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(NJ.com)   Never missing an opportunity for a new tax, New Jersey bill to legalize marijuana includes a 'social equity' excise fee. Toke 'em if you got 'em   (nj.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Cannabis, Legality of cannabis by country, Legal and medical status of cannabis, New Jersey Senate, Decriminalization, Hashish, New Jersey, United States Senate  
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689 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Dec 2020 at 12:17 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-01 11:35:53 AM  
I would gladly pay a tax to have it legal here, but it's not in the cards as well have a heavily gerrymandered State that favors "law and order" Republicans.

/Hey, those prisons aren't going to fill themselves!!
 
2020-12-01 11:39:54 AM  
Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?
 
2020-12-01 11:46:52 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?


Which is why it's not going to work in some places. Cigarettes have never been illegal but people still smuggle them.
 
2020-12-01 11:54:14 AM  
Tax is the price of legalization.
Tax is what gives us society and civilization.
Quit whining about taxes and learn to live within your means, or get a better education so you can get a better job.
 
2020-12-01 11:54:56 AM  

ArkPanda: Which is why it's not going to work in some places.


But that's not because they are taxed or not taxed, but because they are taxed at different rates.

It won't be a problem as long as the tax rates are not vastly different. And even if they are, it doesn't mean it won't work, just that some tax income will be lost to smuggling.
 
2020-12-01 12:00:56 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?


Yeah but taxes are theft, donchaknow.
 
2020-12-01 12:03:18 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?

Yeah but taxes are theft, donchaknow.


Only if there's gold fringe.
 
2020-12-01 12:19:48 PM  
There are always compromises made to get it across the line initially. Insane rules, over-the-top taxes. It's worth it.

You just need to make sure your corrupt state government isn't going to use the money to fund casinos. In Colorado the taxes go to K-12. How awesome is that? Go buy a joint, fund schooling. It's great.
 
2020-12-01 12:20:47 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?


yeah it's one of the mostly commonly used arguments. the tax revenue you can generate with it is theoretically absurd. get a bunch of stoners to fix the roads and schools and call it a day.
 
2020-12-01 12:21:27 PM  
NJ residents overwhelmingly voted to allow recreational weed almost a month ago and these chucklefarks are still dicking around with the details instead of just passing what they were asked to figure out.
 
2020-12-01 12:22:31 PM  
Good, levy taxes on things that aren't necessary, so those taxes can befit things that are...
 
2020-12-01 12:22:41 PM  
It's a luxury item. You can live without it. Seriously.

Tax the ever lovin shiat out of it. When I'm in NJ, I'll pay the damn tax.
 
2020-12-01 12:22:50 PM  
States with newly legal weed should take a lesson from California. Taxes on weed are high enough here that the black market is still flourishing. Most of it is likely going out of state, but still the taxes are definitely a deterrent to local consumers buying legal.

Tax it, but keep it reasonable.
 
2020-12-01 12:23:39 PM  
So you're telling me that not only are we going to stop imprisoning* poor people, black people, and hippies; we're going to put money toward making their lives better again? This is an outrage!

*also beating, killing, seizing assets, and making them unemployable
 
2020-12-01 12:25:26 PM  
Does that only apply to white tokers?
 
2020-12-01 12:26:02 PM  
Um... OK?

Been legal here for some time now, and the resulting revenue for the state has been great for "social equity." Nearly half of all marijuana revenues from FY 2015-2019 went to the Basic Health Plan Trust Account.  That's why you tax luxury items. The rich can afford to pay to get those luxuries, and the taxes are used to buoy the poor.

High tide should lift all boats, goddamn it.
 
2020-12-01 12:26:31 PM  
Heh wait til they do what they do here in cali an charge sales tax on the excise tax. Or maybe it's the other way around, anyway it's tax on tax
 
2020-12-01 12:26:41 PM  
The tax angle is a weird take on this particular article.
 
2020-12-01 12:26:44 PM  
That's ok.  Part of the "legalize it" argument has always been that it was taxable once legal.  I'm fine with this.
 
