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(CNBC)   When faced with a choice of vaccines, choose Moderna Vaccine - because the only other thing 94% effective and stable at 36 to 46° F is your dog on a walk in December   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Vaccine, coronavirus vaccine, Vaccination, first doses of Moderna, public health officials, vaccine race, Moderna's results, Moderna  
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1689 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2020 at 9:48 AM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-11-30 9:41:32 AM  
37 votes:
Like most people I will choose the vaccine that is available at my health care provider or pharmacy.  Beggars can't be choosers.
 
2020-11-30 9:50:30 AM  
16 votes:
Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.
 
2020-11-30 9:03:04 AM  
14 votes:
I'm already choosing the Moderna vaccine because that's the one Dolly Parton made.
 
2020-11-30 10:08:50 AM  
11 votes:
The difference is that the one requiring cold storage is easy to manufacture but requires more sensitive handling; the other is harder to make but easier to store.

The first will be chosen for medical facilities and the latter for distribution centres.

Wow, its almost like it's good to have options.
 
2020-11-30 9:52:58 AM  
10 votes:

tuxq: Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.


If it makes you feel any better I live somewhere it's legal and it doesnt help with uneasiness. If you want to get high that's cool, so do I. But it doesnt make dealing with uncertainty any more appealing.
 
2020-11-30 10:17:43 AM  
6 votes:

Emmett Fitz-Hume: But seriously, if you're developing a vaccine that is to be distributed on a large scale globally, and one of the candidates requires near deep space refrigeration to stay viable, that's just a non-starter. Go with the one that can transported and stored at reasonable temperatures.


Nah man. If you live near a hospital, they probably have a -70 freezer that can safely store that vaccine. Plus it's stable 5 days in the fridge. In the early days, I doubt many doses of either vaccine will spend much time in the fridge. They'll probably be taking it from the dry shipper, thawing, and shooting it into arms the same day.
 
2020-11-30 9:51:30 AM  
6 votes:
But seriously, if you're developing a vaccine that is to be distributed on a large scale globally, and one of the candidates requires near deep space refrigeration to stay viable, that's just a non-starter. Go with the one that can transported and stored at reasonable temperatures.
 
2020-11-30 9:36:30 AM  
5 votes:
But I already know a guy that was on the Pfizer trial. He didn't die, his dick didn't fall off, and he's producing antibodies.
 
2020-11-30 11:44:48 AM  
4 votes:

aerojockey: Dr. Nick Riviera: aerojockey: whargarrbl

Jesus Christ dude, take the vitriol down a notch.  And straw man much?

Pfft.  You don't like my tone, don't post idiotic bullshjt.


Sure, valid scientific skepticism being posted by a medical doctor who also holds a degree from a prestigious school of public health.  Being called names by someone who makes FLYNAVY look like a Rhodes scholar.

/welcome to Fark
 
2020-11-30 11:29:55 AM  
4 votes:

Dr. Nick Riviera: Maybe they have hired some really great people, but this is a 10 year old company that has never produced a successful vaccine and never run a large scale clinical trial, and now I am to believe they're beating Pfizer and J&J to the punch with the vaccine?


This is the logical thinking of an idiot.

First of all, of course they never produced a successful vaccine.  They're ten years old, and ten years or more is how long it takes to create a successful vaccine (in normal times).

Second, there are lot of technologies that were originally produced by someone who never produced if before, namely EVERY FARKING TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCE IN HISTORY.  If we did it your way and ruled out anything done by someone who'd never done it before, we'd still be living in caves.

You have other concerns.  Fine: base your skepticism on that, not on your brain-dead "they never did it before" logic.
 
2020-11-30 10:32:26 AM  
4 votes:

FLMountainMan: holdmybones: Karma Chameleon: tuxq: Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.

If it makes you feel any better I live somewhere it's legal and it doesnt help with uneasiness. If you want to get high that's cool, so do I. But it doesnt make dealing with uncertainty any more appealing.

Speak for yourself. It's about the only thing getting me through.

That's addiction.  This laughing off of "I'm just blackout drinking/toking through COVID" is not good.  Not judging you, just encouraging you to seek some more professional help.


I appreciate your concern but you are not a professional, you have never met me, and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you're comparing a little weed to being an alcoholic or pill addict.
 
2020-11-30 10:10:47 AM  
4 votes:

bronskrat: The one that doesn't prevent transmission? Although do any of them?


