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(The Scottish Sun)   Angry tradesman goes to town on two townhouses with hammer after 'not being paid' for his building work   (thescottishsun.co.uk) divider line
    More: Facepalm, The Sun, News of the World, Newspaper, The Times, News Corporation, News International, Last year Daniel Neagu, Rupert Murdoch  
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4000 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2020 at 11:23 AM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2020-11-26 11:57:20 AM  
18 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


on the other hand, we have a handyman who will do projects for us every couple of years--kitchen remodel, building a deck, etc. he comes over and we talk about the project, he gives his input and suggestions, give us an idea of what materials and where he might get them (as much as possible from places like habitat for humanity's "re-store"). we agree on a "job price," nothing hourly (which is good, because we often will get deep into conversation unrelated to the project, lol). we pay him for material daily as he buys it.

sometimes we don't agree to anything. last year we wanted a simple cabinet for a bathroom. we just said that we trusted him and to go for it. when i came home from work, he was just finishing up. "what do we owe, joe?" "i dunno-$100? i found all the wood in your garage, so i didn't have to buy anything, and i was only here for a couple of hours"

i don't know how he treats other clients, but i'm happy with our relationship. if he treats everyone the same as us, i don't know how he stays in business.

and he does *fantastic* work.
 
2020-11-26 11:42:06 AM  
14 votes:
Should have taken a rotohammer to the foundations. Perpetrators of wage theft sould be crucified upside-down and waterboarded as a public urinal until dead.

Change.
My farking.
Mind.
 
2020-11-26 12:51:34 PM  
11 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


When I was an electrician, my boss - a Master Electrician - used to pull permits for the entire electrical service for the construction. So all the subcontractors were using his power. Ohh the fun we had, when the owners would try and get shiatty about the costs. We delayed EVERYTHING on site, until they realized that it was going to take them a lot more money to get another ME to pull a permit and take over the work, not that many of them and they tend to stick together. Rich assholes that want to nickle and dime you to death. It still makes me laugh, and I have been out of that for 15 years. You seem to be one of them.....fark your work.
 
2020-11-26 9:53:17 AM  
10 votes:
My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.
 
2020-11-26 11:54:24 AM  
9 votes:
Worked in construction years ago, we tore out unpaid work on multiple occasions.

That's how you do.
 
2020-11-26 3:50:45 PM  
8 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


I don't take any work if the customer wants me to use his materials or supplier. I have arrangements with my own suppliers and if I charge a bit extra for the materials it is because I have to go and get them but again I have my own suppliers so I get a better level of service and quite often a better price (minimum 30% right off list). If I have to go to Bob's Hardware because my customer wants me to buy everything there that means I have to stand in line and wait. I then have to wait to be loaded up. If there is an issue with the materials I again have to wait or jump through a pile of hoops. As a contractor I get priority service over the public and if there's an issue with the parts or materials I can call my rep and they will rush me over a replacement. But hey Mr. Bigshot customer is super worried about having to pay too much so I'll just drive over to Bob's Hardware and stand in line while the 16 year old kid working the cash tries to figure out how to do a return. I've also had issues with the customer's equipment not actually being the right equipment. They've handed me stuff that isn't even legal to use in Canada that they found for cheap online or that just isn't compatible with the other stuff they want installed. If you hire me for a job you need to trust that I at least have some clue what I'm doing plus just a little trust in general that I'm not going to rip you off. If you can't do that I don't want the work.

I'm also going to take issue with not being paid until you agree the job is complete. If I complete the job as per the scope of work the job is done. I've had too many customers that decide when the bill comes due that they really aren't quite happy with the price or they want some changes done before they pay me. Nope. If it's not in the initial scope of work it doesn't get done and I still want my money.
 
2020-11-26 12:25:32 PM  
8 votes:
CSB: When I worked construction ~30 years ago we had a siding contractor do something similar. He installed horizontal siding on two homes but did not leave enough overlap between the pieces. The manufacturer of the product called for a 6" overlap, but he left 2" at most, and in a few spots literally did a butt-joint with caulking. We weren't prepared to pay him until he corrected everything at his expense, which he refused to do, so one day he showed up and started ripping the siding off.

