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(Guardian)   'Sistine Chapel of the ancients' rock art discovered in remote Amazon forest in Colombia. Artwork created 12.500ish years ago stretches across 8 miles of cliff faces   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Amazon Rainforest, Colombia, Amazon River, Ella Al-Shamahi, Jos Iriarte, paintings of animals, documentary's presenter, Amazon  
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1180 clicks; posted to STEM » on 29 Nov 2020 at 6:47 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-29 2:38:00 PM  
How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
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2020-11-29 2:39:28 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
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Trial and error?  I mean ancient people around the world had a lot of time on their hands.
 
2020-11-29 2:41:22 PM  
Outstanding.
 
2020-11-29 2:42:11 PM  
That artwork is more than twice as old as the earth!
 
2020-11-29 2:42:15 PM  

nekom: bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?
[Fark user image 620x372]

Trial and error?  I mean ancient people around the world had a lot of time on their hands.


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Seriously, that is amazing and fascinating and beautiful.
 
2020-11-29 2:43:36 PM  
Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.
 
2020-11-29 2:45:25 PM  
Paging that archeological farkette
 
2020-11-29 2:51:57 PM  
I'm both terrified and fascinated by the Amazon. It's scary, even Teddy Roosevelt could barely conquer it. And if he had trouble, someone like me wouldn't last a day.
 
2020-11-29 2:58:24 PM  

Combustion: I'm both terrified and fascinated by the Amazon. It's scary, even Teddy Roosevelt could barely conquer it. And if he had trouble, someone like me wouldn't last a day.


There are ruins there, that we've already found, of cultures that came and went centuries ago.  Imagine what other secrets are hiding deep in the jungle.  If we could stop burning it down that'd be great.
 
2020-11-29 3:00:54 PM  
It's amazing.
 
2020-11-29 3:08:38 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
[Fark user image 620x372]


I suspect it was permanently covered in jungle.

Now, you can probably hear the paint starting to crack and peel under the new direct UV exposure.
 
2020-11-29 3:08:57 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
[Fark user image 620x372]


I suspect iron oxides were involved.

/and perhaps psychedelic toads
 
2020-11-29 3:12:25 PM  
"...Burma Shave!!!"

"Oh, that was a good one."
 
2020-11-29 3:14:32 PM  
12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?
 
2020-11-29 3:21:30 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

I'd Indiana her Jones.
 
2020-11-29 3:29:57 PM  
There's a lot to be suspicious of here. No way that survived in such a pristine condition for 12,000 years in that area. And it was dated by the inclusion of mastodons? It doesn't really look like any other art from the region either.

If it's real, holy crap.

/IANAA
 
2020-11-29 3:50:03 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
[Fark user image 620x372]


i.pinimg.comView Full Size


/Thanks, Obama!
 
2020-11-29 3:56:31 PM  
Many of the painting are very high up, some so high they can only be reached by drones

The Ancients had drones!!!!
 
2020-11-29 4:03:57 PM  

nekom: bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
[Fark user image 620x372]

Trial and error?  I mean ancient people around the world had a lot of time on their hands.


Blood from Human Sacrifices. It's a binder.
 
2020-11-29 4:19:50 PM  

vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.


Some of the paintings are of towers, some with people bungee-jumping.

The region wasn't rain forest back then--it was more savannah-like. Hence the horses and mammoths.
 
2020-11-29 4:21:49 PM  

gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?


Some places--like Europe--use decimals instead of commas, and commas instead of decimals.
 
2020-11-29 4:22:45 PM  

Sid Vicious' Corpse: [Fark user image image 617x414]
I'd Indiana her Jones.


She'd probably Lara your Croft first.
 
2020-11-29 4:22:54 PM  

SoupGuru: There's a lot to be suspicious of here. No way that survived in such a pristine condition for 12,000 years in that area. And it was dated by the inclusion of mastodons? It doesn't really look like any other art from the region either.

If it's real, holy crap.

/IANAA


Did you read TFA? It says the region used to be savannah-like.
 
2020-11-29 4:26:21 PM  

a particular individual: gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?

Some places--like Europe--use decimals instead of commas, and commas instead of decimals.


Yeah, I'm from one of those countries, and I always forget to change it when switching to English.
/Not subby though
 
2020-11-29 4:31:04 PM  

SoupGuru: There's a lot to be suspicious of here. No way that survived in such a pristine condition for 12,000 years in that area. And it was dated by the inclusion of mastodons? It doesn't really look like any other art from the region either.

