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(CNBC)   Salesforce picks up the Slack   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Stock market, London Stock Exchange, Revenue, Slack's shares, Marc Benioff, Stock, Software development, Fiscal year  
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2217 clicks; posted to Main » and Business » on 01 Dec 2020 at 6:25 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-01 5:39:17 PM  
Maybe they can hire some developers
 
2020-12-01 5:57:29 PM  
27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?
 
2020-12-01 6:20:28 PM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


They paid $15 billion for crappier online Excel.....I mean Tableau.

Not exactly sure what they are aiming for here.
 
2020-12-01 6:24:11 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?

They paid $15 billion for crappier online Excel.....I mean Tableau.

Not exactly sure what they are aiming for here.


Normally when I see these kinds of numbers and companies I assume that the Japanese money laundering powerhouse of SoftBank is involved

/I can think of no other reason for the things SoftBank does
 
2020-12-01 6:30:32 PM  

Gubbo: DoBeDoBeDo: Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?

They paid $15 billion for crappier online Excel.....I mean Tableau.

Not exactly sure what they are aiming for here.

Normally when I see these kinds of numbers and companies I assume that the Japanese money laundering powerhouse of SoftBank is involved

/I can think of no other reason for the things SoftBank does


Ehh could just be for licensing revenue.  Just keep them as separate companies doing their thing, though a Slack integration in SFDC would be nice as Chatter is "meh" at best.  But the companies they are picking up seem to have healthy revenue streams.
 
2020-12-01 6:36:29 PM  
I've learned not to question too much the acquisitions that Salesforce has done. In the early days when they were buying things, I thought they were just being immature with their vision, being too grand. But they've turned most of them into integral pieces of their platform. They seem to be able to integrate a higher percentage of acquisitions than their competitors.

I can't envision a 27b investment getting them even that back, but, I've doubted them in the past and they are a hell of a competitor.
 
2020-12-01 6:37:42 PM  
What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?
 
2020-12-01 6:40:03 PM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


27 billion for a platform with logs that contain admin credentials and vital trade secrets for thousands of companies.

/ or, yes, literally ICQ or IRC with slightly easier gif posting and 500x the memory footprint.
 
2020-12-01 6:44:48 PM  

studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?


The notification settings are easier to configure to something sane than email clients are, despite complaints about them being terrible. They're much better than email, especially in the hands of a non-nerd. And the UI is far less generally-shiat than Facebook, though still not great.
 
2020-12-01 6:45:41 PM  
Salesforce was so bad/bloated (in my very limited experience).  Then again, could be the company that I worked for and their implementation of it.
 
2020-12-01 6:45:50 PM  
My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"
 
2020-12-01 6:49:38 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 6:50:45 PM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


IRC for modern times, effectively.
 
2020-12-01 6:51:16 PM  

durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"


All their developer-wrangling stuff makes way more sense when you consider it as being 100% designed for middle managers and PMs, with zero regard for how useful or usable it is for people actually making things, even though they are like 95% of the users.
 
2020-12-01 6:53:11 PM  
i.ebayimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 6:53:26 PM  

studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?


Slack is a lot more like a modern IRC alternative.

I like it, but I can't fathom why companies pay money for it.
 
2020-12-01 6:55:41 PM  
(And, of course, I'm late to the party...)
 
2020-12-01 6:56:16 PM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


It's Skype and Zoom but a different name.
 
2020-12-01 6:56:25 PM  

durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"


That's middleware for you.

I haven't used it or it's competitors myself, but from what I understand, these thigns exist to make oil and water mix; when done right, the results can be fantastic - but when done wrong, it just makes a mess.
 
2020-12-01 6:58:12 PM  

fallingcow: durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"

All their developer-wrangling stuff makes way more sense when you consider it as being 100% designed for middle managers and PMs, with zero regard for how useful or usable it is for people actually making things, even though they are like 95% of the users.


Yep. The developers aren't the ones buying it though, it is the PM's and middle managers with the purse strings, so it is they who is the target market for the sale.
 
2020-12-01 6:58:17 PM  
BFD
 
2020-12-01 7:00:15 PM  

durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"


I've never used a vanilla salesforce instance before. It's always some cobbled together frankenstein monster of 3rd party plug-ins, homemade API calls, etc.

I don't love Salesforce, but I've used a lot worse.
 
2020-12-01 7:02:02 PM  

Fara Clark: BFD


Its a BFD to me! I bought a chunk of Slack back in April or May and its been bleeding all year! Now I'm up 40% in 7 months.
 
2020-12-01 7:06:00 PM  
Of course while I'm dissing this, I'm begging my company to let me use Trello, which is just a glorified task list.