Citing the Express? OK. Bit that isn't what they are saying. They didn't directly test transmission. They didn't say it won't, just that they didn't test for it yet
 
2020-11-30 9:01:38 AM  
4 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-30 11:36:16 AM  
3 votes:

aerojockey: whargarrbl


Jesus Christ dude, take the vitriol down a notch.  And straw man much?
 
2020-11-30 10:39:24 AM  
3 votes:
One really cool thing about the Moderna vaccine is that it was 100% effective at preventing severe cases of covid. Eleven people who got the vaccine caught covid but none of them became seriously ill. This is just now starting to be talked about in the media, even though my son pointed it out to me when the results came out (he works as a scientist for Moderna).
 
2020-11-30 9:56:04 AM  
3 votes:
Since there will be shortages at first, call one the "Trump Vaccine," and release it in blue states. Call the other the "Biden Vaccine" and release it in red states.

When the supply situation is stable, switch the names.


/"This vaccine may contain soy, gluten, and peanuts. Common side effects include explosive flatulence."
 
2020-11-30 9:49:54 AM  
3 votes:
How does one choose a vaccine? You take what's given to you, no?
 
2020-11-30 2:30:32 PM  
2 votes:
 
2020-11-30 11:23:26 AM  
2 votes:

Nocrash: FarkinNortherner: Nocrash: My HMO isn't going to pay for a shot that is unsafe, or not effective.

I don't share your confidence. Your HMO's customers will leave in droves if it doesn't offer a vaccine.

It happens to be one of the largest in the midwest (huge actually the size of a small nation) and is used by numerous state level retirement systems so nobody is leaving. The bad part is you don't have much say on what is covered. A bit like the VA or medicare.  The good part is they really want to keep you healthy as it costs them $$ when you get sick.


Your HMO, along with all health insurance companies, is required under the ACA (aka "Obamacare") to cover preventative medicine, including vaccines.
 
2020-11-30 11:15:46 AM  
2 votes:

WillofJ2: 11 out of 15,000 that were vaccinated got covid

185 out of 15,000 unvaccinated got covid

So only 1 percentish of unvaccinated people caught covid and the vaccine is listed as 94.1% effective?   Just relative to the tiny amounts of people that became sick?

100 percent of the 11 vaccinated people didn't get a serious illness? So it is 100 percent effective at preventing serious disease?


Yes, all this data is mathematically sound.  The third stage trial isn't complete, so the numbers are preliminary, but even this small number of actually infected so far is good enough for high confidence, enough to request emergency use approval.

No the vaccince is probably not 100% effective at preventing serious cases, and as the trial continues a few serious cases may pop up in the vaccinated group.  But the zero serious cases (versus 30 in the control group) is very significant and we can legitimately say nearly 100% with high confidence.
 
2020-11-30 11:12:07 AM  
2 votes:

Emmett Fitz-Hume: But seriously, if you're developing a vaccine that is to be distributed on a large scale globally, and one of the candidates requires near deep space refrigeration to stay viable, that's just a non-starter. Go with the one that can transported and stored at reasonable temperatures.


Given that no one manufacturer can meet all of the demand, it seems to make sense to have the most logistically challenging ones used in areas that can handle it, and prioritize use of the easier to transport one for more remote or poorer regions.
 
2020-11-30 10:51:54 AM  
2 votes:

CordycepsInYourBrain: One really cool thing about the Moderna vaccine is that it was 100% effective at preventing severe cases of covid. Eleven people who got the vaccine caught covid but none of them became seriously ill. This is just now starting to be talked about in the media, even though my son pointed it out to me when the results came out (he works as a scientist for Moderna).


With only 11 cases, it is hard to be sure that vaccine helped.  There is better than a 14% chance of that happening naturally if the 30 severe cases out of 185 cases in the placebo group is representative (about 16% of cases becoming severe).

An odder thing is that the 185 positive cases out of ~15,000 people who got the placebo represents about 1.2% of those people.  The trial started in late July.  Between then and mid-November, the US reported something like 9 million new confirmed cases of COVID-19, about 2.7% of the total population.  That is a bizarre difference, particularly considering that trial participants are probably watched more closely than the general public for signs of the disease.

Compounding that oddity, the other vaccine trials also showed similarly positivity lower rates among their placebo groups than the general public.
 
