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(Twitter)   Pelosi is scientifically settling for a stimulus bill that will scientifically get people food on the table even though it is scientifically worth $1.3T less than what Democrats previously asked for through scientific analysis. Science   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, shot  
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1761 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2020 at 6:20 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-04 7:07:01 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

Yeah, right.

You actually taking physical action against the government?  Please, don't make me laugh.

You'll sit on your couch and tell everyone else to go and do it.  You won't get up off your ass to do a thing.


I take action as often as I can. Protest as often as possible.

We all should.

I dont have anything to prove to anyone on fark. But you have plenty to prove to yourself and your neighbors. We all do.

Solidarity and praxis. Only you can know if you're doing your part.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:06 PM  
Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:31 PM  
To be fair, nobody was suing any businesses anyways. Immunity from a giant nothingburger like suing your employer for Covid seems like an easy thing to rollover on.

Also, good luck convincing a court you caught Covid at work and not at the local grocery store, or gas station, or Costco, or WalMart, or everywhere else people have gone since the shutdowns were lifted.
 
2020-12-04 7:07:43 PM  

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


GOP: "You will get almost nothing and like it."

Ancient Dem Party leadership:

Fark user imageView Full Size



If the other side begins from a crazy position, you're a terrible negotiator if you counter with a reasonable offer.  You're showing your feeb hand at that point.
 
2020-12-04 7:09:07 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Well, PBS Newshour is being obnoxious today. Their interviewers keep saying that the deficit is "now reaching uprecendented levels" and "unheard of levels" instead of saying that the deficit reached those levels months ago under president Trump. They're basically setting it up as a problem that is suddenly upon the USA and they've limited it to conversations about Biden. The Dems are already being painted into a spending corner.


They're funded by the Koch brothers.  What do you expect?
 
2020-12-04 7:09:30 PM  
Biden and Pelosi are temporarily embarrassed Republicans.
We have been shown this for decades.
At this point it is like yelling at a dog for peeing on the rug two hours after he asked you to go outside.
We know who they are, we had the opportunity to let them out but we didn't.
Instead they are going to just make messes on the rug for two years.
 
2020-12-04 7:10:00 PM  
2020 election results and the shiatstorm that will follow :
Fark user imageView Full Size

/russians were uneducated religious dumbfarks before communism and they got what they asked for, genocide, war and dictatorship
//73 million who voted for trump again are the same kind of dumbfarks who ruined russia and theyll do it again
 
2020-12-04 7:10:10 PM  

leeksfromchichis: gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.


Its what you could get and, literally, all you could get because one side of the negotiators (Repubs) have nothing to lose or gain by saving anyone's life.  If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.  You genuinely can't have it both ways.
 
2020-12-04 7:10:17 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."


media2.giphy.comView Full Size


The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.
 
2020-12-04 7:10:34 PM  

qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.


Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.
 
2020-12-04 7:12:09 PM  

gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.


And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!
 
2020-12-04 7:12:35 PM  

lolmao500: IrateShadow: It gives no direct relief and give McConnell his corporate immunity for COVID infections.

For all the effort he puts into this whole immunity from lawsuit COVID BS... WHY??? Has anyone sued any business because they gave them COVID, killed family members/friends or made them disabled???

If its the case, Ive not seen any example of it... so why in the fark does he wants to do that? Does he thinks that somehow Murica will change overnight and laws for rich and corporate people will matter once more?? He got more faith in people than I have.


Ever heard of asbestos?
 
2020-12-04 7:12:35 PM  

purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.


Uh, ok. Who said it was?
 
2020-12-04 7:14:21 PM  

qorkfiend: purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?


So you're committed to fighting for something substantial? Good to hear. It just reads like you're more concerned with stifling criticism than addressing real problems.
 
2020-12-04 7:14:35 PM  

SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.


The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?
 
2020-12-04 7:14:40 PM  

gadian: Nonpo: Pelosi is literally admitting she's agreeing to give the republicans what they want in their version before the new president and congress is sworn in and the democrats have a chance of getting what they want. The republicans are only moving on this now because they fear the democrats could get their version passed without republican support so they're offering this turd pile and Nancy is there to scoop it up and call it a big win for the democrats. In reality this will serve as the final excuse for the GOP to say, been there, did that and enough democrats will go along with it to kill any future chance of a better bill.

I'm just farking tired of this. I'd rather the democrats fight and take chances and fail than to just surrender immediately out of custom.

Here's a run down of the sum total of the discussion:

The people:  Hey lots of us are dying and millions of us are about to literally starve to death or homeless if we don't get some support.  We need something, anything.

