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(Twitter)   The Republican pearl-clutching has begun   (twitter.com) divider line
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6248 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Dec 2020 at 9:48 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-12-02 9:11:34 AM  
156 votes:
Need to get Ted Lieu's team on it.  Get them to start pulling up video and audio clips, of each one smirking off whatever equates.  Since we have verified that there's always a tweet, and every accusation is a confession, there's a treasure trove to be flung in the face of whoever is pearl clutching.

Before allowing whatever Congresscritter is trying to get in your camera or microphone, pull up your handy file of clips from 2015-2020.  Have your production assistant waiting to hear whatever is the pearl of the moment, and as soon as that critter takes a breath, roll the archive material.
 
2020-12-02 9:17:55 AM  
89 votes:
Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.
 
2020-12-02 9:28:33 AM  
82 votes:
The GOP can:

1. Go fark themselves
2. Go fark themselves
and finally
3. Go fark themselves.

Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.
 
2020-12-02 9:26:36 AM  
75 votes:
Treat republican politicians exactly the same way that you would treat any other criminal who is attempting to run a scam on you.
 
2020-12-02 9:55:41 AM  
41 votes:
Someone(s) in Trump's circle of hell is being investigated for bribery in return for presidential pardons RIGHT FARKING NOW, something that likely has NEVER been done in US history. And republicans have said nothing, as usual.

Republicans, I want to hear neither Jack nor Shat of what you have to say. Not one goddamn peep from your faces. Just STFU for the next four years and forever about "scandals". And f'k your pearls too.
 
2020-12-02 9:17:17 AM  
39 votes:

cherryl taggart: Need to get Ted Lieu's team on it.  Get them to start pulling up video and audio clips, of each one smirking off whatever equates.  Since we have verified that there's always a tweet, and every accusation is a confession, there's a treasure trove to be flung in the face of whoever is pearl clutching.

Before allowing whatever Congresscritter is trying to get in your camera or microphone, pull up your handy file of clips from 2015-2020.  Have your production assistant waiting to hear whatever is the pearl of the moment, and as soon as that critter takes a breath, roll the archive material.


I was thinking this with regard to Neera Tanden.

Every time someone talks about her tweets they just need to pull up a clip of a reporter asking them about Trump's.

What kills is me is that many of his hits were about Republicans themselves.
 
2020-12-02 10:00:04 AM  
31 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.
 
2020-12-02 9:23:57 AM  
30 votes:
Scorched Earth, mfers.
 
2020-12-02 9:30:18 AM  
26 votes:
Republicans are namby pamby little crybabies when they don't get their way.  Stems from upbringing.  Their parents are probably assholes.
 
2020-12-02 9:58:53 AM  
24 votes:
Republican senators need to be muzzled, de-gloved, and blinded. They have no place to complain about anything Democrats do in the future because they sucked the saddest and ugliest cock on the planet then begged for more.
 
2020-12-02 9:55:57 AM  
23 votes:
C'mon, Georgia.

Don't let us down.
 
2020-12-02 9:54:56 AM  
20 votes:
Republicans don't care about the past. They've already gotten away with it.
 
2020-12-02 9:51:34 AM  
18 votes:
Rethuglicans blocking appointees based on "questionable tweets" is going to pin the Irony Meter so farking hard it will summon Galactus and then none of this will matter anyway.
 
2020-12-02 10:01:29 AM  
17 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.
 
2020-12-02 9:56:12 AM  
17 votes:
And they'll start biatching about the deficit next month, too.
 
2020-12-02 10:05:05 AM  
16 votes:
MattytheMouse:

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

But that's...literally what Schumer is doing here? He's calling them out on their bullshiat.
 
2020-12-02 10:03:40 AM  
16 votes:
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-12-02 9:53:19 AM  
15 votes:
F*ck Their Phony-Ass Feelings.
 
2020-12-02 11:05:05 AM  
14 votes:

abb3w: The only thing Republicans seem to have wanted at the time was to stop the Democrats from doing anything. Being obstructive is easy; being constructive seems more difficult.


The GOP literally had all three branches of the government, including both houses for two years and *couldn't even overturn the ACA* which was their single issue in the 6 years since it's inception. That should demonstrate just how disingenuous the argument "JUST DO THINGS!" is when viewed within the context of how our government actually operates.
 
2020-12-02 10:06:03 AM  
14 votes:

The Homer Tax: MattytheMouse:

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

But that's...literally what Schumer is doing here? He's calling them out on their bullshiat.


And they should keep it up and incorporate it into party-wide messaging.
 
2020-12-02 10:03:41 AM  
14 votes:

MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.


Counter(?) prediction: The Democrats will spend so much time not committing to a direction because they've been infiltrated by conservatives who were too disgusted by the slow-boil Trumpening of the their party since 1996, and we'll wind up with the exact same miserably barbaric policies we've been saddled with as a consequence of years of gerrymandering, lies, and a lack of focus from Democrat messaging.
 
2020-12-02 9:46:12 AM  
14 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


Firing squad?
 
2020-12-02 10:25:59 AM  
13 votes:
I want Dems to adopt AOC's attitude about those "overblown" accusations. Frame her dancing as an undergrad as a negative reflection on her character, and she will turn around and dance some more outside her office door.

I mean, those idiotic complaints against Obama could have been disarmed if he'd just responded with something like "imagine being the type of person who gets upset about someone wearing a tan suit."
 
2020-12-02 9:56:31 AM  
13 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.
 
2020-12-02 9:41:42 AM  
13 votes:
I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.
 
2020-12-02 10:14:33 AM  
12 votes:

hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.


Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?
 
2020-12-02 10:07:17 AM  
12 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

Specifically what would that leadership do differently?


They would act instead of looking for Republican approval before they say or do anything.

This is not complicated and it's been the answer for thread after thread after thread after thread and still you act as though this question has never been answered. You're not asking it in good faith anymore, you really don't want an answer you just want doing nothing and pointing at Republicans to be an acceptable style of governing. It's not. It doesn't work. It's failed. And yet you need justification after justification after justification before even considering doing something a little bit differently.

Stop asking bad faith questions that have been answered time and time again. You have your answer, now get to work or stop asking the question every goddamn thread, it's getting tiresome to see people act stupid when they're (I assume) not.
 
2020-12-02 9:59:22 AM  
12 votes:
Republican crimes, not mere scandals.
 
2020-12-02 11:02:57 AM  
11 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.


You can't reform a system specifically designed to allow an entrenched minority to prevent reform.
 
2020-12-02 11:27:26 AM  
10 votes:
What I find endlessly hilarious are the right-wing assholes cosplaying as "moderate progressives" as they decry leftists for "not doing anything" in their attempts to denigrate and harass leftists into silence.

Making these posts, having these conversations is doing something. The internet is the modern Town Square and we're here standing on our soapboxes, adding our voices, and doing our best to shape the conversation.

That us how we win. We keep talking. We convince more and more people that we're right - because we are. Eventually we get enough people on-side that we take over.

That's the only way real change ever happens.
 
2020-12-02 10:39:57 AM  
10 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,


You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.
 
2020-12-02 10:06:32 AM  
10 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.


How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?
 
2020-12-02 11:31:22 AM  
9 votes:

cherryl taggart: Need to get Ted Lieu's team on it.  Get them to start pulling up video and audio clips, of each one smirking off whatever equates.  Since we have verified that there's always a tweet, and every accusation is a confession, there's a treasure trove to be flung in the face of whoever is pearl clutching.

Before allowing whatever Congresscritter is trying to get in your camera or microphone, pull up your handy file of clips from 2015-2020.  Have your production assistant waiting to hear whatever is the pearl of the moment, and as soon as that critter takes a breath, roll the archive material.


They.

Don't.

Care.

And neither does their constituency.  They don't care.  This tactic has been a centerpiece of the liberal strategy since the late years of the Bush presidency, when social media and easy sharing of video began.  Playing their words back to them (and the public) does absolutely nothing.  There is literally NOTHING they will not ignore, pivot, or flip on if it serves them in that moment.

Stop suggesting we double down on political foam swords and media Nerf guns.  Focus on those that can actually be moved with pressure - blue politicians and policy makers, and growing the voting base from the incredibly huge mass of non-voters.  Pay zero attention to the calls of "how will we pay for this" or "what will the midwest think" or "what about the deficit" or "socialist takeover" or literally any euphemisms they will start pounding on January 20th - states rights, war on terror, war on drugs, law and order, family values, etc, etc.

The GOP is not going to work in good faith.  Period, end of story.  No amount of shame, pressure, or Aaron Sorkin verbal takedown fantasies is going to do a farking thing.  We've had 20 years of this ineffectual BS.
 
2020-12-02 11:01:52 AM  
9 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.


The only thing Republicans seem to have wanted at the time was to stop the Democrats from doing anything. Being obstructive is easy; being constructive seems more difficult.
 