2020-12-01 12:27:55 PM  

cretinbob: Tax is the price of legalization.
Tax is what gives us society and civilization.
Quit whining about taxes and learn to live within your means, or get a better education so you can get a better job.


NJ taxes you if you move out of state.

Good pizza though.
 
2020-12-01 12:28:41 PM  

cretinbob: Tax is the price of legalization.
Tax is what gives us society and civilization.
Quit whining about taxes and learn to live within your means, or get a better education so you can get a better job.


The issue isn't the tax itself, but that taxes disproportionately affect the poorer members of society even as the wealthier members are granted loopholes & shelters with which to protect their wealth.

Reagan destroyed the idea of the rich paying their fair share, and no one's yet had the balls to undo the damage that asshole did to America.
 
2020-12-01 12:30:10 PM  

cretinbob: Tax is the price of legalization.
Tax is what gives us society and civilization.
Quit whining about taxes and learn to live within your means, or get a better education so you can get a better job.


No, taxes pay for government, like standing armies, police forces, 24x7 surveillance, capricious laws and rules, and so on. Not society and civilization.
 
2020-12-01 12:30:12 PM  

ArkPanda: Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?

Which is why it's not going to work in some places. Cigarettes have never been illegal but people still smuggle them.


That's why legislators have to be smart enough not to make the taxes too high, as they are on NY cigarettes.

/So we're boned
 
2020-12-01 12:30:25 PM  

ArkPanda: Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?

Which is why it's not going to work in some places. Cigarettes have never been illegal but people still smuggle them.


Oh, how many people are doing that though. The biggest "problem" in the U.S. is just grabbing smokes from PA if you live on the border in NY or whatever. I would say that the vast majority of people who buy cigarettes just get them legally from the AM/PM instead of some vast smuggling operation.
 
2020-12-01 12:31:42 PM  
An early version of the bill did not earmark any funding for communities harmed by the drug war, soliciting outcry from racial justice advocates who wanted to see marijuana tax revenue support restorative programs.

But both chambers have since added fees that direct tax revenue to certain communities of color, where a disproportionate enforcement of marijuana prohibition has led people to struggle to find jobs and housing over decades.


Why, it almost sounds like systemic racism when you put it that way.
 
2020-12-01 12:32:26 PM  

ArkPanda: Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?

Which is why it's not going to work in some places. Cigarettes have never been illegal but people still smuggle them.


When the cost of a pretty good 20+% THC lab tested, lot numbered, customer reviewed, and conveniently bought preroll .75g joint drops to $3, or $60 for an ounce of flower, then few people are going to drive to next neighborhood, let alone another state. That's what happened in my neighborhood in WA after about 2 years of legal recreational weed. I might have driven to east side of county for rare strain because I was a nerd, but I could pop across from neighborhood tavern for a good and cheap preroll for about the cost of a Busch Light in a can.
 
2020-12-01 12:33:29 PM  
It's New Jersey, so I'm assuming certain "friends" of certain legislators are concerned about the risk to their off-of-the-record business arrangements, capice?
 
2020-12-01 12:38:04 PM  
Taxation is going to be inevitable.  Even regulation, same as with alcohol. Just legalize it.
 
2020-12-01 12:42:25 PM  

mybluemake: ArkPanda: Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?

Which is why it's not going to work in some places. Cigarettes have never been illegal but people still smuggle them.

When the cost of a pretty good 20+% THC lab tested, lot numbered, customer reviewed, and conveniently bought preroll .75g joint drops to $3, or $60 for an ounce of flower, then few people are going to drive to next neighborhood, let alone another state. That's what happened in my neighborhood in WA after about 2 years of legal recreational weed. I might have driven to east side of county for rare strain because I was a nerd, but I could pop across from neighborhood tavern for a good and cheap preroll for about the cost of a Busch Light in a can.


Yeah, that's what most prohibitionists fail to grasp-- that without the "illegality surcharge" that makes black market weed so pricey, the cost of weed will drop precipitously after legalization.  It's just an agricultural product, it isn't rare, and producing it is not capital-intensive when treated sensibly.

As long as taxes are calculated on the basis of a percentage of the product's value, it will eventually kill off most of the black market.
 