Republicans: Heh, we're not going to give shiat.  Die you poors.

Dems:  fark, the republicans aren't going to give us shiat, but like, millions of people are literally going to die or be homeless if they don't get help.  We gotta do something, anything.

Republicans:  Enjoy your breadcrumbs.

Pelsoi: shiat, this is awful, but it's something.

The people:  You should've held out longer, in the meantime getting us no relief even when we literally told you we needed help right way.  You suck at negotiating.

That brings us to present day.


We desperately need relief.
We also need that relief to be at least a certain amount to keep people alive.
We also desperately need Republicans not to get blanket corporate immunity.

The people are starving and dying.  Let us not expect them to be reasonable in their desperations.
 
2020-12-04 7:15:07 PM  

purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!


No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass
 
2020-12-04 7:15:45 PM  

Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.


Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.
 
2020-12-04 7:15:50 PM  

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: Weren't the people who are now saying this compromise was good the same people giving Congress cover for not negotiating sooner, before hundreds of thousands of people died?

Is there anything you're allowed to criticize your elected representatives for, or is not being the worst people in office enough to shut down every discussion of how they could be better?

Too little too late isn't something to cheer for. Something is better than nothing, sure - but just cos you got something doesn't mean the job is done. Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So you're committed to fighting for something substantial? Good to hear. It just reads like you're more concerned with stifling criticism than addressing real problems.


No, that's just what your biases are reading into my comments. Those are your problem, not mine.
 
2020-12-04 7:16:44 PM  

qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass


So you agree? That it isn't enough?
 
2020-12-04 7:16:45 PM  

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?


LOL with a PRO-Trump Democrat

Nice try
 
2020-12-04 7:16:56 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


Seriously? You strong men of action are waiting for others to act first?
 
2020-12-04 7:17:12 PM  

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?


Obviously
 
2020-12-04 7:17:28 PM  

gadian: leeksfromchichis: gadian:

If the breadcrumbs aren't even enough to sustain life for one more day for the people starving, then it is a meaningless token gesture and if it's combined with lawsuit immunity and/or corporate welfare it's practically a declaration of war on the poor.

Its what you could get and, literally, all you could get because one side of the negotiators (Repubs) have nothing to lose or gain by saving anyone's life.  If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.  You genuinely can't have it both ways.


What baloney.  Pelosi does not go in with the intent of getting the most for the working class - she goes in with the intent of not upsetting the donor class, so the negotiations cease at that line.  The GOP knows it, and plays her like a fiddle.

Then those who support Everything Nancy scream "WHY, YOU DIRTY PROGRESSIVES! THIS IS YOUR FAULT!"
 
2020-12-04 7:17:44 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?


Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?
 
2020-12-04 7:18:15 PM  

qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?

Obviously


Good. Start saying that more instead of trying to give people cover for underperforming.
 
2020-12-04 7:18:38 PM  

purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So


No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?
 
2020-12-04 7:20:33 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


Sooooooo, ain't nothing gonna happen.

Noted.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:04 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.


If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:49 PM  

Wanderlusting: To be fair, nobody was suing any businesses anyways. Immunity from a giant nothingburger like suing your employer for Covid seems like an easy thing to rollover on.

Also, good luck convincing a court you caught Covid at work and not at the local grocery store, or gas station, or Costco, or WalMart, or everywhere else people have gone since the shutdowns were lifted.


Fark user imageView Full Size


https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2020/​1​1/18/lawsuit-tyson-managers-bet-money-​on-how-many-workers-would-contract-cov​id-19/
 
2020-12-04 7:21:55 PM  

purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: qorkfiend: purpurosea: gadian: If she had done nothing and continued to hold out, the same posters here would be arguing that if Pelosi really cared, she'd get something on the table.

And you would treat that like a stroke of genius same as this.

You genuinely can't have it both ways.

Moderates sure can, though!

No one is treating it like a "stroke of genius", dumbass

So you agree? That it isn't enough?

Obviously

Good. Start saying that more instead of trying to give people cover for underperforming.


I'm not giving them "cover". I'm pointing out there's a huge turtle-shaped roadblock named Mitch McConnell in the way and that to a great degree he personally controls whether something gets done or not. (We also call these kind of factual, verifiable observations "reality". And no, I don't want to hear about how you think "should" be.)
 
2020-12-04 7:21:56 PM  

LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?


Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.
 
2020-12-04 7:23:07 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?

Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.


You haven't already figured this stuff out? I thought you were standing ready.
 
2020-12-04 7:23:14 PM  

ReaverZ: purpurosea: . Stop acting like this is some great victory and understand people are asking more because we need more. The job isn't done.