2020-12-02 11:01:17 AM  
9 votes:

Sophont: Stop getting cowed from enacting anything because some moron pipes up 'How do you pay for it?" when we both have enough money to pay for shiat and the question isn't even being asked in good faith.


You can't "Enact" legislation without it passing the Senate. This is literally the entire point. In order to pass the Senate you need 60 votes for cloture. The question is ENTIRELY in good faith because it acknowledges the reality of our government and how it operates.

I agree with what you say about negotiation and Hannity and all of that, but it doesn't change how our government fundamentally operates. Operating within the confines of reality is not a bad faith position to take, it's literally the exact opposite.
 
2020-12-02 10:41:11 AM  
9 votes:

The Homer Tax: MattytheMouse:

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

But that's...literally what Schumer is doing here? He's calling them out on their bullshiat.


He's calling them out like he expects them to have shame about it. Quoting the rule book to rule-breakers doesn't stop them.

Don't send debate teams to a war.
 
2020-12-02 10:27:00 AM  
9 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: They would act instead of looking for Republican approval before they say or do anything.


"Just act" isn't a thing in the American Legislative system, this is the whole point. You're screaming "Just do things!" over and over again, but that's not how any of this works.

The specific question is: do what, and how. These are important questions. They are questions that are asked in good faith, you're just upset because you don't have an answer.

AdmirableSnackbar: Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.


What specifically  did republicans get accomplished unilaterally when they only had the house but not the senate or presidency? Top three legislative accomplishment's of the GOP during this time.
 
2020-12-02 10:12:42 AM  
9 votes:
Democrats still don't understand the game.
 
2020-12-02 10:08:41 AM  
9 votes:
All of sudden they are going to care about deficits, spending, the Covid response, executive power and oversight to name just a few.

Turn GA blue and make it moot. Write in Trump for Senate.
 
2020-12-02 11:44:58 AM  
8 votes:

Utnapishtim: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.

Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?

Because it is likely impossible. That's why people are asking for specifics, they don't see how it can work. The right wing media bubble will never allow anything but the right wing narrative through to it's consumers, and the reality based media ends up spending so much time covering the stories generated by the right wing media, that nothing else can get through. And even if it did, its fake news to them anyway. That is not the fault of the Democrats. There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.


The idea isn't to pierce the right wing bubble. The idea is to stop basing policy decision on what people in the bubble are going to think about it and go ahead "Just do something." without their input.
If it doesn't reach them, nothing of value was lost. No change from the status quo. Meanwhile, those who aren't in the bubble might see something they like, and the people in the bubble might still benefit from policies even if they don't support the people enacting them, and it will do more to pierce the bubble than any attempt to placate them.
 
2020-12-02 10:58:09 AM  
8 votes:

Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: So your specific plan is

You're like the 5th person in this thread to use this rhetorical tactic in bad faith. You should get some sort of prize.

I'm one of many people to point out that nothing you've offered up works within the frame of our government. Don't reflect on that though, everyone else is the asshole.


You know how Republicans do things - terrible things, but that's not related to the point - and then only talk about what they did or want to do in good, favorable terms and refuse to acknowledge anything bad? And you notice how they work to change public opinion on things towards what they want to do? Start there. Figure that shiat out, Democrats, and stop letting Republicans dictate the terms of the conversation because doing that allows Republicans to shape public opinion and crushes the Democrats' ability to change public opinion.

And then when you get that far, once you get power, you farking USE IT. There was no reason for Democrats to negotiate away parts of the ACA to make Republicans happy, only for Republicans to all vote against it and then use the weaknesses they created in the bill to essentially neuter it. Democrats should have gone full universal health care and then bragged about it instead of letting Republicans win in the end out of some sense of nobility.

I'm sorry if I'm not putting every step of the plan together for you, I'm not a member of Congress or part of the federal government. There's a lot to do to get anything done, I'm saying when you get an opportunity, make it happen instead of letting Republicans control what gets done. Is that too hard for you to understand? It's a strategy and an attitude, the specific uses of the levers of power change from instance to instance. And you know that, or should if you're actually being serious. So either you're not serious about this or you're not discussing this in good faith.
 
2020-12-02 10:55:44 AM  
8 votes:

The Homer Tax: When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith.


Because it's not.
He answers the question every single time, and you pretend he didn't because.... why?

Democrats need to stop worrying about what Republicans in Alabama are going to think before they commit to any plan of action. They need to stop being worried Sean Hannity is going to go on the air and call them socialists. They need to stop moderating their position to appease the opposition before they even get to the negotiating table, only for the opposition to oppose them out of spite, rather than any actual objections to their position.

You'll say something like "They need to represent everyone." when they try and concern themselves with the support of people who will never think of Democrats as anything other than baby-killing communists. But working in everyone's best interests isn't the same as representing everyone, and the Democrats consistently fail at the former while claiming to pursue the latter.

Stop getting cowed from enacting anything because some moron pipes up 'How do you pay for it?" when we both have enough money to pay for shiat and the question isn't even being asked in good faith.
 
2020-12-02 10:51:47 AM  
8 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: So your specific plan is

You're like the 5th person in this thread to use this rhetorical tactic in bad faith. You should get some sort of prize.


I'm one of many people to point out that nothing you've offered up works within the frame of our government. Don't reflect on that though, everyone else is the asshole.
 
2020-12-02 10:47:06 AM  
8 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.


I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.
 
2020-12-02 10:37:59 AM  
8 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.

You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.


Ok I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt, stop being useless if you ever want to be taken seriously.
 
2020-12-02 11:48:58 AM  
7 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Last I checked NFL teams aren't democracies.

Neither is this country; we're practically an oligarchy.


Not practically, actually.

The US government was designed and created as a white supremacist oligarchy that pretends towards democracy for marketing purposes. The entire point is to keep the labor class subjugated to the owner class.
 
2020-12-02 11:48:34 AM  
7 votes:

Utnapishtim: There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.


Your definition of "the people that need to hear it" is the problem.  The group that needs to hear are the 40% of the country that doesn't vote in presidential elections, the 60% that doesn't vote in midterm elections, and the 80%+ that don't vote in off-year elections.

The statistics are pretty clear on this - the entirety of political control in the country is based on voter turnout.  We don't need to change the minds of people who are committed to autocracy and authoritarian right-wing blather.
 
2020-12-02 11:36:41 AM  
7 votes:

The Homer Tax: Sliding Carp: The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.

They have the power to unleash AOC and the other progressives.  By stifling them, the status quo becomes the most liberal  possible point in the discourse, and things can only move to the right, little by little, ratcheting along as every step is always to the right, and at every step the national Democratic leadership builds a wall at exactly where we are and calls it "the center."

What does "unleash AOC" mean specifically? How specifically are she and other progressives being "stifled?"

Difficulty: moderate Democrats disagreeing with progressive Democrats on things != "stifling" them.


The party reprimanded them for opposing concentration camp funding and criticizing pro-Israeli PACS, often using conservative arguments to do so.
They gave a Republican more attention at the DNC than AOC, a member of their own party.

This is not disagreement.
 
2020-12-02 11:19:11 AM  
7 votes:

hugadarn: Sophont: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.

The problem is either you don't believe any of that, or your extremely lazy, or extremely cowardly.  Because if I believed what you are saying; I ...


It's funny how the supposed champions of progress always resort to conservative namecalling when they can't defend their arguments.
 
2020-12-02 11:02:49 AM  
7 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Hell, they can't even figure out why they're mad at me other than insufficient loyalty and deference to The Party.



Brother, I'll be straight with you, I find you frequently exasperating myself, but here's how I read your schtick:

The Republican Party is beyond redemption.  There is no floor to their corruption, hate, greed, and treachery.  There is no point in harping on them, because they are a black hole of awfulness unworthy of debate.

The Democratic Party, by contrast, is deeply flawed, but not beyond redemption.  We argue about what Democrats should do far more than Republicans because the ostensible ideals of the party are worth fighting for.

You complain about Democrats because we can be better.  Republicans cannot, and thus it is pointless to argue about them.
 
2020-12-02 10:58:38 AM  
7 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?


Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.
 
2020-12-02 10:43:28 AM  
7 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Democrats still don't understand the game.


It's either that, or they understand it just fine because they're controlled opposition paid to pretend to want better things but counted on to take a dive when it matters.
 
2020-12-02 10:35:51 AM  
7 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?


No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.
 
2020-12-02 10:12:30 AM  
7 votes:

MattytheMouse: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.


I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.  Look, Republicans are good at lying and good at cognitive dissonance. I dont expect calling it out will shame them into changing their ways or convince their supporters of the truth, but its still an important exercise.  Yes, we should do more; be more explicit; but I have never heard Snackbar offer one actionable suggestion.
 
2020-12-02 9:48:17 AM  
7 votes:

MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.


It's been done.  Expanded drone use, surveillance?   Pish.  Obama wore a tan suit and had odd choices in condiments.
 