In the end he lost and had to pay to remove the damaged siding from both homes as well as clean-up and other costs, and we simply hired another contractor who could follow simple instructions and install the stuff correctly.

/The excuse tendered for the errors was that the manufacturer's instructions were in metric and he "only worked in imperial". A stupid excuse flatly rejected by the courts.
 
2020-11-26 1:32:13 PM  
6 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


This is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. With this kind of attitude, the only people that would be willing to work for you are the ones that need this level of supervision. You need to protect yourself, especially on the larger projects, but when you act like you are doing them a favor by giving them work and you could do it all yourself if your time wasn't so important for other things, the good people will go elsewhere.
 
2020-11-26 12:40:33 PM  
6 votes:

nullandvoid744: Toxophil: Should have taken a rotohammer to the foundations. Perpetrators of wage theft sould be crucified upside-down and waterboarded as a public urinal until dead.

Change.
My farking.
Mind.

I mean, you could just take them to court. Has the added benefit that you won't be criminally charged for doing it.


With. What. Money?
 
2020-11-26 11:43:04 AM  
6 votes:
Too bad this guy wasn't hired to work (& then not paid)  on Trump's golf complex in Scotland
 
2020-11-26 11:37:42 AM  
6 votes:
I don't typically click on "The Sun" so I'm just going to pretend that "Angry Tradesman" is a Fark handle, "go to town on" means have sex with, "hammer" is Angry Tradesman's buddy's nickname and "building work" is aroma therapy.
 
2020-11-26 11:36:09 AM  
6 votes:
Oh, I didn't know Trump was still in the housing business.
 
2020-11-26 8:42:03 AM  
6 votes:
I'm having new windows fitted in my house right this moment. I suppose I'd better pay them or they'll come back and take the windows out. It's too cold this time of year to sleep with no windows.
 
2020-11-26 6:26:44 PM  
5 votes:

starsrift: I dunno if you're joking or not, but I'll assume not and just ask - have you ever tried not hiring the lowest bidder or the lowest competitor for that title, and instead gone mid-tier or upscale? I dunno, maybe you live in a place where shiatty contractors are endemic, but you're certainly not going to find a good one with these rules unless its a desperate yet earnest kid.


I just, literally today, got my windows replaced and I used a contractor who is the son of a neighbour. He gave me a price and I agreed it, Didn't even bother getting any other quotes, I thought it was a fair price so I agreed it.
He installed three windows today and he's done a great job. They're in, they work great, the finish is immaculate, and all I did was keep him supplied with coffee. He's got more to do tomorrow. I paid half up front and will pay the other half when he's finished.
Maybe I could have got it a couple of hundred pounds cheaper if I'd got loads of quotes, but I'm happy.

/And here window replacement is one of the areas where there are a lot of high pressure sales tactics. The sky high price then the salesman "phones his boss and gets him to agree a deal, but only if I sign the deal today" type thing. A friend got a quote a couple of years ago and they wanted more for one window than I paid to do my entire house.
 
2020-11-26 12:16:37 PM  
5 votes:
No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.
 
2020-11-26 11:51:59 AM  
5 votes:
Why is "not being paid" in quotes? Does The Sun think lower class people work for free?

/not that it justifies what he did, but come on
 
2020-11-26 4:10:31 PM  
4 votes:

RTOGUY: Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.

I don't take any work if the customer wants me to use his materials or supplier. I have arrangements with my own suppliers and if I charge a bit extra for the materials it is because I have to go and get them but again I have my own suppliers so I get a better level of service and quite often a better price (minimum 30% right off list). If I have to go to Bob's Hardware because my customer wants me to buy everything there that means I have to stand in line and wait. I then have to wait to be loaded up. If there is an issue with the materials I again have to wait or jump through a pile of hoops. As a contractor I get priority service over the public and if there's an issue with the parts or materials I can call my rep and they will rush me over a replacement. But hey Mr. Bigshot customer is super worried about having to pay too much so I'll just drive over to Bob's Hardware and stand in line while the 16 year old kid working the cash tries to figure out how to do a return. I've also had issues with the customer's equipment not actually being the right equipment. They've handed me stuff that isn't even legal to use in Canada that they found for cheap online or that just isn't compatible with the other stuff they want installed. If you ...