Uh, ok. Who said it was?

So

No, no dodging, answer the question. Who said it was?


No, I am not literally quoting from this thread. If you're acting like moderates on this site haven't been calling Pelosi a master tactician for the last few years, I don't know what to tell you.

It was a smart move to compromise now, like it was a smart move not to compromise sooner, right?
 
2020-12-04 7:23:32 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: Conqueror of Bread: Wanderlusting: Conqueror of Bread: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Here's the offer that should be made.

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall.
No, not that wall..."

[media2.giphy.com image 480x268]

The problem with threatening pitchforks, torches, and guillotines is that when another decade passes and ya'll still haven't done anything, you're just going to look like the impotent yapping dogs you actually are. 

Pick up your sword and stand opposed. Betcha won't.

Us leftists are already holding our rifles. Just waiting on the coward liberals to join us. Just like in Spain where you betrayed us to fascism.

Just like in Germany when you capitulated to fascism and murdered us.

You'll probably just watch and cheer as the nazis kill us again. But once again it will be the socialists on the right side of history and the liberals wondering why the fascists have won.

If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.


Wanton murder does not make a movement.

And I dont smart my own comments. That wouldn't serve a purpose.

If I cared about popularity contests I'd post shiatlib memes.
 
2020-12-04 7:24:50 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-04 7:25:10 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.


This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.
 
2020-12-04 7:25:27 PM  

qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.


She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?
 
2020-12-04 7:25:54 PM  

qorkfiend: Conqueror of Bread: LandOfChocolate: Conqueror of Bread: eddie_irvine: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: Gyrfalcon: eddie_irvine: This is a shiat bill, nothing but failed supply side economics. She should walk away.

Because nothing at all is much better than something! People can eat principles for Christmas!

It is nothing. It's just anothe transfer of (future) taxpayer money to millionaires and billionaires. The regular person gets nothing out of this.

Start marching, Mao.

Sure thing, Hitler!

No, but seriously, what does a bill that does nothing to help the problem have to do with Chinese communism?

He's just angry and lashing out because his politics are empty and his spine is missing.

We ought to be marching.

But first we have to decide to stand in solidarity together. And bourgiois liberals are too fat and comfortable to get off the couch and stand for something.

Why march when you can fark?

Can you give me directions to the means of production so we can march to seize them?

Thats actually a valid observation. Since we don't produce very much the occupation would need to be across distribution and logistics centers to make the most impact.

But if you're actually curious how a movement might begin, you might start by building a local group of likeminded political actors who can impact change on the local level and start creating a Cadre.

If we do that across the nation using unions and movement politics like BLM as a springboard, it wouldn't be difficult to seize various industries and force collective ownership of them.

Amazon warehouses would be a great start.

You haven't already figured this stuff out? I thought you were standing ready.


I am. So are most leftists. But there are so many moving parts to a successful revolutionary act.

If you're actually interested i can point you toward sources which can help you understand the theory of marxism and strategies for revolutionary struggle.
 
2020-12-04 7:26:08 PM  

qorkfiend: I'm not giving them "cover". I'm pointing out there's a huge turtle-shaped roadblock named Mitch McConnell in the way and that to a great degree he personally controls whether something gets done or not. (We also call these kind of factual, verifiable observations "reality". And no, I don't want to hear about how you think "should" be.)


Exactly this.  Mitch decides who and how many live or die.  Full stop.  Right now there is no parlimentary run around for it because so many assholes kept voting Republican.  From an academic perspective, I'm wondering when someone with nothing to lose cottons onto this.  Mitch is certainly in the process of farking around, eventually someone should bring the "and find out" portion.
 
2020-12-04 7:26:22 PM  

qorkfiend: SolderGlob: qorkfiend: Let's negotiate.

I have something you want.
You have nothing I want.

Make me an offer.

Listen, if the Democrats haven't figured out how to dethrone McConnell and the GOP thus far then there's seriously no hope for them going forward. If they continually capitulate to him then they can kiss any hope of gains in '22 goodbye.

The election was literally one month ago. You watched it yourself. You think no one tried to "dethrone" McConnell?


Relying on the idiots in Kentucky didn't work, what's their plan to getting any of their legislation passed? They'll have have House and Presidency after January, what's their excuse gonna be going in to '22?
 
2020-12-04 7:26:39 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: TheOtherGuy: Don't charactarize it as a mistake?  Okay, how about malfeasance?  Dereliction of duty?  Contempt of Congress and the Constitution?  Crimes Against Humanity?  Am I getting warmer, you psychopathic coont?

