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(CNBC)   CDC panel voting today over who will receive Covid vaccine first. Hopefully Tom Brady leaves enough for the rest of humanity   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Vaccination, Immune system, coronavirus vaccine, Vaccine, Advisory Committee, top U.S. health officials, Covid-19 vaccine, U.S. officials  
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1276 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 01 Dec 2020 at 12:05 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-12-01 1:16:24 PM  

Gooch: Fighting over hastily produced, insufficiently tested garbage? You can have it. I'll wait a year, see how the rest are doing.


I'm on the front line, and based on the conversations I've had with multiple experts in the fields of infectious disease, critical care, pulmonology, and immunology the data looks pretty promising. Most of us are planning on getting it when it becomes available, and we are probably first in line.

It's important to pay attention to the fact that none of the data came out before the election and it seems like the scientists, at least at Pfizer and Moderna, are following scientific method and the peer review process as well as they can given the accelerated timeline.  AstraZeneca is a good example of some scientists royally screwing up and then trying to salvage the data in a way that makes many scientists cringe.

In a couple of months, hopefully, I can go to work without fearing for my safety. We'll  still have masks on for the next year or so but that's not that big of a deal. You don't want to get it, fine, but don't mock people who are paying attention to the science and don't see as much of a doomsday scenario as you do.
Virology podcast about the vaccines. They are super nerdy and a little dry but very informative, and all experts in the field.
 
2020-12-01 1:17:14 PM  

6nome: I thought he was making a TB12 branded vaccine.


Deionized alkaline water that saw an avocado once.
 
2020-12-01 1:29:20 PM  
I think Tom Brady would resist a needle in the arm. You know, he doesn't want things to get too inflated.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 1:30:45 PM  

dark brew: Bandito King: Katie98_KT: One of the groups they're considering for vaccine priority (i.e. would get it before other people) is the morbidly obese.

Okay farkers, FIGHT.

That seems weird. You'd think we'd give it to the healthy at-risk population first. Just from a triage standpoint.

From a jerk standpoint, it's not like we need more fatties.

It's not weird at all.  When we get to the at risk population phase of the vaccine rollout, if there needs to be a prioritization of the list, it would make sense to rank it according to who is more likely to require hospitalization if they contracted Covid. If that makes the list go elderly, obese, diabetics, asthma/COPD, hypertension, pregnancy, then so be it.  Hospitals are being stretched thin in a lot of areas, reducing admissions and ICU patients is paramount.  If some of you need to biatch about fatties, fine, but it makes sense to prioritize them.


Are they smart fatties working in critical infrastructure? (I know many)
Or are they trailer park fatties?

It's a Republican regime, so I assume the economy takes precedence, and essential employees will get dibs after healthcare workers.

Does the vaccine make one immune?  Or does it make you asymptomatic?
(I've heard both things)
 
2020-12-01 1:31:11 PM  

Katie98_KT: One of the groups they're considering for vaccine priority (i.e. would get it before other people) is the morbidly obese.

Okay farkers, FIGHT.


We already had that fight, and quite frankly, we're still a bit winded
 
2020-12-01 1:31:43 PM  
How long until some celebrity gets it and tweets about it before some party?
 
2020-12-01 1:37:37 PM  

FormlessOne: We have deals with Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica, and Novovax, if & when they produce an FDA-approved vaccine. Problem is, none of them have done so yet -


RTFA. They are shipping.

"The Federal Aviation Administration said it supported the "first mass air shipment" of vaccines on Friday, as pharmaceutical companies and airlines prepare networks for broad distribution. United Airlines carried Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine from Brussels to Chicago O'Hare International Airport on Friday, people familiar with the matter told CNBC."
 
2020-12-01 1:41:29 PM  
I say inject a big ol' air bubble into Brady's circulatory system.  You know, as a placebo.
 
2020-12-01 1:41:36 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: meanwhile, all the maskholes will add screaming "There's a vaccine, if you're afraid of me, go get a shot!" and "I had my shot already!" (they didn't) to their stupid tirades.


There was a MAGA man-baby melting down when I was at the post office last week. He was told to wear a mask. He started with "masks don't work!!" and continued with, "how many times did you get tested this week. I got tested five times!!"
 
2020-12-01 1:41:36 PM  

J_Kushner: Are they smart fatties working in critical infrastructure? (I know many)
Or are they trailer park fatties?


The critical infrastructure fatties will already be prioritized.

J_Kushner: It's a Republican regime, so I assume the economy takes precedence, and essential employees will get dibs after healthcare workers.


