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6239 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Dec 2020 at 9:48 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-12-02 10:52:45 AM  
8 votes:

SolderGlob: The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other.


Have you considered that instead of actually trying to pass legislation in order to enact the things that they want they should "Just do something?"
 
2020-12-02 10:01:17 AM  
8 votes:

MattytheMouse: Diogenes: MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.

It's been done.  Expanded drone use, surveillance?   Pish.  Obama wore a tan suit and had odd choices in condiments.

Do you have The Shine, too?


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Don't be readin' my mind between 4 and 5, that's Willie's time!
 
2020-12-02 9:51:04 AM  
8 votes:

Diogenes: MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.

It's been done.  Expanded drone use, surveillance?   Pish.  Obama wore a tan suit and had odd choices in condiments.


Do you have The Shine, too?
 
2020-12-02 10:07:17 AM  
7 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

Specifically what would that leadership do differently?


They would act instead of looking for Republican approval before they say or do anything.

This is not complicated and it's been the answer for thread after thread after thread after thread and still you act as though this question has never been answered. You're not asking it in good faith anymore, you really don't want an answer you just want doing nothing and pointing at Republicans to be an acceptable style of governing. It's not. It doesn't work. It's failed. And yet you need justification after justification after justification before even considering doing something a little bit differently.

Stop asking bad faith questions that have been answered time and time again. You have your answer, now get to work or stop asking the question every goddamn thread, it's getting tiresome to see people act stupid when they're (I assume) not.
 
2020-12-02 10:03:24 AM  
7 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


The same one Bernie had.  Well, said he had.

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2020-12-02 10:37:04 AM  
6 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.

It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.

It does, especially when it's people who claim to agree with my goals who are the ones preventing them from being realized.

But you see your not helping at all. You are supervising a construction site, telling all the builders they are doing it wrong without offering any insight into how to do it better.


I've offered specifics, you offer nonsense. Have a good one.
 
2020-12-02 9:41:42 AM  
5 votes:
I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.
 
2020-12-02 9:17:55 AM  
5 votes:
Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.
 
2020-12-02 11:22:13 AM  
4 votes:

Sophont: hugadarn: Sophont: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.

The problem is either you don't believe any of that, or your extremely lazy, or extremely cowardly.  Because if I believed what you are saying; I ...

It's funny how the supposed champions of progress always resort to conservative namecalling when they can't defend their arguments.


Snowflake.
 
2020-12-02 10:08:10 AM  
4 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?


Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.
 
2020-12-02 2:32:03 PM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.


The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.
 
2020-12-02 11:30:08 AM  
3 votes:

Sliding Carp: The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.

They have the power to unleash AOC and the other progressives.  By stifling them, the status quo becomes the most liberal  possible point in the discourse, and things can only move to the right, little by little, ratcheting along as every step is always to the right, and at every step the national Democratic leadership builds a wall at exactly where we are and calls it "the center."


What does "unleash AOC" mean specifically? How specifically are she and other progressives being "stifled?"

Difficulty: moderate Democrats disagreeing with progressive Democrats on things != "stifling" them.
 
2020-12-02 11:28:30 AM  
3 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: hugadarn: if I believed what you are saying; I wouldn't be at work, waiting for a part to come in, dickin around on fark; I'd be plotting a revolution because democracy doesn't work.

hugadarn: Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

"If you're not out in a field plotting a coup, your concerns about democracy are invalid"


That's Trumper shiat.


No you have three choices. Work in the system. Work outside the system, or do nothing. It appears some have chosen the last one but want to complain about us doing the first. I respect the second.
 
2020-12-02 11:19:41 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.


Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.
 
2020-12-02 11:04:25 AM  
3 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: AdmirableSnackbar: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Hell, they can't even figure out why they're mad at me other than insufficient loyalty and deference to The Party.


Brother, I'll be straight with you, I find you frequently exasperating myself, but here's how I read your schtick:

The Republican Party is beyond redemption.  There is no floor to their corruption, hate, greed, and treachery.  There is no point in harping on them, because they are a black hole of awfulness unworthy of debate.