So what do I know
 
2020-12-01 7:19:19 PM  
Now both of them can stop biatching about Microsoft and Google
 
2020-12-01 7:23:37 PM  
th.bing.comView Full Size

slack is something
you just can't buy
 
2020-12-01 7:23:45 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Slack is a lot more like a modern IRC alternative.

I like it, but I can't fathom why companies pay money for it.


My company has Skype for corporate communication, although we're going to Microsoft Teams soon.

My office, though, uses RocketChat, because for 30 users, a small VM is powerful enough to host chat and memes, and sometimes it's nice to communicate outside the grasp of Big Corporate. And if the boss says I need to delete the database, then sudo rm -rf and it's gone.
 
2020-12-01 7:24:14 PM  
Using Slack at work right now.  I had no idea this was such a big deal.
 
2020-12-01 7:34:39 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?

Slack is a lot more like a modern IRC alternative.

I like it, but I can't fathom why companies pay money for it.


Because IRC is really damn useful, but everybody wants somebody else to run the server.
 
2020-12-01 7:39:07 PM  
*shudder* Salesforce.

As someone who was a CRM Admin and also processed data from clients out of Salesforce, I've come to loathe that company.
 
2020-12-01 7:47:47 PM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


Its like everything else, and probably countless products alphabet and the likes rolled out, blew people's mind, but nobody used them right.

I've seen organizations use it to tremendous benefit. I've seen some use it where it basically comes off as a somewhat rudimentary version of AIM.

Its all about how you do it. Same thing with Teams, Discord, etc.

Notes in its hayday was a hell of a product and probably best in class and ahead of its time in many respects compared to the competition. Problem was nobody used it to its potential, and that is why we are all on exchange and gmail today.
 
2020-12-01 7:50:04 PM  
Oh and the ones where it comes off as rudimentary is usually because they have 3 or 4 other platforms that are competing with it in its space. "Yeah, we do teams, but we also expect our folks to monitor these slack channels, and we use pagerduty for broadcasts, and then we have a homegrown thing that manages....."

So everyone half asses it on all platforms, biatches about all of them because they aren't using it right, and none can displace the others and shine.
 
2020-12-01 7:55:52 PM  

durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"


This is consistent with almost all enterprise grade software.

Hell, the more expensive it is, the shiattier it is.
 
2020-12-01 7:58:30 PM  
We've been using Mattermost, it's essentially the same thing. It's a group focused chat platform.
It doesn't seem mature yet but then again neither does Skype/Lync.
 
2020-12-01 8:03:48 PM  

Magnanimous_J: durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"

I've never used a vanilla salesforce instance before. It's always some cobbled together frankenstein monster of 3rd party plug-ins, homemade API calls, etc.

I don't love Salesforce, but I've used a lot worse.


That's what we've got.  Frankenstein's monster.
Speaking as an analyst who needs to pull reports from it, the best I can say is that I've found ways to make it functional.  But it is torture having to build anything new.
 
2020-12-01 8:05:57 PM  

Gonz: we're going to Microsoft Teams soon.


Ugh.  Corporate likes Teams.  They tried to run a 200-participant video meeting over Teams a few months ago, and the video and audio quality were both total poop festivals.  Subsequent meetings have been done over Zoom, with much better results.

When Slack became a thing a lot of people used at my orkplace, a weird thing happened:  People started treating the Slack "channels" as things that would always be around, and would always be searchable.  This is antithetical to how any SaaS company operates.  For a few weeks, corporate tried to get everyone off Slack and using Teams instead.  They failed.  The user interface in Teams is worse, Teams didn't have that several years worth of stored knowledge, and they ultimately decided it was worth it to reactivate Slack for a bunch of users.

I've been copy-pasting anything important anyone posts in Slack to a set of text files in my ~/dev/slack-archives/ for the last few years, but not everyone knows how to do that or can think that far ahead.  Today's users do not seem to understand the differences among "your local hard disk", "the cloud", "amazon glacier", "your phone", and "a removable USB2 disk".  I think this is deliberate obfuscation by marketing bozos.  ICBW.  YMMV.
 
2020-12-01 8:17:02 PM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


Pretty much. It does have some nice integration/API type features. Like if you're running a build on a server and it fails, you can get it to notify you via Slack.

But it's a dumb farking business, especially since Teams came along. If you tell corporate IT that they can get Teams for Free AND it's from Microsoft and completely integrates with O365 Enterprise and Exchange server, and does more than Slack, Slack is toast. Corporates are heavily about Microsoft stuff. It's a no-brainer to bolt on the Microsoft tool that is also free and integrates with the corporate directory.
 
