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(Gizmodo) Video Gritty superheroes: Are we for them or are we against them?   (io9.gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Video, Superhero, Batman, best video essayists, Superman, DC Comics, Batman: The Animated Series, Patrick H. Willems, Teen Titans  
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1113 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 29 Nov 2020 at 2:34 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-29 11:03:29 AM  
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2020-11-29 11:37:00 AM  
I have no problem with dark and gritty superheroes if that is how they were created.  Where I take offense is turning a superhero dark and gritty because that's what the content creators think that is what the audience wants.
 
2020-11-29 11:38:08 AM  
At this point, a gritty superhero is just the police but with even fewer restraints.

Someone posted a twitter thread a while back about how Batman should be fighting against corrupt police officers rather than going after the criminals that the police have allowed to flourish.
 
2020-11-29 12:03:02 PM  
Bruce Wayne is just another billionaire who votes for tax cuts that defund the police and afterschool biology clubs that could have prevented Poison Ivy, The Penguin and Harley Quinn from forming a gang.
 
2020-11-29 12:10:42 PM  
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2020-11-29 12:14:09 PM  
Shut up and watch the movie.
 
2020-11-29 12:34:26 PM  
For them. Very much For.
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2020-11-29 12:43:39 PM  
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2020-11-29 12:57:37 PM  
I like Deadpool.
 
2020-11-29 1:00:08 PM  
Perfect superheroes with no character faults are bland and boring. It's why Batman is always more interesting than Superman.

/ Ben Affleck perhaps excluded
 
2020-11-29 1:08:09 PM  
Alan Moore and Frank Miller ruined Superhero comics because shiatty writers took all the wrong lessons from Watchmen and DKR.

All the shiatty writer (like a Liefeld or a Johns) saw was the ultraviolence and swearing and tits and thought "THAT'S IT! I SHALL BE THE NEXT ALAN MOORE!"

So, we've had 30 years of stories with a 13-year-old's interpretation of what's "mature"... guns and tits and the word "fark".

Grim and gritty? Fark that shiat.
 
2020-11-29 1:16:08 PM  
Fun.  I like fun superhero movies.
 
2020-11-29 2:02:00 PM  
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2020-11-29 2:08:18 PM  
most superheroes are boring as shiat, they need something to make them worth paying attention to
 
2020-11-29 2:11:12 PM  

Purple_Urkle: Bruce Wayne is just another billionaire who votes for tax cuts that defund the police and afterschool biology clubs that could have prevented Poison Ivy, The Penguin and Harley Quinn from forming a gang.


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2020-11-29 2:36:20 PM  
Yeah we do:

img.particlenews.comView Full Size


Rawr.
 
2020-11-29 2:58:32 PM  
I think The Boys (not the comic version) is the only gritty superhero series I've enjoyed. Other than that? I mostly pay attention to the lighthearted movies and series. Stuff like the Harley Quinn cartoon. There's enough dark shiat in the news nowadays. I really wish DC would stop trying to one-up itself in a constant "We must make batman edgier" and just give us something nice like BTAS again. And also, stop hiring Jared Leto.
 
2020-11-29 3:03:43 PM  

Purple_Urkle: Bruce Wayne is just another billionaire who votes for tax cuts that defund the police and afterschool biology clubs that could have prevented Poison Ivy, The Penguin and Harley Quinn from forming a gang.


whoa whoa whoa hey

you forgot iron man who is just the same exact character
 
2020-11-29 3:03:52 PM  
The real super heroes are the cops and firemen who protect us every day.
 
2020-11-29 3:12:51 PM  
I submitted the Williams video on the 24th, but YouTube videos don't get greenlit as often as articles about a YouTube video.

Also, this was in my queue today, and seems related.

Why the Cynical Superhero Isn't That Interesting
Youtube vuUsnbaOclc
 
2020-11-29 3:18:02 PM  

skyotter: I submitted the Williams video on the 24th, but YouTube videos don't get greenlit as often as articles about a YouTube video.

Also, this was in my queue today, and seems related.

[YouTube video: Why the Cynical Superhero Isn't That Interesting]


In the original pre-gritty days of Fark, the mods would correct the link from the summary article to the original article or source. Then Fark did pay links that changed the submitter's link to a pay site. Fark stopped that practice but the link standards never recovered.
 
2020-11-29 3:23:01 PM  
fark those supe coonts with a rusty rebar.
 
2020-11-29 3:23:08 PM  
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2020-11-29 3:26:03 PM  
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2020-11-29 3:38:07 PM  
img.fireden.netView Full Size


Or go immensely dark and funny.
 
