Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Twitter)   Pelosi is scientifically settling for a stimulus bill that will scientifically get people food on the table even though it is scientifically worth $1.3T less than what Democrats previously asked for through scientific analysis. Science   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, shot  
•       •       •

1760 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2020 at 6:20 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



348 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2020-12-05 1:54:19 AM  

misanthropicsob: Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.

So, you admit, you don't want to work with progressives and consider them your enemy.

This is a mainstream Democratic position, so I'm not surprised.


I can work with people without being kind or tolerant of them. I worked with cops for 20 years without being tolerant of any of them.

Hell, you came up with a totally workable M4A plan just last night that sounded eminently reasonable. I don't have to be kind to you to work with you on that.

It's just that you have this strange vocabulary where "being tolerant" equals "being friends" and "not being tolerant" means "being enemies" and that's your issue not mine. You want to live in a binary world, you will have many enemies and very few friends. I do not have that problem.
 
2020-12-05 2:05:02 AM  

Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".


Giving Republicans everything they want and forfeiting everything Democrats want is not compromise. Pelosi is offender #1 here.
 
2020-12-05 2:07:44 AM  

austerity101: Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.

Nothing you said follows from my comment.


You told me to stop hurling insults and act like an adult. I don't see how I'm not. We have a couple of self-professed Communists in here, calling for violent revolution; well, let them start the Long March. I don't see that as a hurled insult. And I don't feel compelled to act like an adult in the face of bullshiat; that's not my way.

YMMV of course, and more power to you.
 
2020-12-05 2:13:47 AM  

Vince McMahon in the Wilderness: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

Giving Republicans everything they want and forfeiting everything Democrats want is not compromise. Pelosi is offender #1 here.


And how does the compromise do that, exactly? Please be specific. How does the bill as proposed today give the Republicans "everything they want" and leave the Democrats with nothing they want?
 
2020-12-05 2:19:26 AM  

lordjupiter: I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most. I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25. Which deal is worth more to you?


Dunno. When my crooked boss breaches the contract, am I going to have to hire a lawyer and lose my job to recover the promised $25?

Trickle down doesn't work, goddammit.
 
2020-12-05 2:22:26 AM  

austerity101: I'm still just baffled why Democratic officials aren't on TV and in ads every single day all over the place


Because in the United States, one party is evil, and the other party is stupid.
 
2020-12-05 2:24:18 AM  
Gyrfalcon:

Please be specific. How does the bill as proposed today give the Republicans "everything they want" and leave the Democrats with nothing they want?

You mean aside from it being another massive handout to wall street and it giving businesses immunity from liability for providing an unsafe working environment?
 
2020-12-05 2:31:30 AM  

Murkanen: Gyrfalcon:

Please be specific. How does the bill as proposed today give the Republicans "everything they want" and leave the Democrats with nothing they want?

You mean aside from it being another massive handout to wall street and it giving businesses immunity from liability for providing an unsafe working environment?


Yeah. Besides that. I'm looking at it right now, and I see a lot of things that Democrats wanted, just not as much. I must be missing something. Please show me what I'm not seeing. Also, where is this handout to Wall Street? I'm not seeing that either.
 
2020-12-05 2:44:34 AM  
Gyrfalcon:

Also, where is this handout to Wall Street? I'm not seeing that either.

You see nothing in the stimulus that is earmarked as money for businesses? Not a single penny?
 
2020-12-05 3:06:51 AM  

Abracapocalypse: OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!

LOL I guess "fark u" to all of us who did vote for the dumbass democratic challenger the stupid democratic party put up against Mitch? I voted straight ticket dem, not much else I can do as an unemployed, broke, and soon to be homeless high-risk person. Go fark yourself.

p.s. if someone wnats to give me the money to move somewhere better i'm here for it, until then stfu about people in Kentucky


How about Fark the people in Ky (and Fl for that matter and their superspreader derp state). If you tell me what you do I'd be happy to help you look for a job outside of Ky and put you in contact with the numerous recruiters I know to help you get out of the state.
 
2020-12-05 3:29:18 AM  
Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.
 
2020-12-05 4:38:42 AM  

Murkanen: Gyrfalcon:

Also, where is this handout to Wall Street? I'm not seeing that either.

You see nothing in the stimulus that is earmarked as money for businesses? Not a single penny?


I guess we have different definitions of "Wall Street".  Sorry if I don't share yours.
 