2020-12-02 11:32:40 AM  
6 votes:
Honestly they're better off just ignoring bullshiat Republican posturing. Treat them all like the irrelevant fringe conspiracy nutters and country club jagoffs they are.
 
2020-12-02 11:28:00 AM  
6 votes:

SolderGlob: PlaidJaguar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.

You can't reform a system specifically designed to allow an entrenched minority to pre ...


It's not a conundrum.
Democrats aren't even attempting to offer people what they want. They try to rebrand a small, hopefully uncontroversial step in the direction of what some people might want as the actual thing everyone wants. And they aren't very good at it. It makes them appear weak, as if they don't stand for anything, and don't push back when the Republicans label them.

People want M4A.
Try to give it to them.
No, running on expanding tax credits as part of the ACA is not trying to give people M4A. It will not be viewed as an accomplishment by anyone who wants M4A no matter how hard you had to work to enact it. It's doing well in the 100 meter dash when the actual race is a marathon.
Run on M4A. Run the marathon. See how far you can get.
 
2020-12-02 11:17:47 AM  
6 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.


Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.
 
2020-12-02 11:16:16 AM  
6 votes:

PlaidJaguar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.

You can't reform a system specifically designed to allow an entrenched minority to prevent reform.


Yes. That's exactly the problem. The GOP has come to the realization that they don't actually have to do their jobs when they aren't in power and it benefits them not to do their jobs in the minority. Democrats don't have that luxury because if/when they don't do the exact thing some people want they lose elections. Quite the conundrum.
 
2020-12-02 11:07:52 AM  
6 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.


Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.
 
2020-12-02 11:07:25 AM  
6 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.


From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.
 
2020-12-02 11:02:40 AM  
6 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans

We need to defeat the Republicans in the Democratic Party, especially the ones in leadership position.

how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?

It doesn't, because that's their job. It's not my job to help them, certainly not when they act deliberately helpless and look to the GOP to make everything right.


I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy and what your "job" is in it. Hint: it's not over when you cast your vote.
 
2020-12-02 11:02:21 AM  
6 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.


So I can't do all of that AND post on Fark about how intransigent Democrats are?

Why do you assume that I'm not calling my POS representative and saying the same things to them? That I'm not also working with and supporting activist groups? Some of us can walk and chew gum.

Nothing you're doing is working. Whining about the fact that I've noticed that, while you don't really seem to care, doesn't solve anything.
 
2020-12-02 10:51:17 AM  
6 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.

You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.

Ok I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt, stop being useless if you ever want to be taken seriously.

Benefit of the doubt for what? You like living under trickle-down economics? You like when police lynch Black people? You like not having basic services that citizens of every developed country enjoy?

I'm done giving YOU the benefit of the doubt, ultimately you don't want to change any of those things.


Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.
 
2020-12-02 10:37:59 AM  
6 votes:

SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.


So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.
 
2020-12-02 10:29:11 AM  
6 votes:

cherryl taggart: Need to get Ted Lieu's team on it.  Get them to start pulling up video and audio clips, of each one smirking off whatever equates.  Since we have verified that there's always a tweet, and every accusation is a confession, there's a treasure trove to be flung in the face of whoever is pearl clutching.

Before allowing whatever Congresscritter is trying to get in your camera or microphone, pull up your handy file of clips from 2015-2020.  Have your production assistant waiting to hear whatever is the pearl of the moment, and as soon as that critter takes a breath, roll the archive material.


I nominate "i have a bo Burnham gif" for that job.  seems like they would excel in such a position
 
2020-12-02 10:23:47 AM  
6 votes:

Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.

It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.


It does, especially when it's people who claim to agree with my goals who are the ones preventing them from being realized.
 
2020-12-02 10:17:43 AM  
6 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.

Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?


Also this.

Democrats occasionally saying republicans are bad =\= them effectively messaging that republicans are bad.

It's like I said in another thread some days ago: it doesn't matter if Kamala Harris said during the VP debates that she's for decriminalizing weed. Nobody watched the debates, and that message still hasn't reached the broader public.
 
2020-12-02 10:15:41 AM  
6 votes:

The Homer Tax: MattytheMouse: And they should keep it up

Then why are you complaining?


Because despite all my rage, I'm still just a mouse in a cage.
 
2020-12-02 2:40:58 PM  
5 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.


Actual progressives aren't going to keep letting moderates be the arbiters of what is "justified", especially not after literal decades of no criticism at all being accepted as "justified" no matter the evidence presented.

You can't keep droning on that progressive ideas only get support in the deepest, bluest districts when there's evidence and examples of the exact opposite being true. If the polls showing M4A is popular with 60+% of the electorate and 80+% of Democrats isn't enough, the candidates running on M4A and GND winning in purple districts (the chart), or Florida voting for Trump and a $15 min/wage isn't going to convince you, you're making a conscious effort not to be convinced.
 
2020-12-02 11:20:26 AM  
5 votes:

hugadarn: Last I checked NFL teams aren't democracies.


Neither is this country; we're practically an oligarchy.
 
2020-12-02 11:07:42 AM  
5 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans

We need to defeat the Republicans in the Democratic Party, especially the ones in leadership position.

how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?

It doesn't, because that's their job. It's not my job to help them, certainly not when they act deliberately helpless and look to the GOP to make everything right.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy and what your "job" is in it. Hint: it's not over when you cast your vote.


And here I am, exhorting Democrats - for whom I voted - to represent their constituents better than they have in decades and you're arguing in bad faith that they should not do that.
 
2020-12-02 11:01:36 AM  
5 votes:

Sophont: The Homer Tax: When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith.

Because it's not.
He answers the question every single time, and you pretend he didn't because.... why?

Democrats need to stop worrying about what Republicans in Alabama are going to think before they commit to any plan of action. They need to stop being worried Sean Hannity is going to go on the air and call them socialists. They need to stop moderating their position to appease the opposition before they even get to the negotiating table, only for the opposition to oppose them out of spite, rather than any actual objections to their position.

You'll say something like "They need to represent everyone." when they try and concern themselves with the support of people who will never think of Democrats as anything other than baby-killing communists. But working in everyone's best interests isn't the same as representing everyone, and the Democrats consistently fail at the former while claiming to pursue the latter.

Stop getting cowed from enacting anything because some moron pipes up 'How do you pay for it?" when we both have enough money to pay for shiat and the question isn't even being asked in good faith.


If you just believe hard enough, you can overcome trivial barriers like being a minority in the Senate. Mitch McConnell will be so impressed by the way the dems didn't worry about what a Republican voter in Alabama thinks that he'll just step out of the way in the face of our big dick energy. But Democrats wont even try it!
 
2020-12-02 10:48:51 AM  
5 votes:
Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.
 
2020-12-02 10:47:37 AM  
5 votes:

Spartapuss: So your specific plan is


You're like the 5th person in this thread to use this rhetorical tactic in bad faith. You should get some sort of prize.
 
2020-12-02 10:44:20 AM  
5 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: Democrats still don't understand the game.


They understand.  They refuse to play it.  It's a choice.
 
2020-12-02 10:42:13 AM  
5 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,

You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.


We're talking about too broad a topic to offer specifics on any one thing. Ultimately it comes down to Democrats need to make an effort to make things happen, not ceding every argument to Republicans and letting Republicans control every conversation, as Schumer is doing here.

There's nothing specific in this case to offer except "do what you want, fark what Republicans want."

But even that's just too much for you to comprehend, so I can't imagine discussing policy implementation to you. It would take centuries and you're not worth the time.
 
2020-12-02 10:41:11 AM  
5 votes:
This is the prusik-knot that is Republican politics. They slide the rope where they want it, then lock it down while Democrats are in control. Then they slide it a little further, then lock it down. There is no give-and-take. There is only the inexorable march toward authoritarianism. What they did doesn't matter--they had to do it. But if it's not them doing it, it's not happening.
 
2020-12-02 10:35:26 AM  
5 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.

It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.

It does, especially when it's people who claim to agree with my goals who are the ones preventing them from being realized.


But you see your not helping at all. You are supervising a construction site, telling all the builders they are doing it wrong without offering any insight into how to do it better.
 
2020-12-02 10:35:23 AM  
5 votes:

The Homer Tax: The specific question is: do what, and how.


You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.
 
2020-12-02 10:08:10 AM  
5 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?


Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.
 
2020-12-02 5:07:12 PM  
4 votes:
I like the whole "The Democrats should just act like Republicans" take on how to get things done. It conveniently leaves out the "build a billion dollar propaganda network that will back Democrats no matter what dumb things they do on AM radio and cable" step. Not to mention that even the most "liberal" of media by-and-large doesn't want to carry the Democrat's water
 
2020-12-02 4:53:44 PM  
4 votes:

Graffito: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

Absolutely nobody thinks that.  Exaggeration doesn't help.  Whining about democrats doesn't help.  Why aren't you and your Bernie Brethren just "doing something?"  Why aren't they bringing about Medicare for All and student loan forgiveness?  They should just pass the legislation without caring what democrats or repubs think.

