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(CNN)   New York City reopening schools in early December despite, y'know, everything   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Fail, High school, country's largest public school district, public school buildings, School, important things, Education, closing schools, Pre-K  
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723 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2020 at 5:17 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-30 4:15:17 AM  
As an NYC parent, I don't get it. There would be two weeks of school left before the holidays. Just do it remote.
 
2020-11-30 5:23:29 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: As an NYC parent, I don't get it. There would be two weeks of school left before the holidays.


Exactly.  Two weeks with a reduced population since a lot of folks will just keep their kids at home while the school system can start putting procedures into practice and refine them.  Then when it goes into Holiday break they'll have some time to assess how successful they were based on infections discovered during break.
 
2020-11-30 5:24:50 AM  
And for no obvious reason, beside every school, a 45ft refrigerated trailer filled with empty racks, with large signs on the side saying "Pencils".
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-11-30 5:26:38 AM  
They're opening schools despite Fauci saying open the schools? What happened to defying the experts and going your own way? Isn't this America?
 
2020-11-30 5:26:46 AM  
There's no right answer.
Remote learning on a large scale is a joke even when it works perfectly, and it doesn't work more often than not for most families.
In person learning seemed to be doing well for a while, but it's probably a big factor in this slow creeping surge we've seen since mid October
Instituting a national gap year where we all just agree to say "fark it, we'll take the L, everyone meet back in October. Sorry, everyone born from 2003 to 2015 -  you'll graduate at 19 instead of 18, farking deal with it" seems the best, but completely unrealistic option.

so, you tell me
 
2020-11-30 5:53:01 AM  
Meh, the spike after thanksgiving should have everyone scared and calling off a lot of in-person stuff.

/caveat: "everyone" with half a brain
 
2020-11-30 6:23:39 AM  
2 weeks won't make a difference? Hell, I say 2 YEARS wouldn't matter. The public educational system in the US is a complete joke, especially when that 'edyookayshun' comes at the potential expense of death or permanent (?) disability.

I didn't learn a single goddamned thing in public school that was worth staying there for, except perhaps that human beings are, by and large, idiot garbage, and not worth one's time.
 
2020-11-30 6:30:40 AM  
The kids won't learn anything they can't learn on Sesame Street.  The high school kids can watch Euphoria or something.
 
2020-11-30 6:32:06 AM  

Resident Muslim: Meh, the spike after thanksgiving should have everyone scared and calling off a lot of in-person stuff.

/caveat: "everyone" with half a brain


The 4:1 R0 is what people don't seem to understand. And it's those 4 people who get it from the initial infected that end up flooding the hospitals. So...4-6 weeks from now, hospitals all around the country that are currently borderline, are all going on diversion or emergency capacity plans. And any area lucky enough to miss out on all the drama will get a second round after Christmas and New Years. Because putting off holidays for a year is just too much effort for most folks.
 
2020-11-30 6:36:09 AM  

Golden Brown Delicious: 2 weeks won't make a difference? Hell, I say 2 YEARS wouldn't matter. The public educational system in the US is a complete joke, especially when that 'edyookayshun' comes at the potential expense of death or permanent (?) disability.

I didn't learn a single goddamned thing in public school that was worth staying there for, except perhaps that human beings are, by and large, idiot garbage, and not worth one's time.


Your personal experience is unfortunate.

At the same time, your assertion is moronic.
 
2020-11-30 6:40:27 AM  

Golden Brown Delicious: 2 weeks won't make a difference? Hell, I say 2 YEARS wouldn't matter. The public educational system in the US is a complete joke, especially when that 'edyookayshun' comes at the potential expense of death or permanent (?) disability.

I didn't learn a single goddamned thing in public school that was worth staying there for, except perhaps that human beings are, by and large, idiot garbage, and not worth one's time.


CURRICULUM!
ZERO TOLERANCE!
EXTERMINATE!
EXTERMINATE!
EXTERMINATE!
 
2020-11-30 6:40:53 AM  

mcsiegs: Golden Brown Delicious: 2 weeks won't make a difference? Hell, I say 2 YEARS wouldn't matter. The public educational system in the US is a complete joke, especially when that 'edyookayshun' comes at the potential expense of death or permanent (?) disability.