The Democratic Party, by contrast, is deeply flawed, but not beyond redemption.  We argue about what Democrats should do far more than Republicans because the ostensible ideals of the party are worth fighting for.

You complain about Democrats because we can be better.  Republicans cannot, and thus it is pointless to argue about them.


Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.
 
2020-12-02 10:58:38 AM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?


Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.
 
2020-12-02 10:55:44 AM  
3 votes:

The Homer Tax: When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith.


Because it's not.
He answers the question every single time, and you pretend he didn't because.... why?

Democrats need to stop worrying about what Republicans in Alabama are going to think before they commit to any plan of action. They need to stop being worried Sean Hannity is going to go on the air and call them socialists. They need to stop moderating their position to appease the opposition before they even get to the negotiating table, only for the opposition to oppose them out of spite, rather than any actual objections to their position.

You'll say something like "They need to represent everyone." when they try and concern themselves with the support of people who will never think of Democrats as anything other than baby-killing communists. But working in everyone's best interests isn't the same as representing everyone, and the Democrats consistently fail at the former while claiming to pursue the latter.

Stop getting cowed from enacting anything because some moron pipes up 'How do you pay for it?" when we both have enough money to pay for shiat and the question isn't even being asked in good faith.
 
2020-12-02 10:47:38 AM  
3 votes:
Republicans need to transition from denying the Biden presidency to actively obstructing it.  For the good of the country.
 
2020-12-02 10:42:13 AM  
3 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,

You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.


We're talking about too broad a topic to offer specifics on any one thing. Ultimately it comes down to Democrats need to make an effort to make things happen, not ceding every argument to Republicans and letting Republicans control every conversation, as Schumer is doing here.

There's nothing specific in this case to offer except "do what you want, fark what Republicans want."

But even that's just too much for you to comprehend, so I can't imagine discussing policy implementation to you. It would take centuries and you're not worth the time.
 
2020-12-02 10:39:57 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.

You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.

Ok I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt, stop being useless if you ever want to be taken seriously.


Benefit of the doubt for what? You like living under trickle-down economics? You like when police lynch Black people? You like not having basic services that citizens of every developed country enjoy?

I'm done giving YOU the benefit of the doubt, ultimately you don't want to change any of those things.
 
2020-12-02 10:35:51 AM  
3 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?


No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.
 
2020-12-02 10:31:29 AM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.


So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?
 
2020-12-02 10:26:11 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.


You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.
 
2020-12-02 10:15:41 AM  
3 votes:

The Homer Tax: MattytheMouse: And they should keep it up

Then why are you complaining?


Because despite all my rage, I'm still just a mouse in a cage.
 
2020-12-02 10:14:33 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.


Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?
 
2020-12-02 10:05:05 AM  
3 votes:
MattytheMouse:

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

But that's...literally what Schumer is doing here? He's calling them out on their bullshiat.
 
2020-12-02 10:02:48 AM  
3 votes:

Rambino: MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.

On a sidenote, I'm all about exploring interesting fetishes, but I just can't get behind vore. Not kink-shaming, but this one honestly makes me uncomfortable. Which is saying something given the shiat I put up with. *sigh-fap*


Trust me: every other voraphile I know has a crisis of conscience over the fact that they get off to vore. Usually, it's resolved when they realize that actually eating people and/or things Jeffery Dahmer-style is still repugnant to them.
 
2020-12-02 9:48:17 AM  
3 votes:

MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.


It's been done.  Expanded drone use, surveillance?   Pish.  Obama wore a tan suit and had odd choices in condiments.
 
2020-12-02 4:53:44 PM  
2 votes:

Graffito: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

Absolutely nobody thinks that.  Exaggeration doesn't help.  Whining about democrats doesn't help.  Why aren't you and your Bernie Brethren just "doing something?"  Why aren't they bringing about Medicare for All and student loan forgiveness?  They should just pass the legislation without caring what democrats or repubs think.

What's that you say?  They don't have the votes?  They don't hold enough seats in congress?  Well, figure it out!  That's their job.


You're a sociopath.
 
2020-12-02 2:54:39 PM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.


AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


I'm not the one that came into a thread about Republicans being shiatheads and and said let's ignore the Republicans being shiatheads and then started blaming Democrats for Republicans being shiatheads.
 
2020-12-02 12:15:12 PM  
2 votes:

Utnapishtim: If that's the case why do they need to "grab the narrative"? It's preaching to the choir. They are only losing the narrative battle because of the bubble.


Because, since you haven't noticed, the narrative outside of the Republican bubble is the same as the narrative inside the bubble. And that's true only because there is no competing narrative anywhere. Democrats don't have plans. They don't have ideas. They don't even have values.

For instance, in the Democratic primary this year, Democrats were spouting Republican talking points against policies that Democratic voters prefer almost universally. That contributed to the decades-long narrative that universal health care is dangerous, irresponsible, and completely unworkable. Which in turn made people vote against it, and now we won't get it for another decade at the earliest.

That's what you're supporting here, and it's not helpful in any way, shape, or form.
 
2020-12-02 11:27:26 AM  
2 votes:
What I find endlessly hilarious are the right-wing assholes cosplaying as "moderate progressives" as they decry leftists for "not doing anything" in their attempts to denigrate and harass leftists into silence.

Making these posts, having these conversations is doing something. The internet is the modern Town Square and we're here standing on our soapboxes, adding our voices, and doing our best to shape the conversation.

That us how we win. We keep talking. We convince more and more people that we're right - because we are. Eventually we get enough people on-side that we take over.

That's the only way real change ever happens.
 
2020-12-02 11:14:36 AM  
2 votes:

BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.


I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.
 
2020-12-02 11:09:44 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

So I can't do all of that AND post on Fark about how intransigent Democrats are?

Why do you assume that I'm not calling my POS representative and saying the same things to them? That I'm not also working with and supporting activist groups? Some of us can walk and chew gum.

Nothing you're doing is working. Whining about the fact that I've noticed that, while you don't really seem to care, doesn't solve anything.

What could your representative possibly do with anything you have written here. How is "do something dammit" constructive.


My representative is not on Fark. We're discussing shiat here, not plotting actions because they're not our actions to take.

You think you're on the coaching staff of your favorite football team, don't you? You think that their performance is tied directly to your personal actions and decisions, right? That's the level of idiocy and anal-retentive stupidity you're showing here.
 
2020-12-02 11:07:42 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans

We need to defeat the Republicans in the Democratic Party, especially the ones in leadership position.

how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?

It doesn't, because that's their job. It's not my job to help them, certainly not when they act deliberately helpless and look to the GOP to make everything right.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy and what your "job" is in it. Hint: it's not over when you cast your vote.


And here I am, exhorting Democrats - for whom I voted - to represent their constituents better than they have in decades and you're arguing in bad faith that they should not do that.
 
2020-12-02 11:02:40 AM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans

We need to defeat the Republicans in the Democratic Party, especially the ones in leadership position.

how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?

It doesn't, because that's their job. It's not my job to help them, certainly not when they act deliberately helpless and look to the GOP to make everything right.


I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy and what your "job" is in it. Hint: it's not over when you cast your vote.
 
2020-12-02 11:02:21 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.


So I can't do all of that AND post on Fark about how intransigent Democrats are?

Why do you assume that I'm not calling my POS representative and saying the same things to them? That I'm not also working with and supporting activist groups? Some of us can walk and chew gum.

Nothing you're doing is working. Whining about the fact that I've noticed that, while you don't really seem to care, doesn't solve anything.
 
2020-12-02 11:01:17 AM  
2 votes:

Sophont: Stop getting cowed from enacting anything because some moron pipes up 'How do you pay for it?" when we both have enough money to pay for shiat and the question isn't even being asked in good faith.


You can't "Enact" legislation without it passing the Senate. This is literally the entire point. In order to pass the Senate you need 60 votes for cloture. The question is ENTIRELY in good faith because it acknowledges the reality of our government and how it operates.

I agree with what you say about negotiation and Hannity and all of that, but it doesn't change how our government fundamentally operates. Operating within the confines of reality is not a bad faith position to take, it's literally the exact opposite.
 