2020-12-01 12:44:19 PM  
NJ resident here, I'm with the fine, tax it, don't care, crowd.  We voted for this, so get it done.
 
2020-12-01 12:45:44 PM  
The real issue is funding "drug recognition experts" for the police. This shiat is voodoo that allows a cop's guess to be treated as proof of intoxication.

I was once at the scene of an accident and asked the cop if the girl driving the car was farked up. He proceeded to boast how he is a drug recognition expert and could easily tell if they were through a visual pat down. My high ass was thinking "oh really?".

/wasn't driving
//had puffed tough about 5 minutes before, though
/// pass the slashie to the left hand side
 
2020-12-01 12:48:45 PM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: NJ taxes you if you move out of state.


No it doesn't.

The "Exit Tax" is basically a false premise. It relates to the fact that NJ closed a loophole about people who tried to get out of real estate closing taxes by claiming that their vacation home in Florida was actually their "primary residence", and therefore they didn't owe NJ anything (or, at least, not as much as they otherwise would pay) for selling their NJ house. It's basically an up-front estimated tax payment on the sale, with any overages being refunded once you file your final NJ taxes.
 
2020-12-01 12:51:04 PM  

JesseL: So you're telling me that not only are we going to stop imprisoning* poor people, black people, and hippies; we're going to put money toward making their lives better again? This is an outrage!

*also beating, killing, seizing assets, and making them unemployable


My initial thought is if they actually use this money to help those they have previously jailed and impoverished with the drug wars then good.

If instead it goes to a bunch of consultants and feel good ads then bad.
 
2020-12-01 12:52:43 PM  
Average in New Jersey cost per pack: $7.79 for cigarettes
Cigarette Excise Tax Per Pack  $2.70

Sounds like a good source of revenue to tax pot the same way
 
2020-12-01 12:53:06 PM  

fringedmyotis: States with newly legal weed should take a lesson from California. Taxes on weed are high enough here that the black market is still flourishing. Most of it is likely going out of state, but still the taxes are definitely a deterrent to local consumers buying legal.

Tax it, but keep it reasonable.


meh...

I grew up in Humboldt County.   For decades the illegal weed farmers risked a lot, but also at points made a buttload of money.  A number of friends bought some nice property with their trimming wages.   BUT it was illegal.   It's legal now, and I know it's a pain in the butt to permit, etc...but I do get a bit of chuckle when they whine about it being legal now..

There are a lot of home invasion thefts of pot/money in the area now and yeah, out the back door "sales".   And the Greenrushers.   The problem is that the states that haven't legalized it still provide a market for the black market/crime (like the violent home invasions I mentioned.   Though I think they happened before, too...but no one reported them back then).

Humboldt (and the larger "emerald triangle") is a victim of it's own mythos.   I like that my husband can go to the local cannabis store.   Anyone that tries to sell him pot that we don't know the origin of it could be selling stolen weed with all the violence that might entail.  Or black market, fark those guys.

Same with cocaine *so I've heard..ahem*.   It can be fun, but knowing the violence of the trade, it's just fouled fro the get-go.
 
2020-12-01 12:56:42 PM  

Private_Citizen: I would gladly pay a tax to have it legal here, but it's not in the cards as well have a heavily gerrymandered State that favors "law and order" Republicans.

/Hey, those prisons aren't going to fill themselves!!


We have medical legal here, but will never end up with recreational, ever... The good news is that it's a 4.7% tax, which isn't horrible. I don't know what the tax on medical in Nevada is (Our neighbor state with recreational being legal), but for recreational, it's like 21% or some such shiat.
 
2020-12-01 12:57:41 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: fringedmyotis: States with newly legal weed should take a lesson from California. Taxes on weed are high enough here that the black market is still flourishing. Most of it is likely going out of state, but still the taxes are definitely a deterrent to local consumers buying legal.

Tax it, but keep it reasonable.

meh...

I grew up in Humboldt County.   For decades the illegal weed farmers risked a lot, but also at points made a buttload of money.  A number of friends bought some nice property with their trimming wages.   BUT it was illegal.   It's legal now, and I know it's a pain in the butt to permit, etc...but I do get a bit of chuckle when they whine about it being legal now..

