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(Al Jazeera)   Protestors gather in the thousands as police fortify the Bastille in Paris. Difficulty: Not a repeat   (aljazeera.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Police, Police brutality, Racism, Police officer, police officers' faces, police officers, police force, President Emmanuel Macron's law  
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1835 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Nov 2020 at 9:30 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-11-29 4:39:16 PM  
I am liking these French folks. I hope they bring Madame Guillotine out of retirement.
 
2020-11-29 5:11:51 PM  
France: It is now illegal to publish identifying photos/video of police. French people: Okay, but what if - and hear us out - what if they're on fire?
 
2020-11-29 5:59:09 PM  
Bastille Day
Youtube a3t6iHhYksc


Okay, I'm digging out my old 70s cassette of Caress of Steel....

/Wash the salt into the earth
 
2020-11-29 6:03:53 PM  
And American police complain people say mean things about them.
 
2020-11-29 8:38:21 PM  
"There were tensions in Paris as a car, newspaper kiosk and brasserie were set on fire"

Did that poor woman survive?
 
2020-11-29 9:35:41 PM  
Tous les flics sont mauvais
 
2020-11-29 9:35:50 PM  
Time for the US to shine too

i.guim.co.ukView Full Size
 
2020-11-29 9:36:55 PM  
What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?
 
2020-11-29 9:38:40 PM  

Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?


"... You *can't* look bad"

I'm very bad at mobile error-checking lately.
 
2020-11-29 9:41:51 PM  
Original's gone. Part of where it stood's a big-ass street now, I think, and the rest of it's other, newer buildings.
 
2020-11-29 9:42:19 PM  

Jiggatron69: Time for the US to shine too

[i.guim.co.uk image 500x300]


Liberté Egalité Gritté
 
2020-11-29 9:43:53 PM  

Snapper Carr: Tous les flics sont mauvais


Astu senti mon... fromage?
 
2020-11-29 9:44:07 PM  
This is all because the France tried to make it illegal to photograph and identify their police. Meanwhile, over here in the United States, we have people that are earnestly like "yOu CaN't BuRn dOwN tHe WeNdY'S jUsT bEcUaSe CoPs kIlL pEopLe!"

The french are cooler than us.
 
2020-11-29 9:44:23 PM  

Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?


The law forbids the publication of images that allow the identification of a law enforcement officer "with the intent to cause them harm, physically or mentally."People apparently have a problem with this, I assume because both the nazis and the "punch nazis" crowd thinks that political violence should be a solution to life's problems. And so, 'doxxing' with the intent of riling up murderous assholes to attack state employees is becoming commonplace.
 
2020-11-29 9:45:08 PM  

Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?


Cops never like being filmed doing the jobs taxpayer pay them to do.
 
2020-11-29 9:45:49 PM  

fallingcow: Original's gone. Part of where it stood's a big-ass street now, I think, and the rest of it's other, newer buildings.


Yep. Nice little cafe across the way though. Expensive, but good rose and cheese IIRC.
 
2020-11-29 9:45:51 PM  

MattytheMouse: This is all because the France tried to make it illegal to photograph and identify their police. Meanwhile, over here in the United States, we have people that are earnestly like "yOu CaN't BuRn dOwN tHe WeNdY'S jUsT bEcUaSe CoPs kIlL pEopLe!"

The french are cooler than us.


La vie humaine, c'est plus importante que la propriété.
 
2020-11-29 9:47:08 PM  
I love that nearly anything statement made plainly in French automatically looks like an aphorism of deep wisdom.
 
2020-11-29 9:47:23 PM  

Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?


According to the article, which I know, this is Fark and nobody got time to read it, this is the reasoning:

The government says the provision is intended to protect officers from doxxing and online abuse, but critics say it is further evidence of the Macron administration's slide to the right.

Pretty weak justification, but there it is. Critics are probably right about this, but I've been too preoccupied with the sh*tshow of US politics so I don't know much about what's going on in France these days.
 