It will ultimately be up to each state to determine the order of groups getting the vaccine.  You can view each state's preliminary plan here.  They may change based upon the CDC's recommendations, but essential employees aren't in line after healthcare workers in the few states I've checked.
 
2020-12-01 1:45:52 PM  

Tall_Wookie: How long until some celebrity gets it and tweets about it before some party?


Probably not long.   I have a contact working on the logistics with the CDC and he wouldn't answer any specific questions about priorities but did say my guesses were pretty good:

1.  High level government (president, congress, supremes, etc)
2.  Active military
3. Front line emergency personnel (nurses in hospitals, fire, police, emt/paramedics)

I also believe there will be a side pool of richies/athletes that will get it early because of the money involved.  Kind of like how they were able to get rapid tests early on while our samples had to be flown to the CDC and had a 7 day turnaround.  Thus the instagram post and outrage from the plebeians, followed by a hasty non apology about how "they didn't think about regular people before posting".

After that it's a question if they go after essential workers or elderly.   I would lean towards grocery store workers and like first if I got to make the decision.  Even though obesity is being considered as a group of people that might get inoculated first, I would be shocked if that was the final determination because there are so many fat people in this country how do you differentiate who needs it and who doesn't.  Also do you go by the clinical definition of obese, because that is a very large segment of the population.
 
2020-12-01 1:49:46 PM  
As someone mentally disabled, I'm terrified that there's only going to be enough vaccines for normal people next year and I might have to wait 2 or more years before one is made available to people like me.
 
2020-12-01 1:57:43 PM  
If it aint "front line healthcare providers first" then it is literally a death panel.

Nurses to the front of the line, please.
 
2020-12-01 2:00:34 PM  
On a related note, I've seen a lot of people recently that seem to be accepting that masks work and are important wearing them with their nose hanging out or pulled down temporarily and whatnot. A lot of them doing touching their face or the important parts of their mask and risking infection.

I think one of the first things Biden should do is put someone on TV to explain how and why masks work, how to wear them properly, and the importance of keeping them on constantly when around people, especially in an enclosed space like the grocery store. Also a good lesson on handwashing, sterile procedure, cross-contamination, and so on. Make it as dumbed down as possible, with pictures, because a lot of our fellow Americans mean well but are basically morons.  Cover all the basics.

Making Fauci the presenter is probably a bad idea just because so many people have an incorrectly negative view of him now. Make it someone neutral, relatable, and evidently very intelligent and experienced but without an air of condescension or pomposity.

Make this broadcast preemptive. If you turn on the TV for that half hour, that's all you can see.
 
2020-12-01 2:06:34 PM  

Lord Bear: I would go with:
1) Front line Responders
2) At risk individuals
3) Everyone else
4) Anti-maskers / anti-vaxxers


A suggestion from my 92 year old mom this morning:

1) Front line Responders
2) Essential workers
3) Elderly in long term care
4) Everyone else (who wants it)
 
2020-12-01 2:16:11 PM  
All top democrats should get it first, starting with president elect xi jinping.
 
2020-12-01 2:18:48 PM  

EvilEgg: OMG!  These are Obama's deathpanels!  Save us Trump!


I understand that the obese didn't care about their bodies before Covid, but how could any fat person not have realized that this is a killer and not have lost 100 pounds over the past few months.
 
2020-12-01 2:22:01 PM  

barneyrubble: All top democrats should get it first, starting with president elect xi jinping.


My god, you are hilarious!
 
2020-12-01 2:49:37 PM  

Por que tan serioso: How on brand. Fat people consuming all the valuable resources first.


Fark user imageView Full Size


They're like locusts, they're moving from planet to planet, their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource, they move on. And we're next.
 
2020-12-01 2:51:57 PM  
That means immunizing those who are at the highest risk, like those in long-term care facilities, the elderly, minorities.

I can see the squawking already: "Trump wants to use old people and minorities as sacrificial lab rats."
 
2020-12-01 2:57:19 PM  

dennysgod: Well there 73,966,932 people that can go right to the bottom of the list since they don't need a vaccine for a hoax.


There are others of your ideological ilk who want to force inoculation on everyone. Which is it to be, deny the deplorables, or vaccinate them involuntarily by pointing a rifle at their head?
 
2020-12-01 2:57:29 PM  

Dodo David: Lord Bear: I would go with:
1) Front line Responders
2) At risk individuals
3) Everyone else
4) Anti-maskers / anti-vaxxers

You should have stopped at 3)


Like anti vaxxers will be lining up for it anyway.
 
