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(The Drive)   Bon voyage, Bonhomme Richard   (thedrive.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Amphibious assault ship, U.S. Navy, United States Navy, Royal Navy, ship's fate, Bonhomme Richard, Navy chain of command, Wasp class  
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6152 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 01 Dec 2020 at 1:05 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-30 8:46:29 PM  
30 mil to scrap it?
Put it on Craig's list and tweaker will have it gone tomorrow
 
2020-12-01 1:08:57 AM  
I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.
 
2020-12-01 1:16:15 AM  

Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.


Perhaps one of the new America class ships?
 
2020-12-01 1:18:36 AM  
Tow it and park it on a beach in Bangladesh and let nature take it's course
 
2020-12-01 1:20:49 AM  
Seemed crazy how they kept insisting, "It's still good!  It's still good!"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 1:20:57 AM  
Shame they can not sink it as a reef. At least get some positive use out of it other than just scrapping it.
 
2020-12-01 1:24:20 AM  

mr intrepid: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Perhaps one of the new America class ships?


The article mentions there is one under construction now but I'm guessing that was a planned addition, not a replacement, ship.
 
2020-12-01 1:28:59 AM  
More like au revoir... adieu... reposer en paix...

/tragic loss
 
2020-12-01 1:40:51 AM  
Movie set?
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2020-12-01 1:43:29 AM  

Mock26: Shame they can not sink it as a reef. At least get some positive use out of it other than just scrapping it.


Its too toxic at this point, based on the chemicals used to make it and to fight the fire.

Great thought, but, alas .

At least the damn Navy has good enough PR to say " this farks us 2 ways from sunday" as they scrap the good man.
Yes, setback. No further comment.
 
2020-12-01 1:46:18 AM  

Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.


They have plenty of boats as it is. Fark that bullshiat.
 
2020-12-01 1:55:16 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

They have plenty of boats as it is. Fark that bullshiat.


This. We have more aircraft carriers than everyone else on the planet combined.

MAKE IT STOP
 
2020-12-01 1:56:00 AM  

Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.


Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?
 
2020-12-01 2:02:04 AM  

haknudsen: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?


I think drone submarines have made every ship obsolete, but the Navy doesn't know that yet.
 
2020-12-01 2:20:08 AM  

haknudsen: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?


This ship is a taxi for Marines and their trucks.  I did a deployment on one, though not that one specifically.
 
2020-12-01 2:42:12 AM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

They have plenty of boats as it is. Fark that bullshiat.

This. We have more aircraft carriers than everyone else on the planet combined.

MAKE IT STOP


Strictly speaking, we don't have enough.

Based on treaty obligations and NATO membership, the US is generally supposed to have a total of 4 aircraft carriers operating at once, 2 around the Pacific, and 2 around the Atlantic.  This allows a carrier to be quickly deployed to deal with a problem, and still have a carrier available  in that hemisphere for strategic deterrence.  Needing 4 carriers out there at one time means you need actually TWELVE total aircraft carriers.  4 on patrol, 4 working up to patrol, 4 in refit and replenishment.  Ideally they rotate every ~6 months, because the workups actually do take about 5-6 months, and the ship on patrol is ready to come in for maintenance after about 6 months.

Want less carriers out there? Change the treaty obligations and make some other NATO countries do freedom of the seas exercises with serious assets (ie, not coastal defense ships).  Or change the treaties.  But unilaterally walking away from our treaties (which have the force of law) and obligations because "I don't like them" is something that *Republicans* do, and you're better than to advocate that.
 
2020-12-01 2:43:34 AM  
I guess the Navy's done playin' with their dinghy.
 
2020-12-01 2:45:53 AM  

vudukungfu: 30 mil to scrap it?
Put it on Craig's list and tweaker will have it gone tomorrow


Cleaning up that toxic mess won't be cheap.
 
2020-12-01 2:48:17 AM  

Mock26: Shame they can not sink it as a reef. At least get some positive use out of it other than just scrapping it.


"Scrapping" doesn't mean burying it in a landfill. It means disassembling it bit by bit so that every useful bit can be re-used, even if the best possible use is melting it down for some future ship (which still saves energy compared to virgin steel - just like recycling pop cans).
 
2020-12-01 3:19:13 AM  

haknudsen: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?


Yes. That has been the plan since the 1940's . It had worked, for a few years ( with a *lot* of help ) . I am not saying it has been the right thing to do, okay ? But that has been the way.
Now it seems it is the US versus China, with Russia burning coal and wrecking their own boats for a laugh . On purpose, because their conscripts hate their navy.
 