2020-12-05 4:45:11 AM  

leeksfromchichis: Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.


What?

Yes: it gives the Republicans something they want. But there are also things in there the Democrats want.

Look, I'm sorry, for both of you, seriously. But I just can't make "we didn't get everything we wanted" sound like "we didn't get ANYTHING we wanted" no matter how hard I try. I have learned over the decades that getting SOME of what you want is a good thing, even if your opponent also gets something.

But then again, I understand realpolitik. I sense both you and the Republicants do not.
 
2020-12-05 6:18:59 AM  
Gyrfalcon:

Immunity from covid lawsuits against employers who practice unsafe stuff during a pandemic isn't "something the Republicans want"

It's nation ending stuff, potentially. Legalizing genocide in class warfare. And what did the democrats get in return? half of a rent payment in Boise?
 
2020-12-05 8:04:30 AM  

tekmo: lordjupiter: I'm going to give your boss $100, but because he's a crook he's probably going to give you a dollar at most. I'm going to give your boss $50 and he must sign a contract promising to give you at least $25. Which deal is worth more to you?

Dunno. When my crooked boss breaches the contract, am I going to have to hire a lawyer and lose my job to recover the promised $25?

Trickle down doesn't work, goddammit.


And of course that was not even the point.  JFC the boss is just a position of authority.  Assume you have to take either deal.  Sub in another term if you need that to figure it out.
 
2020-12-05 8:05:48 AM  

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.

Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those who came before. Just as economist ...


I think you assume everyone is as in the dark about the world as you were.

How about this.  Since you've been wrong several times before, and you were CONVINCED you were right then, maybe you're wrong again.
 
2020-12-05 8:50:46 AM  
I've often wondered where I can cash my fantasy check. Sorry that Republicans are dicks but I'd rather eat 100 percent of the food I can buy with 900B than IMAGINE eating 0 percent of the food I will never buy with 2.2T I can't get.
 
2020-12-05 9:19:13 AM  

Abracapocalypse: I lost my job immediately (like a week) before the coronavirus cutoff. Haven't received a cent of UI because the company that laid us off used a bunch of technicalities. Got $1200 ths year to live on for the last 9 months. I'm glad for the people this will help but there are a farkton of people in America who do not qualify for UI and get jack shiat from this.

I'm looking at being completely broke and probably out on the street if we don't get some relief. Keep farking around with my life and find out what happens.


Do a few odd side jobs and sign up for the PUA as a "self employed contractor". Just be sure you have a few screenshots of emails or texts between you and a few clients and a few screenshots of cash deposits into your bank account. I was qualified with less than 5 images for my little housekeeper side hustle. Get yourself some of that money. Do not let it slip away.
 
2020-12-05 11:34:44 AM  

austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.


I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.
 
2020-12-05 11:59:32 AM  

Gyrfalcon: misanthropicsob: Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Are you a Republican?  If not, why are you hurling insults like you are one?  Act like an adult.

Why? I'm tired of being told I have to be the kind and tolerant one when my opponents keep acting like whiny babies.

Falcon don't fly that route.

So, you admit, you don't want to work with progressives and consider them your enemy.

This is a mainstream Democratic position, so I'm not surprised.

I can work with people without being kind or tolerant of them. I worked with cops for 20 years without being tolerant of any of them.

Hell, you came up with a totally workable M4A plan just last night that sounded eminently reasonable. I don't have to be kind to you to work with you on that.

It's just that you have this strange vocabulary where "being tolerant" equals "being friends" and "not being tolerant" means "being enemies" and that's your issue not mine. You want to live in a binary world, you will have many enemies and very few friends. I do not have that problem.


No, its not that being kind or tolerant means enemies or not. It's that you called progressives "my opponents."

Opponents does mean enemies.
 
2020-12-05 12:11:13 PM  

mongbiohazard: austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.

I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.


Berners:  Joe Biden is an idiot for saying he's willing to work with Republicans!  They only care about Republicans, and their voters are idiots!  They will never listen to anyone!!!  Dems are pathetic!!!!

Also Berners: Why aren't the Dems pressuring Republicans more??  If Republicans don't move off their positions it's entirely the Democrats' fault for not finding a way to get them to change!!!  Make the Republicans listen!!! Dems are pathetic!!!!
 