2020-11-29 3:54:50 PM  
I like the optimism of Superman and Captain America. I know it's not a realistic view of the world, but it cheers me up sometimes and I need that once in a while.

I also like the dark, brutal worlds of Batman, Daredevil, and Hellblazer. I always have, and I'm sure I always will.

As with any market, the pendulum swings. We went through a heavy dark and gritty phase, and that got old. We went bright and colorful, and even that got tiresome. I'm sure it'll continue to go back and forth for generations to come.
 
2020-11-29 4:07:05 PM  

Hell Poodle: stop hiring Jared Leto


THIS
 
2020-11-29 4:08:35 PM  
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2020-11-29 4:09:29 PM  
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2020-11-29 4:13:39 PM  
Does Happy count as a superhero story?
 
2020-11-29 4:26:42 PM  
I'm not opposed to dark and gritty done well.  I'm opposed to it done poorly or done as a gimmick.  Superman is not dark and gritty no matter how many shiatty movies Zack Synder makes.
 
2020-11-29 4:54:35 PM  

hammer85: [img.fireden.net image 500x318] [View Full Size image _x_]

Or go immensely dark and funny.


The pearls bouncing out of the alley are a nice touch
 
2020-11-29 4:58:24 PM  

Cafe Threads: I like Deadpool.


The thing is, Deadpool isn't gritty in the same was as they've made Batman gritty. Deadpool is hilarious and he cracks jokes though all the shiat that life throws at him. No brooding, just action and laughs. Even his attempted suicide was played for laughs.
 
2020-11-29 4:58:27 PM  

Snapper Carr: I'm not opposed to dark and gritty done well.  I'm opposed to it done poorly or done as a gimmick.  Superman is not dark and gritty no matter how many shiatty movies Zack Synder makes.


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2020-11-29 5:04:10 PM  

BizarreMan: I have no problem with dark and gritty superheroes if that is how they were created.  Where I take offense is turning a superhero dark and gritty because that's what the content creators think that is what the audience wants.


^^THIS^^
 
2020-11-29 5:19:34 PM  

KingBiefWhistle: hammer85: [img.fireden.net image 500x318] [View Full Size image _x_]

Or go immensely dark and funny.

The pearls bouncing out of the alley are a nice touch


They put the pearl necklace on her before pushing her into the alley too.

They also kill Aquaman by dropping their soda six pack wrapper into the ocean and it wraps around baby Aquaman's neck as the bubbles form on the surface.
 
2020-11-29 5:25:30 PM  
Skip most of that and just watch the few minutes starting about 23 minutes in when he talks about "Miracleman". Worth it since few people have read it but many have watched the movies it inspired.
 
2020-11-29 5:30:04 PM  
The problem with gritty superheroes is that superheroes, as a concept, are silly. You're juggling a lot of conflicting tones, and odds are, it isn't going to work. Even when it does work, the public reaction may not be the read you were hoping for, because you're always going to have to deal with the pile of people that can't understand deconstruction and satire (see: anyone who thinks Rorschach is a "cool" character or a charming anti-hero, and not just an extension of the sick society pictured in the Watchmen).

Even when you get a really good treatment with grit, like Logan, you have to get there by lifting the structure and tone from Westerns, which were also rather silly, by and large.

(Nolan's Batman movies are also incredibly overrated; they're not bad, they're just, y'know, there- well, wait, the third one is bad. Objectively bad. But as a trilogy, it's like, okay on average. The okayest adaptation of Batman that felt revelatory because the last thing we got was Batman and Robin)
 
2020-11-29 5:34:25 PM  
As long as that GRITTY HERO is Squirrel Girl, played by Anna Kendrick, I am for gritty super heroes.
 
2020-11-29 6:01:55 PM  

Jesus McSordid: Cafe Threads: I like Deadpool.

The thing is, Deadpool isn't gritty in the same was as they've made Batman gritty. Deadpool is hilarious and he cracks jokes though all the shiat that life throws at him. No brooding, just action and laughs. Even his attempted suicide was played for laughs.


yah, deadpool isn't gritty. it's a satire to make you realize how ridiculous the concept of superheroes are.

Joker is gritty. and depressing as hell.
 
2020-11-29 6:02:42 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Alan Moore and Frank Miller ruined Superhero comics because shiatty writers took all the wrong lessons from Watchmen and DKR.

All the shiatty writer (like a Liefeld or a Johns) saw was the ultraviolence and swearing and tits and thought "THAT'S IT! I SHALL BE THE NEXT ALAN MOORE!"