2020-12-01 8:17:57 PM  

studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 8:27:06 PM  
A company I know looked at implementing Slack but decided to go open source and use RocketChat (which met their needs).  They've got decent tech people though.  Slack seems a tad bloated.
 
2020-12-01 8:39:41 PM  

trialpha: This is consistent with almost all enterprise grade software.

Hell, the more expensive it is, the shiattier it is.


I have a rough rule with software: if the company doesn't put a price tag on it, it's garbage. And that doesn't matter how much it is. Could be £5K or more, could be £100/user/month. And it's fine to say "volume licensing deals available call us". But what matters is that you can buy it off the shelf. No salesmen have to call, no consultants come in.

Because if it has a price tag, it also means small companies, companies too small to warrant a sales guy will buy it. And those companies generally consult between management and the people who use it every day. If it's garbage software, it never gets in. In a huge place, senior management are targeted. No-one asks the little people to check over a piece of software.

I've used a load of different bug/work management systems, and the corporate ones with big names on like HP are utter farking garbage compared to tools like Jira and Fogbugz where the price/month is upfront.
 
2020-12-01 8:47:04 PM  

danceswithcrows: Gonz: we're going to Microsoft Teams soon.

Ugh.  Corporate likes Teams.  They tried to run a 200-participant video meeting over Teams a few months ago, and the video and audio quality were both total poop festivals.  Subsequent meetings have been done over Zoom, with much better results.


Not sure how much of it is due to "like" versus "we're already paying for it anyway".

We use both Teams and Zoom. The rule of thumb here is to use Teams for 1:1 or small groups and Zoom for larger/external audiences and/or more complex features like breakout rooms. Each work fine within their realms.

/And for folks who don't already know, Skype for Business is EOL in June so you're moving to another platform regardless.
 
2020-12-01 8:48:33 PM  

SteelBoots: Slack seems a tad bloated.


How's it compare to the bloated warthog called Teams?
 
2020-12-01 8:58:14 PM  
Good headline, Subby.
 
2020-12-01 9:20:29 PM  
We use Slack at Apple and it is integrated very well with our internal systems and I did not like it at first but now I really do not mind using it.
 
2020-12-01 9:21:16 PM  

danceswithcrows: Ugh.  Corporate likes Teams.  They tried to run a 200-participant video meeting over Teams a few months ago, and the video and audio quality were both total poop festivals.  Subsequent meetings have been done over Zoom, with much better results.


Teams is used because it works with all the other Microsoft products i.e. Outlook, Calendar etc

(that's the theory anyway)
 
2020-12-01 10:01:09 PM  

vudukungfu: Maybe they can hire some developers


How long until the different AIs do not need programmers?

South American online retailer red box return program suggests a major change through what seems like a learned process beyond what has been seen before in retail online sales. Maybe it's a a temporary reaction to the current sales cycle or maybe it's another step in the goal of the reduction of waste in letting widget buyers think they can control their purchases and dopamine fix. You won't get a credit when you drop off. You will have to wait until it is received and processed.

It's starting to look like you won't a choice. Things will just show up on your doorstep and you will be charged. The AI will know what you have been programed to want and it will get them to you. It's better for the environment anyway. Ever wonder about all the waste in buying online and returning widgets? How about the man hours, fuel, and landfills? The current waste is insane.

Or maybe not. Well, I'm off to buy some Chinese widgets online and return them the day after I get them.
 
2020-12-01 10:13:59 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: vudukungfu: Maybe they can hire some developers

How long until the different AIs do not need programmers?

South American online retailer red box return program suggests a major change through what seems like a learned process beyond what has been seen before in retail online sales. Maybe it's a a temporary reaction to the current sales cycle or maybe it's another step in the goal of the reduction of waste in letting widget buyers think they can control their purchases and dopamine fix. You won't get a credit when you drop off. You will have to wait until it is received and processed.

It's starting to look like you won't a choice. Things will just show up on your doorstep and you will be charged. The AI will know what you have been programed to want and it will get them to you. It's better for the environment anyway. Ever wonder about all the waste in buying online and returning widgets? How about the man hours, fuel, and landfills? The current waste is insane.

Or maybe not. Well, I'm off to buy some Chinese widgets online and return them the day after I get them.


South American retailer Red Box?
 
2020-12-01 10:17:25 PM  

stuartp9: Teams is used because [[the lusers who don't have to use it think that it]] works with all the other Microsoft products


FTFY.  AFAICT, every single message I have received through Teams in the last 4 months has been completely irrelevant to anything I've actually been doing.  Your Organization May Vary.  OTOH, IME there is absolutely every reason to tell Teams to STFU and GTFO.  YMMV.  OTOH, you have provided no/flimsy evidence that you have any idea what you are talking about.  Provide that.
 
