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(Gizmodo)   Is Ashoka Tano a Jedi? Yes, but from a certain point of view   (io9.gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Anakin Skywalker, Star Wars, Ahsoka Tano, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Padm Amidala, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones  
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1414 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 30 Nov 2020 at 11:12 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-30 6:56:01 PM  
" At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. "
Luke Skywalker

Every word of that is true. The Jedi (as presented by Uncle George himself) were a bunch of arrogant and uncaring jag-offs.
They were at the service of a Senate that was corrupted to shiat, and they KNEW IT.
They allowed misery and slavery to thrive during their watch and didn't give a rat's ass. (Remember how Padawan Obi-Wan referred to Anakin as "another useless creature" back in Tatooine? ) Tearing children away from their parents? If Anakin's mom had been brought to Coruscant she would have been safe negating Vader.
Then they were willing to serve as mercenaries leading a clone army. Will of the Force my ass. The Jedi Order allowed itself to be used to bring down the Republic. So no, I don't need Ashoka to be  a Jedi.
 
2020-11-30 8:52:34 PM  
She's supposedly a grey Jedi; doesn't follow the orders of the Jedi high council but lives with the moral code of the Jedi.

/spitballing
 
2020-11-30 9:29:07 PM  
She carries laser swords and throws sh*t with her mind. As far as most people figure, THAT'S a Jedi. Even if she didn't accept the title of Jedi Knight in The Wrong Jedi.

She left the Order, because the Order left her high and dry. Doesn't change who she was, and how she was trained in The Force-though purifying her lightsaber crystals from red to white was pretty dang cool.
 
2020-11-30 11:26:02 PM  
Haven't seen any of the animated stuff, though I am very interested after watching this season of Mando.

She doesn't force choke and she doesn't shoot lightning.  That puts her in the good column as far as I'm concerned.  Like Bslim said, screw the Jedi anyway.
 
2020-11-30 11:31:47 PM  

Kornchex: Haven't seen any of the animated stuff, though I am very interested after watching this season of Mando.

She doesn't force choke and she doesn't shoot lightning.  That puts her in the good column as far as I'm concerned.  Like Bslim said, screw the Jedi anyway.


Sure is definitely good, she's not a Sith or a Dark Jedi.

She was basically one step away from being a Jedi Knight and left the Order in her own terms. As Anakin's Padawan and someone who caught multiple Dark Lords including Darth Maul and multiple assassins, she's likely stronger than most Jedi would ever achieve, but she's not officially a Jedi.

Ashoka is one of reasons to watch Clone Wars for sure. Great character. Her reappearance in Rebels was one of the best arcs in that show.

I would put her appearance in Mandolorian as one of the best episodes of The Mandolorian yet.

She is proof that there are better stories in Star Wars than the Skywalker legacy.
 
2020-11-30 11:33:59 PM  
No. She handed in her gun and badge. She's just a loose cannon. Most of the darkside users we see aren't Sith either, whether or not they trained under one. The kid with the broom isn't a Jedi. The Tom Baker alien isn't either.

/Balance to the Force was eliminating the Jedi and Sith dogmas, till it wasn't I guess
 
2020-11-30 11:41:54 PM  

Burra: No. She handed in her gun and badge. She's just a loose cannon. Most of the darkside users we see aren't Sith either, whether or not they trained under one. The kid with the broom isn't a Jedi. The Tom Baker alien isn't either.

/Balance to the Force was eliminating the Jedi and Sith dogmas, till it wasn't I guess


I didn't know the Jedi stuff had gotten so muddled. Not a fan
 
2020-11-30 11:45:12 PM  
What a hugemisunderstandign of what a Jedi is. Yoda did not "root out evil" and Obi Wan did not "root out evil." Yoda was clear that wars do not make a person great and being a warrior is not the Jedi path. Obi Wan fought in the Clone Wars but did not think there was a particular merit to fighting, to the point of preferring a low-key elegant weapon like a lightsaber to a blaster.

