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(Fark)   When will racial issues matter as much as gender issues?   (fark.com) divider line
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97 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 04 Dec 2020 at 5:12 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-03 11:25:17 PM  
Looks like somewhere around the year 2200. It will take a critical total number of whites, or proportion of white vs POC. It is obvious that, enough white people have a death grip on white supremacy, to make real equality discussions moot.
 
2020-12-04 12:08:26 AM  
Awesome that you think it's a competition.

*thumbs up*
 
2020-12-04 12:19:22 AM  
It will matter once there is nowhere that white flight can occur.  Every time a predominantly white area has an influx of minorities, it happens.  It accelerates once the white majority declines, stabilizes and a new area becomes the focus of holding the line.

It's the whole immigration fight.  When the Proud Boys were screaming, "Jews will not replace us," they were broadcasting their fear, but still hiding their real fear.  I'm not sure there is a single Jewish person that is more ignorant, uneducated, unmotivated, or less qualified for any position in society than them.  But, there are lots of uneducated, illiterate, and untrained people willing to take those jobs that are unworthy of the bigots.  The bigots realize they are too lazy to better themselves and can't stand the idea that anyone of different appearance could be less lazy.

LBJ knew racists and how they thought.
 
2020-12-04 12:40:11 AM  
Let's see...
1856 - White men allowed suffrage, no matter social standing.
1870 - Black men suffrage
=26 - yrs
1920 - White women suffrage
=64 - yrs
1965 - All women and races suffrage
=109 - yrs
2020 - "Equal" rights; majority conservative scotus...
=164 - yrs
2200 - True Equal Rights
=344 - yrs

/surprisingly consistent...
//really f*cking sad
 
2020-12-04 6:22:59 AM  
I guess it depends on what you mean by "matter."

For liberal-minded people, I'd guess they both matter equally.  But human nature being what it is, if "matter" means the elimination of racial and gender discrimination and prioritizing which needs to be addressed first, I'd have to say never.  We're too tribal in our mentality, and our hardwired preference is to be with people like us.  It can be overcome with education, but many are still taught from a young age that different = bad.

Back when Babylon 5 was still in production, its creator J. Michael Straczynski told an interesting story in the Usenet newsgroup he participated in.  Set on a large space station, the show required a lot of extras, many of them in alien prosthetics.  An extra could be made up as a Minbari one day, a Narn the next, and a Drazi the day after that.  Between breaks in production -- lunch, setting up for another take -- he saw that the extras pretty much ALWAYS self-organized into groups based on the aliens they were portraying on that particular day.  Our need to be with people just like us was so powerful that it even manifested itself when portraying fictional alien races.
 
2020-12-04 6:35:08 AM  

Lambskincoat: Looks like somewhere around the year 2200. It will take a critical total number of whites, or proportion of white vs POC. It is obvious that, enough white people have a death grip on white supremacy, to make real equality discussions moot.


Well, white folks are kinda slated to fall under the 50% line a LOT sooner than that. Which is why folks were so desperate to futz with the Census this go around.

2030 is gonna be a BIG year for this sort of statistic, so we can expect a yuge white power motherf*cker surge before this. They know. They have crunched the numbers. That's why they're getting reaaaaaal desperate.

When white people become a minority in this country, THEN it will be time to "talk reasonably" about race relations.
 
2020-12-04 7:21:22 AM  

hubiestubert: Lambskincoat: Looks like somewhere around the year 2200. It will take a critical total number of whites, or proportion of white vs POC. It is obvious that, enough white people have a death grip on white supremacy, to make real equality discussions moot.

Well, white folks are kinda slated to fall under the 50% line a LOT sooner than that. Which is why folks were so desperate to futz with the Census this go around.

2030 is gonna be a BIG year for this sort of statistic, so we can expect a yuge white power motherf*cker surge before this. They know. They have crunched the numbers. That's why they're getting reaaaaaal desperate.