2020-12-01 3:00:16 PM  

electricjebus: Not an expert, but my vote would be
-all medical workers
-cops
-essential workers that deal with the general public
-elderly and at risk people outside those categories
-the rest of the essential workers
-the general population

I could flip the essential workers that deal with the general public and the elderly/at risk population, but I just think it makes more sense to vaccinate the gas station clerk or grocery store worker that comes into contact with 500 strangers a day first.  We can limit visits at nursing homes for a few more months.

You slow a disease by hitting the people that are most likely to spread it.

/two cents.


I think it's a balance between reducing spread in low risk demographics vs high risk demographics. Spread in a nursing home is probably way worse than spread in an elementary school in terms of deaths. The number crunchers have some work to do.
 
2020-12-01 3:04:17 PM  

Flashlight: EvilEgg: OMG!  These are Obama's deathpanels!  Save us Trump!

I understand that the obese didn't care about their bodies before Covid, but how could any fat person not have realized that this is a killer and not have lost 100 pounds over the past few months.


Because losing 100 pounds in a "few" months isn't healthy.  Seriously, though, i'm working on it, but at 1-2lbs per week, it takes some time.
 
2020-12-01 3:05:38 PM  

jjorsett: That means immunizing those who are at the highest risk, like those in long-term care facilities, the elderly, minorities.

I can see the squawking already: "Trump wants to use old people and minorities as sacrificial lab rats."


Military will get it first. Trust me, if you are active duty or reserves, you are a pin cushion.
 
2020-12-01 3:14:29 PM  

BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?


Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)
 
2020-12-01 3:18:31 PM  

ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)


ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱
 
2020-12-01 3:27:58 PM  

valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱


LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.
 
2020-12-01 3:42:58 PM  
Supposedly Trump is going to leave it up to the states to determine who  gets offered the vaccines first. There will be one exception of course. He has already said he intends to fark New York. And he is consistent about one thing: He always wants revenge for any perceived slight no matter how petty and nasty he must be to get it.
 
2020-12-01 3:54:13 PM  

ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!
 
2020-12-01 3:57:01 PM  

valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!


For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.
 
2020-12-01 4:12:27 PM  

ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!

For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.


Okay, I get your point. We will neglect the poorer parts of the world initially. But ultimately they are probably doing a lot better with this as there is not as much movement among the people. You'd be surprised how long dry ice packed in styrofoam will last though. 3 days or so with basic refrigeration.
 
2020-12-01 4:16:05 PM  

valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!

For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.

Okay, I get your point. We will neglect the poorer parts of the world initially. But ultimately they are probably doing a lot better with this as there is not as much movement among the people. You'd be surprised how long dry ice packed in styrofoam will last though. 3 days or so with basic refrigeration.


I will hold out hope that you are also correct.


My big concern is that I wonder how the fact that dry ice is -78 versus Pfizer recommending -70 degrees and how important that 8 degree difference is.

If -78 is as good as -70 then you may be right. However, if you need -70 +/- a degree (or whatever), then you need temperature management and now the cost skyrockets.
 
2020-12-01 4:21:41 PM  

ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!

For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.

Okay, I get your point. We will neglect the poorer parts of the world initially. But ultimately they are probably doing a lot better with this as there is not as much movement among the people. You'd be surprised how long dry ice packed in styrofoam will last though. 3 days or so with basic refrigeration.

I will hold out hope that you are also correct.


My big concern is that I wonder how the fact that dry ice is -78 versus Pfizer recommending -70 degrees and how important that 8 degree difference is.

If -78 is as good as -70 then you may be right. However, if you need -70 +/- a degree (or whatever), then you need temperature management and now the cost skyrockets.


Thermodynamics. A closed system will come to equilibrium. A glass of ice water will reach very close to 0c quite quickly. Same with dry ice. The styrofoam insulation creates a mostly closed system. Everything will be minus 78 inside after a handful of minutes.
 
2020-12-01 4:24:12 PM  

valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!

For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.

Okay, I get your point. We will neglect the poorer parts of the world initially. But ultimately they are probably doing a lot better with this as there is not as much movement among the people. You'd be surprised how long dry ice packed in styrofoam will last though. 3 days or so with basic refrigeration.

I will hold out hope that you are also correct.


My big concern is that I wonder how the fact that dry ice is -78 versus Pfizer recommending -70 degrees and how important that 8 degree difference is.

If -78 is as good as -70 then you may be right. However, if you need -70 +/- a degree (or whatever), then you need temperature management and now the cost skyrockets.

Thermodynamics. A closed system will come to equilibrium. A glass of ice water will reach very close to 0c quite quickly. Same with dry ice. The styrofoam insulation creates a mostly closed system. Everything will be minus 78 inside after a handful of minutes.