2020-11-30 10:31:42 AM  
2 votes:

montreal_medic: Bowen: Emmett Fitz-Hume: But seriously, if you're developing a vaccine that is to be distributed on a large scale globally, and one of the candidates requires near deep space refrigeration to stay viable, that's just a non-starter. Go with the one that can transported and stored at reasonable temperatures.

Nah man. If you live near a hospital, they probably have a -70 freezer that can safely store that vaccine. Plus it's stable 5 days in the fridge. In the early days, I doubt many doses of either vaccine will spend much time in the fridge. They'll probably be taking it from the dry shipper, thawing, and shooting it into arms the same day.

Yup. And it really doesn't take a freezer at all. Fridge times mean it has time to go from "hub to bloodstream" while still in the viability window. Add in that -70 is "cooler of dry ice" territory, and even more time is possible with negligible cost and (temperature based) logistics


Yeah, a simple container of dry ice will keep it cold enough for several days, and dry ice is a technology that is pretty transportable globally.

And if the endpoint clinics aren't using all their doses within several days of receiving them, then there are other problems with your distribution plan beyond refrigeration.
 
2020-11-30 10:26:34 AM  
2 votes:

Bowen: Emmett Fitz-Hume: But seriously, if you're developing a vaccine that is to be distributed on a large scale globally, and one of the candidates requires near deep space refrigeration to stay viable, that's just a non-starter. Go with the one that can transported and stored at reasonable temperatures.

Nah man. If you live near a hospital, they probably have a -70 freezer that can safely store that vaccine. Plus it's stable 5 days in the fridge. In the early days, I doubt many doses of either vaccine will spend much time in the fridge. They'll probably be taking it from the dry shipper, thawing, and shooting it into arms the same day.


Yup. And it really doesn't take a freezer at all. Fridge times mean it has time to go from "hub to bloodstream" while still in the viability window. Add in that -70 is "cooler of dry ice" territory, and even more time is possible with negligible cost and (temperature based) logistics
 
2020-11-30 9:59:51 AM  
2 votes:
Thank you Moderna, and thank you to the folks who participated in the testing. Now gimmie vaccine! WHAR VACCINE?!?  :)
 
2020-11-30 2:19:42 PM  
1 vote:

1funguy: tuxq: Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.

Yeah, but isn't it a breathing problem thing anyway?
So if you get huffers lung and die 20 years later, that's gonna suck too.

What you REALLY want is shrooms and LSD.
IANAS, but I don't think anyone did anything aside from falling asleep in a walk-in cooler on that stuff.


Alright, definitely don't smoke it... vape it in something like a Volcano. But for the most part, it's to pass time while bored af at home.
 
2020-11-30 2:16:00 PM  
1 vote:
I suspect most people will not have the option to choose which vaccine they can get.  It's more likely to be a "get it" or "don't get it" choice.
 
2020-11-30 12:26:40 PM  
1 vote:

WillofJ2: 11 out of 15,000 that were vaccinated got covid

185 out of 15,000 unvaccinated got covid

So only 1 percentish of unvaccinated people caught covid and the vaccine is listed as 94.1% effective?   Just relative to the tiny amounts of people that became sick?


Strictly speaking, it doesn't matter whether few or many unvaccinated got COVID-19, it matters what proportion of them got COVID-19 relative to the vaccinated treatment group: you can still estimate a high efficacy if many fewer vaccinated got it than unvaccinated.

However, the small numbers of people who got COVID means that the estimates of efficacy (whether high or low) are more uncertain.  Here's a quick-and-dirty estimate of the uncertainty (Bayesian binomial model with uniform priors; adapted from Pfizer example here):

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-30 12:05:21 PM  
1 vote:

Serious Black: bronskrat: The one that doesn't prevent transmission? Although do any of them?

Dork Gently: CordycepsInYourBrain: One really cool thing about the Moderna vaccine is that it was 100% effective at preventing severe cases of covid. Eleven people who got the vaccine caught covid but none of them became seriously ill. This is just now starting to be talked about in the media, even though my son pointed it out to me when the results came out (he works as a scientist for Moderna).

With only 11 cases, it is hard to be sure that vaccine helped.  There is better than a 14% chance of that happening naturally if the 30 severe cases out of 185 cases in the placebo group is representative (about 16% of cases becoming severe).