When white people become a minority in this country, THEN it will be time to "talk reasonably" about race relations.


Hardly the case.

There's a notion that everything will be all hunky dory when the white population dips below 50% in regards to advancing liberal politics and the like, when in reality, what will happen is the definition of "white" will change in order to get that % back up to 50%. Also, for any real effect to take place, that growth needs to be spread out over the entire US and not just in deep blue states like CA or NY. Doesn't matter how diverse those states are as long as ND, SD, WY, etc. remain > 90% white.

Lastly, and I'm going to piss off a lot of Farkers, but I don't think that the majority of liberals know how to deal with racial issues effectively unlike previous presidents such as LBJ. There are times that you need to apply non liberal solutions to liberal concerns, and I don't think leadership has what it takes for it. A bunch of ragtag Proud Boys can hiss and snarl at politicians and they run scared of them these days. LBJ, for example, would have simply sicced the NG on them and ended their pathetic stunts in 30 seconds - hell, LBJ himself probably would've challenged them to a fist fight, knowing him. It's hard to be the party that wants to curb white supremacy when you don't have or don't want to use the methods necessary to do so, and right wingers know it and take full advantage of it.
 
2020-12-04 10:13:03 AM  
This whole thread need a giant flashing "BAIT" icon.
 
2020-12-04 11:02:53 AM  
Wave Of Anal Fury:
We're too tribal in our mentality, and our hardwired preference is to be with people like us.  It can be overcome with education, but many are still taught from a young age that different = bad.

^^^THIS IS YOUR ANSWER RIGHT HERE^^^

People forget we're simply animals. We can reason, yes, but we're still animals. we have these grandiose, narcissistic opinions of our species because we have opposable thumbs and an IQ that allows us to do some pretty cool stuff, but the reality is our basic instinct is visceral and animalistic. We've developed some pretty bad habits over hundreds of years, not because people themselves are inherently bad (but they are easy to blame because of history), but because we are animals and behave like animals do. The patterns simply have repeated through generations upon generations and have been responsible for horrible events, peaking through some generations, waning through others, just like anything else does  - religious extremism for example. It doesn't excuse any of it, but I think it offers a fairly valid explanation of why this happened in the first place through hundreds of years. I think 'Wave Of Anal Fury' has a great point that education from birth IS one possible way to help combat this, but can we really fight the fact that we really are just animals that wear clothes? Is the ability to reason enough?

(and a great user name to go with it....)
 
2020-12-04 11:49:12 AM  

cherryl taggart: It will matter once there is nowhere that white flight can occur.  Every time a predominantly white area has an influx of minorities, it happens.  It accelerates once the white majority declines, stabilizes and a new area becomes the focus of holding the line.


My grandparents were 'block busted' in St. Louis.  They were in an all white neighborhood on the north side of St. Louis, and there were offers of 3x the price of a house to get the first minority in.  They didn't take it because they liked the house.  Long story short, they were the 2nd to the last white family to leave, and they lost their shirts on that house.  The third to the last was an elderly white widow who's family just sent in a moving van because the neighborhood was so dangerous.  They left around 1975, and the neighborhood was off 70 near the old WW2 ammunition plant.

My (white) family lived on the north side of St. Louis for generations.  They've now all left the area, mostly due to high crime, lousy schools, vandalism, theft, and muggings/murders.  In my parent's neighborhood, a very openly gay couple who had an awesome house and had all of the little old ladies in the neighborhood loving them was chased out by anti gay slurs painted on their garage door soon after some section 8 tenants moved in a few doors down.

I went to private schools, because the public schools were awful.  I started in public schools but the school was terrible with both safety and education.  When I did a college interview, the guy saw my address and asked if I was 'rotting' there.  He found out that I went to a private high school and I had an acceptance letter three days after I applied.