I didn't learn a single goddamned thing in public school that was worth staying there for, except perhaps that human beings are, by and large, idiot garbage, and not worth one's time.

Your personal experience is unfortunate.

At the same time, your assertion is moronic.


I've gotta agree with them, though. Learning to read and write was the only thing I needed. The internet taught me the rest...including higher mathematics. I could have gone without the cliquey "do you know who their father is" bullshiat from the teachers. And the judgement and complete lack of compassion/understanding when my home life took a dive into the depressing. Oh look a straight-A student suddenly started failing and skipping school, better expel them so they don't fark up our funding.
 
2020-11-30 6:43:01 AM  

CarnySaur: The kids won't learn anything they can't learn on Sesame Street.  The high school kids can watch Euphoria or something.


Seeing my youngest (~2) develop while using an iPad, empirically and subject matter-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if future apps do a better job of teaching kids basic math, reading, grammar, etc. what will be lost is the interaction and discussions. Emotionally stunted people can make good cogs, but bad teams.

/I believe in the middle ground
//best of both worlds
///and I want to be the change I want to see
 
2020-11-30 6:45:39 AM  
Despite the negative covfefe, I believe.
 
2020-11-30 6:55:41 AM  

Resident Muslim: CarnySaur: The kids won't learn anything they can't learn on Sesame Street.  The high school kids can watch Euphoria or something.

Seeing my youngest (~2) develop while using an iPad, empirically and subject matter-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if future apps do a better job of teaching kids basic math, reading, grammar, etc. what will be lost is the interaction and discussions. Emotionally stunted people can make good cogs, but bad teams.

/I believe in the middle ground
//best of both worlds
///and I want to be the change I want to see


similar feeling here.  my kids (now 6 and 8) had tablets since birth and the do learn.  some of the games and lesson plans out there are fantastic.  I am okay with gamification of education.  my kid has learned a lot about gender and gems from Steven Universe.

on the emotional front, our school actually has "emotions class" which I think it great, despite how "lib" it sounds.  kids who can recognize their feelings and how to process them is a skill a lot of adult could use.
 
2020-11-30 7:31:12 AM  
Resident Muslim - Seeing my youngest (~2) develop while using an iPad, empirically and subject matter-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if future apps do a better job of teaching kids basic math, reading, grammar, etc. what will be lost is the interaction and discussions. Emotionally stunted people can make good cogs, but bad teams.

Yeah, but I am so over dealing with emotionally stunted people. These days, it seems most people are not even slightly aware of the term 'community', or 'neighborhood', or just the simple fact that we are in a society now and we work better together. Of course, that does not jibe with the 'bootstrap' crowd, but neither does the hypocrisy of strutting around telling everyone you created your life out of the ether while your company is getting a bailout... again. Our society is screwed and it is partly the fact that schools are now overloaded daycare centers. Too much fru-fru and not enough learning. (I mean, since there are topics that some people do not want their kids to learn from anyone... like tolerance, understanding, empathy... since there is no profit in those things).
 
2020-11-30 7:32:58 AM  

tuxq: mcsiegs: Golden Brown Delicious: 2 weeks won't make a difference? Hell, I say 2 YEARS wouldn't matter. The public educational system in the US is a complete joke, especially when that 'edyookayshun' comes at the potential expense of death or permanent (?) disability.

I didn't learn a single goddamned thing in public school that was worth staying there for, except perhaps that human beings are, by and large, idiot garbage, and not worth one's time.

Your personal experience is unfortunate.

At the same time, your assertion is moronic.

I've gotta agree with them, though. Learning to read and write was the only thing I needed. The internet taught me the rest...including higher mathematics. I could have gone without the cliquey "do you know who their father is" bullshiat from the teachers. And the judgement and complete lack of compassion/understanding when my home life took a dive into the depressing. Oh look a straight-A student suddenly started failing and skipping school, better expel them so they don't fark up our funding.



Same. Except for the part about the internet. The most "hilarious" thing I remember from my public school experience was being hospitalized a week for something that would have killed me 100 years earlier and subsequently getting a form letter sent home from the school about how my excessive absences are going to lead to me being held back because reasons. Weirdly enough I was still in the 99% percentile on most everything in their fatuous standardized tests.
 
