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(Reason Magazine)   Two years after the Robert Kraft prostitution sting the rich white men got off and the Asian working girls got screwed   (reason.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Sex industry, Prostitution, Human trafficking, Brothel, Massage, Massage parlor, Orchids of Asia Day Spa, Slavery  
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3589 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 02 Dec 2020 at 10:21 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-02 6:46:28 PM  
Well, to be fair that happened 2 years ago too.
 
2020-12-02 6:55:01 PM  
I wish I were a rich white man.
 
2020-12-02 6:56:55 PM  
Allegedly. LOL!
 
2020-12-02 6:57:43 PM  
WTF.

This whole thing is backwards!
 
2020-12-02 7:08:18 PM  
the women must still pay the state some hefty fees for allegedly facilitating the sexual gratification of massage customers, including New England Patriots' owner Robert Kraft.

So they get in trouble for offering the services that he paid for.

Can we use the same type of ruling to nail fossil fuel companies? Drug companies? Auto companies? Banks? Political parties? I like where this could go.
 
2020-12-02 7:09:39 PM  
Kraft is a rich white man, and his actions did not immediately cause physical or financial harm to richer whiter men. Therefore he did nothing wrong.

'Murica.
 
2020-12-02 7:21:15 PM  
There weren't any dead girls involved.
 
2020-12-02 7:30:18 PM  
Why is reason whining?  That is what libertarianism is.
 
2020-12-02 9:37:20 PM  
Poor Bob, goes in for a perfectly innocent massage, and then, being old and not-so-strong anymore, he is unable to fight off the sexual advances of tiny Asian woman who force, FORCE, him to submit to their oral advances. Fortunately it's all videotaped by the cops so the judge can throw that evidence out thus proven Bob's innocence and the girls guilt. It' s a thing to behold.

I tell ya, Bob will never get a BJ in that town again.
 
2020-12-02 10:04:40 PM  
Buh buh but...the police said these women were victims of human trafficking. They wouldn't have lied to pressure Kraft to take a plea deal, right?
 
2020-12-02 10:23:46 PM  
At least none of them are the farking POTUS.
 
2020-12-02 10:24:39 PM  
Whatever happened to Jeffry Epstein's girls? Apart from the model who married the farking POTUS, of course.
 
2020-12-02 10:27:07 PM  
The best part of the whole saga was the prosecutor arguing, with a straight face, that the only people who should have legal standing to object to illegal surveillance and false warrants are people who haven't been charged with a crime... and therefore aren't in court in the first place.
 
2020-12-02 10:27:48 PM  
I watched the old british TV series The New Statesman recently. In one episode, Robert Maxwell appears (both in old film clip and portrayed by an actor. His infamous yacht, named for daughter Ghislaine also appears.

It's wicked, funny, wicked funny and surprisingly topical.

As I have said, to lose one billionaire "Daddy" may be considered a misfortune, but to lose two looks like carelessness.

I hope she can make it a trifecta.
 
2020-12-02 10:31:04 PM  

Bowen: Buh buh but...the police said these women were victims of human trafficking. They wouldn't have lied to pressure Kraft to take a plea deal, right?


If they were working in a massage parlor it is almost certain they did not know that they were traveling to America to become prostitutes.

Immigration is actaully preety good at figuring out who is alreafy a prostitute back home, which always ends up that the girls who come here legally, and end up bring prostitutes, had no idea that they were being set up to.

They then go along with it because their bosses tell them they will get deported if they go to the police, and thrir other option is poverty and massive debt back home that their relatives can go to prison for not paying off.
 
2020-12-02 10:31:30 PM  
You or me? We're busted. Even if we make the exact same argument in court. Justice in America has to be bought.
 
2020-12-02 10:31:33 PM  
Obvious tag must be in the back getting a happy ending.
 
2020-12-02 10:31:33 PM  

Wanebo: Well, to be fair that happened 2 years ago too.


ZING!
 
d23 [OhFark]
2020-12-02 10:33:20 PM  

Another Government Employee: There weren't any dead girls involved.


That would have doubled the fine the massage parlor had to pay.
 
2020-12-02 10:33:44 PM  
That's why I'm a libertarian... to prevent concentrated wealth and power from overwhelming the weak.  If you disagree, I'll send my hired goons over to beat you.
 
2020-12-02 10:35:43 PM  
I thought it took two to tango
 
2020-12-02 10:37:56 PM  

Curt Blizzah: I thought it took two to tango


Pfft. I tango alone all the time.
 