Yes. I get that. My point was:


Is -78 okay, or does it have to be -70 exactly (Pfizer says -70 but doesn't give "tolerances")

So if -78 is okay, just pack it in a shiatload of cheap dry ice and voila...however if it has to be really close to -70 now you have to expensively regulate the temperature.

Because they're shipping in special temperature controlled crates leads me to believe that it cannot be -78 (dry ice) but rather must be controlled close to -70.
 
2020-12-01 5:02:45 PM  

Watubi: Gooch: Fighting over hastily produced, insufficiently tested garbage? You can have it. I'll wait a year, see how the rest are doing.

I hear it's always best to wait a year for seasonal flu shots too


I get my flu shot yearly; those shots have been vetted and tested to my satisfaction. I've not had the flu since childhood in fact. I think it's sketchy that these vaccines are conjured within months and ready to go.
 
2020-12-01 5:05:42 PM  

medicalmiracle: Gooch: Fighting over hastily produced, insufficiently tested garbage? You can have it. I'll wait a year, see how the rest are doing.

I'm on the front line, and based on the conversations I've had with multiple experts in the fields of infectious disease, critical care, pulmonology, and immunology the data looks pretty promising. Most of us are planning on getting it when it becomes available, and we are probably first in line.

It's important to pay attention to the fact that none of the data came out before the election and it seems like the scientists, at least at Pfizer and Moderna, are following scientific method and the peer review process as well as they can given the accelerated timeline.  AstraZeneca is a good example of some scientists royally screwing up and then trying to salvage the data in a way that makes many scientists cringe.

In a couple of months, hopefully, I can go to work without fearing for my safety. We'll  still have masks on for the next year or so but that's not that big of a deal. You don't want to get it, fine, but don't mock people who are paying attention to the science and don't see as much of a doomsday scenario as you do.
Virology podcast about the vaccines. They are super nerdy and a little dry but very informative, and all experts in the field.


I'm cool with masks and avoiding needless gatherings; I don't begrudge anyone who wants to be first in line to get the shot(s); I just want to wait and see. It's kind of like cell phones, where I won't be the first in line for the latest gadget because I know it will be full of bugs that need patches and such. I'll wait a bit.
 
2020-12-01 5:07:29 PM  

ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!

For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.

Okay, I get your point. We will neglect the poorer parts of the world initially. But ultimately they are probably doing a lot better with this as there is not as much movement among the people. You'd be surprised how long dry ice packed in styrofoam will last though. 3 days or so with basic refrigeration.

I will hold out hope that you are also correct.


My big concern is that I wonder how the fact that dry ice is -78 versus Pfizer recommending -70 degrees and how important that 8 degree difference is.

If -78 is as good as -70 then you may be right. However, if you need -70 +/- a degree (or whatever), then you need temperature management and now the cost skyrockets.

Thermodynamics. A closed system will come to equilibrium. A glass of ice water will reach very close to 0c quite quickly. Same with dry ice. The styrofoam insulation creates a mostly closed system. Everything will be minus 78 inside after a handful of minutes.

Yes. I get that. My point was:


Is -78 okay, or does it have to be -70 exactly (Pfizer says -70 but doesn't give "tolerances")

So if -78 is okay, just pack it in a shiatload of cheap dry ice and voila...however if it has to be really close to -70 now you have to expensively regulate the temperature.

Because they're shipping in special temperature controlled crates leads me to believe that it cannot be -78 (dry ice) but rather must be controlled close to -70.


Below -70.
 
2020-12-01 5:09:57 PM  

valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: valenumr: ColonelCathcart: BitwiseShift: Imagine a disgraced, former president seeking safety in another country, and all he has is a couple of hundred million vials of some room temperature stable vaccine with some semblance of effective power.

Would you let him in if you could barter the meds for something you want?

Except none of the vaccines are room temperature stable.

The Russian one needs a fridge. The American ones need Martian pole temperature cold (-70)

ZOMG! 200 year old technology is needed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ic​e
🥱🥱

LOL, you.

Dry ice is *constantly* needed - it's not hard to have dry ice in your warehouse in Michigan or Belgium (where Pfizer has it) or even to have some for the flight from ORD to wherever...

The hard part is having enough and maintaining the temperature for an extended period of time as you ship from Chicago to Timbuktu and god forbid there is a storm that makes the dirt road impassable. What are you going to do? Airlift ever single vaccine with helicopters to everyone?