My landlady just contracted out the furnace replacement in my rental cabin herself... and it went like you described.  She bought the furnace unit, had it delivered, and she hired a guy to install it.  When the thing was installed and wouldn't light... it was everyone else's problem.  The big name hardware store didn't want to support the furnace because it could have been an installation error, and it wasn't their installer. the installer claimed there was no installation error. the propane company charged a fee every time they came out to turn unlock/lock the propane tank.  The installer told me to call the manufacturer and ask for new parts.  I called the manufacturer, they wanted info about the pressure readings, and how the converter was installed, information I didn't have.  The installer didn't want to have to wait on hold for the manufacturer and whined a whole lot.  No one wanted to be responsible.  But, hey, my landlady saved $100 initially.
 
2020-11-26 12:33:06 PM  
4 votes:

Madman drummers bummers: Oh, I didn't know Trump was still in the housing business.


Hurr durr Trump lol funneh.

Jesus, get a grip.  Not everything involves Trump.
 
2020-11-26 11:42:10 AM  
4 votes:
Well that article kind of went off the rails. I wanted to know if the guy was arrested. What happened? And instead of telling us, the article went off telling us about a totally different guy who went crazy last year. For the first guy the Sun is just like "Yeah, we don't know who those people were, when it took place, or where it even took place (maybe Essex?) but here's a similar story. We're good right?"
 
2020-11-26 3:18:16 PM  
3 votes:

El_Dan: Why is "not being paid" in quotes?


Because it shows they are reporting a claim, not making it themselves.

If they said that "he smashed the house after not being paid" and he had in fact been paid, they'd be wide open to a libel suit from whoever was supposed to pay him. Reporting that "he smashed the house after 'not being paid'" gives them a "we only printed what he told us" defence.
 
2020-11-26 1:59:27 PM  
3 votes:

Ker_Thwap: Strategy doesn't work because people don't use it, aren't aware that it exists.


... I can see that, and I can see your point.  But I still want to ask (if you know, that is) if you file a lien, in as closed an environment as you make it sound, are you winning a fight but losing the war?  If this is a person's livelihood, is it better to just sigh and take it, because "that's just the way things are", or try  to file and win the full amount?  Do you bust your ass for reduced -but at least consistent- pay, or do you get one payday and then you're a champion with an empty stomach and a lot of bills?

From where I'm standing, (at the moment), the three big options are "Take it", "fight it and lose in the long run", or "nothing else to lose, so fark it."

Are there any kinds of protections?
 
2020-11-26 1:32:08 PM  
3 votes:
Mechanic's liens don't mean much until the owner wants to sell the house, which could be decades later. In my state, liens are considered superior, but only in terms of timing; if there's already a mortgage, the mortgagee is ahead in line. First in time, first in right.

CSB: Old coot who lives down the street from me hired some work, then decided to stiff the contractor. Contractor slaps lien on the property. Owner said, "good luck with that, I'm 80 and will die before you can make a claim. Go after my kids when they sell the house."

Some people are just dicks.
/CSB
 
2020-11-26 1:04:27 PM  
3 votes:

Ker_Thwap: ... or maybe file a mechanics lien, like I first noted. The homeowner will freak out and put pressure on the contractor for you. You don't have to go straight to a tantrum that will possibly land you in jail. Stop trying to put dumb words in my mouth.


The way you wrote that post, you made it sound like that doesn't work.  Because the first thing you said is "File a lien", with no details after that, then went into much more detail about how "a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs 'just enough' to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits."

Sounds like they wouldn't have a reputation for doing that for very long if the lien strategy worked.  Can a subcontractor keep working other jobs while they're in court?  Is it a free filing?  Do they need a lawyer?  Is the lawyer free?  Would they get hired after?  They get their 7k for that job, but then nobody hires them again.

I didn't put dumb words in your mouth.  They seem to have fallen out on their own.
 
2020-11-26 12:50:41 PM  
3 votes:

Ker_Thwap: No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.