2020-12-01 3:21:39 AM  
Sink it in a couple hundred feet of water and turn it into a dive site.
 
2020-12-01 3:54:21 AM  
Rudyard Kipling, "Tommy":

It's "Tommy this," and "Tommy that,"
And "Throw 'im out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of our Country!"
When the guns begin to shoot.
 
2020-12-01 5:14:18 AM  

mr intrepid: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be.
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Perhaps one of the new America class ships?


AFAIK, all the proposed America-class already have names selected. Assuming Congress approves additional funding (unlikely, IMO), there won't be a new Bonhomme Richard in the Fleet for a decade or so.

Sorry I was right about BHR being sent to the breakers. The fire burned too long, and the structural damage was too severe for practical repair (they'd basically have to tear everything down to the keel and re-build). There will be a new one eventually. It might be a wholly different platform, but the USN likes the symbolism associated with the name.
 
2020-12-01 5:28:55 AM  

Mock26: Shame they can not sink it as a reef. At least get some positive use out of it other than just scrapping it.


They could, but that takes a cooperative agency willing to bear the cost of cleaning it and sinking it.  And permitting all of that.

If you can provide that, the Navy will literally give you the ship.

/ Ran a reefing org back in the day
// Sank no ships
/// Tres
 
2020-12-01 5:29:21 AM  

Enigmamf: Mock26: Shame they can not sink it as a reef. At least get some positive use out of it other than just scrapping it.

"Scrapping" doesn't mean burying it in a landfill. It means disassembling it bit by bit so that every useful bit can be re-used, even if the best possible use is melting it down for some future ship (which still saves energy compared to virgin steel - just like recycling pop cans).


Anyone who's played Hardspace Shipbreaker would know this.
 
2020-12-01 5:31:11 AM  

mmojo: Sink it in a couple hundred feet of water and turn it into a dive site.


Have to first clean up all the toxic shiat in it, which is why they're scrapping it in the first place.
 
2020-12-01 5:31:53 AM  

Enigmamf: Mock26: Shame they can not sink it as a reef. At least get some positive use out of it other than just scrapping it.

"Scrapping" doesn't mean burying it in a landfill. It means disassembling it bit by bit so that every useful bit can be re-used, even if the best possible use is melting it down for some future ship (which still saves energy compared to virgin steel - just like recycling pop cans).


They will haul it to Brownsville, cut it into pieces small enough to load onto train cars, haul it to Mexico and turn it into car parts.
 
2020-12-01 6:20:17 AM  

FightDirector: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

They have plenty of boats as it is. Fark that bullshiat.

This. We have more aircraft carriers than everyone else on the planet combined.

MAKE IT STOP

Strictly speaking, we don't have enough.

Based on treaty obligations and NATO membership, the US is generally supposed to have a total of 4 aircraft carriers operating at once, 2 around the Pacific, and 2 around the Atlantic.  This allows a carrier to be quickly deployed to deal with a problem, and still have a carrier available  in that hemisphere for strategic deterrence.  Needing 4 carriers out there at one time means you need actually TWELVE total aircraft carriers.  4 on patrol, 4 working up to patrol, 4 in refit and replenishment.  Ideally they rotate every ~6 months, because the workups actually do take about 5-6 months, and the ship on patrol is ready to come in for maintenance after about 6 months.

Want less carriers out there? Change the treaty obligations and make some other NATO countries do freedom of the seas exercises with serious assets (ie, not coastal defense ships).  Or change the treaties.  But unilaterally walking away from our treaties (which have the force of law) and obligations because "I don't like them" is something that *Republicans* do, and you're better than to advocate that.


This.  As unfortunate as this is, this was the LEAST BAD decision.  The side effects of this decision will require other ships to have to modify their maintenance periods to cover our obligations.   If you want to reduce the size of the Navy, have congress de-scope what the Navy needs to do.  Shrinking budgets doesn't change what needs to get done and then things get cut like training or  proper manning or paying for systems to be easy to use (all things that contributed to the collisions in 2017).

LHDs are actually pretty amazing in that a single one is equipped to take over a small country with landing craft, tanks, trucks, helicopters, marines and jets.  Oh yeah, each one also has a pretty decent hospital on board.
 
2020-12-01 6:23:44 AM  
The Navy said they need more ships so they can float and shoot and shiat...

That makes sense; they make sense to me.
 
