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(Twitter)   Pelosi is scientifically settling for a stimulus bill that will scientifically get people food on the table even though it is scientifically worth $1.3T less than what Democrats previously asked for through scientific analysis. Science   (twitter.com) divider line
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1760 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2020 at 6:20 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-04 7:31:18 PM  

DarkDawg: There were able to remove some thigns now anyway.  They wanted money to help fund the postal service as well as secure the election.  They were also hoping that the Dems would flip the senate.

The firts few things are no longer an issue, as the election is done, and the dems did not get the senate.  So they have to compromise, also Trump is gone, so they can play a little lose with things because they know with trump gone they can hold out a bit if the gop tries to add crap back in trump would of wanted.

It sucks, but its better then nothing at this point.

and shes not wrong.  A vaccine is suppose to be released by the end of the year to the end of jan, that means they will need less funding then what they needed 6-1 month ago.  when no vaccine was in sight


We needed a full years' worth of relief and protections.  We got, at most, four months of relief, ONE stimulus check, and a patchwork quilt of wildly inconsistent eviction moratoria without any rent or mortgage forgiveness.  We're pretty far behind on funding we need and it would be immoral and criminal to ignore the fact that there's been no assistance from the government since July.  F*cking July.
 
2020-12-04 7:31:32 PM  

qorkfiend: The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?


Tried, as in made a genuine effort? No, no one did that.
As always, the Dems hoisted their milquetoast moderate favorite upon the people as the de facto choice, spent all their energy appealing to conservatives who have never and will never vote for them, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
2020-12-04 7:32:36 PM  

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanton murder does not make a movement.

Then what the fark does this even mean?

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall."

You can't threaten murder and then backtrack and say it's not a movement. God damn, you are a yappy, impotent dog, aren't you? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt of actually being a revolutionary, but now I see you're no Che Guevara, you're Justa Complaina.


That is what we should be saying to McConnell.

If bourgioisie feared the working class rather than disdained us, we might be able to force a level of capitulation in the short term.

So long as moderates attack leftists, the gop will continue to exploit us all.
 
2020-12-04 7:33:04 PM  

dkulprit: Nothing in that says Trump and mitch were working together?



Pretty much it says they are not, highlighted for emphasis

Nancy: "Here's a bill worth $2.2T."
Trump: "How about $1.8T?"
Nancy: "That isn't enough."
Turtle: "How about $900b and you can't sue businesses for not taking safety precautions."
Nancy: "We'll take it!"


Trump wanted the $1.8T so he could send out TrumpChecks(tm) just before the election

Turtle was saying fark that.

They were not working together

Mitch wouldn't have let Nancy have the $1.8T , sabotaging the deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/us​/​politics/stimulus-deal-mitch-mcconnell​-nancy-pelosi.html
 
2020-12-04 7:33:20 PM  

vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.


Because it's always the democrats' fault.
 
2020-12-04 7:35:14 PM  
I know the cyan Farkers won't like this (because they hate Pelosi), but she is right.

You always don't get what you want, and sometimes you have to push for something that doesn't work first to get to the point of getting something.
 
2020-12-04 7:35:55 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.


I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."
 
2020-12-04 7:36:06 PM  

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.


I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.
 
2020-12-04 7:36:58 PM  

gadian: leeksfromchichis: gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.

Its what you could get and, literally, all you could get because one side of the negotiators (Repubs) have nothing to lose or gain by saving anyone's life.  If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.  You genuinely can't have it both ways.


Imagine you've been captured by Roman soldiers in a bad sack and a whole tent of 'em have decided have their way with you violently. In bursts a centurian who convinces them to leave you half a dinar when they're done. The soldiers are the gop, the centurian is pelosi. Is that dinar the fruits of good negotiation?
 
2020-12-04 7:38:37 PM  

ReaverZ: bluejeansonfire: Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.

run for office then


If you're not currently running for office then I guess it's logical to assume you are perfectly satisfied with everything happening in the nation right now.
 
2020-12-04 7:38:46 PM  

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.

One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.

I'm in favor of the status quo because I benefit handsomely from it. I like my nice, comfy home in the suburbs. I like my job where I get health insurance, a generous salary, and plenty of vacation time. I like the fact that my US Passport (pre-Covid) allowed me to travel most places on Earth with simply a landing visa. I like the fact that I went to college on an academic scholarship that I earned by working my ass off for it. I like that I have a couple of cars, a couple of kids, and that I am working for their future. But, as anyone with kids will tell you, my progeny comes first and my family comes first. If your policies endanger my family, I'm not going to support them. 