2020-12-05 2:05:48 PM  

lordjupiter: mongbiohazard: austerity101: mongbiohazard: T: That's bullshiat! They should be shouting from the rooftops! They could be talking about it to force votes with public pressure!
M: They're literally already doing that too, my feeds have been filled with it for months. No amount of outside pressure will matter, McConnell ONLY concerns himself with GOP voter pressure, never anyone else.
T: That's not enough! They should be on TV! Rallies! They should write articles in newspapers!
M: FFS, they've been doing that for months too... it doesn't matter. The GOP leadership ignores public opinion polls entirely - they ONLY care what their own specific voters want, and really only what the donors want because their gaslit and aggressively defiant voters can be manipulated by the media organs those donors also run.

I keep pretty abreast of politics, but I've yet to see a lot of this.  So if they're doing it, it's not getting out there, because if it's not reaching me and I'm actually looking for it, then it's not reaching most of America.  Which is maybe why it's not working.

I'm seeing tons of it and I haven't been looking.

Maybe you don't want to see it, because it's easier to be mad at Democrats, who might actually try to do something, rather than the people who are actually responsible for it but are an uncaring brick wall of psychopathy.

Berners:  Joe Biden is an idiot for saying he's willing to work with Republicans!  They only care about Republicans, and their voters are idiots!  They will never listen to anyone!!!  Dems are pathetic!!!!

Also Berners: Why aren't the Dems pressuring Republicans more??  If Republicans don't move off their positions it's entirely the Democrats' fault for not finding a way to get them to change!!!  Make the Republicans listen!!! Dems are pathetic!!!!


Centrists: Republicans are idiots if they think we will settle for anything less than our original $2.2T bill.

Also centrists: This $0.5T may not be everything we asked for and may grant corporations immunity for not having proper health safeguards, but we can trust that Republicans will give us everything we ask for next month and that conservative Democrats won't fark us in the ass.
 
2020-12-05 4:00:54 PM  

Gyrfalcon: leeksfromchichis: Gyrfalcon:

Besides that? The fark is wrong with you?  That's like... holy shiat I can't even find an angle to approach that politely.

What?

Yes: it gives the Republicans something they want. But there are also things in there the Democrats want.


All "some things" are not equal.  I shouldn't even have to type that, it's so obvious.

Unfortunately entrenched Dem Party geezerballs leadership seems to have you believing that is so.
 
2020-12-05 4:03:31 PM  

Bill the unknowing: I've often wondered where I can cash my fantasy check. Sorry that Republicans are dicks but I'd rather eat 100 percent of the food I can buy with 900B than IMAGINE eating 0 percent of the food I will never buy with 2.2T I can't get.


You seem to believe $900B is headed into the hands of hungry families.  HO HO HO HO
 
2020-12-05 5:15:35 PM  

lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.

Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those who came before. Just as economist ...

I think you assume everyone is as in the dark about the world as you were.

How about this.  Since you've been wrong several times before, and you were CONVINCED you were right then, maybe you're wrong again.


I'm not convinced I'm right. I'm convinced I'm more correct than I was yesterday. Which is the point of self critique.
If you exercise the practice it will help you grow and be better.

Start with Engels.
 
2020-12-05 5:20:44 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter: Someone just discovered Marx.  Jeez.

Thats good! Marx is a good first step to understanding political economy.

Now they just need some Lenin and Engels to help clarify some of marx's ambiguities and contradictions.

As all good communists know, self criticism is an essential part of dialectics.


JFC

;)

Come join us on the right side of history.


History has proven Marxism to be a failure.  Even Marx had to admit this eventually when he saw that capitalism did not collapse upon itself as he expected.  He didn't anticipate unions or the introduction of regulation.  Adam Smith DID.

We don't need to tear everything down in some fantasy version of bloodless (or even bloody) revolution, we need to fix some key problems with the current system, which is already a blend of regulated capitalism and socialism.  Do that and we're much better off than any massive overhaul that simply invites more corruption both in the chaos of transition and in the aftermath.

Corruption is the problem and EVERY system is vulnerable to it.  Even socialism.  As you may find out one day if you get your way.

The right side of history RIGHT NOW is opposing the GOP's agenda.   After that it's about patching up the holes they've made going back almost 50 years.

Now go ahead and tell me all about the good news of how everything I said is 100% wrong, capitalism is inherently evil, and there is one true Way that's guided by the hands of the worker class.  I'm sure nobody's ever heard it before.

Just a few quick things:

Marx read Adam Smith! We all should! Freedman misinterprets him terribly. I was really into freedman in high school and hadn't read Smith. When I did in college I had a very different take. Remember, Smith lived 100 years before Marx. His text is foundational to market theory.