This idea that Yoda should fight or even be depicted in psoters witha  scaowl of anger is fakred up enough, but to talk about Jedi as warriors is exactly what the Dark Side wants people to believe. It's depressing to see the writers do such a good job at a script but fail to know literally the most basic tenet of being Jedi. Jedi are not police. They are masters of being peaceful. The Jedi Knight finds themself in combat because the choices they makes puts them into conflict with a world where the Dark Side exerts an influence, and they becmome a Master when they've found ways to live peacefully and alone.
 
2020-11-30 11:49:50 PM  
Also, yes fark the Order. The south signs may have been overly evil, but the Jedi Order was definitely a stick government sponsored cult.

Among their many crimes is the systemic abduction of children, the brainwashing of the same children, multiple counts of genocide (they eradicated the Sith race, at least, arguments to be made for Genosians and a few other races)... In addition to their actual crimes, they were a dogmatic cult that had more than their fair share of political control, acted as judge, jury, and executioner in almost all matters they desired, acted as war mongers, conducted all manner of unsanctioned and illegal experiments, and acted generally like a government sponsored religion always will. If you look into the tenants of Jedi, they even controlled their knights like clergy, including the no love and celibacy rules as they were trying to prevent power legacies. It's obvious they knew the Force ran strong in bloodlines, see the aforementioned genocide of the Sith.

Jolee Bindo had it right. Gray Jedi knew what was what. Jedi were malicious and outright evil.
 
2020-11-30 11:52:18 PM  
Watch this you must.

A Certain Point of View | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim
Youtube pSOBeD1GC_Y
 
2020-11-30 11:53:23 PM  

Tannhauser: Burra: No. She handed in her gun and badge. She's just a loose cannon. Most of the darkside users we see aren't Sith either, whether or not they trained under one. The kid with the broom isn't a Jedi. The Tom Baker alien isn't either.

/Balance to the Force was eliminating the Jedi and Sith dogmas, till it wasn't I guess

I didn't know the Jedi stuff had gotten so muddled. Not a fan


Maybe you'd dig the Inquisitors more. Fans are their speciality:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-30 11:56:22 PM  

Quantumbunny: they were trying to prevent power legacies.


One of the stupidest things about the Prequels.  The Jedi ruled everything; the Sith were whispers.  And yet they sought someone who would "bring balance to the Force"?  "Yes, we need more evil.  Then we'll be in balance.  Oh, and we'll be totally surprised at this evil we want."
 
2020-12-01 12:04:04 AM  
I am beginning to think that Order 66 was actually named for its success rate.
 
2020-12-01 12:24:26 AM  
She's more Jedi than some Jedi just like there are plenty of people who are more Christian than some of the assholes who will turn up to church every Sunday.
 
2020-12-01 12:50:55 AM  
And here I assumed she was going to show up in the last 30 seconds of the season finale.

It's been established that force-sensitive kids get born all over. Why do they all end up as either Sith or Jedi?

I know... MS2k theme song.
 
2020-12-01 1:02:35 AM  

Michael J Faux: I am beginning to think that Order 66 was actually named for its success rate.


There's always one more Jedi that escaped the purge
 
2020-12-01 1:12:30 AM  

maxheck: It's been established that force-sensitive kids get born all over. Why do they all end up as either Sith or Jedi?


Not all of them do.  There are other orders of force users (The Nightsisters, Knights of Ren etc) that don't subscribe to either the  Jedi or Sith code and there are unaffiliated force users (like Maz Kanata) who do their own thing.  Presumably there are thousands of latent force users throughout the galaxy that are never found by anyone able to train them.
 
2020-12-01 1:27:08 AM  

Kornchex: Haven't seen any of the animated stuff, though I am very interested after watching this season of Mando.

She doesn't force choke and she doesn't shoot lightning.  That puts her in the good column as far as I'm concerned.  Like Bslim said, screw the Jedi anyway.


The Clone Wars is good. Rebels is also good, and Resistance is slightly less good.

Plus, clone wars is very much Ahsoka's show. It has a lot of Mando-lore in it - the dark saber, bo-Katan, The Watch, Boba Fett 's origin story - all within a fairly intense 20 minute slice of the Star Wars universe.
 
