been waiting for?


I dunno, Ted Cruz?
 
2020-12-04 10:34:52 PM  
1 vote:

Soup4Bonnie: President-elect Joe Biden on Friday said he's "encouraged" by the $908 billion proposal, framing it as the type of bipartisan work that he hopes to foster as president.


I love that. "As president, I really hope to foster many half measure bills that put corporations ahead of people."
 
2020-12-04 10:12:48 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.



JFC
 
2020-12-04 10:07:17 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.

No, I'm blaming Democrats for having no way of dealing with him. He exists, so unless he's the king they need to find a way to get their shiat passed before the people that don't recognize the actual problem start blaming Democrats.

Uh, yeah. And? Do you have any other inane, obvious comments to make?

"The Democrats have to figure out how to get bills past the Senate". Yeah, man. We farking know. That's the entire farking problem.


Well DO IT ALREADY! MAKE YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE.

I hereby place you in charge of this problem.
 
2020-12-04 9:48:19 PM  
1 vote:

Cagey B: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

A lot of people who can't be bothered to vote in down-ticket races will be along shortly to explain how Pelosi should have used mystical parliamentary procedures to somehow enact a bill without the Senate for reasons.


ALL my votes are down ticket. My vote for POTUS doesn't mean a damn thing, so I leave it blank.
 
2020-12-04 9:47:05 PM  
1 vote:

leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend: leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.

Right. So, nothing then?

Nothing is preferable to death and destruction caused directly by corporation security being legally protected with a tiny garnish of nowhere near enough money months late and being expected to eat the DNC's ass out like it was full of ice cream.

But what I actually would like to see is the Democrats not "compromising" with nation destroying pro-corporate stuff and go back to the party of the people they used to be before my lifetime.


Oh, I didn't know you had a plan to jam a Democratic wish list through a Republican majority Senate. Seems strange to keep such a thing a secret, though. What have you been waiting for?
 
2020-12-04 9:12:34 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: austerity101: Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky

I mean, this how sanctions work, though.  Someone innocent will get hurt.  Sucks if it's you.

Meanwhile people in this very thread seem to believe it's not ok for a single American to go one more second without stimulus.


Yeah, there sure are a lot of "progressives" in here wondering why the Democrats didn't act sooner, and also simultaneously why didn't the Democrats walk away instead of compromising
 
2020-12-04 9:10:36 PM  
1 vote:

leeksfromchichis: qorkfiend:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 500x331]

An anemic one time payment is the glowing bit.

The rest of the anglerfish is corporate immunity from lawsuits.


Right. So, nothing then?
 
2020-12-04 9:10:09 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out

No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better.

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

Not sure where your purity rhetoric is coming from, or how you come to the conclusion that I'm asking for more for myself. I've had my struggles during the last year, but I am not in need, not in the way people who have lost their jobs or homes or loved ones are.

I don't accept that criticizing Democratic leadership is "trying to fark it up for everyone else."

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child

Insisting that the Democrats should have walked away from actual relief in the mistaken belief this would somehow force the GOP to capitulate is, in fact, desiring to "fark it up for other people".

But Democrats walking away from actual relief for months in the mistaken belief that we'd walk away with three branches of government was a good bet.

My position is something is, and would have been, better than nothing.

My desire is for people in need to get the help they are owed.


The only reason you can classify it as "mistaken" is because you are sitting here arguing as if everything you know today, Dec 3, you knew back on Sep 3.
 
2020-12-04 9:00:17 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea:

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

Then we agree and I have totally missed half you posts...Have a lovely weekend.

I get I'm often combative when I participate in threads like these and I appreciate that can often read like I hate Democrats. I want us (not specifically you and me, our party broadly) to be able to have discussions with each other about the best course of action without acting like the sky is falling because we don't always see eye to eye. I feel like we need to be able to talk about both, the positives and the negatives, in order for us to understand the shape of the elephant we're feeling up at different angles.