2020-11-29 9:47:29 PM  

Shaggy_C: fallingcow: Original's gone. Part of where it stood's a big-ass street now, I think, and the rest of it's other, newer buildings.

Yep. Nice little cafe across the way though. Expensive, but good rose and cheese IIRC.


Looked it up..."Café Français". That's the spot. Apparently only a block from the pictures of the burning buildings FTFA. I hope the cheese is okay.
 
2020-11-29 9:48:18 PM  
Baise la police.

/Thought they hung out at Place de la Pigalle.
 
2020-11-29 9:49:25 PM  

mamoru: Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?

According to the article, which I know, this is Fark and nobody got time to read it, this is the reasoning:

The government says the provision is intended to protect officers from doxxing and online abuse, but critics say it is further evidence of the Macron administration's slide to the right.

Pretty weak justification, but there it is. Critics are probably right about this, but I've been too preoccupied with the sh*tshow of US politics so I don't know much about what's going on in France these days.


And it wouldn't have really covered this case, as it was captured by CCTV cameras in the guys studio.

French police caught on CCTV beating black music producer in his Paris studio
Youtube kJkAfVLAcx4
 
2020-11-29 9:49:54 PM  

Shaggy_C: Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?

The law forbids the publication of images that allow the identification of a law enforcement officer "with the intent to cause them harm, physically or mentally."People apparently have a problem with this, I assume because both the nazis and the "punch nazis" crowd thinks that political violence should be a solution to life's problems. And so, 'doxxing' with the intent of riling up murderous assholes to attack state employees is becoming commonplace.


Or because the French police are getting a reputation for being violent thugs who will absolutely abuse this law.

France didn't go full-Trump/BoJo with Le Pen, but Macron and co. are still jackoffs trying to push France towards authoritarianism, and the people are getting rightfully pissed off.
 
2020-11-29 9:50:08 PM  
But I'm le tired
 
2020-11-29 9:51:03 PM  
"Place de la Bastille" and the quartier . . . La Bastille n'existe plus.

They razed the fortress/prison shortly after the revolution.
 
2020-11-29 9:52:08 PM  

HempHead: And it wouldn't have really covered this case, as it was captured by CCTV cameras in the guys studio.


Granted, I don't know the specific wording of the law, but as summarized in the article, it sounds ripe for abuse against people who photograph or film police brutality and/or other malfeasance, or at least would have a chilling effect on people trying to record such abuses due to fear of prosecution. 

I guess the French people really aren't down with that sort of thing.
 
2020-11-29 9:53:40 PM  
Basically, fark cops. Anybody whose priority is to protect cops from abuse have their priorities farking backwards.
 
2020-11-29 9:54:36 PM  

fallingcow: Original's gone. Part of where it stood's a big-ass street now, I think, and the rest of it's other, newer buildings.


Pardon my pointing this out after you ... I should have refreshed. Quel dommage.
 
2020-11-29 9:55:08 PM  

Shaggy_C: Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?

The law forbids the publication of images that allow the identification of a law enforcement officer "with the intent to cause them harm, physically or mentally."People apparently have a problem with this, I assume because both the nazis and the "punch nazis" crowd thinks that political violence should be a solution to life's problems. And so, 'doxxing' with the intent of riling up murderous assholes to attack state employees is becoming commonplace.


Maybe they should extend the law to everyone? Seems like maybe having a law against incitements to violence/death threats/harassment might be a thing France should have for everyone, and not just cops.
 
2020-11-29 10:00:13 PM  

MattytheMouse: This is all because the France tried to make it illegal to photograph and identify their police. Meanwhile, over here in the United States, we have people that are earnestly like "yOu CaN't BuRn dOwN tHe WeNdY'S jUsT bEcUaSe CoPs kIlL pEopLe!"

The french are cooler than us.


I don't know if anyone else has noticed that protests have been fewer and farther between as of late.  I'm just speculating, but it may have something to do with the lack of extrajudicial executions caught on camera.