2020-12-01 1:30:21 AM  

maxheck: And here I assumed she was going to show up in the last 30 seconds of the season finale.

It's been established that force-sensitive kids get born all over. Why do they all end up as either Sith or Jedi?

I know... MS2k theme song.


They also get hunted and murdered by Sith affiliates so they don't grow up to be Jedi, or they live out their lives untrained in obscurity, like that kid with the broom.
 
2020-12-01 1:30:46 AM  
The only thing I can add is that the rubber folds in her head whatevers really wish they had gone the CG route with those. I felt like they bent foam swim protectors around her head.
 
2020-12-01 1:32:15 AM  
They weren't there in the clone wars or rebels, but I couldn't stop looking at them in Mandalorian.
 
2020-12-01 1:37:10 AM  

Gnaglor: The only thing I can add is that the rubber folds in her head whatevers really wish they had gone the CG route with those. I felt like they bent foam swim protectors around her head.


At her age they should have been bigger, too.
 
2020-12-01 1:43:08 AM  
The thing is that by this point, the traditional Jedi order that she trained under is gone, along with all of their gatekeeping concerning who gets to be a Jedi.

She, Luke, and whoever else is left get to decide what a Jedi is or isn't at this part of the story. Luke's beliefs, for example, a very different than the Order's orthodoxy. If she and/or Luke decide that she is a Jedi at some point post-Endor, then that's what she is. The rules of the old order don't apply anymore.
 
2020-12-01 2:13:04 AM  

Mad_Radhu: The thing is that by this point, the traditional Jedi order that she trained under is gone, along with all of their gatekeeping concerning who gets to be a Jedi.

She, Luke, and whoever else is left get to decide what a Jedi is or isn't at this part of the story. Luke's beliefs, for example, a very different than the Order's orthodoxy. If she and/or Luke decide that she is a Jedi at some point post-Endor, then that's what she is. The rules of the old order don't apply anymore.


You say "gatekeeping" like it is a bad thing in this case.

I mean, if you start an organisation you get to decide who becomes a member. Once you hand over leadership to someone else, (s)he gets to decide.

Or should everyone just be allowed in no matter what? That would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.
 
2020-12-01 2:17:00 AM  

Mad_Radhu: The thing is that by this point, the traditional Jedi order that she trained under is gone, along with all of their gatekeeping concerning who gets to be a Jedi.

She, Luke, and whoever else is left get to decide what a Jedi is or isn't at this part of the story. Luke's beliefs, for example, a very different than the Order's orthodoxy. If she and/or Luke decide that she is a Jedi at some point post-Endor, then that's what she is. The rules of the old order don't apply anymore.


Well, she had a voice cameo in the last movie, otherwise isn't in that series of movies.  So she's likely dead by then.  She certainly wasn't mentioned as training Jedis with Luke.
 
2020-12-01 2:21:02 AM  
I mean... she was literally one of the major propaganda figures representing the Jedi to the public at the time that the Jedi farked themselves over by deciding to arbitrarily assassinate a legally-elected head of state in a bloody coup.

There's sort of a David Duke and the KKK situation going on here... yeah, sure, technically she isn't directly affiliated anymore, but that's one of those technicalities that's solely for hair-splitting in a courtroom, in common use she's very definitely connected with the organization.
 
2020-12-01 2:32:15 AM  

DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.


Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.
 
2020-12-01 3:13:46 AM  

Jim_Callahan: DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.

Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.


Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.
 
2020-12-01 3:26:11 AM  

maxheck: I know... MS2k theme song.


*twitch*
/triggered
 
2020-12-01 3:34:52 AM  
No one cares because Disney doesn't care because nothing matters any more.

There's a point in Robot Chicken Star Wars where they are running down all the ridiculous shiat that's happened in Star Wars and Luke's posted with a cigarette and just says "Look, if you're not going to take this stuff seriously any more I'm outta here".

Stop caring.
 
2020-12-01 4:55:52 AM  

Jim_Callahan: I mean... she was literally one of the major propaganda figures representing the Jedi to the public at the time that the Jedi farked themselves over by deciding to arbitrarily assassinate a legally-elected head of state in a bloody coup.