2020-12-01 7:35:50 AM  
So no word on the arson angle yet?
 
2020-12-01 7:48:31 AM  

HempHead: haknudsen: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?

I think drone submarines have made every ship obsolete, but the Navy doesn't know that yet.


Yes they do. The US navy has the world's largest autonomous underwater vehicle program, because of course it does.

They know how vulnerable their ships are, and apparently they stopped worrying about designing them to be able to take any kind of battle damage, so they are worthless if they are hit in an engagement. One battle warships, its a joke.
 
2020-12-01 8:06:04 AM  

vudukungfu: 30 mil to scrap it?
Put it on Craig's list and tweaker will have it gone tomorrow


No, they're going to *SCARP* it.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone​/​37880/navy-will-spend-around-30-millio​n-to-scarp-fire-damaged-uss-bonhom​me-richard

Scarping is much more expensive than scrapping.
 
2020-12-01 8:19:02 AM  

Someone Else's Alt: They know how vulnerable their ships are, and apparently they stopped worrying about designing them to be able to take any kind of battle damage, so they are worthless if they are hit in an engagement. One battle warships, its a joke.


Let me guess, you're basing that analysis on this fire, aren't you?  The yard fire that occurred when the regular crew was off, a less trained and less careful work crew was in its place, flammable material was everywhere, and all the fire boundaries were open in ways that couldn't be quickly closed?

There's a reason yard fires spell the quick end for so many ships, and why crews hate shipyards.
 
2020-12-01 8:20:57 AM  

Gleeman: So no word on the arson angle yet?


A while back they said they had one sailor as suspect. That probably means whether they did it or not, NCIS will make their life hell and rig it to convict them anyway.
 
2020-12-01 8:21:57 AM  
I have this ship in fsx
I assembled an Amphibious Assault Group around it
I like to fly helicopters on and off her deck...
I has a sad
 
2020-12-01 8:25:46 AM  

Someone Else's Alt: HempHead: haknudsen: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?

I think drone submarines have made every ship obsolete, but the Navy doesn't know that yet.

Yes they do. The US navy has the world's largest autonomous underwater vehicle program, because of course it does.

They know how vulnerable their ships are, and apparently they stopped worrying about designing them to be able to take any kind of battle damage, so they are worthless if they are hit in an engagement. One battle warships, its a joke.


Eh, kinda. They have concepts and wish lists. The technology is very far from being fully developed, a lot of complicated problems aren't even close to being solved. It'll be two or three decades before you see truly autonomous warships in service.
 
2020-12-01 8:32:52 AM  

haknudsen: Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?


At least two of them.

US military planning has always been for two full-scale theaterwide wars at once.

Strategically, we've spent the last 75 years ready to fight the Pacific Theater and European Theater all over again.

We were prepared for a non-nuclear conventional World War III all through the Cold War, and even military downsizing after the end of the Cold War still kept us ready to fight on that scale, just without the massive Soviet Army to plan against.

The North Korean and Chinese navies are the two strongest adversary navies in the world to us (Russia is #3), and our strategic planning has always been to take them both on at once if we had to.
 
2020-12-01 8:47:23 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

They have plenty of boats as it is. Fark that bullshiat.


lol
 
2020-12-01 8:53:56 AM  
"I have not yet begun to scrap my ship!"
- John Paul Jones
 
2020-12-01 8:59:47 AM  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 9:48:42 AM  
I'll take it for half that. Pay me 15 mil.
 
2020-12-01 9:49:05 AM  

FightDirector: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

They have plenty of boats as it is. Fark that bullshiat.

This. We have more aircraft carriers than everyone else on the planet combined.

MAKE IT STOP

Strictly speaking, we don't have enough.

Based on treaty obligations and NATO membership, the US is generally supposed to have a total of 4 aircraft carriers operating at once, 2 around the Pacific, and 2 around the Atlantic.  This allows a carrier to be quickly deployed to deal with a problem, and still have a carrier available  in that hemisphere for strategic deterrence.  Needing 4 carriers out there at one time means you need actually TWELVE total aircraft carriers.  4 on patrol, 4 working up to patrol, 4 in refit and replenishment.  Ideally they rotate every ~6 months, because the workups actually do take about 5-6 months, and the ship on patrol is ready to come in for maintenance after about 6 months.

Want less carriers out there? Change the treaty obligations and make some other NATO countries do freedom of the seas exercises with serious assets (ie, not coastal defense ships).  Or change the treaties.  But unilaterally walking away from our treaties (which have the force of law) and obligations because "I don't like them" is something that *Republicans* do, and you're better than to advocate that.