2020-11-30 7:34:33 AM  
Our school district reopened 5x a week starting the day after election. While there are cases at the elementary level, it is is not crazy.  It is still a risk.  Coming out of Thanksgiving they are going back to hybrid (half the school home, half in class, alternating by days) because case counts in the area are skyrocketing.

Tbqh, I am shocked at how poorly hybrid seems to be going.

We put our kids in cyber this year.  This is the safest choice.

I think full time is no less risky than hybrid, and it seems much better for students and teachers.  It is consistent.

What we don't have is these amazing weekly tests!! Wow!   That is a game changer for early identification and reducing or preventing community spread through the classroom.   I have zero doubt that there are families who are refusing to test when mild symptoms present.  Kids get sick.  Easy to convince oneself that the sniffles are the common cold.
 
2020-11-30 7:43:06 AM  
Scientific consensus around the world is that it is fine to open schools except when there is a particularly severe surge in the surrounding community. Fark hates it when President Trump ignores scientific advice.
 
2020-11-30 7:43:32 AM  
The infection rates are growing and are about to be out of control.  If you closed the schools to prevent spread but open now at the worst point the US has seen, well, what was the point of closing in the first place?  Since idiots can't stay out of bars and churches we should just let the kids f*ck sh*t up, too?
It's all so willfully senseless at so many levels, allowing spread of sickness and death appears to be intentional.
 
2020-11-30 7:48:06 AM  

Golden Brown Delicious: 2 weeks won't make a difference? Hell, I say 2 YEARS wouldn't matter. The public educational system in the US is a complete joke, especially when that 'edyookayshun' comes at the potential expense of death or permanent (?) disability.

I didn't learn a single goddamned thing in public school that was worth staying there for, except perhaps that human beings are, by and large, idiot garbage, and not worth one's time.


Now we know DeVos's fark handle.
 
2020-11-30 8:06:15 AM  

fuzzybacchus: Our school district reopened 5x a week starting the day after election. While there are cases at the elementary level, it is is not crazy.  It is still a risk.  Coming out of Thanksgiving they are going back to hybrid (half the school home, half in class, alternating by days) because case counts in the area are skyrocketing.

Tbqh, I am shocked at how poorly hybrid seems to be going.

We put our kids in cyber this year.  This is the safest choice.

I think full time is no less risky than hybrid, and it seems much better for students and teachers.  It is consistent.

What we don't have is these amazing weekly tests!! Wow!   That is a game changer for early identification and reducing or preventing community spread through the classroom.   I have zero doubt that there are families who are refusing to test when mild symptoms present.  Kids get sick.  Easy to convince oneself that the sniffles are the common cold.


Hybrid for us was terrible. 2 weeks ago we had to go full virtual, and the 4th graders work dropped by at least half. The hybrid model was 2 self learn days, one meeting day, 2 days in class. They gave him so much just idiotic busy work for those 2 self study days that he was nearly in tears each day. And that's all it was - busy work. Not anything new. Not anything valuable. Just busy. He needs the social interaction of a class and friends, but I don't think he's willing to go back to hybrid with that kind of work load.
 
2020-11-30 8:10:42 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: As an NYC parent, I don't get it. There would be two weeks of school left before the holidays. Just do it remote.


Why are so many people, in NYC, screaming for schools to reopen?
 
2020-11-30 8:15:42 AM  
All the studies point to elementary schools and middle schools as no risk to the population.  High schools maybe.  And colleges are a big F off.

And there are plenty of studies showing the "covid slide".

That said, anything that looks like it increases the risk in a high population area should be met with some trepelidation.  Especially since it is for two weeks only...then a big break again.
 
2020-11-30 8:17:34 AM  

orbister: Scientific consensus around the world is that it is fine to open schools except when there is a particularly severe surge in the surrounding community. Fark hates it when President Trump ignores scientific advice.


Exactly.  And the only place reopening schools made it worse was Israel this summer when they opened with zero protections...not even masks.
 
2020-11-30 8:22:53 AM  
You gotta love "conservatives".
For decades, they've been autistically screeching for home schooling - and now, they are rabidly opposed to it, because it can serve an actual useful purpose.

Conservatives: "We wanna do thing! We wanna do thing!! We wanna do thing!!!"
Liberals: "Okay - thing is good idea now - do!"
Conservatives: "Oh noes!! Thing bad now!!'
Holy shiat what a bunch of worthless, two faced cocksuckers.
 