Most normal people would make the connection between lack of abuse of power and lack of protests.  Psychotics would connect it to the lack of filming and conclude that if we stop filming police abuse, demonstrations would cease.
 
2020-11-29 10:10:43 PM  

skin rash_oklahoma: MattytheMouse: This is all because the France tried to make it illegal to photograph and identify their police. Meanwhile, over here in the United States, we have people that are earnestly like "yOu CaN't BuRn dOwN tHe WeNdY'S jUsT bEcUaSe CoPs kIlL pEopLe!"

The french are cooler than us.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed that protests have been fewer and farther between as of late.  I'm just speculating, but it may have something to do with the lack of extrajudicial executions caught on camera.

Most normal people would make the connection between lack of abuse of power and lack of protests.  Psychotics would connect it to the lack of filming and conclude that if we stop filming police abuse, demonstrations would cease.


I'm guessing it has more to do with the weather, the pandemic getting way worse, and the election taking hold as the most pressing issue.
 
2020-11-29 10:14:18 PM  
historicmysteries.comView Full Size

Nobody wants him
He just stares at the world
Planning his vengeance
That he will soon unfurl
 
2020-11-29 10:16:10 PM  
static01.nyt.comView Full Size

static01.nyt.comView Full Size
 
2020-11-29 10:26:07 PM  
Crazy Frenchys

/they are too
 
2020-11-29 10:34:45 PM  
When aren't the french rioting?
 
2020-11-29 10:44:24 PM  

mamoru: Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?

According to the article, which I know, this is Fark and nobody got time to read it, this is the reasoning:

The government says the provision is intended to protect officers from doxxing and online abuse, but critics say it is further evidence of the Macron administration's slide to the right.

Pretty weak justification, but there it is. Critics are probably right about this, but I've been too preoccupied with the sh*tshow of US politics so I don't know much about what's going on in France these days.


Thanks, I skimmed it but didn't see the half sentence they devoted to the salient issue I guess!
 
2020-11-29 11:00:20 PM  

Shaggy_C: Shaggy_C: fallingcow: Original's gone. Part of where it stood's a big-ass street now, I think, and the rest of it's other, newer buildings.

Yep. Nice little cafe across the way though. Expensive, but good rose and cheese IIRC.

Looked it up..."Café Français". That's the spot. Apparently only a block from the pictures of the burning buildings FTFA. I hope the cheese is okay.


Toasted cheese is delish
 
2020-11-29 11:07:25 PM  

thealgorerhythm: [historicmysteries.com image 615x409]
Nobody wants him
He just stares at the world
Planning his vengeance
That he will soon unfurl


Fark user imageView Full Size
I am Tony Iommi and I approve of this message.
 
2020-11-29 11:30:06 PM  

fallingcow: Original's gone. Part of where it stood's a big-ass street now, I think, and the rest of it's other, newer buildings.


yeah, there's basically a big monument situated in the middle of the square. I spent a week in an apartment right off the main road. There's an awesome market right there (I believe on Thursdays and Sundays), a short walk to Le Marais in one direction, Gare de Lyon in the other, not to mention some good cafes and restaurants already there and easy Metro access. Wasn't a bad location to be in order to regularly avoid the high traffic tourist spots for the most part.
 
2020-11-30 1:18:29 AM  

mamoru: Thenixon: What's the justification for this 'no filming cops' law? I get that the police want it because they think you look bad if nobody can look. But are the elected politicians offering anything better than that as the reason? Ooga booga Muslims, at least?

According to the article, which I know, this is Fark and nobody got time to read it, this is the reasoning:

The government says the provision is intended to protect officers from doxxing and online abuse, but critics say it is further evidence of the Macron administration's slide to the right.

Pretty weak justification, but there it is. Critics are probably right about this, but I've been too preoccupied with the sh*tshow of US politics so I don't know much about what's going on in France these days.