An odder thing is that the 185 positive cases out of ~15,000 people who got the placebo represents about 1.2% of those people.  The trial started in late July.  Between then and mid-November, the US reported something like 9 million new confirmed cases of COVID-19, about 2.7% of the total population.  That is a bizarre difference, particularly considering that trial participants are probably watched more closely than the general public for signs of the disease.

Compounding that oddity, the other vaccine trials also showed similarly positivity lower rates among their placebo groups than the general public.

People who are willing to participate in a clinical trial for a vaccine generally fall into one of two buckets:

1) People who are desperate for money and will take whatever pittance a company like Pfizer offers them to participate.
2) People who are attuned to the ways that the disease whose vaccine they are testing spreads and how they can prevent its spread.

I think the people in the first bucket are more or less the same as the general public in terms of risk seeking/avoidance, so their odds of catching COVID would be indistinguishable from the general public. I think the people in the second bucket are WAY less risk seeking than the general publi ...


As long as there are equal numbers of people in the experimental and control groups in each bucket, it does not matter which of the "buckets" the people were in. What they do is look at the people who got sick, and how many were in the control and experimental groups. It does not matter that one of the "buckets" does not get the disease as often as the other because they are more careful. If, when they go to look, 90% of the people that got sick were in the control (placebo) group, then the vaccine is 90% effective.
 
2020-11-30 11:47:41 AM  
1 vote:

aerojockey: Second, there are lot of technologies that were originally produced by someone who never produced if before, namely EVERY FARKING TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCE IN HISTORY.  If we did it your way and ruled out anything done by someone who'd never done it before, we'd still be living in caves.

You have other concerns.  Fine: base your skepticism on that, not on your brain-dead "they never did it before" logic.


Nearly every advanced is based on incremental increases.  The corporate knowledge of why something is done is often more important than how something is done no matter what the technology level is.  A great example of this every modern paint can opener seems to have a built in bottle opener yet the prying blade can't be used to clean the rim of the can.  They know the how to stamp out clones but they don't understand the reason behind the features of their product.  No one has sold paint dyes in glass coke like bottles in more than a century which is why the opener is there and the blade should be a useful shape to pry a lid off without unrolling it and used to clean paint out of the lip.  The only way a 10 year old company could be making vaccines properly is by hiring lots of people who will be tied up with non-compete and non-disclosure agreements.
 
2020-11-30 11:43:43 AM  
1 vote:

bronskrat: The one that doesn't prevent transmission? Although do any of them?


Dork Gently: CordycepsInYourBrain: One really cool thing about the Moderna vaccine is that it was 100% effective at preventing severe cases of covid. Eleven people who got the vaccine caught covid but none of them became seriously ill. This is just now starting to be talked about in the media, even though my son pointed it out to me when the results came out (he works as a scientist for Moderna).

With only 11 cases, it is hard to be sure that vaccine helped.  There is better than a 14% chance of that happening naturally if the 30 severe cases out of 185 cases in the placebo group is representative (about 16% of cases becoming severe).

An odder thing is that the 185 positive cases out of ~15,000 people who got the placebo represents about 1.2% of those people.  The trial started in late July.  Between then and mid-November, the US reported something like 9 million new confirmed cases of COVID-19, about 2.7% of the total population.  That is a bizarre difference, particularly considering that trial participants are probably watched more closely than the general public for signs of the disease.

Compounding that oddity, the other vaccine trials also showed similarly positivity lower rates among their placebo groups than the general public.


People who are willing to participate in a clinical trial for a vaccine generally fall into one of two buckets:

1) People who are desperate for money and will take whatever pittance a company like Pfizer offers them to participate.
2) People who are attuned to the ways that the disease whose vaccine they are testing spreads and how they can prevent its spread.

I think the people in the first bucket are more or less the same as the general public in terms of risk seeking/avoidance, so their odds of catching COVID would be indistinguishable from the general public. I think the people in the second bucket are WAY less risk seeking than the general public, so their odds of catching COVID would be far lower than the general public. If more of the people in the trial are in the second bucket than the first, that would tip their odds of catching COVID down enough to make the markedly lower odds feasible.
 