2020-11-30 8:32:24 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: The infection rates are growing and are about to be out of control.  If you closed the schools to prevent spread but open now at the worst point the US has seen, well, what was the point of closing in the first place?  Since idiots can't stay out of bars and churches we should just let the kids f*ck sh*t up, too?
It's all so willfully senseless at so many levels, allowing spread of sickness and death appears to be intentional.


Willfully senseless is pretending schools opening spreads the virus despite numerous media reports to the contrary.

And also pretending we're all gonna die because Thanksgiving. (just like everybody said abt Memorial Day, then 4th of July, then Labor Day etc)
 
2020-11-30 8:33:43 AM  
Since everyone including subby didn't bother reading past the headline: Only Pre-K, elementary, and special education schools are opening back up.

My niece's in person classes (for 2nd grade) in NYC are limited to 10 students. Her online classes? 45. A lot of her online curriculum consists of YouTube clips. Her online teacher has zero control over the class and still hasn't figured out Zoom. My niece's reading and writing skills are slipping as a result.

In order to better enable distancing, students from the elementary schools will now go to the bigger intermediate and high school facilities.

So yeah, more in person learning for the students that need it most, an approach recommended by epidemiologists? This is great news.
 
2020-11-30 8:36:23 AM  
I can't wait for the complaints from kids cutting fingers off doing remote shop class. Using your dad's band saw supervised over zoom doesn't really count as supervised if you ask me.

Shop class was a breeze back in the day, as my dad had already taught me how to use all of the power tools in the class.
 
2020-11-30 8:40:50 AM  

jso2897: You gotta love "conservatives".
For decades, they've been autistically screeching for home schooling - and now, they are rabidly opposed to it, because it can serve an actual useful purpose.

Conservatives: "We wanna do thing! We wanna do thing!! We wanna do thing!!!"
Liberals: "Okay - thing is good idea now - do!"
Conservatives: "Oh noes!! Thing bad now!!'
Holy shiat what a bunch of worthless, two faced cocksuckers.


You have misrepresented both sides.  While homeschooling is often pushed by some conservatives (it also has its proponents on the crunchy side who think schools are conformity factories) , their main education push is schools of choice rather than homeschooling.  And liberals aren't pushing homeschooling now (meaning that the student is pulled out of the public school system and taught by a parent), they want remote learning, which is vastly different than homeschooling.
 
2020-11-30 8:40:55 AM  

OldJames: I can't wait for the complaints from kids cutting fingers off doing remote shop class. Using your dad's band saw supervised over zoom doesn't really count as supervised if you ask me.

Shop class was a breeze back in the day, as my dad had already taught me how to use all of the power tools in the class.


Did the light go on when you pulled the elephant lamps string?
 
2020-11-30 8:42:00 AM  

Zombies ate my neighbors: fuzzybacchus: Our school district reopened 5x a week starting the day after election. While there are cases at the elementary level, it is is not crazy.  It is still a risk.  Coming out of Thanksgiving they are going back to hybrid (half the school home, half in class, alternating by days) because case counts in the area are skyrocketing.

Tbqh, I am shocked at how poorly hybrid seems to be going.

We put our kids in cyber this year.  This is the safest choice.

I think full time is no less risky than hybrid, and it seems much better for students and teachers.  It is consistent.

What we don't have is these amazing weekly tests!! Wow!   That is a game changer for early identification and reducing or preventing community spread through the classroom.   I have zero doubt that there are families who are refusing to test when mild symptoms present.  Kids get sick.  Easy to convince oneself that the sniffles are the common cold.

Hybrid for us was terrible. 2 weeks ago we had to go full virtual, and the 4th graders work dropped by at least half. The hybrid model was 2 self learn days, one meeting day, 2 days in class. They gave him so much just idiotic busy work for those 2 self study days that he was nearly in tears each day. And that's all it was - busy work. Not anything new. Not anything valuable. Just busy. He needs the social interaction of a class and friends, but I don't think he's willing to go back to hybrid with that kind of work load.


Our hybrid was supposed to be synchronous, ie, on the home days you follow via live stream.  It either didn't happen or was implemented poorly.  Regardless, between the lack of planning (our school board was convinced we would have it beat by September) and concerns about consistency, we put our kids in cyber.  I am lucky my kids (6 and 9) get along great and support each other.