This is basically the Boiling Frog Theory. The slide to the right has been so relentless since Macron has been elected, that people are now saying "hey, if this keeps up, we are going to be a police state".

Some people are actually arguing that we are witnessing a Trumpisation of the presidency. Macron does not like being told no, and argues that he has a mandate and refuses to hear criticism. The main problems is that he replaced also the ministry of the interior with a populist that dismiss any criticism as the actions of the far-right, and that the only outside opinions he gets are from the police union.

There's also the problem of the Paris prefect of police, Lallement, who got its nickname of Mad Dog because of his brutality, a firm denial from the top of the government that police brutality even exist, internal affairs that only serve to cover up crimes from LEO, a  conception of secularism that veers right into whir supremacy.... And people are fed up.
 
2020-11-30 2:18:22 AM  

padraig: a  conception of secularism that veers right into whir supremacy.... .


I'd be interested to hear what link you make between the currently dominant strain of laïcité and white supremacy.
 
2020-11-30 3:54:10 AM  

Eutychus: padraig: a  conception of secularism that veers right into whir supremacy.... .

I'd be interested to hear what link you make between the currently dominant strain of laïcité and white supremacy.


Basically, any attempt by groups made POC to adress the problems faced by their communities, is bashed as "communautarism", which is seen as the evil counterpart to "universalism", the fact that we are all the same, and so nobody should be treated differently.

The problem is that the gatekeepers of universalism are all entrenched in a vision of France that's white and catholic. There are even some people, like Nicolas Bedos, that says he will never let POCs take the lead in talks about racism. All talk about institutionnal racism is considered as slanderous.

Basically, "laïcité" just mean "Conform, or else !"

This is kind of like the "marche des beurres" in the end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s, where Arabs made a long walk all around France to protest against institutional racism and police brutality. The movement was coopted by the newly elected Socialist president Mitterand, but just as a way to siphon votes for the Socialist Party, while covertly propping up the National Front to dilute the votes from the right.
Then an anti-racist movement "Touche pas à mon pote" was created, but it was actually an offshoot of the Socialist Party. The leaders of the "marche des beurres" were quietly set aside, while white artists and singers held musical festivals and TV specials about friendships between races. Suddenly, all talks about institutionnal racism and police brutality disappeared, and racism suddenly was shown only as a personal issue.
 
2020-11-30 4:07:15 AM  
Apparently, Defund the police is an idea whose time has come globally
 
2020-11-30 5:58:23 AM  

padraig: The problem is that the gatekeepers of universalism are all entrenched in a vision of France that's white and catholic. There are even some people, like Nicolas Bedos, that says he will never let POCs take the lead in talks about racism. All talk about institutionnal racism is considered as slanderous.


This is the first time I've heard the gatekeepers of the Republican ideal all having a vision of France that's white and catholic. Round where I live, ISTM that while those particular gatekeepers may be overwhelmingly white, they are far from catholic: they are usually the anticlerical strain of secularist.

Or are you saying that they are subconsciously catholic? That might be nearer the mark. (I've long thought that what passes for nonreligious laïcité is actually predicated on the catholic culture of the proponents' parents and grandparents.
 
2020-11-30 6:07:53 AM  

Eutychus: padraig: The problem is that the gatekeepers of universalism are all entrenched in a vision of France that's white and catholic. There are even some people, like Nicolas Bedos, that says he will never let POCs take the lead in talks about racism. All talk about institutionnal racism is considered as slanderous.

This is the first time I've heard the gatekeepers of the Republican ideal all having a vision of France that's white and catholic. Round where I live, ISTM that while those particular gatekeepers may be overwhelmingly white, they are far from catholic: they are usually the anticlerical strain of secularist.

Or are you saying that they are subconsciously catholic? That might be nearer the mark. (I've long thought that what passes for nonreligious laïcité is actually predicated on the catholic culture of the proponents' parents and grandparents.