Many on the left would vilify me for living the American dream and earning what is rightfully mine, and thus, I don't feel that a "revolution" is necessary. Others would strongly disagree. I'm simply saying if you're going to threaten pitchforks and torches and "eating the rich," I'd suggest you start acting on these proclamations lest you be seen as weak in the face of your "oppressors."


Oh nvm. I thought I was talking to a working class person.

You're bourgioisie. Not worth wasting time on.
 
2020-12-04 7:38:51 PM  

qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So you're committed to fighting for something substantial? Good to hear. It just reads like you're more concerned with stifling criticism than addressing real problems.

No, that's just what your biases are reading into my comments. Those are your problem, not mine.


Apparently, to certain posters here on Fark, anything that is not 100% cheerleading  and support of their position is "shutting down the discussion." And apparently any compromise means the process has now stopped dead and will never go forward in any form again.

So if you're not saying "this is the worst thing EVAR!!!" you might as well be licking McConnell's taint.
 
2020-12-04 7:39:12 PM  

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates on this site haven't been calling Pelosi a master tactician for the last few years, I don't know what to tell you.

It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?


Sure, just like sometimes you bet before the flop.

The election was going to deal everyone a new hand anyway and everyone was waiting to see how it shook out. At the present we know how it shook out, and the result was somewhat less than the resounding repudiation of the GOP's approach to COVID than was hoped for.
 
2020-12-04 7:39:16 PM  

Corvus: I know the cyan Farkers won't like this (because they hate Pelosi), but she is right.

You always don't get what you want, and sometimes you have to push for something that doesn't work first to get to the point of getting something.


And I scrolled up. All the cyan "Democrats" were once again attacking Democrats for what McConnell did!
 
2020-12-04 7:40:24 PM  

Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?


Is this PAC incapable of action on their own?
 
2020-12-04 7:42:03 PM  

quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.


Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.
 
2020-12-04 7:44:42 PM  

qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Is this PAC incapable of action on their own?


Apparently so....
 
2020-12-04 7:44:46 PM  

I Like Bread: ReaverZ: bluejeansonfire: Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.

run for office then

If you're not currently running for office then I guess it's logical to assume you are perfectly satisfied with everything happening in the nation right now.


Stop being childish, stop. Having a tantrum because you didn't get everything you your way is only an acceptable tactic of discussion when you are between two and three years old. Ounce you are four years or older, you learn to share, compromise, trade and that you do not get everything you want. And if you don't get everything your way, you do not get to ruin it for everyone else.

You want to be an absolute purist, go be an evangelical christian republican. You will be in good company.
 
2020-12-04 7:45:26 PM  
No matter what Pelosi and Treason Turtle agree, Trump won't sign it unless there's something in it for him.
 
2020-12-04 7:45:39 PM  

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?


They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.
 
2020-12-04 7:46:03 PM  

Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.


What would that look like?
 
2020-12-04 7:46:08 PM  

LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.


And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"
 
2020-12-04 7:46:11 PM  
At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!
 
2020-12-04 7:49:02 PM  

quo vadimus: Wanderlusting: To be fair, nobody was suing any businesses anyways. Immunity from a giant nothingburger like suing your employer for Covid seems like an easy thing to rollover on.

Also, good luck convincing a court you caught Covid at work and not at the local grocery store, or gas station, or Costco, or WalMart, or everywhere else people have gone since the shutdowns were lifted.

[Fark user image 377x750]

https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2020/1​1/18/lawsuit-tyson-managers-bet-money-​on-how-many-workers-would-contract-cov​id-19/


Back in the day, betting how many of your employees would die from covid would be something you would get murdered for and everybody would be cheering when it happens.

This is comic book vilain type of stuff.
 
2020-12-04 7:49:26 PM  

Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"


Wouldn't like millions of people be homeless?


That's a pretty high price to pay for senate seats.
 
2020-12-04 7:49:53 PM  

qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?


Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.
 
2020-12-04 7:50:17 PM  
This thread didn't stand a chance.
 
2020-12-04 7:51:25 PM  

OhioUGrad: At this point, might as well have Pelosi pass bills in the House to exempt KY from receiving any federal money and anything else they can do to punish KY. Ky voted to punish the country, drive them into a further shiathole than they already are!


If Lincoln had burned the south to the farking ground like they should have been post-civil war, all this would have been avoided.

Mitch would have never been born and all those scumbags making the GOP of today would have never existed.
 
2020-12-04 7:51:41 PM  

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.


They actually do compromise.


The problem is when Republicans compromise Republicans say "They won" and when Democrats compromise they say "We lost" so it just doesn't feel like it.
 