If there were free weekly tests I'd  have considered sending my kids back in person.

...Maybe not now with where case counts are....
 
2020-11-30 8:45:32 AM  

dumbobruni: Since everyone including subby didn't bother reading past the headline: Only Pre-K, elementary, and special education schools are opening back up.

My niece's in person classes (for 2nd grade) in NYC are limited to 10 students. Her online classes? 45. A lot of her online curriculum consists of YouTube clips. Her online teacher has zero control over the class and still hasn't figured out Zoom. My niece's reading and writing skills are slipping as a result.

In order to better enable distancing, students from the elementary schools will now go to the bigger intermediate and high school facilities.

So yeah, more in person learning for the students that need it most, an approach recommended by epidemiologists? This is great news.


I agree.  I wish all school districts has brains.  Our school district was planning (still is?) To send middle school back 5x in January.  To do this they will sit 2 to a desk and desks 4 feet apart at most.

In Pennsylvania, the only mandate is 6 feet apart if masks are off (lunch), everything else is a suggestion.
 
2020-11-30 8:46:27 AM  

Chris Ween: OldJames: I can't wait for the complaints from kids cutting fingers off doing remote shop class. Using your dad's band saw supervised over zoom doesn't really count as supervised if you ask me.

Shop class was a breeze back in the day, as my dad had already taught me how to use all of the power tools in the class.

Did the light go on when you pulled the elephant lamps string?


That one got past me, I'll have to google it
 
2020-11-30 8:53:10 AM  

jso2897: You gotta love "conservatives".
For decades, they've been autistically screeching for home schooling - and now, they are rabidly opposed to it, because it can serve an actual useful purpose.


We're using "autistic" as an insult now, are we?
 
2020-11-30 8:56:52 AM  

orbister: jso2897: You gotta love "conservatives".
For decades, they've been autistically screeching for home schooling - and now, they are rabidly opposed to it, because it can serve an actual useful purpose.

We're using "autistic" as an insult now, are we?


Its the "enlightened" view.
 
2020-11-30 9:00:55 AM  

orbister: Scientific consensus around the world is that it is fine to open schools except when there is a particularly severe surge in the surrounding community. Fark hates it when President Trump ignores scientific advice.


Farkers are only pro-science when it confirms what they want to believe.
 
2020-11-30 9:05:48 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: As an NYC parent, I don't get it. There would be two weeks of school left before the holidays. Just do it remote.


A lot of people less fortunate than you don't have jobs they can work from home.
 
2020-11-30 9:11:36 AM  

Flashlight: orbister: Scientific consensus around the world is that it is fine to open schools except when there is a particularly severe surge in the surrounding community. Fark hates it when President Trump ignores scientific advice.

Farkers are only pro-science when it confirms what they want to believe.


People.   Not just Farkers.
 
2020-11-30 9:32:39 AM  

big pig peaches: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: As an NYC parent, I don't get it. There would be two weeks of school left before the holidays. Just do it remote.

A lot of people less fortunate than you don't have jobs they can work from home.


I had proposed to our school district to split the enrollment such that those with educational needs could go in person 5 days a week, those on nutritional plans as well, and everyone else needed proof that they "need" it, ie, all parents work.  Everyone else full remote until we understood what the safety implications were.  This was my idea of "hybrid."
I was basically laughed at.

Later, I laughed at myself as I watched the entire school district devolve into a mountain of covid Karens.   How could I have been so foolish to think people would put others ahead of their own selfish desire.  A full 1/3 of our district enrolled in the new cyber school.  2/3 chose in person.  When our district put everyone full remote for 2 weeks, the amount of sobbing from those people ok Facebook was appalling.  Listening to them moan about 2 weeks of kids at home and how terrible their lives are boiled me up.  Writing this at home (thankful my job lets me) as my two kids love stream their cyber teachers in the room next door.

I get it, I am lucky that I can do this.  I wish others understood there is a difference between "needing" in person school vs "really really really feeling inconvenienced" by remote learning.
 
2020-11-30 9:47:43 AM  

Hyjamon: Resident Muslim: CarnySaur: The kids won't learn anything they can't learn on Sesame Street.  The high school kids can watch Euphoria or something.