There's sort of a David Duke and the KKK situation going on here... yeah, sure, technically she isn't directly affiliated anymore, but that's one of those technicalities that's solely for hair-splitting in a courtroom, in common use she's very definitely connected with the organization.


Assassinate... in a bloodless coup?
 
2020-12-01 4:57:02 AM  

Discordulator: Jim_Callahan: I mean... she was literally one of the major propaganda figures representing the Jedi to the public at the time that the Jedi farked themselves over by deciding to arbitrarily assassinate a legally-elected head of state in a bloody coup.

There's sort of a David Duke and the KKK situation going on here... yeah, sure, technically she isn't directly affiliated anymore, but that's one of those technicalities that's solely for hair-splitting in a courtroom, in common use she's very definitely connected with the organization.

Assassinate... in a bloodless coup?


Sorry, misread. I need to drink more... or drink less...

But it is 3am here, so I should get on with it either way.
 
2020-12-01 4:59:29 AM  

DerAppie: Jim_Callahan: DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.

Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.

Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.


You spend your time at the convention your way. I'll spend it my way.
 
2020-12-01 5:12:17 AM  

DerAppie: Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.


Not really. Do you think the Jedi Roll Call Squad shows up in the Outer Rim to check the paperwork of every rando who claims he's a Jedi? If the guy has telekinesis, lightsabers, and mind tricks, and doesn't seem overtly evil, his claim to be a Jedi is for all intents and purposes proven. No one is going to give a shiat whether his mom paid his membership dues at the dojo on Coruscant or whatever.

At any rate, in the Mandalorian episode it reads more as a force user who can't be bothered to get into the weeds about her exact religious-order status with a bunch of hillbillies who at the end of the conversation are still going to think she's a Jedi anyway.
 
2020-12-01 5:12:18 AM  

Night Train to Wakanda: No one cares because Disney doesn't care because nothing matters any more.

There's a point in Robot Chicken Star Wars where they are running down all the ridiculous shiat that's happened in Star Wars and Luke's posted with a cigarette and just says "Look, if you're not going to take this stuff seriously any more I'm outta here".

Stop caring.


Actually that Robot Chicken bit was years before Disney bought the rights.  I believe it was the part about midichlorians that finally broke Luke.

/ of course they got Hamill to voice Luke
 
2020-12-01 5:27:31 AM  

Neondistraction: Night Train to Wakanda: No one cares because Disney doesn't care because nothing matters any more.

There's a point in Robot Chicken Star Wars where they are running down all the ridiculous shiat that's happened in Star Wars and Luke's posted with a cigarette and just says "Look, if you're not going to take this stuff seriously any more I'm outta here".

Stop caring.

Actually that Robot Chicken bit was years before Disney bought the rights.  I believe it was the part about midichlorians that finally broke Luke.

/ of course they got Hamill to voice Luke


Foreboding.
 
2020-12-01 5:40:21 AM  

Michael J Faux: I am beginning to think that Order 66 was actually named for its success rate.


To be faaaiiirrr -

That's what happens when you send grunts to take out jedi.
 
2020-12-01 6:04:56 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Not really. Do you think the Jedi Roll Call Squad shows up in the Outer Rim to check the paperwork of every rando who claims he's a Jedi? If the guy has telekinesis, lightsabers, and mind tricks, and doesn't seem overtly evil, his claim to be a Jedi is for all intents and purposes proven. No one is going to give a shiat whether his mom paid his membership dues at the dojo on Coruscant or whatever.


If someone isn't causing trouble it might be too much of a cost on resources to track him/her/it down. True. But that doesn't mean the Jedi acknowledge his claim.

They might still proclaim "he isn't one of us" to the local authorities when they find out. Why? In case the 'Jedi' does go bad. Because why deal with the reputation hit when that happens. Better to have stuff on record beforehand than having to explain it all afterwards.

To the public at large it won't be too much of a difference until shiat goes down. But to any organisation it should matter which people proclaim themselves to be members.
 
2020-12-01 6:06:15 AM  

born_yesterday: You spend your time at the convention your way. I'll spend it my way.


Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
 
2020-12-01 6:14:56 AM  

Quantumbunny: Kornchex: Haven't seen any of the animated stuff, though I am very interested after watching this season of Mando.

She doesn't force choke and she doesn't shoot lightning.  That puts her in the good column as far as I'm concerned.  Like Bslim said, screw the Jedi anyway.

Sure is definitely good, she's not a Sith or a Dark Jedi.

She was basically one step away from being a Jedi Knight and left the Order in her own terms. As Anakin's Padawan and someone who caught multiple Dark Lords including Darth Maul and multiple assassins, she's likely stronger than most Jedi would ever achieve, but she's not officially a Jedi.

Ashoka is one of reasons to watch Clone Wars for sure. Great character. Her reappearance in Rebels was one of the best arcs in that show.

I would put her appearance in Mandolorian as one of the best episodes of The Mandolorian yet.

She is proof that there are better stories in Star Wars than the Skywalker legacy.


While I agree, isn't she part of the Skywalker legacy?

Dr. Aphra is another great character, but she's also tied into Skywalker stuff.

It's amazing how big a galaxy it is, full of life, and yet it boils down to one family and a couple of droids.
 
2020-12-01 6:15:58 AM  

Kornchex: Haven't seen any of the animated stuff, though I am very interested after watching this season of Mando.

She doesn't force choke and she doesn't shoot lightning.  That puts her in the good column as far as I'm concerned.  Like Bslim said, screw the Jedi anyway.


The Clone Wars and Rebels make 106 hours of the best canon Star Wars stories. Period. From Obi Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, even Yoda or the couple of Mandolorian arcs.

To be fair, the episodic nature makes these stories more in line with the movie serials that inspired Star Wars, down to a narrator screed at the beginning of The Clone Wars episodes.
 
2020-12-01 6:16:26 AM  

DerAppie: Jim_Callahan: DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.

Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.

Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.


Asohka was trained by Anikin, though and offered a legit title of Knight by the Jedi Order.

As far as Jedi cred goes, she's got much more of a claim than Luke, Leia, or Rei.
 
2020-12-01 6:21:52 AM  

Snapper Carr: maxheck: It's been established that force-sensitive kids get born all over. Why do they all end up as either Sith or Jedi?

Not all of them do.  There are other orders of force users (The Nightsisters, Knights of Ren etc) that don't subscribe to either the  Jedi or Sith code and there are unaffiliated force users (like Maz Kanata) who do their own thing.  Presumably there are thousands of latent force users throughout the galaxy that are never found by anyone able to train them.


You're probably right. We should have more stories about these potential untrained and undisciplined weapons of mass destruction with blind magical luck that occasionally organize in isolation over generations.
 
2020-12-01 6:24:10 AM  

leeksfromchichis: DerAppie: Jim_Callahan: DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.

Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.

Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.

Asohka was trained by Anikin, though and offered a legit title of Knight by the Jedi Order.

As far as Jedi cred goes, she's got much more of a claim than Luke, Leia, or Rei.


She refused it though.
 
2020-12-01 6:27:54 AM  

leeksfromchichis: DerAppie: Jim_Callahan: DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.

Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.

Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.

Asohka was trained by Anikin, though and offered a legit title of Knight by the Jedi Order.

As far as Jedi cred goes, she's got much more of a claim than Luke, Leia, or Rei.


I'd say Luke gets credit too, he was trained by one of (if not the) last surviving member(s) of the Jedi Council.  If Yoda says he's a Jedi, he's a Jedi.
 
2020-12-01 6:50:33 AM  

Snapper Carr: maxheck: It's been established that force-sensitive kids get born all over. Why do they all end up as either Sith or Jedi?

Not all of them do.  There are other orders of force users (The Nightsisters, Knights of Ren etc) that don't subscribe to either the  Jedi or Sith code and there are unaffiliated force users (like Maz Kanata) who do their own thing.  Presumably there are thousands of latent force users throughout the galaxy that are never found by anyone able to train them.