2020-12-02 10:58:09 AM  
2 votes:

Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: So your specific plan is

You're like the 5th person in this thread to use this rhetorical tactic in bad faith. You should get some sort of prize.

I'm one of many people to point out that nothing you've offered up works within the frame of our government. Don't reflect on that though, everyone else is the asshole.


You know how Republicans do things - terrible things, but that's not related to the point - and then only talk about what they did or want to do in good, favorable terms and refuse to acknowledge anything bad? And you notice how they work to change public opinion on things towards what they want to do? Start there. Figure that shiat out, Democrats, and stop letting Republicans dictate the terms of the conversation because doing that allows Republicans to shape public opinion and crushes the Democrats' ability to change public opinion.

And then when you get that far, once you get power, you farking USE IT. There was no reason for Democrats to negotiate away parts of the ACA to make Republicans happy, only for Republicans to all vote against it and then use the weaknesses they created in the bill to essentially neuter it. Democrats should have gone full universal health care and then bragged about it instead of letting Republicans win in the end out of some sense of nobility.

I'm sorry if I'm not putting every step of the plan together for you, I'm not a member of Congress or part of the federal government. There's a lot to do to get anything done, I'm saying when you get an opportunity, make it happen instead of letting Republicans control what gets done. Is that too hard for you to understand? It's a strategy and an attitude, the specific uses of the levers of power change from instance to instance. And you know that, or should if you're actually being serious. So either you're not serious about this or you're not discussing this in good faith.
 
2020-12-02 10:50:03 AM  
2 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.


Hell, they can't even figure out why they're mad at me other than insufficient loyalty and deference to The Party.
 
2020-12-02 10:48:51 AM  
2 votes:
Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.
 
2020-12-02 10:42:19 AM  
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: The GOP can:

1. Go fark themselves
2. Go fark themselves
and finally
3. Go fark themselves.

Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.


Careful - If you say that three times into a mirror, you summon Mitch McConnell.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-02 10:23:47 AM  
2 votes:

Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.

It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.


It does, especially when it's people who claim to agree with my goals who are the ones preventing them from being realized.
 
2020-12-02 10:12:54 AM  
2 votes:

MattytheMouse: And they should keep it up


Then why are you complaining?
 
2020-12-02 10:12:30 AM  
2 votes:

MattytheMouse: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.


I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.  Look, Republicans are good at lying and good at cognitive dissonance. I dont expect calling it out will shame them into changing their ways or convince their supporters of the truth, but its still an important exercise.  Yes, we should do more; be more explicit; but I have never heard Snackbar offer one actionable suggestion.
 
2020-12-02 10:00:39 AM  
2 votes:

rewind2846: Someone(s) in Trump's circle of hell is being investigated for bribery in return for presidential pardons RIGHT FARKING NOW, something that likely has NEVER been done in US history. And republicans have said nothing, as usual.

Republicans, I want to hear neither Jack nor Shat of what you have to say. Not one goddamn peep from your faces. Just STFU for the next four years and forever about "scandals". And f'k your pearls too.


They "haven't seen those reports" so how can they have an opinion on that.
 
2020-12-02 10:00:04 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.
 
2020-12-02 9:59:47 AM  
2 votes:

MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.


On a sidenote, I'm all about exploring interesting fetishes, but I just can't get behind vore. Not kink-shaming, but this one honestly makes me uncomfortable. Which is saying something given the shiat I put up with. *sigh-fap*
 
2020-12-02 9:56:31 AM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.
 
2020-12-02 3:53:31 PM  
1 vote:
AdmirableSnackbar:

Everyone in this thread has been waiting for you to provide an example of what you want the Democrats to do. Any concrete example.

The best I've seen can be summarized as "be like the Republicans, but don't be like the Republicans," which is not helpful.

I've never seen you offer anything but sealioning and obfuscation, so we have to conclude you're full of it.
 
2020-12-02 2:59:04 PM  
1 vote:

Sophont: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Actual progressives aren't going to keep letting moderates be the arbiters of what is "justified", especially not after literal decades of no criticism at all being accepted as "justified" no matter the evidence presented.