But Smith was critical of capital accumulation.

Marx just expands on the works of those w ...



Dude, I'm probably older than you and am well educated and read.

Just because you discovered something doesn't mean it's new to everyone else.

"Millions of Marxists"...where?  Every major Marxist country has failed, or has devolved into human rights disaster theater.

There's a good reason our system is a blend. Because pure socialism won't work any more than pure capitalism.

Maybe one day you'll stop preaching and start listening.
 
2020-12-05 5:46:43 PM  

Stibium: Conqueror of Bread: Stibium: Stibium: Conqueror of Bread:

What do you think about Lenin's idea of permanent worker revolution?

Trotsky, not Lenin. Derp.

No worries!  They both addressed the concept a bit.

Cut me some slack on this, because it is Friday and I'm very chill right now.

I'll be honest I've only picked up a few Trotsky works. That is one of them tho and its addressed in other works. He reads like a fark post. Lots of little snide shots lol.

I think its a generally useful concept but not applicable for our position in the imperial core. If you catch my meaning.

I think leftists should generally support any socialist movements abroad. Practice internsfionalism. Like if leftists pooled resources and aided groups outside of their state who were attempting to establish socialism.

It isn't really relevant beyond that material support, because we haven't achieved socialism at home and should focus most of our efforts there.

I think our strategy ought to be preventing the imperialists from destroying socialist systems in the global south, what Trotsky might call "less developed" nations.

This is where my streak of anarcho communism comes in because I feel like self determination is really key here.

I know that was a lot of topics, but those were just some of the ideas that popped into my head.

Just curious, really, I don't get many opportunities to discuss it. It seems to me to be the most effective way to ensure that too few people don't control too much power, where a party can free itself from democratic processes and take control of the entire machine, al a Stalin.

Doesn't really help us right now get to where we need to be, but I think it's an important concept to keep in mind, especially as the means of production continues to become so cheap with the proliferation of 3D printing and open-source solutions that even a person on minimum wage can afford to partake.


I think that's a really good point and I kind of fall in with Luxemburg on this. She has a special place in my heart.

Probably one of the more difficult things to navigate is local autonomy vs. Collective benefit. How much centralization and how to organize democratically.

I think non-labor unions like renters unions and similar structures could help organize political struggles with the rise of automation and more efficient production. Hard to make a labor movement with when no one has available work to labor at. So you need non employment and "trade" based organizations to organize behind. Mutual aid groups would be good for that. Community support groups etc. I always focus on the micro before the macro.

Those could help create a "mass line" equivalent at home and after a semblance of working class state socialism can be established in the imperial core. It might help if those organizations also had international aspects.

I dont think socialism in one country is always pheasible, so you kind of need the idea of permanent revolution. But you also need the larger states where socialist reorganization is occurring to produce a sort of model of the mass line or soviet style systems.

Really we just need to experiment with different democratic structures in a post revolutionary period when capitalism has been abolished.

As you can see with a lot of posters here and with liberalism in general (is. The neolib end of history rhetoric) dogmatic belief in any one theory or structure is probably doomed to fail.

So we should probably explore theories of organization which are best suited to a given set of circumstances. Like the size of a state or the ethnographic makeup of a region. Availability of resources and population density. But that has to follow the dismantling of imperialism and capitalist exploitation in the industrial and imperial centers.

Making sure peoples basic needs are met and their labor isn't exploited so they are free to organize and administer their social networks.

So if I would probably deferr on the issue to people who have done more theory work. It's definitely something to think about while we work.
 
2020-12-05 6:06:49 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: pheasible


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-05 6:14:42 PM  
lordjupiter:

Its hard to tell the age of an American poster on the internet. Its also largely irrelevant. I've met plenty of 20 somethings who have a solid grasp of the world and history and are worth listening to. So I try not to judge on peoples age. I also teach some pretty bright kids who will be far better educated than I was at their age.

On to your assertions.

Cuba is a lovely country. Wonderful education less abject poverty and their literacy rate is higher per capita. Also a fairly classically marxist nation. They still practice internsfionalism and send doctors all over the world. More than the US by a per capita basis.

All while the imperial overlord sat right outside of their gates. Pretty inspiring if you're aware of the historical circumstances.