Defenders of laïcité always portray the Muslims as the threat, but see nothing wrong with Catholics praying in protest against lockdown rules, or when far-right mayors like Menard install nativity scenes in mairies.

Any Muslim expression of faith is seen as a threat against secularism. Anything expression of Catholic faith is excused as just our culture. And this is this culture that's supposed to be embraced in this universalism.
 
2020-11-30 6:17:32 AM  

padraig: Eutychus: padraig: The problem is that the gatekeepers of universalism are all entrenched in a vision of France that's white and catholic. There are even some people, like Nicolas Bedos, that says he will never let POCs take the lead in talks about racism. All talk about institutionnal racism is considered as slanderous.

This is the first time I've heard the gatekeepers of the Republican ideal all having a vision of France that's white and catholic. Round where I live, ISTM that while those particular gatekeepers may be overwhelmingly white, they are far from catholic: they are usually the anticlerical strain of secularist.

Or are you saying that they are subconsciously catholic? That might be nearer the mark. (I've long thought that what passes for nonreligious laïcité is actually predicated on the catholic culture of the proponents' parents and grandparents.

Defenders of laïcité always portray the Muslims as the threat, but see nothing wrong with Catholics praying in protest against lockdown rules, or when far-right mayors like Menard install nativity scenes in mairies.

Any Muslim expression of faith is seen as a threat against secularism. Anything expression of Catholic faith is excused as just our culture. And this is this culture that's supposed to be embraced in this universalism.


I agree about the targeting of Muslims, but I disagree with the idea that Cathoicism is excused as "just our culture". The recent 30-person limit for places of worship was, to my mind, a clear swipe against the Catholics. The RC bishop where I live clearly sees laïcité as the enemy. I see a huge disconnect between Catholics' self-perception of their importance in French culture and their actual significance.
 
2020-11-30 7:21:37 AM  

Eutychus: padraig: Eutychus: padraig: The problem is that the gatekeepers of universalism are all entrenched in a vision of France that's white and catholic. There are even some people, like Nicolas Bedos, that says he will never let POCs take the lead in talks about racism. All talk about institutionnal racism is considered as slanderous.

This is the first time I've heard the gatekeepers of the Republican ideal all having a vision of France that's white and catholic. Round where I live, ISTM that while those particular gatekeepers may be overwhelmingly white, they are far from catholic: they are usually the anticlerical strain of secularist.

Or are you saying that they are subconsciously catholic? That might be nearer the mark. (I've long thought that what passes for nonreligious laïcité is actually predicated on the catholic culture of the proponents' parents and grandparents.

Defenders of laïcité always portray the Muslims as the threat, but see nothing wrong with Catholics praying in protest against lockdown rules, or when far-right mayors like Menard install nativity scenes in mairies.

Any Muslim expression of faith is seen as a threat against secularism. Anything expression of Catholic faith is excused as just our culture. And this is this culture that's supposed to be embraced in this universalism.

I agree about the targeting of Muslims, but I disagree with the idea that Cathoicism is excused as "just our culture". The recent 30-person limit for places of worship was, to my mind, a clear swipe against the Catholics. The RC bishop where I live clearly sees laïcité as the enemy. I see a huge disconnect between Catholics' self-perception of their importance in French culture and their actual significance.


That was not a swipe against the Catholics. Everybody was treated just the same. But just imagine what would have been the outcry had muslims prayed in the streets to protest the same measures in mosques.
 
2020-11-30 7:41:25 AM  
I think it was a swipe against the Catholics, because they have by far and away the largest worship spaces. And they certainly perceived it as such, because it was them who ran to the Council of State. If the Council of State rules for 1 person per 8 square metres in places of worship in Wednesday, then it will be discriminating in favour of the Catholics. If not, not so much.

(Of course there would have been a much bigger outcry if Muslims had protested in the street as the Catholics did. But most Muslims are not inherently opposed to laïcité in the way Catholics are. Neither are Protestants).
 
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