What's that you say?  They don't have the votes?  They don't hold enough seats in congress?  Well, figure it out!  That's their job.


You're a sociopath.
 
2020-12-02 3:53:31 PM  
4 votes:
AdmirableSnackbar:

Everyone in this thread has been waiting for you to provide an example of what you want the Democrats to do. Any concrete example.

The best I've seen can be summarized as "be like the Republicans, but don't be like the Republicans," which is not helpful.

I've never seen you offer anything but sealioning and obfuscation, so we have to conclude you're full of it.
 
2020-12-02 3:25:19 PM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Not at all, he just whined about hypocrisy.

It makes so much sense that you thought that was an ass kicking, your standards are so low as to be nonexistent.

Yes, they are low because Democrats have historically shied away from doing shiat like this. This is the change you've been screaming for and now that it's here it's all of a sudden not enough. I have a notion that when the Democrats take that next step and start utilizing the tactics that the GOP normalized then that won't be enough and you'll continue to criticize them.

They have never shied away from passive-aggressive weak comments like this. The problem is that this is the best they can do, and it sucks.


Fark user imageView Full Size


This is the zenith of Democratic resistance to Trump.
They couldn't even impeach him without devising a way to narrow the focus into meaninglessness.
 
2020-12-02 3:22:09 PM  
4 votes:

SolderGlob: Sophont: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Actual progressives aren't going to keep letting moderates be the arbiters of what is "justified", especially not after literal decades of no criticism at all being accepted as "justified" no matter the evidence presented.

You can't keep droning on that progressive ideas only get support in the deepest, bluest districts when there's evidence and examples of the exact opposite being true. If the polls showing M4A is popular with 60+% of the electorate and 80+% of Democrats isn't enough, the candidates running on M4A and GND winning in purple districts (the chart), or Florida voting for Trump and a $15 min/wage isn't going to convince you, you're making a conscious effort not to be convinced.

That's not my stance at all. In fact, no where on this site have I ever made this argument. You're bringing all your grievances against the "Centrists" and "Moderates" and applying them to anyone that doesn't toe your line. It's pathetic and I respect you enough to know that this is beneath you.


Then don't trot out those pathetic moderate talking points like "The criticism has to be justified."
It'd be one thing if it was just people not toeing my line, but arguments like the "justified" one aren't an attempt to pit their opinion against mine, but delegitimizing my opinion altogether. So it goes in these threads, where it's not bouncing back and forth about what strategy Democrats should employ, but whether one side even has the right to have an opinion at all.
There is evidence. There's plenty to be learned from the election and what could be done to win the GA seats. But the usual suspects are trying to shut down arguments the same ways they did when Millenials actually were young, recycled when the same problems haven't been solved for the Zoomers.
It's not justified. You don't understand how this works. You don't have any experience. I don't accept this evidence, find more. Oh yeah, why don't you get elected?
I'd farking enjoy someone simply not toeing the line.
 
2020-12-02 3:19:23 PM  
4 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Not at all, he just whined about hypocrisy.

It makes so much sense that you thought that was an ass kicking, your standards are so low as to be nonexistent.

Yes, they are low because Democrats have historically shied away from doing shiat like this. This is the change you've been screaming for and now that it's here it's all of a sudden not enough. I have a notion that when the Democrats take that next step and start utilizing the tactics that the GOP normalized then that won't be enough and you'll continue to criticize them.


They have never shied away from passive-aggressive weak comments like this. The problem is that this is the best they can do, and it sucks.
 
2020-12-02 2:56:12 PM  
4 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

I'm not the one that came into a thread about Republicans being shiatheads and and said let's ignore the Republicans being shiatheads and then started blaming Democrats for Republicans being shiatheads.


I didn't say ignore the Republicans being shiatheads. I'm saying ignore the Republican shiatheads when they whine. Farking kick their ass instead of trying to placate them.

I remember when you whined at me for hours for treating you like a disingenuous centrist. Stop acting like one.
 
2020-12-02 2:35:42 PM  
4 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.


Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.
 
2020-12-02 2:32:03 PM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.


The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.
 
2020-12-02 1:49:23 PM  
4 votes:
Wow.  Right wing assholes never seem to reach their fill of complaining about and insulting progressives.

\I'd mockingly say "don't ever change" but it would be redundant
\\Conservatives already oppose change and progress.
 
2020-12-02 12:32:22 PM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.


Oh no! One less whiny Stein voter. How will the nation recover!
 
2020-12-02 12:15:29 PM  
4 votes:

The Homer Tax: Sliding Carp: The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.

They have the power to unleash AOC and the other progressives.  By stifling them, the status quo becomes the most liberal  possible point in the discourse, and things can only move to the right, little by little, ratcheting along as every step is always to the right, and at every step the national Democratic leadership builds a wall at exactly where we are and calls it "the center."

What does "unleash AOC" mean specifically? How specifically are she and other progressives being "stifled?"

Difficulty: moderate Democrats disagreeing with progressive Democrats on things != "stifling" them.



It only works one way.  Because leftists are the underdogs they believe it's their right and DUTY to attack and obstruct other liberals & progressives.  But if you question them or refuse to roll over and do what they want you're stifling them, which they see as justification for more attacks and obstruction.

They want conflict more than anything else.
 
2020-12-02 12:15:12 PM  
4 votes:

Utnapishtim: If that's the case why do they need to "grab the narrative"? It's preaching to the choir. They are only losing the narrative battle because of the bubble.


Because, since you haven't noticed, the narrative outside of the Republican bubble is the same as the narrative inside the bubble. And that's true only because there is no competing narrative anywhere. Democrats don't have plans. They don't have ideas. They don't even have values.

For instance, in the Democratic primary this year, Democrats were spouting Republican talking points against policies that Democratic voters prefer almost universally. That contributed to the decades-long narrative that universal health care is dangerous, irresponsible, and completely unworkable. Which in turn made people vote against it, and now we won't get it for another decade at the earliest.

That's what you're supporting here, and it's not helpful in any way, shape, or form.
 
2020-12-02 11:39:35 AM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.

Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?


Because it is likely impossible. That's why people are asking for specifics, they don't see how it can work. The right wing media bubble will never allow anything but the right wing narrative through to it's consumers, and the reality based media ends up spending so much time covering the stories generated by the right wing media, that nothing else can get through. And even if it did, its fake news to them anyway. That is not the fault of the Democrats. There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.
 
2020-12-02 11:23:05 AM  
4 votes:

hugadarn: if I believed what you are saying; I wouldn't be at work, waiting for a part to come in, dickin around on fark; I'd be plotting a revolution because democracy doesn't work.


hugadarn: Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.


"If you're not out in a field plotting a coup, your concerns about democracy are invalid"


That's Trumper shiat.
 
2020-12-02 11:21:21 AM  
4 votes:

The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.


They have the power to unleash AOC and the other progressives.  By stifling them, the status quo becomes the most liberal  possible point in the discourse, and things can only move to the right, little by little, ratcheting along as every step is always to the right, and at every step the national Democratic leadership builds a wall at exactly where we are and calls it "the center."
 
2020-12-02 11:19:41 AM  
4 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.


Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.
 
2020-12-02 11:09:44 AM  
4 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

So I can't do all of that AND post on Fark about how intransigent Democrats are?

Why do you assume that I'm not calling my POS representative and saying the same things to them? That I'm not also working with and supporting activist groups? Some of us can walk and chew gum.

Nothing you're doing is working. Whining about the fact that I've noticed that, while you don't really seem to care, doesn't solve anything.

What could your representative possibly do with anything you have written here. How is "do something dammit" constructive.


My representative is not on Fark. We're discussing shiat here, not plotting actions because they're not our actions to take.

You think you're on the coaching staff of your favorite football team, don't you? You think that their performance is tied directly to your personal actions and decisions, right? That's the level of idiocy and anal-retentive stupidity you're showing here.
 
2020-12-02 11:08:51 AM  
4 votes:

Generation_D: I mean, it worked for Trump, why doesn't it work when we do it.


Here's the thing though - it didn't really work for Trump. He accomplished very little legislatively in office. it's why he had to resort to executive orders for everything, which can all be as easily undone as they were done.

The *only* legislative accomplishment during the Trump administration was the Tax scam, and even that passed just barely.
 
2020-12-02 11:05:20 AM  
4 votes:

SolderGlob: Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans, or how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?


It doesn't. Look at the guys posting history. shiatting on Democrats is the point.

The most charitable explanation is that the Democrats hurt his feeling so bad by rejecting St. Bernie that he thinks the party must be destroyed as punishment.
 
2020-12-02 11:04:25 AM  
4 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: AdmirableSnackbar: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Hell, they can't even figure out why they're mad at me other than insufficient loyalty and deference to The Party.


Brother, I'll be straight with you, I find you frequently exasperating myself, but here's how I read your schtick:

The Republican Party is beyond redemption.  There is no floor to their corruption, hate, greed, and treachery.  There is no point in harping on them, because they are a black hole of awfulness unworthy of debate.