Vietnam has recovered powerfully from the liberal imperial wars inflicted on it. It even defeated China after the liberal "reformers" took over after mao. I have some critique of their system, but they are socialist and marxist if a bit eclectic, and its really not my place to tell other nations and peoples how to organize. That's really something only working class people of the nation should do.

China is still a marxist nation, though they have allowed liberalism to infiltrate their system too much in my opinion. I understand the theory of development the party is using and I wouldn't impose a western system on them. That would be chauvinistic, which is something the bourgiois parties engage in. Still, Deng was a poor successor of mao and I wish there had been another person like mao instead.

So that's a few marxist countries. The ones who survived the genocidal psychopaths of imperial liberalism.

Jakarta would have been amazing had we not murdered hundreds of thousands to prevent their socialist movment.

Chile too.

South America will likely become the best example of marxist and socialist successes as several of those nations have been resilient against US murder campaigns.

Its actually a pretty big testament Marxist and socialist organization that these countries have stood against the one industrialized nation to emerge unscathed from WWII.
 
2020-12-05 6:15:41 PM  

gameshowhost: Conqueror of Bread: pheasible

[Fark user image image 225x224]


Haha! Oops! Need to prooph my posts.
 
2020-12-05 6:51:15 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: China is still a marxist nation


No, it is not. Stop talking now.
 
2020-12-05 7:09:13 PM  

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: China is still a marxist nation

No, it is not. Stop talking now.


Da Commissar! Demanding those you disagree with be silent! How liberty loving!

https://amp.scmp.com/economy/china-ec​o​nomy/article/3097561/chinese-president​-xi-jinping-says-marxist-political-eco​nomy

Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

Much like the issue with stalin, I deferr to the Chinese working class where it comes to the organization of their state.

But China is by its philosophical positioning, Marxist. I have my criticisms of their system, but I focus on fixing my own rood before I complain they my neighbor's is leaky.
 
2020-12-05 7:10:38 PM  
Roof* duh lol. Big thumbs.
 
2020-12-05 7:14:24 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.


I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外
 
2020-12-05 7:40:56 PM  

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外


Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years? Yeah, I'm going to say he's never set foot inside the country. 

WeChatPay and AliPay have basically allowed anyone and everyone to be their own sole proprietors.
 
2020-12-05 7:49:42 PM  

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外


Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?
 
2020-12-05 7:56:11 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?


Beijing, Xi'an, Shanghai, and Urumqi with occasional business in Chongqing and Chendu. 

The Chinese cannot wait to open up increasingly large portions of their economy to capitalistic tendencies as it has lifted literally a billion people out of poverty. I should know. My mother-in-law was a child of the Cultural Revolution and left China to find a better life. After spending a decade in Tokyo, followed by another couple decades here before gaining citizenship through investment, she built herself a large real estate consortium for whom I work.

See, while Mao murdered hundreds of thousands of people because they were too "academic" or landlords or whatever else communists decided to pin their displeasure of the week on, tens of millions starved until capitalism found it's way back into the country. Now there are untold trillions to be made and profited from as hundreds of millions of people find their way into the global middle classes.

China is literally the textbook example of how positively transformative capitalism can be to a country that was literally too poor to survive prior to their borders being opened.
 
2020-12-05 7:56:44 PM  

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外


You did see above where I said it is exactly the working class of China who should have a voice on their system right?

Ita just curious that you're so indignant when I deferr to your perspective.

Are you a Chinese citizen? I'm genuinely interested in your views if so.
 
2020-12-05 8:07:32 PM  

Wanderlusting: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years?


Yes, the same with Vietnam. He is crediting Marxism with the improvements capitalism created
 
2020-12-05 8:16:50 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?


The country is re-decending into one person dictatorship, but overall it is a much more functional version of Russia. The ruling party is doing a better job of not being an outright kleptocracy, reforming what had become almost cultural corruption left over from the last great marxist plan, from the cities outward. The real test is to see if the current head of government steps down or follows Putins example. Like any government, they are things they are doing well, things they could be doing better, and human rights abuses
 
2020-12-05 8:19:43 PM  

ReaverZ: Wanderlusting: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Did this guy (Conqueror of Bread) just say China is a Marxist country as their wholesale acceptance of capitalism has lifted nearly a billion people out of abject poverty into the world's largest economy in less than 40 years?

Yes, the same with Vietnam. He is crediting Marxism with the improvements capitalism created


The benefits of the capital distribution in Vietnam are due to the socialist organization of its markets and collective ownership of a number of industries.