Seeing my youngest (~2) develop while using an iPad, empirically and subject matter-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if future apps do a better job of teaching kids basic math, reading, grammar, etc. what will be lost is the interaction and discussions. Emotionally stunted people can make good cogs, but bad teams.

/I believe in the middle ground
//best of both worlds
///and I want to be the change I want to see

similar feeling here.  my kids (now 6 and 8) had tablets since birth and the do learn.  some of the games and lesson plans out there are fantastic.  I am okay with gamification of education.  my kid has learned a lot about gender and gems from Steven Universe.

on the emotional front, our school actually has "emotions class" which I think it great, despite how "lib" it sounds.  kids who can recognize their feelings and how to process them is a skill a lot of adult could use.


Trust me, I know.
I do "leadership development"* and part of that is emotional savviness to get to most out of people in a happy, productive and team-focused way.

Part of that emotional intelligence bit is self-awareness (including recognizing our own mood and how it affects our team and our work both positively and negatively).
In the workbook we actually have a page that segments and lists different emotions. It exists because a lot of executives have emotions ranging from "Good" all the way to "OK".

A LOT of people when asked how are they feeling would describe their situation, eg "I'm drowning in work." I always reply with "well, I don't know what that means to you, does that make you happy? Sad? Tired?"

If you don't know how you feel, how can you realize the impact of it? (Both positive and negative). If it's positive, how can you keep and recreate it? If it's negative, how can you change it?
 
nce
2020-11-30 9:54:27 AM  
"Schools" is too broad a concept to talk about.  We should differentiate between primary, middle, and high schools, because the transmission is known to be different.  Early primary may be much more safe going to school than middle or high schools.

Also, please imaging what underfunded, overcrowded, ancient schools in NYC might look like.  At full in-person capacity there is going to be zero possibility of social distancing in a lot of these environments.    Even at limited capacity there are bottlenecks.  Add in the sanitation and ventilation problems that come with a lot of these old buildings and it could be vastly different from a suburban environment, or any modern buildings.

I realize these problems exist in may other locales too (maybe even most of them), but its important to keep some perspective.
 
2020-11-30 10:02:23 AM  
parents of 'murica, you are doing your children a great injustice by letting others dictate and put your loved ones in life threatening situations. every problem has a solution. there are 50 ways to leave your lover. Paul Simon said so. there are 100 ways to fold a napkin. Martha Stewart said so.

there are talented, willing and able senior citizens that could be teaching your children while you work. they live in your condos, your apartments, your neighborhoods. they're all over the place.

same for senior citizen complexes, and maybe that would inspire someone to upping their game so they stop dropping like flies because of covid exposure.

our over stuffed prison systems have lots of college degreed intelligent folks who could be teaching children. not all convicts are hard case gang member skinhead rapist killers. far from it.

i'm an idiot, i know - but this is just to show you that some of you smarty pants can come up with a better answer than we have now. get to it people. stop letting politicians and nitwits run your life. act like you give a damn for once. your kid, not mine. i don't care if they live or die but you should.
 
2020-11-30 10:02:35 AM  

payattention: Resident Muslim - Seeing my youngest (~2) develop while using an iPad, empirically and subject matter-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if future apps do a better job of teaching kids basic math, reading, grammar, etc. what will be lost is the interaction and discussions. Emotionally stunted people can make good cogs, but bad teams.

Yeah, but I am so over dealing with emotionally stunted people. These days, it seems most people are not even slightly aware of the term 'community', or 'neighborhood', or just the simple fact that we are in a society now and we work better together. Of course, that does not jibe with the 'bootstrap' crowd, but neither does the hypocrisy of strutting around telling everyone you created your life out of the ether while your company is getting a bailout... again. Our society is screwed and it is partly the fact that schools are now overloaded daycare centers. Too much fru-fru and not enough learning. (I mean, since there are topics that some people do not want their kids to learn from anyone... like tolerance, understanding, empathy... since there is no profit in those things).


Thanks for your thoughts.
There actually is a LOT of profit tolerance, understanding and empathy*.
They actually develop higher performing teams, improve communication, reduce injuries, have less sick days and employee turnover (and therefore training), mistakes are reduced, feedback is given and people develop and grow.
That's just some of the benefits.

The problem is when you have distrust in the system, us-vs-them (whether management levels, or different departments), wrong incentives, all of these and more create toxic cultures.