2020-12-02 10:42:00 PM  
At $5 a pop, my math shows it's going to take 6,314.6 hand jobs to pay that off. I hope they have a good strength and conditioning coach.
 
2020-12-02 10:43:15 PM  

King Something: Kraft is a rich white man, and his actions did not immediately cause physical or financial harm to richer whiter men. Therefore he did nothing wrong.

'Murica.


Yes. Correct.  Now clean up all this poor you've spread all over the thread, or I shall have you thrashed. Post haste.
 
2020-12-02 10:45:05 PM  

Zombie Jesus: Why is reason whining?  That is what libertarianism is.


You've done a fairly amazing job of proving beyond all doubt how stupid you are in an amazingly brief post. Hat's off.
 
2020-12-02 10:46:56 PM  
This is the huge problem with consensual commerce that is illegal. In this case, consenting parties, no one remotely underage, adults, no duress - and holy sh•t, the authorities were threatening to release the sex tape of Robert Kraft publicly. Overt payment for sex is illegal but covert payment for sex - sugar daddies, or trophy wives - are legal. Still money for sex, but with extra steps.

With drugs, again, there are consenting parties engaging in willing commerce. Alcohol sales are legal, but another intoxicant of similar impact is arbitrarily illegal.

I'm not going to argue that either drug use or prostitution are good or bad - it's none of my business as long as it doesn't impact me. I can argue that junk food is bad. Nachos and hamburgers are bad for you - should they be outlawed? Of course not.

There is an immutable moral level to human behavior, much as this is subject to debate and is hard to define. When you have consenting parties engaging in transactions that are literally hurting no one, and actually benefiting the parties, and political leaders allocate law enforcement to bust and publicize it - that's immoral and creates corrosive attitudes towards institutions that are supposed to improve society.

Drug sales? These are a lot of people who can't make money any other way. Of course, any ancillary violence or law breaking should be robustly prosecuted but the consensual commerce that does not hurt anyone? Raiding houses in the middle of the night to suppress a cottage industry is again immoral. Are there horrific things that happen in the drug trade? Yes, and those should be attacked. Just like there are horrific things that happen with the diamond trade ("blood diamonds"). Should diamonds be illegal as a result? I'd say no to that as well.

In order to try and form a more perfect union, to establish justice and secure the blessings of liberty, our laws must be moral.
 
2020-12-02 10:49:02 PM  

feckingmorons: I wish I were a rich white man.


TRADITION!
 
2020-12-02 10:51:19 PM  
Apparently you can be working legally in a profession that isn't actually legal. 

Good job, Reason magazine.
 
2020-12-02 10:53:28 PM  

JungleBoogie: This is the huge problem with consensual commerce that is illegal. In this case, consenting parties, no one remotely underage, adults, no duress - and holy sh•t, the authorities were threatening to release the sex tape of Robert Kraft publicly. Overt payment for sex is illegal but covert payment for sex - sugar daddies, or trophy wives - are legal. Still money for sex, but with extra steps.

With drugs, again, there are consenting parties engaging in willing commerce. Alcohol sales are legal, but another intoxicant of similar impact is arbitrarily illegal.

I'm not going to argue that either drug use or prostitution are good or bad - it's none of my business as long as it doesn't impact me. I can argue that junk food is bad. Nachos and hamburgers are bad for you - should they be outlawed? Of course not.

There is an immutable moral level to human behavior, much as this is subject to debate and is hard to define. When you have consenting parties engaging in transactions that are literally hurting no one, and actually benefiting the parties, and political leaders allocate law enforcement to bust and publicize it - that's immoral and creates corrosive attitudes towards institutions that are supposed to improve society.

Drug sales? These are a lot of people who can't make money any other way. Of course, any ancillary violence or law breaking should be robustly prosecuted but the consensual commerce that does not hurt anyone? Raiding houses in the middle of the night to suppress a cottage industry is again immoral. Are there horrific things that happen in the drug trade? Yes, and those should be attacked. Just like there are horrific things that happen with the diamond trade ("blood diamonds"). Should diamonds be illegal as a result? I'd say no to that as well.

In order to try and form a more perfect union, to establish justice and secure the blessings of liberty, our laws must be moral.


Difficulty: Prostitution is very often paired with modern slavery - minorities and immigrants are frequent targets of such evil.

'B-b-but slavery is already illega-'

Right. So make it that any free person who has sex with a slave is also guilty of rape.
 
2020-12-02 10:54:51 PM  
NO!