There are a lot of home invasion thefts of pot/money in the area now and yeah, out the back door "sales".   And the Greenrushers.   The problem is that the states that haven't legalized it still provide a market for the black market/crime (like the violent home invasions I mentioned.   Though I think they happened before, too...but no one reported them back then).

Humboldt (and the larger "emerald triangle") is a victim of it's own mythos.   I like that my husband can go to the local cannabis store.   Anyone that tries to sell him pot that we don't know the origin of it could be selling stolen weed with all the violence that might entail.  Or black market, fark those guys.

Same with cocaine *so I've heard..ahem*.   It can be fun, but knowing the violence of the trade, it's just fouled fro the get-go.


Sounds like you like your weed grown with Tegridy. That's why you should buy from Tegridy Farms, a wholesome family farm:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 12:59:36 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?


There's no debate about whether it will be taxed. It will be. The question is what to do with the tax revenue. Murphy and some of his allies are proposing to dedicate the revenue to serving communities that have been harmed by the war on drugs. I'm torn on this one -- it sounds like an admirable sentiment, but I wouldn't mind seeing it just go to the general coffers. Spend it on infrastructure, give NJ Transit some badly needed improvements, maybe even give a little property tax relief.

There's a real opportunity here, particularly as long as it remains illegal in New York and Pennsylvania.
 
2020-12-01 12:59:41 PM  
I read someplace that one bill to legalize in NJ will make possession of up to six ounces legal.  Between that and the various taxes the legislature wants to impose, it doesn't take a crystal ball to see that all these morons are doing is to guarantee that a vigorous black market for weed will continue to exist.

The Bunyip: NJ residents overwhelmingly voted to allow recreational weed almost a month ago and these chucklefarks are still dicking around with the details instead of just passing what they were asked to figure out.


And they'll wind up legislating the worst possible alternative, count on it.
 
2020-12-01 1:00:20 PM  
The tax mentioned in the headline is for growers. Good!

I think NJ is not going to have a steep sales tax. They did this to discourage the black market. I heard this is an area where California really farked up.
 
2020-12-01 1:01:09 PM  

fortheloveof: JesseL: So you're telling me that not only are we going to stop imprisoning* poor people, black people, and hippies; we're going to put money toward making their lives better again? This is an outrage!

*also beating, killing, seizing assets, and making them unemployable

My initial thought is if they actually use this money to help those they have previously jailed and impoverished with the drug wars then good.

If instead it goes to a bunch of consultants and feel good ads then bad.


Yes. I too, favor good things over bad things.

Obviously there are a million ways they could fark this up, but the fundamental idea is sound.
 
2020-12-01 1:01:36 PM  
No worse than Washington state where the cops cried about not being able to seize potheads money anymore and demanded a piece of the revenues.
 
2020-12-01 1:03:08 PM  

The Bunyip: NJ residents overwhelmingly voted to allow recreational weed almost a month ago and these chucklefarks are still dicking around with the details instead of just passing what they were asked to figure out.


It took YEARS for Massachusetts to get rec stores open after it was legalized here. It's gonna be a while for you guys too.
 
2020-12-01 1:05:09 PM  
I think the joy of being able to sell product directly to the public will make most medical and recreational retailers avoid the black market.  I think that has happened already in Colorado.

/also, that shiat is the shiat and I have not taken a puff at all since it went legal in CO.  I think I'd fall down.
 
2020-12-01 1:06:26 PM  

Private_Citizen: Dewey Fidalgo: fringedmyotis: States with newly legal weed should take a lesson from California. Taxes on weed are high enough here that the black market is still flourishing. Most of it is likely going out of state, but still the taxes are definitely a deterrent to local consumers buying legal.

Tax it, but keep it reasonable.

meh...

I grew up in Humboldt County.   For decades the illegal weed farmers risked a lot, but also at points made a buttload of money.  A number of friends bought some nice property with their trimming wages.   BUT it was illegal.   It's legal now, and I know it's a pain in the butt to permit, etc...but I do get a bit of chuckle when they whine about it being legal now..