I want my politics to be seen as driven by love and compassion - if that's not clear from what I say, then I'm not doing a very good job of it. So I'll apologize and wish you a good weekend too.


again we agree. Its all good,
 
2020-12-04 8:42:43 PM  
1 vote:
purpurosea:

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

Then we agree and I have totally missed half you posts...Have a lovely weekend.
 
2020-12-04 8:37:26 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.

It's you who's having trouble following the thread, my friend. I know perfectly well your threats are directed at Senate Republicans and not me personally. I also know perfectly well physical threats will not work against them.

Yeah, I remember when I was 19 and thought Communism could save the world.


I remember when I was 19 and liberal. Then I educated myself over the course of two decades.

So there is hope for some liberals.

Start with "Socialism, Utopian and Scientific". Might change how you view the world.
 
2020-12-04 8:32:27 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.

You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out

No you are not,  you are shiatting on the positive and say it should have never should have been done, instead of saying how it could have been better.

Where have I said we shouldn't have compromised? I said something is better than nothing.

You are not here to help. You are not here to make things better. You are here to seek validation by saying how much purer it should have been. You are here for yourself. Be part of the solution or stop trying to fark it up for everyone else.

Not sure where your purity rhetoric is coming from, or how you come to the conclusion that I'm asking for more for myself. I've had my struggles during the last year, but I am not in need, not in the way people who have lost their jobs or homes or loved ones are.

I don't accept that criticizing Democratic leadership is "trying to fark it up for everyone else."

/ that is why I am "having a tantrum" you adolescent child


Insisting that the Democrats should have walked away from actual relief in the mistaken belief this would somehow force the GOP to capitulate is, in fact, desiring to "fark it up for other people".
 
2020-12-04 8:28:40 PM  
1 vote:

ReaverZ: I Like Bread:

Bullshiat, you don't care about the poor. You don't care about Covid deaths. You want to watch it all fall apart so you can feel superior and how you were right all along. Piss off you wanna be.


The moral superiority force field is at the heart of the progressive shiatposter, similar to the white male "pro-lifer" who only wants to protect the "unborn" and not control women.

Narrator: they are not morally superior, nor do they do any real work next to bring about any real change.
 
2020-12-04 8:25:20 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.

It's you who's having trouble following the thread, my friend. I know perfectly well your threats are directed at Senate Republicans and not me personally. I also know perfectly well physical threats will not work against them.

Just reading through the quotes above tells a different story. But posture if you must. It doesn't really impact my life. Its about your own battle with your ego. So do what makes you happy.

You should still probably take a minute and a few deep breaths.


You don't understand what we're discussing at all, do you? It's ok, you can admit you're lost.
 
2020-12-04 8:18:40 PM  
1 vote:

Kirkenhegelstein: This thread didn't stand a chance.


These never do. The Snack must be busy tonight (surprising, since he rarely misses a built in shiatpost opportunity). The surrogates are seem to be the B team as well.
 
2020-12-04 8:18:10 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.

It's you who's having trouble following the thread, my friend. I know perfectly well your threats are directed at Senate Republicans and not me personally. I also know perfectly well physical threats will not work against them.


Yeah, I remember when I was 19 and thought Communism could save the world.
 
2020-12-04 8:15:58 PM  
1 vote:

I Like Bread: Corvus: So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?

You can also stop pretending to speak for the poor. No one is buying it.


No, you stop pretending you give a fark. You are fraud, spouting off bs one lines trying to get imaginary internet points. Purpurosea at least has something to say and an argument to make. You are just thread shiatting.
 
2020-12-04 8:14:02 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.

It's you who's having trouble following the thread, my friend. I know perfectly well your threats are directed at Senate Republicans and not me personally. I also know perfectly well physical threats will not work against them.


Just reading through the quotes above tells a different story. But posture if you must. It doesn't really impact my life. Its about your own battle with your ego. So do what makes you happy.

You should still probably take a minute and a few deep breaths.
 
2020-12-04 8:11:31 PM  
1 vote:

Nadie_AZ: TomDooley: Is immunity for businesses being half-ass about Covid Protections still in it?  Seems like that has always been the sticking point more then how much was being spent.