2020-12-01 10:22:26 PM  
Yeah, the Salesforce "experts" in my office are already a bunch of slackers so this is kind of redundant. :-D
 
2020-12-01 10:45:20 PM  
external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size


*sigh* CEO Stuart Butterfield's Glitch in-game avatar snapped while dozing off before the game was shut down

Flickr was a result of Stuart Butterfield's first game failing and a pivot to using its database for pictures, it was called Game Neverending

Slack was a result of Stuart Butterfield's second game failing and a pivot to using its messaging system, it was called Glitch. My kids and I got into it as it was an MMO that was accessible and nonviolent, even though kids below the age of 14 weren't supposed to be allowed to play. Think of it as an adult drugged out version of Club Penguin, with psychedelic drugs and brew your own alcohol. There's a project to bring Glitch back, but it's hardly complete and not the same without the community.

The joke was that Butterfield should try a third game once he's done with Slack, maybe it will stick this time. He's certainly got the money now.
 
2020-12-01 10:48:23 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: How long until the different AIs do not need programmers?


When we no longer need mechanics to fix internal combustion engines then you can panic with an actual reason.
 
2020-12-01 10:51:09 PM  

smd31: Salesforce was so bad/bloated (in my very limited experience).  Then again, could be the company that I worked for and their implementation of it.


All the cloud CRM/ERP systems are good at one thing: siphoning money from the company bottom line. Everyone's implementation is bad because if it was good, there would be no reason to give them more money.

We use NetSuite ... god I hate it so much. We're about to drop another $80k a year on it because the VP complains that it's "slow". Never-mind  all the crappy, consultant-written code my predecessors saddled it with.
 
2020-12-01 10:53:39 PM  
I implemented sfdc at our company 15 years ago and remained the Sr admin for 10 years. I formerly had no background in implementations nor CRM. ( I was to head up a never before created small accounts division. I said show me the database and they had none)
So I shopped and discovered  salesforce and sold it to department heads. It became an integral hub in all operations. 450 employees but I could only get budget for 70.
Now I operate my own small bz, can't afford one single license nor could I fathom the time it takes to implement again. I miss its power terribly - for reporting and analytics. Went and glanced recently under the hood after 5 years away and don't even recognize. and couldn't begin to jump back in.
I didn't think sfdc  could continue its growth and thought it was extremely overpriced and competition would strangle it. Boy was I wrong.
 
2020-12-01 11:06:30 PM  

danceswithcrows: When Slack became a thing a lot of people used at my orkplace, a weird thing happened:  People started treating the Slack "channels" as things that would always be around, and would always be searchable.


The single best thing that happened for me was that the guy who initially installed the RocketChat server for us wasn't a Linux guy. I didn't even get a login on the VM until we'd been running for about 2 weeks.

Once I got one, the first thing I noticed was the sheer amount of updates and security patches the machine needed. OK, update, upgrade, and reboot. Except, somehow, that destroyed the ability of the MongoDB to restart. After futzing around for the better part of a day, I realized the easiest solution was just to blow everything away and reinstall from scratch. It worked, we've never had an issue since, and no one expects anything in RC to be permanent.

Same guy went with a non-LTS version of Ubuntu Server as the VM OS. Imagine my surprise in July when my server went EOL. Y'ever do an OS update over a corporate VPN? It's delicate.
 
2020-12-01 11:10:16 PM  

cfreak: smd31: Salesforce was so bad/bloated (in my very limited experience).  Then again, could be the company that I worked for and their implementation of it.

All the cloud CRM/ERP systems are good at one thing: siphoning money from the company bottom line. Everyone's implementation is bad because if it was good, there would be no reason to give them more money.

We use NetSuite ... god I hate it so much. We're about to drop another $80k a year on it because the VP complains that it's "slow". Never-mind  all the crappy, consultant-written code my predecessors saddled it with.


I had never heard of NetSuite, and so I tried to look it up.  All I could find were pages that tried to get my email address so they could send salespeople after me.  I can't even find a reasonable description of what it does other than "NetSuite software is an online service that enables companies to manage all key business processes in a single system" which even I know is a giant screaming red flag of corporate parasites.

Companies like this do what they do, badly, because their clients do not understand what they do and that means they never have to get better at it.

shiat, look at something like Jenkins.  It is free.  It is also farking awful, but everyone uses it because it's free, so they have no competition and therefore no reason to stop sucking.

/I swear to god when I die I will probably have a web page open with a google search for 'Why can't Jenkins do X without farking it up'
 
2020-12-02 12:30:50 AM  
Slack is cool, but with so many companies going to Office 365, Teams integration with Cisco Jabber, Slack will quickly become an also-ran. Sure, Slack has some nice integration with Jira and other tools, but that's easily replicated in Teams.
 