I'd like to add another way this can be directly driven by the POTUS and that's via the National Security Strategy. It's the groundwork that guides and I fir a the combatant commander and tells them what to prepare for.  Their subsequent input influences the budget and force alignment.
 
2020-12-01 9:56:42 AM  
Doesn't the military have insurance for this sort of thing?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-12-01 10:00:42 AM  
Has the investigation / report on the fire been completed? What matters most is that the Navy learns from this and makes the changes necessary in operations to prevent this. I know that the circumstance of being in maintenance is the presumed the major contributor to the severity of the damage. Will things change now? That's all I care about, Navy's going to build more ships whether I like it or not. Can they prevent another loss like this is what matters.
 
2020-12-01 10:13:31 AM  

Invisible Obama: haknudsen: Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?

At least two of them.

US military planning has always been for two full-scale theaterwide wars at once.

Strategically, we've spent the last 75 years ready to fight the Pacific Theater and European Theater all over again.

We were prepared for a non-nuclear conventional World War III all through the Cold War, and even military downsizing after the end of the Cold War still kept us ready to fight on that scale, just without the massive Soviet Army to plan against.

The North Korean and Chinese navies are the two strongest adversary navies in the world to us (Russia is #3), and our strategic planning has always been to take them both on at once if we had to.


And we outnumber them what now, about 10 to 1, and with superior tech too?
 
2020-12-01 10:20:20 AM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Invisible Obama: haknudsen: Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?

At least two of them.

US military planning has always been for two full-scale theaterwide wars at once.

Strategically, we've spent the last 75 years ready to fight the Pacific Theater and European Theater all over again.

We were prepared for a non-nuclear conventional World War III all through the Cold War, and even military downsizing after the end of the Cold War still kept us ready to fight on that scale, just without the massive Soviet Army to plan against.

The North Korean and Chinese navies are the two strongest adversary navies in the world to us (Russia is #3), and our strategic planning has always been to take them both on at once if we had to.

And we outnumber them what now, about 10 to 1, and with superior tech too?


PRC has more subs and war ships than we do.  We probably still have the tech advantage (in most areas)
 
2020-12-01 10:28:50 AM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Invisible Obama: haknudsen: Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?

At least two of them.

US military planning has always been for two full-scale theaterwide wars at once.

Strategically, we've spent the last 75 years ready to fight the Pacific Theater and European Theater all over again.

We were prepared for a non-nuclear conventional World War III all through the Cold War, and even military downsizing after the end of the Cold War still kept us ready to fight on that scale, just without the massive Soviet Army to plan against.

The North Korean and Chinese navies are the two strongest adversary navies in the world to us (Russia is #3), and our strategic planning has always been to take them both on at once if we had to.

And we outnumber them what now, about 10 to 1, and with superior tech too?


This statement shows you have your head buried in the sand. They outnumber us quite drastically. China has 700+ active ships, while we cannot muster even 500 with our auxiliaries, reserves, and noncommissioned ships.
 
2020-12-01 10:33:55 AM  
They should rechristen the burnt out husk of a ship as the USS Donald Trump.
 
2020-12-01 10:43:23 AM  

haknudsen: Mokmo: I was reading around the time of the fire that the fleet was pretty stretched as the Bonhomme Richard would be out of commission way past the time it was supposed to be. 
Its scrapping isn't good for the fleet. Hope the navy is working on a replacement.

Why, are we planning to take on every Navy in the world at the same time?


The Bonhomme Richard isn't a ship you take out to fight another Navy.

It's a ship you take to land Marines somewhere and provide them support, it's the type of thing you need for an Okinawa or Normandy or Inchon type of action. With fewer of those, it makes force projection more difficult and less capable.

As it is, the US has treaty obligations with a number of foreign powers which are closely aligned with the US in political, cultural, and economic aims, and ships like the Bonhomme Richard are integral to meeting those obligations.
 
2020-12-01 11:07:45 AM  

jtown: Seemed crazy how they kept insisting, "It's still good!  It's still good!"

[Fark user image 499x383]


Whenever we go to the NEX or Commissary on 32d, that boat looks like it is in no condition to be refurbished.  I just assumed they were keeping it around to allow investigators to complete their job and throw the book at whatever hapless sailor was being blamed for arson.

/NEX is cheaper...BY FAR, than Marine Corps Exchange
//Only reason why I go there
 
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