2020-11-30 11:13:06 AM  
1 vote:
Of the American vaccines in development, the Moderna vaccine is the one of which I am most skeptical.  Maybe they have hired some really great people, but this is a 10 year old company that has never produced a successful vaccine and never run a large scale clinical trial, and now I am to believe they're beating Pfizer and J&J to the punch with the vaccine?  They've also been the least transparent of the big companies about their data.  Maybe they have produced a great vaccine, but they need to prove it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-he​a​lth-coronavirus-moderna-exclusive/excl​usive-moderna-spars-with-u-s-scientist​s-over-covid-19-vaccine-trials-idUSKBN​2481EU

https://www.biospace.com/article/crit​i​cs-target-moderna-s-interim-covid-19-v​accine-data/

https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/19/v​a​ccine-experts-say-moderna-didnt-produc​e-data-critical-to-assessing-covid-19-​vaccine/

Move fast and break things works in Silicon Valley when you're just trying to fool a bunch of twenty-somethings with way too much money.  It doesn't work in medicine, when you have career scientists and physicians who have spent decades studying this stuff and have no hesitation about calling you out on your bullshiat.  Theranos clearly showed this lesson.
 
2020-11-30 10:50:58 AM  
1 vote:

CordycepsInYourBrain: One really cool thing about the Moderna vaccine is that it was 100% effective at preventing severe cases of covid. Eleven people who got the vaccine caught covid but none of them became seriously ill. This is just now starting to be talked about in the media, even though my son pointed it out to me when the results came out (he works as a scientist for Moderna).


From what I have read roughly 5 to 10 percent of people develop severe symptoms. Is 11 out of 15,000 people enough to stand on that? I couldn't find if they did antibody tests on the other 14,989 people that were vaccinated but that just seems like too small of a number to make a broad claim
 
2020-11-30 10:38:09 AM  
1 vote:

Doc Daneeka: montreal_medic: Bowen: Emmett Fitz-Hume: But seriously, if you're developing a vaccine that is to be distributed on a large scale globally, and one of the candidates requires near deep space refrigeration to stay viable, that's just a non-starter. Go with the one that can transported and stored at reasonable temperatures.

Nah man. If you live near a hospital, they probably have a -70 freezer that can safely store that vaccine. Plus it's stable 5 days in the fridge. In the early days, I doubt many doses of either vaccine will spend much time in the fridge. They'll probably be taking it from the dry shipper, thawing, and shooting it into arms the same day.

Yup. And it really doesn't take a freezer at all. Fridge times mean it has time to go from "hub to bloodstream" while still in the viability window. Add in that -70 is "cooler of dry ice" territory, and even more time is possible with negligible cost and (temperature based) logistics

Yeah, a simple container of dry ice will keep it cold enough for several days, and dry ice is a technology that is pretty transportable globally.

And if the endpoint clinics aren't using all their doses within several days of receiving them, then there are other problems with your distribution plan beyond refrigeration.


Ah, you all schooled me good. I'll go back to eating paint chips. Thanks for the insights.
 
2020-11-30 10:15:03 AM  
1 vote:

holdmybones: Karma Chameleon: tuxq: Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.

If it makes you feel any better I live somewhere it's legal and it doesnt help with uneasiness. If you want to get high that's cool, so do I. But it doesnt make dealing with uncertainty any more appealing.

Speak for yourself. It's about the only thing getting me through.


That's addiction.  This laughing off of "I'm just blackout drinking/toking through COVID" is not good.  Not judging you, just encouraging you to seek some more professional help.
 
2020-11-30 10:04:20 AM  
1 vote:

Karma Chameleon: tuxq: Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.

If it makes you feel any better I live somewhere it's legal and it doesnt help with uneasiness. If you want to get high that's cool, so do I. But it doesnt make dealing with uncertainty any more appealing.


Speak for yourself. It's about the only thing getting me through.
 
2020-11-30 10:01:40 AM  
1 vote:

Karma Chameleon: tuxq: Forget the vaccine, we need some medication that's going to ease the mental illness the pandemic/lockdown has created. I would like to suggest the federal legalization of marijuana.

/although I'd like a vaccine, too.

If it makes you feel any better I live somewhere it's legal and it doesnt help with uneasiness. If you want to get high that's cool, so do I. But it doesnt make dealing with uncertainty any more appealing.


Makes it worse sometimes, honestly.  Weed can make you overly anxious about shiat, even when it's perfectly reasonable to be pretty anxious in the first place.  Paranoia may destroy ya.

/it's not unmanageable or anything
//with experience you learn to dismiss it when it's just the weed talking
///but there is a learning curve of sorts
 
2020-11-30 9:55:45 AM  
1 vote:
 
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