There are a lot of home invasion thefts of pot/money in the area now and yeah, out the back door "sales".   And the Greenrushers.   The problem is that the states that haven't legalized it still provide a market for the black market/crime (like the violent home invasions I mentioned.   Though I think they happened before, too...but no one reported them back then).

Humboldt (and the larger "emerald triangle") is a victim of it's own mythos.   I like that my husband can go to the local cannabis store.   Anyone that tries to sell him pot that we don't know the origin of it could be selling stolen weed with all the violence that might entail.  Or black market, fark those guys.

Same with cocaine *so I've heard..ahem*.   It can be fun, but knowing the violence of the trade, it's just fouled fro the get-go.

Sounds like you like your weed grown with Tegridy. That's why you should buy from Tegridy Farms, a wholesome family farm:
[Fark user image 425x235]


Oregon.   Maybe.   Still better than weed stolen at the point of gun (or a rifle butt to the head and seeing your whole family tied up and threatened).
 
2020-12-01 1:06:27 PM  

ArkPanda: Petit_Merdeux: Wasn't that what people have were saying all along? "Legalize it and TAX it!"?

Which is why it's not going to work in some places. Cigarettes have never been illegal but people still smuggle them.


In order to clarify for those that don't know, the cigarette tax in NJ is one of the highest in the country.  Such to the extent that the majority of the cost of a pack is taxes.
Meanwhile, the state just to the south has no tax at all.  So it's no wonder that people will drive a couple of hours, pick up a few cartons for half the price, and drive back.
 
2020-12-01 1:08:24 PM  
Concerning the tax.  I don't care.  Having the stuff decriminalized is the most important part of this.

The people of this state will no longer have to worry about having their life ruined because they got caught with a little bud on them.  And it's time to let some of the non-violent offenders out of jail too.
 
2020-12-01 1:09:01 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Private_Citizen: Dewey Fidalgo: fringedmyotis: States with newly legal weed should take a lesson from California. Taxes on weed are high enough here that the black market is still flourishing. Most of it is likely going out of state, but still the taxes are definitely a deterrent to local consumers buying legal.

Tax it, but keep it reasonable.

meh...

I grew up in Humboldt County.   For decades the illegal weed farmers risked a lot, but also at points made a buttload of money.  A number of friends bought some nice property with their trimming wages.   BUT it was illegal.   It's legal now, and I know it's a pain in the butt to permit, etc...but I do get a bit of chuckle when they whine about it being legal now..

There are a lot of home invasion thefts of pot/money in the area now and yeah, out the back door "sales".   And the Greenrushers.   The problem is that the states that haven't legalized it still provide a market for the black market/crime (like the violent home invasions I mentioned.   Though I think they happened before, too...but no one reported them back then).

Humboldt (and the larger "emerald triangle") is a victim of it's own mythos.   I like that my husband can go to the local cannabis store.   Anyone that tries to sell him pot that we don't know the origin of it could be selling stolen weed with all the violence that might entail.  Or black market, fark those guys.

Same with cocaine *so I've heard..ahem*.   It can be fun, but knowing the violence of the trade, it's just fouled fro the get-go.

Sounds like you like your weed grown with Tegridy. That's why you should buy from Tegridy Farms, a wholesome family farm:
[Fark user image 425x235]

Oregon.   Maybe.   Still better than weed stolen at the point of gun (or a rifle butt to the head and seeing your whole family tied up and threatened).


Kidding aside, I would stick with legal options only. I don't buy illegally now, I'm not about to start.
 
2020-12-01 1:09:01 PM  
don't threaten us with a good time?

just make sure the laws still allow for people to grow there own if they are so inclined and able.
 
2020-12-01 1:10:18 PM  

tirob: it doesn't take a crystal ball to see that all these morons are doing is to guarantee that a vigorous black market for weed will continue to exist.


Anyone who remembers waiting hours for a skeevy friend of a friend to show up and sell you a baggie of "pot" (Not a carefully selected 60/40 Northern Lights/OG Kush hybrid) but a baggie of plant trimmings of unknown origin, is going to deal with that just to save a couple bucks.
 
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