Mitch still has no bill written or passed in his chamber.

And for that I blame Nancy Pelosi.


Nancy Pelosi failed to consistently show up on the Sunday Morning shows, and effectively LEAD Democratic Party messaging to bake "Mitch McConnell is not even considering anything the duly-elected majority passes in the House."

And for that I blame Mitch McConnell because if I admit that I've been backing feeble leadership all this time, geez.

Pelosi is a prime example of Dems getting sucked into the Sunk Cost Fallacy.  Refusing to cut bait, just for appearances.
 
2020-12-04 7:26:41 PM  
There were able to remove some thigns now anyway.  They wanted money to help fund the postal service as well as secure the election.  They were also hoping that the Dems would flip the senate.

The firts few things are no longer an issue, as the election is done, and the dems did not get the senate.  So they have to compromise, also Trump is gone, so they can play a little lose with things because they know with trump gone they can hold out a bit if the gop tries to add crap back in trump would of wanted.

It sucks, but its better then nothing at this point.

and shes not wrong.  A vaccine is suppose to be released by the end of the year to the end of jan, that means they will need less funding then what they needed 6-1 month ago.  when no vaccine was in sight
 
2020-12-04 7:27:07 PM  

bluejeansonfire: Dems sure love capitulating to Republicans.

This is indefensible.


run for office then
 
2020-12-04 7:27:38 PM  

Stibium: qorkfiend: It's Pelosi's fault that other people don't pay attention.

She *could* ask for progressive PAC to spend some money to educate the public on what is and is not in the bill. Covid stimulus is that important, is it not?


Also, no, I do not believe it should be an "everything-or-nothing" proposition either. It would just be nice for once for Third-Rail Democrats to use the bully pulpit and make Republican compromise for once.
 
2020-12-04 7:28:09 PM  

Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.


The person I was replying to has already dialed his so-called 'anger' back quite a few notches.

He talks a good line, but doesn't have the stones to carry it out.
 
2020-12-04 7:28:31 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: Wanton murder does not make a movement.


Then what the fark does this even mean?

"We've got pitchforks and torches. Give us what we need or we will give you the wall."

You can't threaten murder and then backtrack and say it's not a movement. God damn, you are a yappy, impotent dog, aren't you? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt of actually being a revolutionary, but now I see you're no Che Guevara, you're Justa Complaina.
 
2020-12-04 7:29:10 PM  

Conqueror of Bread: We've got pitchforks and torches.


no, no you, we, they whatever don't.

/ well the GOP supporters do
 
2020-12-04 7:29:12 PM  

dkulprit: Mikey1969: vpb: What's asinine about it?  There are a lot of people who need help and would have gotten nothing if she hadn't compromised.

Because almost nobody here understands the word "compromise".

Oh, we understand compromise.  We have millions of people who are unemployed and living under the poverty line, the GOP just put us 10 trillion into debt to give tax breaks to the wealthy, so we're supposed to take about 150$ per person in the country while those rich who already just got breaks and money from government?

Compromise is:

"We want 2,000$/person"

"No, 1,000$ only. "

"Ok, meet in middle 1,500$"

Not:

"We want 2,000 for each and every person."

"Nope, were going to give 1 trillion to businesses, make them immune from liability and the people get 150$."

"Ok.  That works."

That's not a compromise.  That's getting walked over.


Weird how I didn't call you out or anything here. Maybe you aren't in the list?
 
2020-12-04 7:30:23 PM  

Wanderlusting: AurizenDarkstar: If you're serious with this, then get out there and start killing people.

I mean, you're arguing that you're loaded for bear and willing to kill to defend your right.  Well, do it instead of talking about it. You obviously believe that you have the strength and arms to do it.

Also, smarting your own comments is the sign of an insecure person.  Just thought you might want to know.

This. Last time I checked the protestors in Honk Kong weren't waiting for people to join them. They just did what they thought was right. 

If you started wheeling out guillotines and started beheading business owners in the streets, I'd have a lot more respect for you than watching you piss and moan for the Nth time about how Wall Street gets the help and you're still sucking your thumbs.

There's nothing - I repeat, NOTHING, worse than someone who threatens big things, big changes, and disruption and then hides like a coward when it's time to stand up.

Make it happen. Stand opposed or shut the fark up.


One person doesn't make a revolution happen. It takes millions.

Will you join a movement to change things? Or just screech your feelings of impotence at those who say we ought to?

Id reccomend joining a union or a socialist group in your area. Maybe an IWW chapter. You ought to start strategizing how to implement socialist systems in your local area. Mutual aid and local production are important aspects of any revolutionary foundation.
 
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