If it's real, holy crap.

/IANAA


Did some googling, it could be that the humid rainforest actually created similar conditions as found in caves. 

"However, cave paintings are uniquely able to defend against the ravages of time. To begin with, the paints and dyes used by these early artists were organic in nature, such as iron or hematite, which would combine to form a pigment called ochre once they began to oxidize. This pigment could be mixed with charcoal or burned bones, and thickened into a paint with animal fat or other natural oils. These pigments were not available everywhere, and likely had to be sought out, and were likely considered valuable. Due to the discovery of pigments and paints near burial and religious sites, it is suggested that such paintings were often ceremonial or sacred in nature. The pigments themselves, such as iron oxide and carbon black (charcoal), are highly resistant to fading, unless exposed to fire or chemicals.
In some cases of limestone caves, there is also a process known as rainwater seeping, in which water seeping through the cracks of the rock will form a bicarbonate layer or coating, which effectively glazes the paintings on the wall, allowing them to retain their surprisingly vivid hues thousands of years later"
 
2020-11-29 4:36:00 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a's only 12.5 years old. cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
[Fark user image 620x372]


Look at subby's headline, it's only 12.5 years old. Well, 12.5-ish...
 
2020-11-29 4:59:04 PM  

gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?


English way. They also do maths when they go to uni.
 
2020-11-29 5:07:33 PM  

a particular individual: gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?

Some places--like Europe--use decimals instead of commas, and commas instead of decimals.


OK. Looks odd.
 
2020-11-29 5:51:38 PM  

bughunter: bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?
[Fark user image 620x372]

I suspect iron oxides were involved.

/and perhaps psychedelic toads


Ochre is ferric oxide suspended in clay/earth.

Does its colour fade on exposure to sunlight?
 
2020-11-29 6:35:42 PM  

gopher321: a particular individual: gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?

Some places--like Europe--use decimals instead of commas, and commas instead of decimals.

OK. Looks odd.


I agree. You'd think math would be universal. Look at Indian notation. You'll see numbers like 100,00.
 
2020-11-29 6:48:23 PM  

a particular individual: gopher321: a particular individual: gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?

Some places--like Europe--use decimals instead of commas, and commas instead of decimals.

OK. Looks odd.

I agree. You'd think math would be universal.


It's just a difference between the character used for marking decimals or grouping. I had the notion that using the comma as the decimal marker might actually be the more common usage, worldwide, but this map pulled from wiki suggests India and China follow the same notation as the UK/US, so full stop for decimals, commas for grouping is probably the most common usage.

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


Look at Indian notation. You'll see numbers like 100,00.

That's down to lakh and crore, isn't it? Lakh being 100 000, crore being 10 000 000, but just printed a bit odd?

/I've decided as of this post to just use spaces for grouping, since it's simpler and less confusing in general.
 
2020-11-29 6:54:46 PM  
And it will, immediately, be destroyed by some corporation that paid off someone to let them strip-mine the area.
 
2020-11-29 6:58:02 PM  

vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.


Ah yes, the secrets of The Rope and The Ladder lost to history.

/ If only we had a wheel-like thing.
 
2020-11-29 7:02:36 PM  

vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.


Do you refuse to read the article? It addresses this issue.
 
2020-11-29 7:06:08 PM  

ClavellBCMI: And it will, immediately, be destroyed by some corporation that paid off someone to let them strip-mine the area.


There are several reasons it wasn't discovered till last year.

It's remote
It's FARC territory
It's infested with crocodiles and poisonous snakes

Anyway, it'll likely be declared a world heritage site.
 
2020-11-29 7:10:34 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff in a rainforest exposed the elements for 10.000 years?  
[Fark user image image 620x372]


So, like statues in ancient rome, what we're seeing is faded be time and elements of exposure.

I'm not sure if they can tell in those cliff walls, but it could very well be that red isn't the only color they used, but one of the only ones that sticks around enough to be recognizable millennia later.
 
2020-11-29 7:40:22 PM  
Damn teenagers and their graffiti!
 
2020-11-29 7:43:42 PM  
The discovery was made by a British-Colombian team,

That is, a team made up of Brits and Colombians, not a British Columbian team that may have come from Vancouver.
 
2020-11-29 7:47:04 PM  

Ishkur: The discovery was made by a British-Colombian team,

That is, a team made up of Brits and Colombians, not a British Columbian team that may have come from Vancouver.