The Democratic Party, by contrast, is deeply flawed, but not beyond redemption.  We argue about what Democrats should do far more than Republicans because the ostensible ideals of the party are worth fighting for.

You complain about Democrats because we can be better.  Republicans cannot, and thus it is pointless to argue about them.


Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.
 
2020-12-02 10:52:52 AM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.

That's why you don't negotiate with the GOP. You work to defeat them and do what the fark you want. ...


Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans, or how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?
 
2020-12-02 10:49:02 AM  
4 votes:

The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.


Pretty much. It also makes it unreasonable to sit here and pre-emptively attack the Democrats for not getting anything done when the opposition is willing to shut the entire government down for the next four years.
 
2020-12-02 10:45:35 AM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,

You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.

We're talking about too broad a topic to offer specifics on any one thing. Ultimately it comes down to Democrats need to make an effort to make things happen, not ceding every argument to Republicans and letting Republicans control every conversation, as Schumer is doing here.

There's nothing specific in this case to offer except "do what you want, fark what Republicans want."

But even that's just too much for you to comprehend, so I can't imagine discussing policy implementation to you. It would take centuries and you're not worth the time.


I'm amazed. I thought for sure this guy had hit peak stupidity when he was trying to get Trump elected.
 
2020-12-02 10:44:07 AM  
4 votes:

bluejeansonfire: HotWingConspiracy: Democrats still don't understand the game.

It's either that, or they understand it just fine because they're controlled opposition paid to pretend to want better things but counted on to take a dive when it matters.


It's pretty evident that the latter is the case. Has been for quite a while.
 
2020-12-02 10:39:57 AM  
4 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.

You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.

Ok I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt, stop being useless if you ever want to be taken seriously.


Benefit of the doubt for what? You like living under trickle-down economics? You like when police lynch Black people? You like not having basic services that citizens of every developed country enjoy?

I'm done giving YOU the benefit of the doubt, ultimately you don't want to change any of those things.
 
2020-12-02 10:28:55 AM  
4 votes:

Tarl3k: rewind2846: Someone(s) in Trump's circle of hell is being investigated for bribery in return for presidential pardons RIGHT FARKING NOW, something that likely has NEVER been done in US history. And republicans have said nothing, as usual.

Republicans, I want to hear neither Jack nor Shat of what you have to say. Not one goddamn peep from your faces. Just STFU for the next four years and forever about "scandals". And f'k your pearls too.

I believe you but want to know more...citation please?


Start here. Hell, start with google. It's on the front page of papers around the planet.
 
2020-12-02 10:13:06 AM  
4 votes:

Diogenes: Obama ... had odd choices in condiments.


Even this needs a "get farked" response.

Obama liked a particular type of mustard. Trump like tomato ketchup on well done steaks.
 
2020-12-02 10:11:10 AM  
4 votes:
Now integrity is important to them.  I wonder what changed?
 
2020-12-02 10:11:00 AM  
4 votes:
At some point words aren't going to be enough and a baseball bat will need to be employed. That point will come with those people as more Americans die and hospitals are flooded with COVID patients.
 
2020-12-02 10:07:56 AM  
4 votes:

fzumrk: They "haven't seen those reports" so how can they have an opinion on that.


What year are you living in? Republicans have an "opinion" on shat they have never seen and will never see.
 
2020-12-02 10:03:47 AM  
4 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


Specifically what would that leadership do differently?
 
2020-12-02 6:12:41 PM  
3 votes:

Graffito: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

Absolutely nobody thinks that.  Exaggeration doesn't help.  Whining about democrats doesn't help.  Why aren't you and your Bernie Brethren just "doing something?"  Why aren't they bringing about Medicare for All and student loan forgiveness?  They should just pass the legislation without caring what democrats or repubs think.

What's that you say?  They don't have the votes?  They don't hold enough seats in congress?  Well, figure it out!  That's their job.


Just so you know, your pathological obsession with Bernie Sanders says far more about you than it does those you attempt to denigrate and dismiss by associating them with his name.
 
2020-12-02 6:08:53 PM  
3 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

I'm not the one that came into a thread about Republicans being shiatheads and and said let's ignore the Republicans being shiatheads and then started blaming Democrats for Republicans being shiatheads.

I didn't say ignore the Republicans being shiatheads. I'm saying ignore the Republican shiatheads when they whine. Farking kick their ass instead of trying to placate them.

I remember when you whined at me for hours for treating you like a disingenuous centrist. Stop acting like one.

That's literally what Schumer did in tfa.... 

Oh, sorry. Democrats need to be constantly criticized, I forgot. Can't ever defend them when they actually do the right thing. God, how Centrist of me to think that.


There is a vast and vital difference between "doing the right thing" and "doing not the worst possible thing"

Calling the latter the former doesn't convince anyone who isn't fully on-board already.
 
2020-12-02 5:09:21 PM  
3 votes:
I mean, if you're so very happy that our country sees ~70k citizens die every year because they can't afford health care that you taunt the people trying to change it...what the actual fark is wrong with someone that would do that?

We should be horrified and embarrassed at our third world health care system and the damage it does. Instead you're proud of it? You're proud that we're at least a decade away from joining the rest of the world in making sure it's citizens' basic human needs are met? Farking disgusting.
 
2020-12-02 3:02:08 PM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.

AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

I'm not the one that came into a thread about Republicans being shiatheads and and said let's ignore the Republicans being shiatheads and then started blaming Democrats for Republicans being shiatheads.

I didn't say ignore the Republicans being shiatheads. I'm saying ignore the Republican shiatheads when they whine. Farking kick their ass instead of trying to placate them.

I remember when you whined at me for hours for treating you like a disingenuous centrist. Stop acting like one.


That's literally what Schumer did in tfa.... 

Oh, sorry. Democrats need to be constantly criticized, I forgot. Can't ever defend them when they actually do the right thing. God, how Centrist of me to think that.
 
2020-12-02 2:08:02 PM  
3 votes:

Gyrfalcon: WTFDYW: hugadarn: MattytheMouse: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.  Look, Republicans are good at lying and good at cognitive dissonance. I dont expect calling it out will shame them into changing their ways or convince their supporters of the truth, but its still an important exercise.  Yes, we should do more; be more explicit; but I have never heard Snackbar offer one actionable suggestion.

Snackbar just likes to hear his own lips flap. He is annoying as fark.

Pretty much.

He's one of the "Do something!" crowd. And when you try to nail him down on what the Something is, he just says "anything but what they're doing! Also you're the one who isn't Doing It Right!"

A lot of these pseudo progressives sound like him.


Can't get you to understand something you don't want to understand. Bragging about being deliberately obtuse is an interesting tactic, though. Makes it easier to take you not seriously at all.
 
2020-12-02 1:41:53 PM  
3 votes:

WTFDYW: hugadarn: MattytheMouse: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.  Look, Republicans are good at lying and good at cognitive dissonance. I dont expect calling it out will shame them into changing their ways or convince their supporters of the truth, but its still an important exercise.  Yes, we should do more; be more explicit; but I have never heard Snackbar offer one actionable suggestion.

Snackbar just likes to hear his own lips flap. He is annoying as fark.


Pretty much.

He's one of the "Do something!" crowd. And when you try to nail him down on what the Something is, he just says "anything but what they're doing! Also you're the one who isn't Doing It Right!"

A lot of these pseudo progressives sound like him.
 
2020-12-02 12:27:52 PM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: MattytheMouse: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

I'd say stop trying to take the high road and actually try to run counter messaging against Republican bullshiat. Right now, Democrat's main strategy seems to be to let Republicans control the narrative, say whatever they want, and assume their constituents are smart enough to sift through the crap themselves.

I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.  Look, Republicans are good at lying and good at cognitive dissonance. I dont expect calling it out will shame them into changing their ways or convince their supporters of the truth, but its still an important exercise.  Yes, we should do more; be more explicit; but I have never heard Snackbar offer one actionable suggestion.


Snackbar just likes to hear his own lips flap. He is annoying as fark.
 
2020-12-02 12:17:15 PM  
3 votes:

Utnapishtim: If that's the case why do they need to "grab the narrative"? It's preaching to the choir. They are only losing the narrative battle because of the bubble.


Not everyone is a Democrat, and not all Democrats are political junkies. There's plenty more than the choir to preach to, but that isn't going to happen if they cede the narrative to the bubble. Trying to address the often spurious concerns of the people in the bubble gives it credibility. The bubble constantly labelling Democrats as socialists, and them doing everything they can so as to not appear socialist, just makes them look like socialists to everyone who isn't into politics enough to know that doesn't mean Soviet gulags and breadlines.

Utnapishtim: I don't disagree that it would be good for them to just stop worrying about what Republicans will think, but the truth is they can't really do anything without the political power to do it. Too many state governments and the Senate prevent anything from happening. I don't think we really have enough evidence to say if the party learned those lessons from the Obama Administration or note. They have not had the required power to actually ignore Republicans and push through their agenda.