2020-12-02 12:52:40 AM  
Why do people write (or even worse, say) SFDC?

If you're from the year 2000, please warn everyone about 9/11.
 
2020-12-02 1:02:25 AM  

durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"


I'm not disagreeing with you, but compare that to Slack's interface. It's much cleaner and intuitive. Perhaps this kind of design is what Salesforce is looking to integrate into their platform?
 
2020-12-02 2:00:54 AM  
If you are doing large town halls with that large of amount people tell your devs to stand up a Wowza server in AWS then publish the video to a webpage. I use to build wowza servers and host thousands of people for town halls at my old company because all of these video collab tools can't hold that many people with out going tits up. Those wowza servers are tanks and with the thousands of streams I had going thru it the computers never blinked. Cisco even took them and piled various crap on top of them then tried to sell back to us for ten times the cost. If you need large town halls wowza is the way to go.
 
2020-12-02 2:01:50 AM  

danceswithcrows: Gonz: we're going to Microsoft Teams soon.

Ugh.  Corporate likes Teams.  They tried to run a 200-participant video meeting over Teams a few months ago, and the video and audio quality were both total poop festivals.  Subsequent meetings have been done over Zoom, with much better results.

When Slack became a thing a lot of people used at my orkplace, a weird thing happened:  People started treating the Slack "channels" as things that would always be around, and would always be searchable.  This is antithetical to how any SaaS company operates.  For a few weeks, corporate tried to get everyone off Slack and using Teams instead.  They failed.  The user interface in Teams is worse, Teams didn't have that several years worth of stored knowledge, and they ultimately decided it was worth it to reactivate Slack for a bunch of users.

I've been copy-pasting anything important anyone posts in Slack to a set of text files in my ~/dev/slack-archives/ for the last few years, but not everyone knows how to do that or can think that far ahead.  Today's users do not seem to understand the differences among "your local hard disk", "the cloud", "amazon glacier", "your phone", and "a removable USB2 disk".  I think this is deliberate obfuscation by marketing bozos.  ICBW.  YMMV.


If you are doing large town halls with that large of amount people tell your devs to stand up a Wowza server in AWS then publish the video to a webpage. I use to build wowza servers and host thousands of people for town halls at my old company because all of these video collab tools can't hold that many people with out going tits up. Those wowza servers are tanks and with the thousands of streams I had going thru it the computers never blinked. Cisco even took them and piled various crap on top of them then tried to sell back to us for ten times the cost. If you need large town halls wowza is the way to go.
 
2020-12-02 2:47:51 AM  

danceswithcrows: Ugh.  Corporate likes Teams.  They tried to run a 200-participant video meeting over Teams a few months ago, and the video and audio quality were both total poop festivals.  Subsequent meetings have been done over Zoom, with much better results.


Honest question: what kind of meeting needs 200+ people to be on video at the same time? If it's a presentation-style conference, then you'd have at most several presenters and then everyone else is simply an attendant. There's zero value added by them being on camera. If it's a round-table thing where many people take turns speaking, you can turn on the camera when it's your turn.
 
2020-12-02 2:52:15 AM  

SteelBoots: A company I know looked at implementing Slack but decided to go open source and use RocketChat (which met their needs).  They've got decent tech people though.  Slack seems a tad bloated.


Get ready for it to become even more bloated. Salesforce's target audience is sales and marketing people, and they aren't used to typing / commands to do something, they need to see buttons. Pretty, shiny buttons.
 
2020-12-02 6:16:19 AM  

neaorin: danceswithcrows: Ugh.  Corporate likes Teams.  They tried to run a 200-participant video meeting over Teams a few months ago, and the video and audio quality were both total poop festivals.  Subsequent meetings have been done over Zoom, with much better results.

Honest question: what kind of meeting needs 200+ people to be on video at the same time? If it's a presentation-style conference, then you'd have at most several presenters and then everyone else is simply an attendant. There's zero value added by them being on camera. If it's a round-table thing where many people take turns speaking, you can turn on the camera when it's your turn.


This is the sort of thing where people take what was from the past and just add technology rather than thinking about how to use the technology.

What this should be is a hosted video presentation. Not live, pre-recorded. Everyone gets a link, watches it when it suits them most, and then you collect questions from people by them sending emails and you send back answers. The idea of people having to be on a presentation at a particular time (often for some corporate crap that doesn't matter much) is outdated.

When people do a presentation lots of people don't want to ask a question, or they haven't digested what they've been told yet.
 
2020-12-02 6:41:05 AM  

toraque: cfreak: smd31: Salesforce was so bad/bloated (in my very limited experience).  Then again, could be the company that I worked for and their implementation of it.