I don't know, Ella Al-Shamahi  sounds Canuck to me.
 
2020-11-29 8:31:11 PM  

Sid Vicious' Corpse: [Fark user image 617x414]
I'd Indiana her Jones.


What's with them always wearing dark green?  If they ever got lost, they would be impossible to find.
 
2020-11-29 9:12:08 PM  

nekom: Combustion: I'm both terrified and fascinated by the Amazon. It's scary, even Teddy Roosevelt could barely conquer it. And if he had trouble, someone like me wouldn't last a day.

There are ruins there, that we've already found, of cultures that came and went centuries ago.  Imagine what other secrets are hiding deep in the jungle.  If we could stop burning it down that'd be great.


Exactly!! It's at once great...and totally terrifying. It's easily the most dangerous place on the planet (screw Afghanistan) and it's so...wild. Dark. Crazy. Have you seen "Cannibal Holocaust?!?!?"
 
2020-11-29 10:55:20 PM  

a particular individual: vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.

Do you refuse to read the article? It addresses this issue.


I refused to read the article, which is how I could quote it?
 
2020-11-29 11:01:42 PM  

bikkurikun: How did those people make paint that did not fade at all while on a cliff


It's not paint, it's mineral. For most of it they were using an ochre rock to draw directly on the lighter-colored stone of the cliff. The hand-prints and some of the other drawing could have been done by powdering the ochre rock and mixing it with some sort of binder. Which would create a sort of mineral "paint."
 
2020-11-29 11:04:22 PM  

vygramul: a particular individual: vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.

Do you refuse to read the article? It addresses this issue.

I refused to read the article, which is how I could quote it?


Point taken, but the article mentions the illustrations of wooden towers that were likely used to get up the side of the cliff.
 
2020-11-29 11:27:08 PM  

a particular individual: vygramul: a particular individual: vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.

Do you refuse to read the article? It addresses this issue.

I refused to read the article, which is how I could quote it?

Point taken, but the article mentions the illustrations of wooden towers that were likely used to get up the side of the cliff.


They were probably trying to keep their art away from critics

media1.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-11-29 11:52:31 PM  
Iriarte suspects that there are many more paintings to be found: "We're just scratching the surface."

That's very poorly worded.
 
2020-11-29 11:53:03 PM  

a particular individual: vygramul: a particular individual: vygramul: Some of the paintings are so high they can only be viewed with drones.

They either had drones thousands of years ago, or they had some secret "other" way of reaching them.

Do you refuse to read the article? It addresses this issue.

I refused to read the article, which is how I could quote it?

Point taken, but the article mentions the illustrations of wooden towers that were likely used to get up the side of the cliff.


Or, like, rappelling? I'm guessing they'd figured out "on highest parts maybe we could start from up and go down" a/o 12.5k yrs ago.

/or 12,5k if you're into that kind of silly notation
 
2020-11-29 11:58:34 PM  

SoupGuru: There's a lot to be suspicious of here. No way that survived in such a pristine condition for 12,000 years in that area. And it was dated by the inclusion of mastodons? It doesn't really look like any other art from the region either.

If it's real, holy crap.

/IANAA


Supposedly Proboscidea like gomphotheres survived to within the last thousand years or so down there before they were exterminated.

Will be interesting to see if they can get a better date on that site.

/it's all mammal bearing overburden.
 
2020-11-30 12:23:18 AM  

bikkurikun: a particular individual: gopher321: 12.500ish years ago

Extraneous zeroes? Or couldn't find the comma?

Some places--like Europe--use decimals instead of commas, and commas instead of decimals.

Yeah, I'm from one of those countries, and I always forget to change it when switching to English.
/Not subby though


I'm subby, and I'm a Unitedstatesian. I just have fat fingers and many careless moments.
 
2020-11-30 1:59:37 AM  

SoupGuru: There's a lot to be suspicious of here. No way that survived in such a pristine condition for 12,000 years in that area. And it was dated by the inclusion of mastodons? It doesn't really look like any other art from the region either.

If it's real, holy crap.

/IANAA


That's hardly pristine condition.
But it almost certainly was somewhere that wasn't getting actively rained on, and somebody else suggested it was iron oxide - lots of ancient cave paintings tend to be red ochre, which is a kind of clay containing ferric oxide.  It may wash off, but it's already rust so it's not going to oxidize.

And yeah, it's astounding, and especially cool because it's an area that's wet enough that usually not much except stone or large earthworks survive more than a few centuries.
 
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