There's more to this all than how the legislature works. It's also about winning hearts and minds, so that the political landscape does change in favor of Democrats pushing through their agenda. It's publicly running on Medicare for All instead of minute changes to the ACA so as to not appear socialist.
And besides that, if Republicans will not support Democratic legislation no matter what Democrats concede, there's no point in treating with them. Again, to the layman it just looks like Democrats are responding to valid Republican concerns. If not votes are lost either way, Democrats can offer an alternative instead of a compromise.
 
2020-12-02 11:30:08 AM  
3 votes:

Sliding Carp: The Homer Tax: SolderGlob: You know how the GOP shut out the entire Democratic party when drafting their Tax Scam bill, then only gave them two hours to read it prior to voting on it?

Democrats need to do that when they have the power. Sadly, they don't have the power going into 2021 to do anything meaningful since the Senate exists, but when they do have power they should wield it the same way the GOP does.

So this is kind of my whole point, right? Democrats *don't* have the power to do anything really, so balling up your fists and screaming "DO SOMETHING!" is pissing into the wind.

They have the power to unleash AOC and the other progressives.  By stifling them, the status quo becomes the most liberal  possible point in the discourse, and things can only move to the right, little by little, ratcheting along as every step is always to the right, and at every step the national Democratic leadership builds a wall at exactly where we are and calls it "the center."


What does "unleash AOC" mean specifically? How specifically are she and other progressives being "stifled?"

Difficulty: moderate Democrats disagreeing with progressive Democrats on things != "stifling" them.
 
2020-12-02 11:14:36 AM  
3 votes:

BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.


I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.
 
2020-12-02 11:12:38 AM  
3 votes:

The Homer Tax: You can't "Enact" legislation without it passing the Senate. This is literally the entire point. In order to pass the Senate you need 60 votes for cloture. The question is ENTIRELY in good faith because it acknowledges the reality of our government and how it operates.


It's in no way good faith because that's not what the discussion is about.
Ackbar's argument isn't about getting things through the Senate. He/She's even said they're not being that specific. But it's still folly to try to placate Republicans in the Senate in exchange for zero votes, so their "Stop deferring to Republicans before you do anything." applies there, too.

In any case, the Democrats can win the Senate by not beholdening themselves to Republicans when they think up policy.
 
2020-12-02 10:48:53 AM  
3 votes:

SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?

No, I want Democrats to act without regard to Republicans at all. Disregard them. Don't listen to them, don't let them control the narrative. I've never seen that in my lifetime and I'm not exactly young.

I'm not sure why Democrats always need Republicans to lead them around, but that's what we've had for the last 40 years.

I don't disagree with this at all. I'd like to see the Democrats utilize more of the tactics that the GOP uses to get their way, but therein lies the problem. The Democratic party wants a functioning federal government, the GOP doesn't, so they will use that as leverage to get whatever they want. When Democrats are arguing for stricter emissions regulations or healthcare it does nothing for them to threaten to shut down the government, and in fact works against them. The problem is that Democrats have no leverage with which to negotiate since the goals of the GOP and the goals of the Democratic party are in complete opposition to each other. 

You can't negotiate with someone willing and eager to kill the hostage.


That's why you don't negotiate with the GOP. You work to defeat them and do what the fark you want. You know this, right, and are just putting on an act here, right? I certainly hope so.
 
2020-12-02 10:37:04 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Spartapuss: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.

It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.

It does, especially when it's people who claim to agree with my goals who are the ones preventing them from being realized.

But you see your not helping at all. You are supervising a construction site, telling all the builders they are doing it wrong without offering any insight into how to do it better.


I've offered specifics, you offer nonsense. Have a good one.
 
2020-12-02 10:26:11 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?

Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.


You just put out a paragraph of complete nonsense, you didn't ask anything.
 
2020-12-02 10:23:09 AM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?

It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.


It must suck knowing that you'll never live to see your goals come to fruition.
 
2020-12-02 10:18:54 AM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.


There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.
 
2020-12-02 10:15:44 AM  
3 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?


It would be nice, for a change. Big things. Nibbling around the edges and doing almost nothing isn't working, if you haven't noticed. Trump winning in 2016 should have been a giant warning sign but it's clear that you're completely ignoring it. Nothing I can do about that, that's on you to learn from mistakes.
 
2020-12-02 10:14:06 AM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.

Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.


So use tools you have to do stuff you can do? Things, you want them to do things?
 
2020-12-02 10:12:51 AM  
3 votes:
Sadly, they (will) have the votes to block whatever Moscow Mitch says they should.

I do enjoy the thought that mitch's blood pressure will go up every time some uppity junior trumper realizes their vote has power & demands a bribe, but ultimately the trumpers will band together against the evil Democrats.

Take back the senate, then have at it. Until then, trying to embarrass a trumper by pointing out their hypocrisy is like trying to explain physics to a cat. They could understand, but just don't give a shiat.
 
2020-12-02 10:05:05 AM  
3 votes:

Clearly Canadian: MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.

Counter(?) prediction: The Democrats will spend so much time not committing to a direction because they've been infiltrated by conservatives who were too disgusted by the slow-boil Trumpening of the their party since 1996, and we'll wind up with the exact same miserably barbaric policies we've been saddled with as a consequence of years of gerrymandering, lies, and a lack of focus from Democrat messaging.


Your prediction is tangentially related to mine.
 
2020-12-02 10:02:48 AM  
3 votes:

Rambino: MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.

On a sidenote, I'm all about exploring interesting fetishes, but I just can't get behind vore. Not kink-shaming, but this one honestly makes me uncomfortable. Which is saying something given the shiat I put up with. *sigh-fap*


Trust me: every other voraphile I know has a crisis of conscience over the fact that they get off to vore. Usually, it's resolved when they realize that actually eating people and/or things Jeffery Dahmer-style is still repugnant to them.
 
2020-12-02 10:00:39 AM  
3 votes:

rewind2846: Someone(s) in Trump's circle of hell is being investigated for bribery in return for presidential pardons RIGHT FARKING NOW, something that likely has NEVER been done in US history. And republicans have said nothing, as usual.

Republicans, I want to hear neither Jack nor Shat of what you have to say. Not one goddamn peep from your faces. Just STFU for the next four years and forever about "scandals". And f'k your pearls too.


They "haven't seen those reports" so how can they have an opinion on that.
 
2020-12-02 9:59:47 AM  
3 votes:

MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.


On a sidenote, I'm all about exploring interesting fetishes, but I just can't get behind vore. Not kink-shaming, but this one honestly makes me uncomfortable. Which is saying something given the shiat I put up with. *sigh-fap*
 
2020-12-02 5:20:27 PM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: I mean, if you're so very happy that our country sees ~70k citizens die every year because they can't afford health care that you taunt the people trying to change it...what the actual fark is wrong with someone that would do that?


Who's proud of it? It's an embarrassment. But your guys' solution of "Well if Democrats don't do exactly what we want we'll stay home and maybe Republicans will undo the progress that's been done" is just as evil
 
2020-12-02 4:37:13 PM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.


Absolutely nobody thinks that.  Exaggeration doesn't help.  Whining about democrats doesn't help.  Why aren't you and your Bernie Brethren just "doing something?"  Why aren't they bringing about Medicare for All and student loan forgiveness?  They should just pass the legislation without caring what democrats or repubs think.

What's that you say?  They don't have the votes?  They don't hold enough seats in congress?  Well, figure it out!  That's their job.
 
2020-12-02 3:28:22 PM  
2 votes:

Utnapishtim: Khellendros: Utnapishtim: There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.

Your definition of "the people that need to hear it" is the problem.  The group that needs to hear are the 40% of the country that doesn't vote in presidential elections, the 60% that doesn't vote in midterm elections, and the 80%+ that don't vote in off-year elections.

The statistics are pretty clear on this - the entirety of political control in the country is based on voter turnout.  We don't need to change the minds of people who are committed to autocracy and authoritarian right-wing blather.

People are politically disengaged for a wide variety of reasons. Don't you think that it is risky to pin all of your hopes on a group that has proven that they are not willing to participate? I'm not saying its not worth trying to get them engaged, because it definitely is, but they are not a monolithic voting bloc and some of them are just ignorant and lazy. I don't want to necessarily count on them to save us.


There are only two groups not voting blue - nonvoters and the right.  You think it's more fruitful to try to "convince" and/or shame the right by constantly hammering their hypocrisy (something that has done absolutely nothing in almost two decades) or by trying to convince them of liberal or progressive ideals (something that has not only failed, but backfired for 40 years)?

Or do we focus on a group that we know can be moved?  You know, as was showing in an election less than a month ago with record turnout?  Let's see here.....
 
2020-12-02 2:54:39 PM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Exactly. You just ignore the justification, act as if it doesn't exist, and then voila, it's not valid criticism.