I've made the argument that Han Solo is force sensitive, he just doesn't know it, and his force powers simply manifest themselves in things like being lucky at games of chance, being able to navigate his ship at high speed around and through impossibly dangerous obstacles, having great aim, knowing Greedo is about to shoot, so he shoots first, and is even seemingly why Storm Troopers aim is so bad, as he is unconsciously misdirected their fire.

Same would be true for Princess Leia and many of the other key Star Wars players.
 
2020-12-01 7:45:15 AM  

DerAppie: Jim_Callahan: DerAppie: hat would be fun if people who don't subscribe to the tenets of Jediism go around telling people they are Jedi, and the Jedi aren't allowed to do anything about it.

Luke is canonically already doing that, though.  He's not actually trained as a Jedi, he's a mostly-independent force sorcerer who outright rejects most of the religion's precepts-- his version of "the Jedi" is an entirely different thing that he made up independently and named that as an attempt to honor the historical group, which he is very much consciously not imitating in any practical way.

This actually got him in a lot of trouble with other more orthodox remnants of the order led by actual real Jedi in the EU, back when the EU was a thing; the debates on the subject actually were never resolved philosophically, they were resolved by Luke being the most powerful sorcerer the galaxy had seen in a millennium.  The 600-pound gorilla gets to sit where it wants, essentially.  I'm not sure how it's handled in the Disney thing, but in the Disney Trilogy they seem to have kept the part where institutional continuity was completely farked for whatever reason (e.g. Leia was allowed to train as a "Jedi" by Luke's definition while also being married).

So... yeah?  That's basically the situation as of "Return of the Jedi" and later.

Luke had a claim to legitimacy though, being trained and declared a Jedi by Yoda. Like I said, the next leadership (which he apparently got, albeit grudgingly on account of the more orthodox Jedi) gets to decide its own rules.

Having randos running around claiming themselves to be a Jedi is a different matter.


And by being the son of space jesus
 
2020-12-01 8:58:02 AM  

Quantumbunny: Kornchex: Haven't seen any of the animated stuff, though I am very interested after watching this season of Mando.

She doesn't force choke and she doesn't shoot lightning.  That puts her in the good column as far as I'm concerned.  Like Bslim said, screw the Jedi anyway.

Sure is definitely good, she's not a Sith or a Dark Jedi.

She was basically one step away from being a Jedi Knight and left the Order in her own terms. As Anakin's Padawan and someone who caught multiple Dark Lords including Darth Maul and multiple assassins, she's likely stronger than most Jedi would ever achieve, but she's not officially a Jedi.

Ashoka is one of reasons to watch Clone Wars for sure. Great character. Her reappearance in Rebels was one of the best arcs in that show.

I would put her appearance in Mandolorian as one of the best episodes of The Mandolorian yet.

She is proof that there are better stories in Star Wars than the Skywalker legacy.


Came here to say this.

Ahsoka's story is the best SW story currently.
 
2020-12-01 9:01:26 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Gnaglor: The only thing I can add is that the rubber folds in her head whatevers really wish they had gone the CG route with those. I felt like they bent foam swim protectors around her head.

At her age they should have been bigger, too.



giggity
 
2020-12-01 9:49:04 AM  

DerAppie: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Not really. Do you think the Jedi Roll Call Squad shows up in the Outer Rim to check the paperwork of every rando who claims he's a Jedi? If the guy has telekinesis, lightsabers, and mind tricks, and doesn't seem overtly evil, his claim to be a Jedi is for all intents and purposes proven. No one is going to give a shiat whether his mom paid his membership dues at the dojo on Coruscant or whatever.

If someone isn't causing trouble it might be too much of a cost on resources to track him/her/it down. True. But that doesn't mean the Jedi acknowledge his claim.

They might still proclaim "he isn't one of us" to the local authorities when they find out. Why? In case the 'Jedi' does go bad. Because why deal with the reputation hit when that happens. Better to have stuff on record beforehand than having to explain it all afterwards.

To the public at large it won't be too much of a difference until shiat goes down. But to any organisation it should matter which people proclaim themselves to be members.


Yeah, this is like claiming the Catholic Church wouldn't have had an interest in some random dude claiming to be an agent of the Church while engaging in heresy teaching a bunch of Native South Americans back in the 1500s
 
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