As for societal vs individualistic, that's a whole ingrained issue and goes deeper than organizations.
 
2020-11-30 10:05:10 AM  

Resident Muslim: payattention: Resident Muslim - Seeing my youngest (~2) develop while using an iPad, empirically and subject matter-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if future apps do a better job of teaching kids basic math, reading, grammar, etc. what will be lost is the interaction and discussions. Emotionally stunted people can make good cogs, but bad teams.

Yeah, but I am so over dealing with emotionally stunted people. These days, it seems most people are not even slightly aware of the term 'community', or 'neighborhood', or just the simple fact that we are in a society now and we work better together. Of course, that does not jibe with the 'bootstrap' crowd, but neither does the hypocrisy of strutting around telling everyone you created your life out of the ether while your company is getting a bailout... again. Our society is screwed and it is partly the fact that schools are now overloaded daycare centers. Too much fru-fru and not enough learning. (I mean, since there are topics that some people do not want their kids to learn from anyone... like tolerance, understanding, empathy... since there is no profit in those things).

Thanks for your thoughts.
There actually is a LOT of profit tolerance, understanding and empathy*.
They actually develop higher performing teams, improve communication, reduce injuries, have less sick days and employee turnover (and therefore training), mistakes are reduced, feedback is given and people develop and grow.
That's just some of the benefits.

The problem is when you have distrust in the system, us-vs-them (whether management levels, or different departments), wrong incentives, all of these and more create toxic cultures.

As for societal vs individualistic, that's a whole ingrained issue and goes deeper than organizations.


And how are you doing?
I have you Farkied from some funny thread, also noted that you were going through a rough patch.
Hope things are better now.
 
2020-11-30 10:20:03 AM  

sinko swimo: parents of 'murica, you are doing your children a great injustice by letting others dictate and put your loved ones in life threatening situations. every problem has a solution. there are 50 ways to leave your lover. Paul Simon said so. there are 100 ways to fold a napkin. Martha Stewart said so.

there are talented, willing and able senior citizens that could be teaching your children while you work. they live in your condos, your apartments, your neighborhoods. they're all over the place.

same for senior citizen complexes, and maybe that would inspire someone to upping their game so they stop dropping like flies because of covid exposure.

our over stuffed prison systems have lots of college degreed intelligent folks who could be teaching children. not all convicts are hard case gang member skinhead rapist killers. far from it.

i'm an idiot, i know - but this is just to show you that some of you smarty pants can come up with a better answer than we have now. get to it people. stop letting politicians and nitwits run your life. act like you give a damn for once. your kid, not mine. i don't care if they live or die but you should.


You got the "I'm an idiot " part right at least
 
2020-11-30 10:28:59 AM  
How much evidence do some of you need to see before you will calm down about the schools being open?  Schools don't seem to be a contributor to any Covid spread.  Especially elementary schools.
 
2020-11-30 11:38:00 AM  

Petey the Headless Parakeet: How much evidence do some of you need to see before you will calm down about the schools being open?  Schools don't seem to be a contributor to any Covid spread.  Especially elementary schools.


I get this, but I don't see how it's possible.  I'm not saying it's not, but elementary school kids are little snot factories which I would think would be a risk.
 
2020-11-30 11:54:02 AM  
We're just really not that bright, are we?
 
2020-11-30 11:58:22 AM  

mjbok: Petey the Headless Parakeet: How much evidence do some of you need to see before you will calm down about the schools being open?  Schools don't seem to be a contributor to any Covid spread.  Especially elementary schools.

I get this, but I don't see how it's possible.  I'm not saying it's not, but elementary school kids are little snot factories which I would think would be a risk.


could it be they are most likely to be asymptomatic and can still attend school.? If the parents are sick but the kid isn't, they may still be sending them to school.  hence there is no reported covid exposure since the parents wouldn't self report to the school.  I have already received an angry email from the principal about kids showing up visibly sick, attending while awaiting a covid test or lying about being exposed.

remember, if the kids is flagged, they are not allowed back in the school for two weeks.  what are parents to do, they can't just take off two weeks?  I'd bet there is a lot flying under the radar.

also, how can they prove the kids got something at the school and not community spread?  Here in GA, there are funny things afoot.
 
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