Just as I said, thanks for proving the point.


AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.


I'm not the one that came into a thread about Republicans being shiatheads and and said let's ignore the Republicans being shiatheads and then started blaming Democrats for Republicans being shiatheads.
 
2020-12-02 2:28:13 PM  
2 votes:

Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.


I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.
 
2020-12-02 1:49:33 PM  
2 votes:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

Specifically what would that leadership do differently?


Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size


And yes, I'm serious.  Unrepentant traitors deserve *nothing* good.
 
2020-12-02 12:05:21 PM  
2 votes:

Sophont: Utnapishtim: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: I dont know how hamming home the hypocrisy isn't a way of grabbing the narrative.

Because there's no positive narrative coming from Democrats. The conversation is still about what Republicans say and do, and not at all about what Democrats want to do or are doing. It's not grabbing control of the narrative, it's flat-out ceding the narrative to Republicans.

How is this so hard to understand?

Because it is likely impossible. That's why people are asking for specifics, they don't see how it can work. The right wing media bubble will never allow anything but the right wing narrative through to it's consumers, and the reality based media ends up spending so much time covering the stories generated by the right wing media, that nothing else can get through. And even if it did, its fake news to them anyway. That is not the fault of the Democrats. There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.

The idea isn't to pierce the right wing bubble. The idea is to stop basing policy decision on what people in the bubble are going to think about it and go ahead "Just do something." without their input.
If it doesn't reach them, nothing of value was lost. No change from the status quo. Meanwhile, those who aren't in the bubble might see something they like, and the people in the bubble might still benefit from policies even if they don't support the people enacting them, and it will do more to pierce the bubble than any attempt to placate them.


If that's the case why do they need to "grab the narrative"? It's preaching to the choir. They are only losing the narrative battle because of the bubble.

I don't disagree that it would be good for them to just stop worrying about what Republicans will think, but the truth is they can't really do anything without the political power to do it. Too many state governments and the Senate prevent anything from happening. I don't think we really have enough evidence to say if the party learned those lessons from the Obama Administration or note. They have not had the required power to actually ignore Republicans and push through their agenda.
 
2020-12-02 11:29:09 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.

Well maybe its not worth dying for its borders or its flag but it is the country that has most of my loved ones and all of my stuff so I'm willing to fight for it.


Then I guess it's time to get your rifle and get out there, tough guy.
 
2020-12-02 11:29:07 AM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

So I can't do all of that AND post on Fark about how intransigent Democrats are?

Why do you assume that I'm not calling my POS representative and saying the same things to them? That I'm not also working with and supporting activist groups? Some of us can walk and chew gum.

Nothing you're doing is working. Whining about the fact that I've noticed that, while you don't really seem to care, doesn't solve anything.


As opposed to anything you're doing that is "working"? What is that, exactly, that is "working"?

All you've done is pointed to a supposed time (1994?) when Republicans only held the House and yet got everything they wanted...without telling us what exactly they got, or how. You're just empty hot air.
 
2020-12-02 11:28:30 AM  
2 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: hugadarn: if I believed what you are saying; I wouldn't be at work, waiting for a part to come in, dickin around on fark; I'd be plotting a revolution because democracy doesn't work.

hugadarn: Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

"If you're not out in a field plotting a coup, your concerns about democracy are invalid"


That's Trumper shiat.


No you have three choices. Work in the system. Work outside the system, or do nothing. It appears some have chosen the last one but want to complain about us doing the first. I respect the second.
 
2020-12-02 11:25:09 AM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: BigSquibowski: Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.

Ignoring things you may not like does not make them go away. IE, Trump about Biden's win.
He also makes a lot of good points but is a little off the deep end, for me.

I simply have no farks left to give for fascists and fascist enablers in either political party. We are four years away from electing a dictator, it's time for Democrats to act with some urgency to prevent that because Republicans are going to use every ounce of their power and will to make it happen.

Then I guess its time to get your rifle and get out there tough guy.

Fark that, this shiathole country isn't worth dying for. This is what you want, you fight for it. I'm out.


Well maybe its not worth dying for its borders or its flag but it is the country that has most of my loved ones and all of my stuff so I'm willing to fight for it.
 
2020-12-02 11:22:13 AM  
2 votes:

Sophont: hugadarn: Sophont: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.

The problem is either you don't believe any of that, or your extremely lazy, or extremely cowardly.  Because if I believed what you are saying; I ...

It's funny how the supposed champions of progress always resort to conservative namecalling when they can't defend their arguments.


Snowflake.
 
2020-12-02 11:17:11 AM  
2 votes:

RobotSpider: This is the prusik-knot that is Republican politics. They slide the rope where they want it, then lock it down while Democrats are in control. Then they slide it a little further, then lock it down. There is no give-and-take. There is only the inexorable march toward authoritarianism. What they did doesn't matter--they had to do it. But if it's not them doing it, it's not happening.


I've never seen this expressed better, and I had to Google "prusik knot."
 
2020-12-02 11:07:05 AM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

So I can't do all of that AND post on Fark about how intransigent Democrats are?

Why do you assume that I'm not calling my POS representative and saying the same things to them? That I'm not also working with and supporting activist groups? Some of us can walk and chew gum.

Nothing you're doing is working. Whining about the fact that I've noticed that, while you don't really seem to care, doesn't solve anything.


What could your representative possibly do with anything you have written here. How is "do something dammit" constructive.
 
2020-12-02 11:00:10 AM  
2 votes:

SolderGlob: Ok, so how does shiatting on Democrats in this thread work to defeat the Republicans


We need to defeat the Republicans in the Democratic Party, especially the ones in leadership position.

how does it enable the Democratic party to pass legislation when the GOP led Senate won't even consider going anywhere near the negotiating table?

It doesn't, because that's their job. It's not my job to help them, certainly not when they act deliberately helpless and look to the GOP to make everything right.
 
2020-12-02 10:52:09 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.


At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?
 
2020-12-02 10:50:03 AM  
2 votes:

Snatch Bandergrip: Lot of Farkers biatch about Snacky but won't put him on ignore.


Hell, they can't even figure out why they're mad at me other than insufficient loyalty and deference to The Party.
 
2020-12-02 10:25:07 AM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.

OK? And?


Dude I'm asking you to clarify exactly what you want done. Both the goal and a strategy for getting there. I'm guessing I'm going to be waiting a long time.
 
2020-12-02 10:25:03 AM  
2 votes:

fzumrk: rewind2846: fzumrk: They "haven't seen those reports" so how can they have an opinion on that.

What year are you living in? Republicans have an "opinion" on shat they have never seen and will never see.

That's only when it serves their purposes. If it's something that makes them look bad or forces them to have a negative opinion of one of their cohorts, then they haven't seen it or they're not ready to comment on it (spoiler: they'll never be ready).


If some MSNBC or FNC commentator has seen the information then it's a really really REALLY safe bet that the powers that be in the republican party have already seen it, likely days before. Still, they say nothing. You would think they'd at least get out in front of it with their usual lies and bullshattery... nada. Nyet. Zero. Goose egg.
 
2020-12-02 10:20:40 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.

There goal is to do nothing so that government shivles and dies. That is a lot easy than trying to get thing done. Look if your apartment was on fire one guy could block the door and keep everyone from getting out safety, but it would take some teamwork to put out the fire and fix the damage.


OK? And?
 
2020-12-02 10:03:24 AM  
2 votes:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


The same one Bernie had.  Well, said he had.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-02 4:35:47 PM  
1 vote:
I'm talking about 40 years, not 4. And if you think I support Republicans by asking Democrats to fight Republicans instead of caving to them at every opportunity, I honestly don't know what your problem could possibly be. Luckily I don't have to see your trolling bullshiat anymore.
 
2020-12-02 3:18:11 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Not at all, he just whined about hypocrisy.

It makes so much sense that you thought that was an ass kicking, your standards are so low as to be nonexistent.


Yes, they are low because Democrats have historically shied away from doing shiat like this. This is the change you've been screaming for and now that it's here it's all of a sudden not enough. I have a notion that when the Democrats take that next step and start utilizing the tactics that the GOP normalized then that won't be enough and you'll continue to criticize them.
 
2020-12-02 3:11:35 PM  
1 vote:

SolderGlob: That's literally what Schumer did in tfa....


Not at all, he just whined about hypocrisy.

It makes so much sense that you thought that was an ass kicking, your standards are so low as to be nonexistent.

Oh, sorry. Democrats need to be constantly criticized, I forgot. Can't ever defend them when they actually do the right thing. God, how Centrist of me to think that.

They didn't do the right thing, they did what they always do and help Republicans control the narrative. Figure it out.
 
2020-12-02 2:59:04 PM  
1 vote:

Sophont: SolderGlob: AdmirableSnackbar: Rwa2play: AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.

If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.

I mean the people ITT and elsewhere who will accept no criticism whatsoever of the Democratic Party and engage in personal attacks against anyone who thinks there's even slight room for improvement.