No! No no no no!

What the fark!
 
2020-12-02 11:03:27 PM  
Power comes in many forms. Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler were not rich when they grabbed "Power". Yet they caused uncountable millions to be killed.
 
2020-12-02 11:03:39 PM  

winedrinkingman: Bowen: Buh buh but...the police said these women were victims of human trafficking. They wouldn't have lied to pressure Kraft to take a plea deal, right?
-----------------
If they were working in a massage parlor it is almost certain they did not know that they were traveling to America to become prostitutes.

Immigration is actaully preety good at figuring out who is alreafy a prostitute back home, which always ends up that the girls who come here legally, and end up bring prostitutes, had no idea that they were being set up to.

They then go along with it because their bosses tell them they will get deported if they go to the police, and thrir other option is poverty and massive debt back home that their relatives can go to prison for not paying off.


I don't know that one template can be applied to everyone who immigrates to another country to be a masseuse or a prostitute. The scenario you've provided with the high debt and prison time - that's duress. It's almost like kidnapping, or human trafficking.

However, they could also be doing it because it's the only way they know to get the standard of living they want with the type of job they want. That is also legitimate scenario, and not just for immigrants. There have been multiple high profile native madams busted in the US. There was that high profile one with high profile clients who committed suicide rather than losing all her money and spending decades in jail.

Again, horrific things can happen in the drug trade, or the diamond trade. Don't conflate the horrific thing with the transaction/act in question.
 
2020-12-02 11:08:14 PM  

Ponzholio: At $5 a pop, my math shows it's going to take 6,314.6 hand jobs to pay that off. I hope they have a good strength and conditioning coach.


What place can you get a hand job for $5?

JungleBoogie: Drug sales? These are a lot of people who can't make money any other way.


Who can't money any other way?
 
2020-12-02 11:13:38 PM  
Yet Reason.com loves the idea of allowing all that economic power being accumulated into the hands of the few, like Bob Kraft, which allows him to pay off an endless string of $2,000/hr lawyers that few in this nation could afford for even a handful of hours (if any), so they can shut the f*ck up with their astonishing lack of integrity.
 
2020-12-02 11:15:12 PM  

Ponzholio: At $5 a pop, my math shows it's going to take 6,314.6 hand jobs to pay that off. I hope they have a good strength and conditioning coach.


You get $5??!
 
2020-12-02 11:17:41 PM  
*every time a libertarian reports on something not working favorably, that libertarian ideology not only fails to mitigate but almost always aggravates*

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-02 11:19:57 PM  
"I liked the handjob so much, I bought the company."
  - Victor Kiam
 
2020-12-02 11:22:51 PM  

gameshowhost: Yet Reason.com loves the idea of allowing all that economic power being accumulated into the hands of the few, like Bob Kraft, which allows him to pay off an endless string of $2,000/hr lawyers that few in this nation could afford for even a handful of hours (if any), so they can shut the f*ck up with their astonishing lack of integrity.


Or you could legalize prostitution and neither Kraft or the sex workers would have to hire attorneys and deal with the morality police.
 
2020-12-02 11:22:59 PM  

winedrinkingman: Bowen: Buh buh but...the police said these women were victims of human trafficking. They wouldn't have lied to pressure Kraft to take a plea deal, right?

If they were working in a massage parlor it is almost certain they did not know that they were traveling to America to become prostitutes.

Immigration is actaully preety good at figuring out who is alreafy a prostitute back home, which always ends up that the girls who come here legally, and end up bring prostitutes, had no idea that they were being set up to.

They then go along with it because their bosses tell them they will get deported if they go to the police, and thrir other option is poverty and massive debt back home that their relatives can go to prison for not paying off.


They know.  These women are not naive 21 year olds. They are in their 30's, 40's, 50's.
 
2020-12-02 11:24:56 PM  
article: 'Florida Masseuse Ordered to Pay $31,573 After 'Soliciting' Robert Kraft To 'Commit Prostitution''

oh ffs.

/ You all are right; FSM tipped the continent & all the nuts rolled to Florida
 
2020-12-02 11:28:46 PM  

Eightballjacket: gameshowhost: Yet Reason.com loves the idea of allowing all that economic power being accumulated into the hands of the few, like Bob Kraft, which allows him to pay off an endless string of $2,000/hr lawyers that few in this nation could afford for even a handful of hours (if any), so they can shut the f*ck up with their astonishing lack of integrity.