2020-12-04 7:52:07 PM  

purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates


No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.
 
2020-12-04 7:52:27 PM  

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?


If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

I'm not sure why people heap so much blame on Pelosi, or anyone else, really, when the buck stops right on McConnell's desk. And I'm not sure why people are heaping blame on "the Democrats" for failing to unseat Yertle, when Amy McGrath was vigorously campaigning against him for over a year. She was neck and neck with him until a week before the election, and isn't that strange.

There is one person, and ONLY one, who is responsible for the bullshiat in Congress, and somehow he keeps skating away from scrutiny.
 
2020-12-04 7:53:03 PM  

qorkfiend: It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?


Sure, just like sometimes you bet before the flop.


It was smart to not compromise before, when breadcrumbs could have saved lives, and it's smart to have compromised for breadcrumbs now that the problem is demonstrably worse and the value of breadcrumbs has dropped significantly?

I'd argue at least one of these had to have been a mistake, but then I'd be accused of blaming Democrats for literally everything, I guess.
 
2020-12-04 7:53:53 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.


I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Physical threats will not work.
 
2020-12-04 7:54:43 PM  

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Is this PAC incapable of action on their own?

Apparently so....


Then I'm not sure why you want them involved
 
2020-12-04 7:54:51 PM  

Corvus: Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"

Wouldn't like millions of people be homeless?


That's a pretty high price to pay for senate seats.


OK, BOOMER Pelosi

Do you think Republicans would like for that to happen if it means that Democrats in Georgia would be EVEN MORE fired up? McConnell would love nothing more for Pelosi to accept the shiat sandwich.

Personally, I'd rather starve than eat that.
 
2020-12-04 7:55:51 PM  

Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"


And if they don't pass anything and Warnock and Ossoff lose, you'll say "todaso".
 
2020-12-04 7:56:01 PM  

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

They didn't rely on just the idiots in Kentucky. They also relied on the idiots in North Carolina and Maine, because guess what? The voters still get to vote.

The plan to get legislation passed is to...wait for it...get the Senate on board, which requires getting McConnell personally on board. McConnell knows this, and he knows that idiots like you will blame the Democrats for his intransigence, exactly like you're doing right now.


No, I'm blaming Democrats for having no way of dealing with him. He exists, so unless he's the king they need to find a way to get their shiat passed before the people that don't recognize the actual problem start blaming Democrats.
 
2020-12-04 7:56:08 PM  

Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.


And how's that working out for them electorally?
 
2020-12-04 7:56:14 PM  

Stibium: Corvus: Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"

Wouldn't like millions of people be homeless?


That's a pretty high price to pay for senate seats.

OK, BOOMER Pelosi

Do you think Republicans would like for that to happen if it means that Democrats in Georgia would be EVEN MORE fired up? McConnell would love nothing more for Pelosi to accept the shiat sandwich.

Personally, I'd rather starve than eat that.



So that is worth millions of poor people to be thrown out of their homes?
 
2020-12-04 7:56:32 PM  

qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Is this PAC incapable of action on their own?

Apparently so....

Then I'm not sure why you want them involved


Maybe because they currently are not?
 
2020-12-04 7:57:50 PM  

qorkfiend: Stibium: LordJiro: quo vadimus: quiotu: IrateShadow: We're farked either way, but doubly so if this garbage bill passes.  It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.  The direct result will be that nothing further will pass and the public will be told to get back to work with no recourse or go homeless.

You assume Mitch will let this pass... or that Trump will sign it.

If it removes corporate liability, it will pass. That's all Mitch cares about. And Dump will sign, take credit for it being awesome, and blame dems for it being not enough.

Mitch McConnell has already shot down bills that removed corporate liability. Right now, his priority is making the Democrats look bad so Republicans can completely take Congress in 2022.

And if a compromise gets passed now, how much steam gets taken out of the Georgia runoff?

I swear, if Warnock and Ossof lose..... I'm gonna say "toadaso"

And if they don't pass anything and Warnock and Ossoff lose, you'll say "todaso".


Uhh huh. Go ahead and add me to your favorites list so you won't forget.
 
2020-12-04 7:58:56 PM  

ReaverZ: purpurosea: ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?

No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates

No, no redirection.  Who said  The job is done.


You can ask me for quotes all you want but I'm not literally quoting you guys, I'm pointing out now is not the time to pat yourself on the back and say you did a good job. You aren't saying the job is done, you're acting like it.

Why the fark are you all having such a tantrum at people demanding more if you actually agree with us?
 
2020-12-04 7:58:59 PM  
I think the people in power whose missteps, regardless of intent, result in mass deaths of citizens should be called to account by the law. And potentially a firing squad.