As it should be. It should be dead.

Interesting stalemate. The 2 parties can't seem to get anything done. The people are suffering. They have been suffering since April (although, let's be honest: the people have been hurting for decades). What could the leader of the party of the working class do?

She could have harnessed BLM this summer to push through more help for people. They had the neofascist gangster in his bunker at one point. They had real power. She could have led or pushed Biden to lead a mass demand by the working classes.

250 million people struck and protested in India this week. THIS gets shiat done when the leaders won't.

[Fark user image image 800x532]


"Pelosi should have hijacked the BLM movement for leverage on COVID stimulus" you say a month after black people's turnout for the Democrats just saved us from another four years of Trump.

Piss on them and call it "rain" at all of our peril.
 
2020-12-04 8:08:37 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.

And how's that working out for them electorally?

Not nearly as poorly as it should have.

/looking at you, Georgia


Sounds like it's working pretty well for them, then. Strange how that's causing them to continue with that behavior.
 
2020-12-04 8:05:28 PM  
1 vote:

lolmao500: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

If Lincoln had burned the south to the farking ground like they should have been post-civil war, all this would have been avoided.

Mitch would have never been born and all those scumbags making the GOP of today would have never existed.


Never too late.

/just sayin'
 
2020-12-04 8:04:20 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.


Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.
 
2020-12-04 7:58:59 PM  
1 vote:
I think the people in power whose missteps, regardless of intent, result in mass deaths of citizens should be called to account by the law. And potentially a firing squad.

That would include all leadership, I think. Speaker, president and his staff, various agency heads, etc.

If that's a crazy thing that we can never expect to happen, I'm not sure I want this country to succeed any further.

If it's something we can hope for, I hope the McConnell gets a particularly harsh sentence. Something like heavy weights on his ankles pulling him down onto a blade that will slowly slice him in half taint-first. Just spitballing.
 
2020-12-04 7:57:50 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"

And if they don't pass anything and Warnock and Ossoff lose, you'll say "todaso".


Uhh huh. Go ahead and add me to your favorites list so you won't forget.
 
2020-12-04 7:56:32 PM  
1 vote:

qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Is this PAC incapable of action on their own?

Apparently so....

Then I'm not sure why you want them involved


Maybe because they currently are not?
 
2020-12-04 7:56:08 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.


And how's that working out for them electorally?
 
2020-12-04 7:45:26 PM  
1 vote:
No matter what Pelosi and Treason Turtle agree, Trump won't sign it unless there's something in it for him.
 
2020-12-04 7:40:24 PM  
1 vote:

Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?


Is this PAC incapable of action on their own?
 
2020-12-04 7:39:12 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates on this site haven't been calling Pelosi a master tactician for the last few years, I don't know what to tell you.

It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?


Sure, just like sometimes you bet before the flop.

The election was going to deal everyone a new hand anyway and everyone was waiting to see how it shook out. At the present we know how it shook out, and the result was somewhat less than the resounding repudiation of the GOP's approach to COVID than was hoped for.
 
2020-12-04 7:35:55 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.


I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."
 
2020-12-04 7:33:20 PM  
1 vote:

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


Because it's always the democrats' fault.
 
2020-12-04 7:29:10 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: We've got pitchforks and torches.


no, no you, we, they whatever don't.

/ well the GOP supporters do
 
2020-12-04 7:28:09 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.


The person I was replying to has already dialed his so-called 'anger' back quite a few notches.

He talks a good line, but doesn't have the stones to carry it out.
 
2020-12-04 7:26:41 PM  
1 vote:
There were able to remove some thigns now anyway.  They wanted money to help fund the postal service as well as secure the election.  They were also hoping that the Dems would flip the senate.

The firts few things are no longer an issue, as the election is done, and the dems did not get the senate.  So they have to compromise, also Trump is gone, so they can play a little lose with things because they know with trump gone they can hold out a bit if the gop tries to add crap back in trump would of wanted.