You can't keep droning on that progressive ideas only get support in the deepest, bluest districts when there's evidence and examples of the exact opposite being true. If the polls showing M4A is popular with 60+% of the electorate and 80+% of Democrats isn't enough, the candidates running on M4A and GND winning in purple districts (the chart), or Florida voting for Trump and a $15 min/wage isn't going to convince you, you're making a conscious effort not to be convinced.


That's not my stance at all. In fact, no where on this site have I ever made this argument. You're bringing all your grievances against the "Centrists" and "Moderates" and applying them to anyone that doesn't toe your line. It's pathetic and I respect you enough to know that this is beneath you.
 
2020-12-02 2:56:12 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

I'm not the one that came into a thread about Republicans being shiatheads and and said let's ignore the Republicans being shiatheads and then started blaming Democrats for Republicans being shiatheads.


I didn't say ignore the Republicans being shiatheads. I'm saying ignore the Republican shiatheads when they whine. Farking kick their ass instead of trying to placate them.

I remember when you whined at me for hours for treating you like a disingenuous centrist. Stop acting like one.
 
2020-12-02 2:40:58 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.


Actual progressives aren't going to keep letting moderates be the arbiters of what is "justified", especially not after literal decades of no criticism at all being accepted as "justified" no matter the evidence presented.

You can't keep droning on that progressive ideas only get support in the deepest, bluest districts when there's evidence and examples of the exact opposite being true. If the polls showing M4A is popular with 60+% of the electorate and 80+% of Democrats isn't enough, the candidates running on M4A and GND winning in purple districts (the chart), or Florida voting for Trump and a $15 min/wage isn't going to convince you, you're making a conscious effort not to be convinced.
 
2020-12-02 12:32:22 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.


Oh no! One less whiny Stein voter. How will the nation recover!
 
2020-12-02 12:15:29 PM  
1 vote:

The Homer Tax: Sliding Carp: The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.

They have the power to unleash AOC and the other progressives.  By stifling them, the status quo becomes the most liberal  possible point in the discourse, and things can only move to the right, little by little, ratcheting along as every step is always to the right, and at every step the national Democratic leadership builds a wall at exactly where we are and calls it "the center."

What does "unleash AOC" mean specifically? How specifically are she and other progressives being "stifled?"

Difficulty: moderate Democrats disagreeing with progressive Democrats on things != "stifling" them.



It only works one way.  Because leftists are the underdogs they believe it's their right and DUTY to attack and obstruct other liberals & progressives.  But if you question them or refuse to roll over and do what they want you're stifling them, which they see as justification for more attacks and obstruction.

They want conflict more than anything else.
 
2020-12-02 11:52:53 AM  
1 vote:

Jake Havechek: Republicans are namby pamby little crybabies when they don't get their way.  Stems from upbringing.  Their parents are probably assholes.


Lorraine you ever have a kid who acts that's way I'll disown you
 
2020-12-02 11:44:58 AM  
1 vote:

Utnapishtim: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.

Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?

Because it is likely impossible. That's why people are asking for specifics, they don't see how it can work. The right wing media bubble will never allow anything but the right wing narrative through to it's consumers, and the reality based media ends up spending so much time covering the stories generated by the right wing media, that nothing else can get through. And even if it did, its fake news to them anyway. That is not the fault of the Democrats. There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.


The idea isn't to pierce the right wing bubble. The idea is to stop basing policy decision on what people in the bubble are going to think about it and go ahead "Just do something." without their input.
If it doesn't reach them, nothing of value was lost. No change from the status quo. Meanwhile, those who aren't in the bubble might see something they like, and the people in the bubble might still benefit from policies even if they don't support the people enacting them, and it will do more to pierce the bubble than any attempt to placate them.
 
2020-12-02 11:32:35 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.

Well maybe its not worth dying for its borders or its flag but it is the country that has most of my loved ones and all of my stuff so I'm willing to fight for it.

Then I guess it's time to get your rifle and get out there, tough guy.


When I run out of other options I would. I dont believe it will ever come to that. But if let's say trump went full military coup.
 