All the cloud CRM/ERP systems are good at one thing: siphoning money from the company bottom line. Everyone's implementation is bad because if it was good, there would be no reason to give them more money.

We use NetSuite ... god I hate it so much. We're about to drop another $80k a year on it because the VP complains that it's "slow". Never-mind  all the crappy, consultant-written code my predecessors saddled it with.

I had never heard of NetSuite, and so I tried to look it up.  All I could find were pages that tried to get my email address so they could send salespeople after me.  I can't even find a reasonable description of what it does other than "NetSuite software is an online service that enables companies to manage all key business processes in a single system" which even I know is a giant screaming red flag of corporate parasites.

Companies like this do what they do, badly, because their clients do not understand what they do and that means they never have to get better at it.

shiat, look at something like Jenkins.  It is free.  It is also farking awful, but everyone uses it because it's free, so they have no competition and therefore no reason to stop sucking.

/I swear to god when I die I will probably have a web page open with a google search for 'Why can't Jenkins do X without farking it up'


Yep. That's so true. It's marketed at clueless PHBs who don't understand why they shouldn't throw good money after bad. It's also owned by Oracle so the pricing is designed specifically to buy Larry another yacht. (To be fair it wasn't when my company first implemented it)

We are not large at all. Profit in the $2 million range each year. Still in the last 10 years we've given $1 million directly to NetSuite, another to consultants and another $2 million to our own developers to code around the limitations to avoid giving Oracle even more.  It's really not moved the needle on sales much. It all could have been done for far less.

Weirdly I don't have any real issues with Jenkins. I have a guy that knows it pretty well though. Between he and I we have it automating a bunch of stuff. Maybe it's because we deal with NetSuite by comparison.
 
2020-12-02 6:50:22 AM  

toraque: I had never heard of NetSuite, and so I tried to look it up.  All I could find were pages that tried to get my email address so they could send salespeople after me.  I can't even find a reasonable description of what it does other than "NetSuite software is an online service that enables companies to manage all key business processes in a single system" which even I know is a giant screaming red flag of corporate parasites.

Companies like this do what they do, badly, because their clients do not understand what they do and that means they never have to get better at it.

shiat, look at something like Jenkins.  It is free.  It is also farking awful, but everyone uses it because it's free, so they have no competition and therefore no reason to stop sucking.


This is the double edged thing of large corporations and purchasing.

Large corporations put a lot of purchasing power at senior management level, often people highly detached from the work. And they often, frankly, don't know what they're doing and just buy names they've heard of based on golf sponsorship or who everyone else uses. And those companies (and Netsuite is part of Oracle) are mostly about sales and legal. They know how to sell to senior management. They want to avoid getting the actual staff or systems people involved within that company because they know bullshiat.

The other side to that concentration is that it's hard to buy anything non-standard in a corporate bureaucracy. Now, I'm a fan of a whole lot of open source software, but there is open source and free software used in companies simply because that means no-one has to go through the bullshiat of approval and purchasing. You also see people spending a week writing a Javascript component because ordering a $30 component is such a hassle.

One of the reasons I like smaller companies is that you are always talking to the guy trading capital for labour. You tell him that Resharper helps your work and costs $10/month, he isn't going to ask many questions. That's 15 minutes of your time. That's all it has to save to be worth paying for. Or how we could wire shiat up to send SMS messages, but there's this gateway, and it'll cost us a few dollars/month.

BTW Visual Studio Devops is free and awesome compared to Jenkins.
 
2020-12-02 6:50:49 AM  

dj_bigbird: Slack is cool, but with so many companies going to Office 365, Teams integration with Cisco Jabber, Slack will quickly become an also-ran. Sure, Slack has some nice integration with Jira and other tools, but that's easily replicated in Teams.


You would think that but Microsoft is still in the "embrace and extend" mindset. Teams doesn't integrate all that well except in other Microsoft products where it's basically spamming me to use it.

It's like OneDrive. On paper OneDrive sounds great! A built in file-sharing system similar to Dropbox. I could get rid of Dropbox and the stupid file-sharing server.  But OneDrive is built on top of Sharepoint. Instead of just dropping files it's all links and they are constantly broken. You can set up "locations" that are folder like on the desktop machines but half the time they don't update. So I'm still paying for Dropbox and for file sharing.

Slack is better for developers though recently they seem intent on killing that off. I am loathe to give Salesforce money though so I'm going to be searching for an alternative.
 
2020-12-02 6:55:38 AM  

farkeruk: toraque: I had never heard of NetSuite, and so I tried to look it up.  All I could find were pages that tried to get my email address so they could send salespeople after me.  I can't even find a reasonable description of what it does other than "NetSuite software is an online service that enables companies to manage all key business processes in a single system" which even I know is a giant screaming red flag of corporate parasites.