It sucks, but its better then nothing at this point.

and shes not wrong.  A vaccine is suppose to be released by the end of the year to the end of jan, that means they will need less funding then what they needed 6-1 month ago.  when no vaccine was in sight
 
2020-12-04 7:20:33 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


Sooooooo, ain't nothing gonna happen.

Noted.
 
2020-12-04 7:15:07 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!


No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass
 
2020-12-04 7:14:35 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.


The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?
 
2020-12-04 7:12:35 PM  
1 vote:

purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.


Uh, ok. Who said it was?
 
2020-12-04 7:03:43 PM  
1 vote:

quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.


If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.
 
2020-12-04 7:01:49 PM  
1 vote:

Conqueror of Bread: This will be the reality for the next 4 years.

Bourgiois democrats do not care about you. They do not care about working people. They will always capitulate to capital and they will always betray your hopes.

Stop relying on any group that continues to support capitalism. They will betray you for the almighty dollar.

The only solution is a protracted peoples movement to establish state socialism with a longterm planned economic transition into communism.

Destroy classes and the state will wither.

Stop expecting the leaders of an empire to willingly dismantle their systems of wealth and power.

I'm not even mad about it anymore. Its expected. I'm just tired of being right about liberals.

Republicans are evil, democrats are enablers of evil.


What's the list of demands, Reg?
 
2020-12-04 6:50:21 PM  
1 vote:
Pelosi eyes combining Covid aid with mammoth spending deal

"There is momentum - there is momentum with the action that the senators and House members in a bipartisan way have taken," Pelosi said Friday, in the latest sign that negotiators are closing in on a deal. "The tone of our conversations is one that is indicative of the decision to get the job done."

President-elect Joe Biden on Friday said he's "encouraged" by the $908 billion proposal, framing it as the type of bipartisan work that he hopes to foster as president. He cautioned that "any package passed in the lame duck session is not going to be enough overall."

But hurdles remain. Government funding runs out in just one week, and there are still a sizable number of issues impeding an agreement on a massive spending package that would increase agency budgets for the rest of the fiscal year.

The sheer number of outstanding items at such a late stage makes it increasingly likely that congressional negotiators will require a brief stopgap spending bill to complete their work before leaving for the holidays. Such a decision could be made early next week if lawmakers fail to make significant progress over the weekend.
 
2020-12-04 6:49:42 PM  
1 vote:

dkulprit: Vlad_the_Inaner: misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?

Its because you think that Trump and the Turtle are working together, while its more like the Turtle isusing Trump as a useful idiot

Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?

Mnuchin and Pelosi were on a bill that 1.8 trillion.  Pelosi walked away.  I'm sure there are valid reasons for it.... but Mitch had already promised to veto it.  Which means it could have been used as political leverage against mitch.  Or if passed people would've gotten help.

Now we're looking at a bill that is half original amount that doesn't help the people.


You don't understand how leverage works, do you?
 
2020-12-04 6:48:06 PM  
1 vote:

misanthropicsob: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

They could have had more if she had called Trump's bluff and supported the $1.8T bill from November.

She is making a series of tactical errors, and should be primaried in 2022. We also need to vote her out of Speaker of the House since her negotiation skills are absolutely shiat.

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"

What the fark kind of compromise and negotiation skills are those?


Wow, we've got a guy here who is posting from the future! So tell us future man, when does the senate actually finally pass a bill? What was the house vote?
 
2020-12-04 6:43:43 PM  
1 vote:

TheOtherGuy: Don't charactarize it as a mistake?  Okay, how about malfeasance?  Dereliction of duty?  Contempt of Congress and the Constitution?  Crimes Against Humanity?  Am I getting warmer, you psychopathic coont?


Mitch still has no bill written or passed in his chamber.

And for that I blame Nancy Pelosi.
 
2020-12-04 6:42:37 PM  
1 vote:

mrwhippy: [Fark user image 417x417]


I wonder if that chinless wonder on the right will ever realize he is the poster child for Ignorance Is Bliss?
 
2020-12-04 6:42:08 PM  
1 vote:

mrwhippy: [Fark user image 417x417]


Pandemic and Corporate influence on our Government.
 
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