2020-12-02 11:25:09 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.


Well maybe its not worth dying for its borders or its flag but it is the country that has most of my loved ones and all of my stuff so I'm willing to fight for it.
 
2020-12-02 11:19:11 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: Sophont: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.

The problem is either you don't believe any of that, or your extremely lazy, or extremely cowardly.  Because if I believed what you are saying; I ...


It's funny how the supposed champions of progress always resort to conservative namecalling when they can't defend their arguments.
 
2020-12-02 11:16:16 AM  
1 vote:

PlaidJaguar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.

You can't reform a system specifically designed to allow an entrenched minority to prevent reform.


Yes. That's exactly the problem. The GOP has come to the realization that they don't actually have to do their jobs when they aren't in power and it benefits them not to do their jobs in the minority. Democrats don't have that luxury because if/when they don't do the exact thing some people want they lose elections. Quite the conundrum.
 
2020-12-02 11:15:01 AM  
1 vote:

Sophont: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.


The problem is either you don't believe any of that, or your extremely lazy, or extremely cowardly.  Because if I believed what you are saying; I wouldn't be at work, waiting for a part to come in, dickin around on fark; I'd be plotting a revolution because democracy doesn't work.
 
2020-12-02 11:07:52 AM  
1 vote:

Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.


Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.
 
2020-12-02 11:07:25 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.


From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.
 
2020-12-02 11:05:05 AM  
1 vote:

abb3w: The only thing Republicans seem to have wanted at the time was to stop the Democrats from doing anything. Being obstructive is easy; being constructive seems more difficult.


The GOP literally had all three branches of the government, including both houses for two years and *couldn't even overturn the ACA* which was their single issue in the 6 years since it's inception. That should demonstrate just how disingenuous the argument "JUST DO THINGS!" is when viewed within the context of how our government actually operates.
 
2020-12-02 11:03:10 AM  
1 vote:

The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other.

Have you considered that instead of actually trying to pass legislation in order to enact the things that they want they should "Just do something?"


I have actually. Usually the scenarios playing out in my head end with the Judiciary laughing the Democrats out of the courtroom while telling them to follow the law when passing legislation.
 
2020-12-02 11:01:36 AM  
1 vote:

Sophont: The Homer Tax: When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith.

Because it's not.
He answers the question every single time, and you pretend he didn't because.... why?

Democrats need to stop worrying about what Republicans in Alabama are going to think before they commit to any plan of action. They need to stop being worried Sean Hannity is going to go on the air and call them socialists. They need to stop moderating their position to appease the opposition before they even get to the negotiating table, only for the opposition to oppose them out of spite, rather than any actual objections to their position.

You'll say something like "They need to represent everyone." when they try and concern themselves with the support of people who will never think of Democrats as anything other than baby-killing communists. But working in everyone's best interests isn't the same as representing everyone, and the Democrats consistently fail at the former while claiming to pursue the latter.

Stop getting cowed from enacting anything because some moron pipes up 'How do you pay for it?" when we both have enough money to pay for shiat and the question isn't even being asked in good faith.


If you just believe hard enough, you can overcome trivial barriers like being a minority in the Senate. Mitch McConnell will be so impressed by the way the dems didn't worry about what a Republican voter in Alabama thinks that he'll just step out of the way in the face of our big dick energy. But Democrats wont even try it!
 
2020-12-02 10:52:09 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.


At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?
 
2020-12-02 10:51:47 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: So your specific plan is

You're like the 5th person in this thread to use this rhetorical tactic in bad faith. You should get some sort of prize.


I'm one of many people to point out that nothing you've offered up works within the frame of our government. Don't reflect on that though, everyone else is the asshole.
 
2020-12-02 10:51:17 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.

You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.

Ok I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt, stop being useless if you ever want to be taken seriously.

Benefit of the doubt for what? You like living under trickle-down economics? You like when police lynch Black people? You like not having basic services that citizens of every developed country enjoy?

I'm done giving YOU the benefit of the doubt, ultimately you don't want to change any of those things.


Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.
 
2020-12-02 10:49:02 AM  
1 vote:

The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.