Or you could legalize prostitution and neither Kraft or the sex workers would have to hire attorneys and deal with the morality police.


Gee, progressives have only been seeking that since before the LP was even a thing.

In the LP way of doing things, you're still left with the uberwealthy being able to buy their way out of the legal system.  And it only keeps getting worse since the LP loves itself the unmitigated accumulation of wealth into the hands of the fewest.
 
2020-12-02 11:33:46 PM  

smokewon: NO!

No! No no no no!

What the fark!


This is the opposite of funny. This proves that racism and sexism and every other -ism is alive and well.
 
2020-12-02 11:36:03 PM  
JungleBoogie

You write well.

Some of my forbears were coal miners from Wales. Goons showed up one day and told them, "If you come with us you will never have to dig coal in Wales ever again". They then indentured them and shipped them of to America. Where they then were taken to Kentucky to dig for coal, never again having to dig for coal in Wales.
 
2020-12-02 11:39:21 PM  

gameshowhost: Eightballjacket: gameshowhost: Yet Reason.com loves the idea of allowing all that economic power being accumulated into the hands of the few, like Bob Kraft, which allows him to pay off an endless string of $2,000/hr lawyers that few in this nation could afford for even a handful of hours (if any), so they can shut the f*ck up with their astonishing lack of integrity.

Or you could legalize prostitution and neither Kraft or the sex workers would have to hire attorneys and deal with the morality police.

Gee, progressives have only been seeking that since before the LP was even a thing.

In the LP way of doing things, you're still left with the uberwealthy being able to buy their way out of the legal system.  And it only keeps getting worse since the LP loves itself the unmitigated accumulation of wealth into the hands of the fewest.


These are different political philosophies which incorporate different levels and areas of permissiveness. I don't want to rehash the political compass / spectrum thing or anything, but basically the Libertarian-type mindset just incorporates a laissez-faire mindset into everything. Basically the idea is to not regulate past the bare minimum and allow maximum individual freedom, at least in theory.

I'm sure everyone knows this already, but these philosophies are being compared as if they're similar things when they're not. They're fundamentally different ideas with completely different goals in mind.
 
2020-12-02 11:45:38 PM  

JungleBoogie: This is the huge problem with consensual commerce that is illegal. In this case, consenting parties, no one remotely underage, adults, no duress - and holy sh•t, the authorities were threatening to release the sex tape of Robert Kraft publicly. Overt payment for sex is illegal but covert payment for sex - sugar daddies, or trophy wives - are legal. Still money for sex, but with extra steps.


Cop: *bursts into room* Stop, you're under arrest for soliciting prostitution!
Man: This isn't prostitution.
Cop: You just paid that woman for sex!
Man: Yes, but *gestures to camera* we're filming it, so technically it's a porno.
Cop: Oh, well that's ok then.
Man: Remember kids, she's not a whore if she's an actress!
 
2020-12-02 11:50:22 PM  
I wonder what Kraft is going to do with all those bucks? I know I'd be celebrating.
 
2020-12-02 11:52:52 PM  

Point02GPA: JungleBoogie

You write well.

Some of my forbears were coal miners from Wales. Goons showed up one day and told them, "If you come with us you will never have to dig coal in Wales ever again". They then indentured them and shipped them of to America. Where they then were taken to Kentucky to dig for coal, never again having to dig for coal in Wales.


I wouldn't want to dig colon whales either.
 
2020-12-02 11:57:41 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I wonder what Kraft is going to do with all those bucks? I know I'd be celebrating.


At his age he should be celibate.
 
2020-12-03 12:08:20 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Point02GPA: JungleBoogie

You write well.

Some of my forbears were coal miners from Wales. Goons showed up one day and told them, "If you come with us you will never have to dig coal in Wales ever again". They then indentured them and shipped them of to America. Where they then were taken to Kentucky to dig for coal, never again having to dig for coal in Wales.

I wouldn't want to dig colon whales either.


If you have a harpoon you can get a better job over at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem.
 
2020-12-03 12:57:11 AM  

gameshowhost: Yet Reason.com loves the idea of allowing all that economic power being accumulated into the hands of the few, like Bob Kraft, which allows him to pay off an endless string of $2,000/hr lawyers that few in this nation could afford for even a handful of hours (if any), so they can shut the f*ck up with their astonishing lack of integrity.


FWIW the other johns in this got off as well.  Kraft and his high powered lawyers getting the tapes supressed meant there wasnt any evidence against them either.  Either way in the end it was the women who got farked.

/also dnrtfa
 
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