So, we've had 30 years of stories with a 13-year-old's interpretation of what's "mature"... guns and tits and the word "fark".

Grim and gritty? Fark that shiat.


There's a lot in what you say.

But, Watchmen was a terrific tv show. I liked the Punisher too. Wolverine as well.

There is a way to do gritty well. But, Jesus, some of these are just...bad.
 
2020-11-29 6:03:03 PM  

skyotter: Fun.  I like fun superhero movies.


Yeah, all this grim and gritty being "realistic" forget that what would really be realistic is just funding the police and other institutions rather than relying on vigilantes or superpowered goons. It would be very boring watching heroes with not actually anything to do since presumably planes won't be constantly falling out of the sky and trains derailing all the time.

But superpowered people would not be allowed to run amok.
 
2020-11-29 6:47:59 PM  

snowshovel: Jesus McSordid: Cafe Threads: I like Deadpool.

The thing is, Deadpool isn't gritty in the same was as they've made Batman gritty. Deadpool is hilarious and he cracks jokes though all the shiat that life throws at him. No brooding, just action and laughs. Even his attempted suicide was played for laughs.

yah, deadpool isn't gritty. it's a satire to make you realize how ridiculous the concept of superheroes are.

Joker is gritty. and depressing as hell.


Remember the 90's?

Spawn? Homeless revenant who must watch but can never meet his wife and daughter?

Or The Maxx?  Wasn't he just an abused kid's fantasy?

JFC, what was everyone's friggin damage back then?
 
2020-11-29 6:57:58 PM  

Cafe Threads: I like Deadpool.


Deadpool is proof that superheroes can be both gritty and camp as a row of pink tents.
 
2020-11-29 7:03:41 PM  

leeksfromchichis: snowshovel: Jesus McSordid: Cafe Threads: I like Deadpool.

The thing is, Deadpool isn't gritty in the same was as they've made Batman gritty. Deadpool is hilarious and he cracks jokes though all the shiat that life throws at him. No brooding, just action and laughs. Even his attempted suicide was played for laughs.

yah, deadpool isn't gritty. it's a satire to make you realize how ridiculous the concept of superheroes are.

Joker is gritty. and depressing as hell.

Remember the 90's?

Spawn? Homeless revenant who must watch but can never meet his wife and daughter?

Or The Maxx?  Wasn't he just an abused kid's fantasy?

JFC, what was everyone's friggin damage back then?


Gen-X was realising how they and every subsequent generation is completely farked.
 
2020-11-29 7:07:17 PM  
"Dark and gritty fits Batman, but not Superman or Green Lantern. Not saying the latter two can't have dark moments "

static.comicvine.comView Full Size
 
2020-11-29 7:10:06 PM  

leeksfromchichis: snowshovel: Jesus McSordid: Cafe Threads: I like Deadpool.

The thing is, Deadpool isn't gritty in the same was as they've made Batman gritty. Deadpool is hilarious and he cracks jokes though all the shiat that life throws at him. No brooding, just action and laughs. Even his attempted suicide was played for laughs.

yah, deadpool isn't gritty. it's a satire to make you realize how ridiculous the concept of superheroes are.

Joker is gritty. and depressing as hell.

Remember the 90's?

Spawn? Homeless revenant who must watch but can never meet his wife and daughter?

Or The Maxx?  Wasn't he just an abused kid's fantasy?

JFC, what was everyone's friggin damage back then?


Dude, I loved The Maxx. The animated series on MTV was amazing.

And to answer your question, there seemed to be a prevailing lean towards making mental illness trendy back then. All those metal and alternative bands singing about losing their minds (Korn, Green Day, etc), movies about people who were persecuted for thinking so differently or being abnormal yet had deep wisdom to share due to their unique perspective (Powder, Nell). It was all about that fantasy of being different,of standing out and often above others, coupled with the somehow appealing angst of dealing with heavy troubles because "no one understands me, maaaan!"

I admit to falling into that trap myself back then. It had its appeal, for a time. I look back on it and cringe.
 
2020-11-29 7:58:11 PM  
We now know EVERYTHING we need to know about superheroes, gritty or not.  No more superhero movies are necessary, thank you.
 
2020-11-29 7:58:37 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: "Dark and gritty fits Batman, but not Superman or Green Lantern. Not saying the latter two can't have dark moments "

[static.comicvine.com image 640x480]


Justice League: Gods & Monsters | Digital Trailer | Warner Bros. Entertainment
Youtube yxL1Iw73azg
 
2020-11-29 8:46:54 PM  
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