"White Flight" is more about safety than anything.  People want their cars left alone when they are parked outside.  They don't want burglars in their house.  They don't want gang graffiti sprayed all over everywhere.  They don't want their kids hassled by gangs at school or bullied by kids whose parents don't care.  This is a universal thing.  I had a friend in college who lived in 'the hood' on the north side of St. Louis.  His car had been stolen 5 times.  The police didn't care.  Why would anyone want to live there?  The same can be said of redneck trailer parks.  I'm in Georgia and I've had more problems in my 'affordable' neighborhood with rednecks vs any minority (that would be 0).  I frankly don't care who my neighbors are as long as they are quiet, keep their property decent, and keep their hands on their own stuff.

I'm in the Atlanta area.  In other suburbs there have been max influxes of Korean and Indian (from India) residents with very few problems and no white flight.  Presumably a huge factor in that is that they are generally well educated and have good work opportunities.  Fix underperforming schools and a lot of the issues will go away.  Unfortunately, the people running the underperforming schools have every excuse in the book as to why they refuse to change anything, mostly because it would take effort on their part.  My grade school sucked in the 70s, and it is rated 1/10 on greatschools.org today.  In 2050, it will probably still suck.  And nobody cares.

(And no, I'm not some raging racist asshat.  I've mentored a bunch of minorities from lousy backgrounds to get tech jobs)
 
2020-12-04 11:49:55 AM  
Define your terms.
 
2020-12-04 12:01:16 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: cherryl taggart: It will matter once there is nowhere that white flight can occur.  Every time a predominantly white area has an influx of minorities, it happens.  It accelerates once the white majority declines, stabilizes and a new area becomes the focus of holding the line.

My grandparents were 'block busted' in St. Louis.  They were in an all white neighborhood on the north side of St. Louis, and there were offers of 3x the price of a house to get the first minority in.  They didn't take it because they liked the house.  Long story short, they were the 2nd to the last white family to leave, and they lost their shirts on that house.  The third to the last was an elderly white widow who's family just sent in a moving van because the neighborhood was so dangerous.  They left around 1975, and the neighborhood was off 70 near the old WW2 ammunition plant.

My (white) family lived on the north side of St. Louis for generations.  They've now all left the area, mostly due to high crime, lousy schools, vandalism, theft, and muggings/murders.  In my parent's neighborhood, a very openly gay couple who had an awesome house and had all of the little old ladies in the neighborhood loving them was chased out by anti gay slurs painted on their garage door soon after some section 8 tenants moved in a few doors down.

I went to private schools, because the public schools were awful.  I started in public schools but the school was terrible with both safety and education.  When I did a college interview, the guy saw my address and asked if I was 'rotting' there.  He found out that I went to a private high school and I had an acceptance letter three days after I applied.

"White Flight" is more about safety than anything.  People want their cars left alone when they are parked outside.  They don't want burglars in their house.  They don't want gang graffiti sprayed all over everywhere.  They don't want their kids hassled by gangs at school or bullied by kids whose parents don't car ...



Every word you say here is 100% true. I grew up in a town in downstate New York that was very similar to this. It turned into (literally) one of the most dangerous cities -in the world- for the better part of two decades, despite its size. The following were activities where we would legitimately be taking our lives into our own hands: Going to Junior High and High School (Elementary School wasn't that bad), going out in certain neighborhoods or walking around about 20-30 square blocks at night, hanging outside school grounds at any hour of the day or night, even on the weekends, going to the public parks, going to the convenient store, going to the mall...you get the idea.

Our past-time? Getting out of that city. It's not like we hated it. We just didn't want to live in that environment. I had a LOAD of friends. I used to teach swimming to kids every weekday. I taught and qualified lifeguards for the state of New York. I loved it. But I had to go. You just can't live like that.
 
2020-12-04 1:27:31 PM  
The very premise of the question is flawed, and ultimately very revealing about the person who submitted it.
 
2020-12-04 2:53:13 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
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