Companies like this do what they do, badly, because their clients do not understand what they do and that means they never have to get better at it.

shiat, look at something like Jenkins.  It is free.  It is also farking awful, but everyone uses it because it's free, so they have no competition and therefore no reason to stop sucking.

This is the double edged thing of large corporations and purchasing.

Large corporations put a lot of purchasing power at senior management level, often people highly detached from the work. And they often, frankly, don't know what they're doing and just buy names they've heard of based on golf sponsorship or who everyone else uses. And those companies (and Netsuite is part of Oracle) are mostly about sales and legal. They know how to sell to senior management. They want to avoid getting the actual staff or systems people involved within that company because they know bullshiat.

The other side to that concentration is that it's hard to buy anything non-standard in a corporate bureaucracy. Now, I'm a fan of a whole lot of open source software, but there is open source and free software used in companies simply because that means no-one has to go through the bullshiat of approval and purchasing. You also see people spending a week writing a Javascript component because ordering a $30 component is such a hassle.

One of the reasons I like smaller companies is that you are always talking to the guy trading capital for labour. You tell him that Resharper helps your work and costs $10/month, he isn't going to ask many questions. That's 15 minutes of your time. That's all it has to save to be worth paying for. Or how we could wire shiat up to send SMS messages, but there's this gateway, and it'll cost us a few dollars/month.

BTW Visual Studio Devops is free and awesome compared to Jenkins.


Sadly NetSuite is marketed at smaller companies like mine. The real hell begins at Oracle ERP that they try to get the really big kids to buy.

I'll have to check out VS DevOps. I hadn't heard of that.
 
2020-12-02 7:03:46 AM  

ox45tallboy: durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"

I'm not disagreeing with you, but compare that to Slack's interface. It's much cleaner and intuitive. Perhaps this kind of design is what Salesforce is looking to integrate into their platform?


I don't even know what Slack is.  But from reading this thread, it sounds like it's essentially a chat/IM app.  Something that SF currently lacks.  Such to the extent that my company uses Teams for all that sort of thing.

So it would be an improvement/addition to SF's functionality, not a replacement.
 
2020-12-02 8:20:46 AM  

durbnpoisn: ox45tallboy: durbnpoisn: My company uses SalesForce.  I've seen many such platforms.  This is supposed to be the cream of the crop?

I think I speak for most people that use it when I say, it's a pile of shiat.  A huge, confusing, inconsistent, unreliable, buggy, difficult to use, pile of shiat.

It's like they had 1000 developers all working on different parts of the thing, never communicated with each other, then just slapped all the modules together and said, "perfect!"

I'm not disagreeing with you, but compare that to Slack's interface. It's much cleaner and intuitive. Perhaps this kind of design is what Salesforce is looking to integrate into their platform?

I don't even know what Slack is.  But from reading this thread, it sounds like it's essentially a chat/IM app.  Something that SF currently lacks.  Such to the extent that my company uses Teams for all that sort of thing.

So it would be an improvement/addition to SF's functionality, not a replacement.


oh, so a "feature" then?

Wonderful
 
2020-12-02 10:16:14 AM  

Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?


It's a shiatty version of Discord with a bunch of corporate PR attached to it.
 
2020-12-02 10:36:45 AM  

trerro: Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?

It's a shiatty version of Discord with a bunch of corporate PR attached to it.


Weird. We've been using Discord for pen-and-paper RPGs during These Our Times of COVID, and I'd have called Discord the shiatty version of Discord.
 
2020-12-02 11:08:25 AM  

studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?


FB? Why would a company use FB for employee communications? AT my previous job, I got maybe one legit email a week. All of my interaction with users was either thru Slack or Zoom. Not only that, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of bots and integrations that can be used. People were able to submit IT tickets in Slack, we had an AI bot that could take a question, search the wiki space, and provide an answer. Slack is quicker than email, and a lot easier to track conversations in.

dj_bigbird: Slack is cool, but with so many companies going to Office 365, Teams integration with Cisco Jabber, Slack will quickly become an also-ran. Sure, Slack has some nice integration with Jira and other tools, but that's easily replicated in Teams.


Sorry, Teams is the 'also ran', trailing Slack by a year or two, at least. I used both side by side when Teams was first rolling out, and it was also my first experience with Slack. Slack is the better platform.
 
2020-12-02 11:09:18 AM  

fallingcow: trerro: Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?

It's a shiatty version of Discord with a bunch of corporate PR attached to it.

Weird. We've been using Discord for pen-and-paper RPGs during These Our Times of COVID, and I'd have called Discord the shiatty version of Discord.


People keep telling me that discord is great. But I'll be damned if I know how to find anything on it.
 