That would include all leadership, I think. Speaker, president and his staff, various agency heads, etc.

If that's a crazy thing that we can never expect to happen, I'm not sure I want this country to succeed any further.

If it's something we can hope for, I hope the McConnell gets a particularly harsh sentence. Something like heavy weights on his ankles pulling him down onto a blade that will slowly slice him in half taint-first. Just spitballing.
 
2020-12-04 8:00:57 PM  
I remain convinced that my furby Quixote could legislate better than Nancy Pelosi.

Fark user imageView Full Size


/doo?
 
2020-12-04 8:01:17 PM  

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.

Physical threats will not work.


A large enough mob can be very persuasive.

Every revolution begins as a large mob.

Threats of force, not necessarily violence but yes also violence if necessary, can produce tremendous change.

Organization and militancy are the most powerful weapons that the working class have.
 
2020-12-04 8:01:26 PM  

qorkfiend: Stibium: qorkfiend: Stibium: Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?

Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.

What would that look like?

Republicans compromise so seldom, I honestly have no idea.

And how's that working out for them electorally?


Not nearly as poorly as it should have.

/looking at you, Georgia
 
2020-12-04 8:01:50 PM  
FARK: Where hating the Democratic party all the time somehow makes you "Democrat" and supporting them makes you a "Republican". 🤣
 
2020-12-04 8:02:23 PM  

ReaverZ: Stop being childish, stop. Having a tantrum because you didn't get everything you your way is only an acceptable tactic of discussion when you are between two and three years old. Ounce you are four years or older, you learn to share, compromise, trade and that you do not get everything you want. And if you don't get everything your way, you do not get to ruin it for everyone else.


Aw, how adorable, lookit the internet rando bristling up like a kitten learning how to be fierce and intimidating for the first time. Congrats, you just outed yourself as a spectator-sport voter who had nothing at stake this election. You don't impress me and you sure as hell don't speak for who you want us to believe you speak for, because you don't speak for me. Another privileged radical centrist who is tired of being compared to MLK's White Moderate while doing a spot-on impression of him. Might as well copy-and-paste this for you:

I know piss-yellow Farkers like you and qork can't get this through your thick skulls but by using disingenuous framing like "get what you want," you betray your pure seething contempt for the working poor and the left by implying that the truly desperate in this nation are all spoiled brats stomping their feet and demanding more than they'll ever need.

To say nothing of how you presume to know our needs better than we do, or how soon we ought to have it... if COVID doesn't wipe out this entire nation, NIMBY Syndrome will.
 
2020-12-04 8:03:33 PM  

Gyrfalcon: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?

Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?

If McConnell is still Senate majority leader, nothing will change, because of an overlooked Senate rule that allows the Senate majority leader to unilaterally decide what bills get voted on in the Senate, and which do not.  And as long as Mitch can hold whatever whip he's got over the heads of Senate Republicans, he will stay there, and we will remain in this deadlock.

I'm not sure why people heap so much blame on Pelosi, or anyone else, really, when the buck stops right on McConnell's desk. And I'm not sure why people are heaping blame on "the Democrats" for failing to unseat Yertle, when Amy McGrath was vigorously campaigning against him for over a year. She was neck and neck with him until a week before the election, and isn't that strange.

There is one person, and ONLY one, who is responsible for the bullshiat in Congress, and somehow he keeps skating away from scrutiny.


Probably because all we here is how they're going to fight for us only for them to roll over and let McConnell and the GOP do what they want.
 
2020-12-04 8:04:20 PM  

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Ok, cool. I don't see any of those around right now so we can wait until they show up. (Side note: this may have been more effective before the election showed that the GOP's COVID response is very far from the anchor you think it is.)

By the way, I've got my own pitchforks and torches.

I'm not talking about you doofus. I'm saying we should be doing this to Republicans in the senate. I was playing in the space you made, the hypothetical negotiation.

You are just looking for a fight. If you want one, join a local leftist org. They will help direct your anger in the right place.

I was taking the role of the Senate Republicans in this hypothetical negotiation, you doofus.

It's one of those fancy two-way metaphors because not only will a torch-wielding mob not be able to simply walk up to McConnell due to his position and the physical protection it affords him, Republican voters literally have their own torches of the tiki variety.


Re read the post you quoted. Then take a deep breath and calm down. You just pointed out the exact thing I just pointed out about your hypothetical.

I think you might have an adrenaline addiction and you're fighting here as a way to get your fix.

Deep breath and step away from the thread for a minute. It will help your blood pressure.
 
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