Its still a part of the global economy and as such trades in goods produced outside of that system. This is expected in any socialist system existing prior to a global socialist revolution.

You're acting as if importing products it would be inefficient to produce doesn't adhere to basic market mechanics. Of course you import goods.

Of course they have stores that are part of the international market system. That's expected if you have to act pragmatically, as Vietnam had need to be.

The benefits of their collectivist system have spread the distribution of capital in a far better way than liberal economics. And this after having to rebuild from a brutal war.

There are plenty of resources on this concept if you want to learn more.
 
2020-12-05 8:21:48 PM  

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

I live in China, I work in China. I am here. You are not. 住嘴老外

Then you're definitely worth listening to. Where in China and what is your take on the direction the government is going?

Also what is your political disposition?

The country is re-decending into one person dictatorship, but overall it is a much more functional version of Russia. The ruling party is doing a better job of not being an outright kleptocracy, reforming what had become almost cultural corruption left over from the last great marxist plan, from the cities outward. The real test is to see if the current head of government steps down or follows Putins example. Like any government, they are things they are doing well, things they could be doing better, and human rights abuses


Sounds like the US lol.

Where in China are you?
You haven't mentioned whether you're a citizen or not. Just curious about your perspective. I'm trying to decide your credibility. You don't owe me anything, but your response was pretty vague so I'm kind of skeptical.
 
2020-12-05 9:15:37 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: your response was pretty vague so I'm kind of skeptical.


because the internet is monitored
 
2020-12-05 9:55:04 PM  

ReaverZ: Conqueror of Bread: your response was pretty vague so I'm kind of skeptical.

because the internet is monitored


Then they already know where you're posting from. Saying the region or whether or not you're a citizen wouldn't be an issue.

Yeah I'm calling BS. I don't believe you are a Chinese citizen.

You referred to the ruling party, rather than just the party. Its a single party state so that's a bit of a tell. There are a few other little quirks.

一yī人传虚万人传实
 
2020-12-05 10:29:11 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: lordjupiter:

Its hard to tell the age of an American poster on the internet. Its also largely irrelevant. I've met plenty of 20 somethings who have a solid grasp of the world and history and are worth listening to. So I try not to judge on peoples age. I also teach some pretty bright kids who will be far better educated than I was at their age.

On to your assertions.

Cuba is a lovely country. Wonderful education less abject poverty and their literacy rate is higher per capita. Also a fairly classically marxist nation. They still practice internsfionalism and send doctors all over the world. More than the US by a per capita basis.

All while the imperial overlord sat right outside of their gates. Pretty inspiring if you're aware of the historical circumstances.

Vietnam has recovered powerfully from the liberal imperial wars inflicted on it. It even defeated China after the liberal "reformers" took over after mao. I have some critique of their system, but they are socialist and marxist if a bit eclectic, and its really not my place to tell other nations and peoples how to organize. That's really something only working class people of the nation should do.

China is still a marxist nation, though they have allowed liberalism to infiltrate their system too much in my opinion. I understand the theory of development the party is using and I wouldn't impose a western system on them. That would be chauvinistic, which is something the bourgiois parties engage in. Still, Deng was a poor successor of mao and I wish there had been another person like mao instead.

So that's a few marxist countries. The ones who survived the genocidal psychopaths of imperial liberalism.

Jakarta would have been amazing had we not murdered hundreds of thousands to prevent their socialist movment.

Chile too.

South America will likely become the best example of marxist and socialist successes as several of those nations have been resilient against US murder campaigns.

Its actually a pretty b ...



These examples don't help your point, and they basically prove mine.  But you're not alone.  Most Marxists have talked themselves into the same cul de sac.

Good luck.
 
2020-12-05 10:57:23 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.


Because jumping off of roofs in attempted suicide is what one who owns the means of production does
 
2020-12-05 11:06:59 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Its a single party state


You are very ignorant. No, China is not. It is actually a multiple party system. Only one party is actually in charge. Also, knowing where I am, is different from posting critically of the govt. Also, you know, should know, VPNs.
 
2020-12-06 12:06:28 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Conqueror of Bread: Whether or not China is marxist is really a debate for Marxists, not liberals or capitalists.

Because jumping off of roofs in attempted suicide is what one who owns the means of production does


Thats what happens when you let liberal "reform" happen.

As I said, I disagree with the Deng shift.
 
Displayed 48 of 348 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.