Pretty much. It also makes it unreasonable to sit here and pre-emptively attack the Democrats for not getting anything done when the opposition is willing to shut the entire government down for the next four years.
 
2020-12-02 10:48:53 AM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.


That's why you don't negotiate with the GOP. You work to defeat them and do what the fark you want. You know this, right, and are just putting on an act here, right? I certainly hope so.
 
2020-12-02 10:47:37 AM  
1 vote:

Spartapuss: So your specific plan is


You're like the 5th person in this thread to use this rhetorical tactic in bad faith. You should get some sort of prize.
 
2020-12-02 10:47:06 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.


I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.
 
2020-12-02 10:45:46 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,

You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.

We're talking about too broad a topic to offer specifics on any one thing. Ultimately it comes down to Democrats need to make an effort to make things happen, not ceding every argument to Republicans and letting Republicans control every conversation, as Schumer is doing here.

There's nothing specific in this case to offer except "do what you want, fark what Republicans want."

But even that's just too much for you to comprehend, so I can't imagine discussing policy implementation to you. It would take centuries and you're not worth the time.


So your specific plan is revolution. All right then! I can get behind that.
 
2020-12-02 10:44:07 AM  
1 vote:

bluejeansonfire: HotWingConspiracy: Democrats still don't understand the game.

It's either that, or they understand it just fine because they're controlled opposition paid to pretend to want better things but counted on to take a dive when it matters.


It's pretty evident that the latter is the case. Has been for quite a while.
 
2020-12-02 10:39:57 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,


You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.
 
2020-12-02 10:39:05 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess it's "cede all power to Bernie Sanders."
 
2020-12-02 10:37:59 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.

You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.


Ok I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt, stop being useless if you ever want to be taken seriously.
 
2020-12-02 10:37:59 AM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.


So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.
 
2020-12-02 10:35:26 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.

It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.

It does, especially when it's people who claim to agree with my goals who are the ones preventing them from being realized.


But you see your not helping at all. You are supervising a construction site, telling all the builders they are doing it wrong without offering any insight into how to do it better.
 
2020-12-02 10:27:00 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: They would act instead of looking for Republican approval before they say or do anything.


"Just act" isn't a thing in the American Legislative system, this is the whole point. You're screaming "Just do things!" over and over again, but that's not how any of this works.

The specific question is: do what, and how. These are important questions. They are questions that are asked in good faith, you're just upset because you don't have an answer.

AdmirableSnackbar: Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.


What specifically  did republicans get accomplished unilaterally when they only had the house but not the senate or presidency? Top three legislative accomplishment's of the GOP during this time.
 
2020-12-02 10:25:07 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?


Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.
 
2020-12-02 10:15:44 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?


It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.
 
2020-12-02 10:14:06 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.


So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?
 
2020-12-02 10:03:40 AM  
1 vote:
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-12-02 10:01:29 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.
 
2020-12-02 9:46:12 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


Firing squad?
 
2020-12-02 9:30:18 AM  
1 vote:
Republicans are namby pamby little crybabies when they don't get their way.  Stems from upbringing.  Their parents are probably assholes.
 
2020-12-02 9:28:33 AM  
1 vote:
The GOP can:

1. Go fark themselves
2. Go fark themselves
and finally
3. Go fark themselves.

Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.
 
2020-12-02 9:17:17 AM  
1 vote:

cherryl taggart: Need to get Ted Lieu's team on it.  Get them to start pulling up video and audio clips, of each one smirking off whatever equates.  Since we have verified that there's always a tweet, and every accusation is a confession, there's a treasure trove to be flung in the face of whoever is pearl clutching.

Before allowing whatever Congresscritter is trying to get in your camera or microphone, pull up your handy file of clips from 2015-2020.  Have your production assistant waiting to hear whatever is the pearl of the moment, and as soon as that critter takes a breath, roll the archive material.


I was thinking this with regard to Neera Tanden.

Every time someone talks about her tweets they just need to pull up a clip of a reporter asking them about Trump's.

What kills is me is that many of his hits were about Republicans themselves.
 
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