2020-12-02 11:17:54 AM  

Gubbo: fallingcow: trerro: Gubbo: 27 billion for....what exactly is slack. I always assume it's like a glorified instant messenger platform?

It's a shiatty version of Discord with a bunch of corporate PR attached to it.

Weird. We've been using Discord for pen-and-paper RPGs during These Our Times of COVID, and I'd have called Discord the shiatty version of Discord.

People keep telling me that discord is great. But I'll be damned if I know how to find anything on it.


Every time I want to change my display name for a session I have to click like all five different settings buttons that are on the screen at a given time, before I find the one that has that in it.
 
2020-12-02 11:23:24 AM  

Mikey1969: studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?

FB? Why would a company use FB for employee communications? AT my previous job, I got maybe one legit email a week. All of my interaction with users was either thru Slack or Zoom. Not only that, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of bots and integrations that can be used. People were able to submit IT tickets in Slack, we had an AI bot that could take a question, search the wiki space, and provide an answer. Slack is quicker than email, and a lot easier to track conversations in.

dj_bigbird: Slack is cool, but with so many companies going to Office 365, Teams integration with Cisco Jabber, Slack will quickly become an also-ran. Sure, Slack has some nice integration with Jira and other tools, but that's easily replicated in Teams.

Sorry, Teams is the 'also ran', trailing Slack by a year or two, at least. I used both side by side when Teams was first rolling out, and it was also my first experience with Slack. Slack is the better platform.


Teams is terrible and Slack is way the fark better, but being better isn't how you make enterprise sales.

Closer Salesforce integration and (especially) bundling might give Slack a long-term fighting chance for markets other than startups. Teams was gonna be a serious problem for them. Every company of any size subscribes to O365, so has Teams, but they also all use Salesforce. The only problem is that O365 is usually available to and used by most or all of the company, while Salesforce tools typically are not. This may actually be a play to push out tools that don't cost a farkton per seat and are useful for more than one or two departments (unlike most Salesforce stuff) to a broader set of enterprise users, using Slack as the camel's nose.
 
2020-12-02 1:34:09 PM  

Mikey1969: studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?

FB? Why would a company use FB for employee communications? AT my previous job, I got maybe one legit email a week. All of my interaction with users was either thru Slack or Zoom. Not only that, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of bots and integrations that can be used. People were able to submit IT tickets in Slack, we had an AI bot that could take a question, search the wiki space, and provide an answer. Slack is quicker than email, and a lot easier to track conversations in.

dj_bigbird: Slack is cool, but with so many companies going to Office 365, Teams integration with Cisco Jabber, Slack will quickly become an also-ran. Sure, Slack has some nice integration with Jira and other tools, but that's easily replicated in Teams.

Sorry, Teams is the 'also ran', trailing Slack by a year or two, at least. I used both side by side when Teams was first rolling out, and it was also my first experience with Slack. Slack is the better platform.


I'm not saying Teams is better, I'm just saying that's where things are headed.
 
2020-12-02 6:45:33 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?

Slack is a lot more like a modern IRC alternative.

I like it, but I can't fathom why companies pay money for it.


Back-end analytics.  Apparently.
 
2020-12-02 10:37:49 PM  

theflatline: StoPPeRmobile: vudukungfu: Maybe they can hire some developers

How long until the different AIs do not need programmers?

South American online retailer red box return program suggests a major change through what seems like a learned process beyond what has been seen before in retail online sales. Maybe it's a a temporary reaction to the current sales cycle or maybe it's another step in the goal of the reduction of waste in letting widget buyers think they can control their purchases and dopamine fix. You won't get a credit when you drop off. You will have to wait until it is received and processed.

It's starting to look like you won't a choice. Things will just show up on your doorstep and you will be charged. The AI will know what you have been programed to want and it will get them to you. It's better for the environment anyway. Ever wonder about all the waste in buying online and returning widgets? How about the man hours, fuel, and landfills? The current waste is insane.

Or maybe not. Well, I'm off to buy some Chinese widgets online and return them the day after I get them.

South American retailer Red Box?


What the name of a large river in South America?
 
2020-12-02 11:29:38 PM  

Flab: Fark_Guy_Rob: studebaker hoch: What does Slack have that we didn't already have with FB and Gmail?

Slack is a lot more like a modern IRC alternative.

I like it, but I can't fathom why companies pay money for it.

Back-end analytics.  Apparently.


Ah, but Teams is integrated with the rest of the MS Cloud stuff (Sharepoint, Exchange) and their warez for spying on workers https://www.theguardian.com/t​echnology​/2020/nov/26/microsoft-productivity-sc​ore-feature-criticised-workplace-surve​illance
 
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