The criticism has to be justified otherwise it's just whining.

Actual progressives aren't going to keep letting moderates be the arbiters of what is "justified", especially not after literal decades of no criticism at all being accepted as "justified" no matter the evidence presented.

You can't keep droning on that progressive ideas only get support in the deepest, bluest districts when there's evidence and examples of the exact opposite being true. If the polls showing M4A is popular with 60+% of the electorate and 80+% of Democrats isn't enough, the candidates running on M4A and GND winning in purple districts (the chart), or Florida voting for Trump and a $15 min/wage isn't going to convince you, you're making a conscious effort not to be convinced.


That's not my stance at all. In fact, no where on this site have I ever made this argument. You're bringing all your grievances against the "Centrists" and "Moderates" and applying them to anyone that doesn't toe your line. It's pathetic and I respect you enough to know that this is beneath you.
 
2020-12-02 2:26:10 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Precisely. Unfortunately people seem to think that Democrats are perfect and beyond reproach.


If that were the case, the fate of the country wouldn't be depending on the Georgia runoffs.  Instead we'd all be talking about what a $5 Trillion stimulus package would look like in the first 60 days that Biden would be in office.
 
2020-12-02 12:13:23 PM  
1 vote:

Khellendros: Utnapishtim: There is no shortage of detailed plans and good speeches by Democrats, but they will never reach the people that need to hear it.

Your definition of "the people that need to hear it" is the problem.  The group that needs to hear are the 40% of the country that doesn't vote in presidential elections, the 60% that doesn't vote in midterm elections, and the 80%+ that don't vote in off-year elections.

The statistics are pretty clear on this - the entirety of political control in the country is based on voter turnout.  We don't need to change the minds of people who are committed to autocracy and authoritarian right-wing blather.


People are politically disengaged for a wide variety of reasons. Don't you think that it is risky to pin all of your hopes on a group that has proven that they are not willing to participate? I'm not saying its not worth trying to get them engaged, because it definitely is, but they are not a monolithic voting bloc and some of them are just ignorant and lazy. I don't want to necessarily count on them to save us.
 
2020-12-02 11:25:18 AM  
1 vote:
I am waiting for "Trump?  I was always against his policies, what a whacky presidency that was...vote for me!"
 
2020-12-02 11:21:46 AM  
1 vote:
GOP delenda est.
 
2020-12-02 11:15:01 AM  
1 vote:

Sophont: hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: hugadarn: Wow you certainly have created a narrative about things you don't know anything about.  I am a proponents of agressive wealth redistribution, universal health care, and UBI. But, I advocate a specific strategy to move towards those things while trying to stop the bleeding and triage for the most vulnerable populations on the way. I advocate Democrats move away from omnibus legislation and allowing Republicans to add riders to every single bill. Progressive ideas poll well in isolation so try to pass them that way. If that doesn't work try to use referendums at the local level to prove that point.

At what point do you expect Democrats to start working for the things you want?

Thats the point I dont expectanyone to fix this for me. I am involved, I talk to my representatives, and I work with activists.  I don't just complain. I plan.
I'm not trying to be a dick but you're disparaging people who are trying to make a difference and it doesn't sound like your doing jack.

From my point of view, the people you would seem to include in "trying to make a difference" haven't done so in my entire lifetime, and their supposedly careful, measured approach to progress keeps getting stomped on and set back multiple steps and they do absolutely nothing in response.
You're mad because he's disparaging your work. I, and supposedly he, are mad because nothing you're actually working on is solutions to problems but stopgaps that address symptoms of problems that have been festering for years.
It doesn't matter how hard you work to get a tax credit for health insurance enacted, I still won't be able to afford my deductible if something really bad happens, and we have a plethora of healthcare systems from all over the world to choose from where no one worries about bankrupcty if they get sick.


The problem is either you don't believe any of that, or your extremely lazy, or extremely cowardly.  Because if I believed what you are saying; I wouldn't be at work, waiting for a part to come in, dickin around on fark; I'd be plotting a revolution because democracy doesn't work.
 
2020-12-02 11:03:14 AM  
1 vote:

The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?


I think they believe if they just fill up twitter with AOC style quotes (and she's great at framing issues and firing rhetorical broadsides), that magic happens and the "liberal" media suddenly quits amplifying Republicans and starts following the Democratic Progressive agenda.

I mean, it worked for Trump, why doesn't it work when we do it.
 
2020-12-02 10:58:34 AM  
1 vote:

Sin'sHero: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

Firing squad?


For some reason, you put a question mark on your comment.
 
2020-12-02 10:45:46 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: I've offered specifics,

You've literally offered zero specifics. "ACT!" and "DO THINGS!" are literally the least specific things one could say.

When I asked you for specifics you screamed at me that my question was not in good faith. If you have any actual specifics you would like to discuss, I'm happy to. But entertaining you any further at this point is silly.

We're talking about too broad a topic to offer specifics on any one thing. Ultimately it comes down to Democrats need to make an effort to make things happen, not ceding every argument to Republicans and letting Republicans control every conversation, as Schumer is doing here.

There's nothing specific in this case to offer except "do what you want, fark what Republicans want."

But even that's just too much for you to comprehend, so I can't imagine discussing policy implementation to you. It would take centuries and you're not worth the time.


So your specific plan is revolution. All right then! I can get behind that.
 
2020-12-02 10:44:09 AM  
1 vote:

rewind2846: fzumrk: rewind2846: fzumrk: They "haven't seen those reports" so how can they have an opinion on that.

What year are you living in? Republicans have an "opinion" on shat they have never seen and will never see.

That's only when it serves their purposes. If it's something that makes them look bad or forces them to have a negative opinion of one of their cohorts, then they haven't seen it or they're not ready to comment on it (spoiler: they'll never be ready).

If some MSNBC or FNC commentator has seen the information then it's a really really REALLY safe bet that the powers that be in the republican party have already seen it, likely days before. Still, they say nothing. You would think they'd at least get out in front of it with their usual lies and bullshattery... nada. Nyet. Zero. Goose egg.


They're playing Schrodinger's douchebag with their constituents and Trump. They stay silent on controversial issues so that the Trumpers can think that they're on their side and the moderate republicans can think they're on their side.
 
2020-12-02 10:39:05 AM  
1 vote:

hugadarn: AdmirableSnackbar: Pointing out Republican hypocrisy is fun and all but it accomplishes nothing. They don't care; they have no shame. This just shows that the Democrats haven't learned a damn thing, ever. Merrick farking Garland anyone?

We need leadership that actually understands the lay of the land and the nature of Republicans and how to deal with them.

And what exactly should the strategy be? Be specific and show your work.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess it's "cede all power to Bernie Sanders."
 
2020-12-02 10:31:29 AM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: The Homer Tax: AdmirableSnackbar: Go about your agenda without regard for Republican howling. Be merciless, pull every lever you need to pull to get the job done. Stop relying on Republican support or approval to do anything, just farking do what your voter base wants.

It's called governing, and I understand how you don't know what it is; you've never seen it before from Democrats.

How specifically do you "just do the things you want to do" in the American Legislative system without the Senate?

Republicans did it when they only had the House and Democrats had the White House and Senate. Figure it out.


So, you want the Democrats to hold a gun to America's proverbial head and use the threat of shutting down the Federal government to force the GOP to operate in good faith?
 
2020-12-02 10:23:12 AM  
1 vote:
Republicans do not negotiate in good faith.  You get more traction by wrapping an aluminum baseball bat around their skull.
 
2020-12-02 10:21:04 AM  
1 vote:

Catlenfell: Now integrity is important to them.  I wonder what changed?


As with all hypocrites, someone elses integrity/honesty/actions will always be more important than their own.
"______ for thee, none for me"
 
2020-12-02 10:21:03 AM  
1 vote:

rewind2846: fzumrk: They "haven't seen those reports" so how can they have an opinion on that.

What year are you living in? Republicans have an "opinion" on shat they have never seen and will never see.


That's only when it serves their purposes. If it's something that makes them look bad or forces them to have a negative opinion of one of their cohorts, then they haven't seen it or they're not ready to comment on it (spoiler: they'll never be ready).
 
2020-12-02 10:12:54 AM  
1 vote:

MattytheMouse: And they should keep it up


Then why are you complaining?
 
2020-12-02 10:01:17 AM  
1 vote:

MattytheMouse: Diogenes: MattytheMouse: I am psychic. I can forecast the future.

Biden's presidency is going to suck, but we're gonna wind up overlooking a lot of it, because republicans will spend all their time biatching about Hunter Biden's vore porn collection rather than Biden rebranding ICE detention facilities as permanent daycares, or whatever.

It's been done.  Expanded drone use, surveillance?   Pish.  Obama wore a tan suit and had odd choices in condiments.

Do you have The Shine, too?


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Don't be readin' my mind between 4 and 5, that's Willie's time!
 
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