There's a reason why many experts have said that much of the developing world outside of capital cities is likely going to have to wait for a different vaccine besides the American ones.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.c​om/changing-america/well-being/longevi​ty/527651-ups-is-making-dry-ice-and-su​pplying-portable-freezers%3famp

Have a nice day!

For the whole world? All 6 Billion people that live outside of USA, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and achina.

Do you realize how much money that will cost? Who can afford it? Surely not the countries who need it.

Again, they'll get a vaccine to a village in Laos or PNG or Mali - but it won't be the Pfizer one.

Okay, I get your point. We will neglect the poorer parts of the world initially. But ultimately they are probably doing a lot better with this as there is not as much movement among the people. You'd be surprised how long dry ice packed in styrofoam will last though. 3 days or so with basic refrigeration.

I will hold out hope that you are also correct.


My big concern is that I wonder how the fact that dry ice is -78 versus Pfizer recommending -70 degrees and how important that 8 degree difference is.

If -78 is as good as -70 then you may be right. However, if you need -70 +/- a degree (or whatever), then you need temperature management and now the cost skyrockets.

Thermodynamics. A closed system will come to equilibrium. A glass of ice water will reach very close to 0c quite quickly. Same with dry ice. The styrofoam insulation creates a mostly closed system. Everything will be minus 78 inside after a handful of minutes.

Yes. I get that. My point was:


Is -78 okay, or does it have to be -70 exactly (Pfizer says -70 but doesn't give "tolerances")

So if -78 is okay, just pack it in a shiatload of cheap dry ice and voila...however if it has to be really close to -70 now you have to expensively regulate the temperature.

Because they're shipping in special temperature controlled crates leads me to believe that it cannot be -78 (dry ice) but rather must be controlled close to -70.

Below -70.


I understand you concerns, but this is more like a situation where the upper limit is an issue, an may likely change. It's quite possible there is something that is "too cold", but it is probably well below -70
 
2020-12-01 5:41:03 PM  
1. Trump and the GOP.
2. Trump supporters/anti-maskers.
3. Front line workers / medical workers / people with medical conditions that put them at risk.
4. Everyone else.

The reason I say Trump and his followers should have first crack is because:

1. They should be the guinea pigs if they want to claim that "win".
2. They are the most risky people in terms of behavior and so I'd like them to NOT be carrying it when they shop without their masks and gather together at big events.
3. If anything is wrong with this vaccine I want them to show side-effects before I get a chance to take it.
4. The rest of us can continue to be responsible for another few months while they see whether or not their kidneys fall out.
 
2020-12-01 7:32:31 PM  

The Bunyip: Can't wait to see what happens when people start arguing over the definition of "essential worker" now.

/we should absolutely be prioritizing essential retail and logistics workers right now


Essential = pot head shops, abortion clinics, antifa rioters.

Nons= deplorables, gun stores and churches, small business owners!

Should use the same method which saved Cpt Kirk on Tarsus III!

/s
 
2020-12-01 7:46:14 PM  

Katie98_KT: One of the groups they're considering for vaccine priority (i.e. would get it before other people) is the morbidly obese.

Okay farkers, FIGHT.



I'd better start eating if I want one of the first vaccines.  The BMI calculator says I need to gain 117 pounds in order to be morbidly obese.  That's only four months if I eat about 5500 calories per day and stop exercising, though that's not counting my metabolism speeding up slightly if I weigh more.

On the other hand, I'll be close to getting a vaccine in four months if I don't gain weight, so maybe I'll just forget the whole project.
 
2020-12-01 8:33:00 PM  
CDC's headquarters in Atlanta. The odds of Tom Brady being an early covid19 vaccine recipient are roughly 28-3.
 
2020-12-01 8:51:18 PM  
Come on Donny lead your followers in a good cause for a change.
 
2020-12-03 12:14:45 AM  

dark brew: Bandito King: Katie98_KT: One of the groups they're considering for vaccine priority (i.e. would get it before other people) is the morbidly obese.

Okay farkers, FIGHT.

That seems weird. You'd think we'd give it to the healthy at-risk population first. Just from a triage standpoint.

From a jerk standpoint, it's not like we need more fatties.

It's not weird at all.  When we get to the at risk population phase of the vaccine rollout, if there needs to be a prioritization of the list, it would make sense to rank it according to who is more likely to require hospitalization if they contracted Covid. If that makes the list go elderly, obese, diabetics, asthma/COPD, hypertension, pregnancy, then so be it.  Hospitals are being stretched thin in a lot of areas, reducing admissions and ICU patients is paramount.  If some of you need to biatch about fatties, fine, but it makes sense to prioritize them.


Fair enough.
 
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