File all ya want.  It's no guarantee you get your work done or money back.

Here in the US, a neighbor contacted another neighbor to do about $10k of work to his cabin.  The guy did maybe 3k of work, and bought 5k in materials (the actual numbers escape me)and essentially stopped.  Neighbor said "gimme back $2500 and let's just part ways.

Worker neighbor went psyyyyyycho.  All sorts of harassment, stalking, and intimidation.

Good neighbor took him to court, bad neighbor ended up with a $9k judgement...and disappeared a week later. Poof.  Gone.

Good neighbor is still out a bunch of money and had to pay more to get the work done.

Been a good 10 years since that happened, bad neighbor is still missing.

/And good riddance
//He lit my woods on fire a little
///Don't drink and pass out while burning leaves.  Then the grass.  Then two neighbor's woods
 
2020-11-26 12:41:23 PM  
3 votes:

asmodeus224: Worked in construction years ago, we tore out unpaid work on multiple occasions.

That's how you do.


I did consultant work coding a long time ago and built in neutering if I didn't get paid.  That "feature" was always a line item on the contract, too.

After the third time I didn't get paid and had to pay a lawyer to tell my customer, "fark off, you signed the contract" I stopped consulting as a side gig.

Now I do woodworking (sorta) as a side gig.  Using CNC (among other things) I can turn a $6 piece of wood into anywhere from $30 to $150, all from the comfort of my own home.  Out of a couple hundred projects I have had exactly 2 people not pay and in both cases I sold the work to someone else and still made a little bit of money.

/USMC EGA's with a name and rank have paid for all of my tools and then some.
//Licensed by USMC, btw
 
2020-11-26 5:44:03 PM  
2 votes:
Thread turned out the way I expected. I have a contractor story too. A guy did some crappy work at my house and I repeatedly asked him to correct it. He already had the money, but had told me he guaranteed the work.

The only thing he guaranteed was that he wasn't going to correct it or refund any money.

So I burned his house and vehicles to the ground.
 
2020-11-26 4:45:13 PM  
2 votes:

Ker_Thwap: My landlady just contracted out the furnace replacement in my rental cabin herself... and it went like you described.  She bought the furnace unit, had it delivered, and she hired a guy to install it.  When the thing was installed and wouldn't light... it was everyone else's problem.  The big name hardware store didn't want to support the furnace because it could have been an installation error, and it wasn't their installer. the installer claimed there was no installation error. the propane company charged a fee every time they came out to turn unlock/lock the propane tank.  The installer told me to call the manufacturer and ask for new parts.  I called the manufacturer, they wanted info about the pressure readings, and how the converter was installed, information I didn't have.  The installer didn't want to have to wait on hold for the manufacturer and whined a whole lot.  No one wanted to be responsible.  But, hey, my landlady saved $100 initially.


Good luck getting the installer to come out when it goes down some Saturday night at 2am. The big name furnace brands are very picky about who installed them when it comes to warranty coverage and tech support. If you aren't a dealer you get the worst support imaginable I once spent 2 hours on hold with Lennox because they were busy and I don't sell Lennox so I can just go fark myself.
 
2020-11-26 3:18:38 PM  
2 votes:

Carter Pewterschmidt: I'm having new windows fitted in my house right this moment. I suppose I'd better pay them or they'll come back and take the windows out. It's too cold this time of year to sleep with no windows.


My state has much harder mechanics liens. It's a title that makes people think it's for car work, but it's an old act for contractors doing work on houses.

Basically, if you don't pay they can go to court and a judge will force the sale of your house to settle the debt. It's not one of those liens that sits there for years waiting until the property is voluntarily sold to collect money. It's enforceable to where a judge can say "Pay them or your house will be sold in 60 days to settle the debt."
 
2020-11-26 2:59:53 PM  
2 votes:

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So now he's not going to ever get paid and have a couple of charges to pay for as well.

Does the UK not have mechanics liens?


English here - never heard of them.

Don't mean they don't exist, but they're not common. Got a hassle with a customer not paying, you take them to small claims court. Costs you a couple hundred quid, there's no other guy's costs bullshiat to worry about, and the case is heard by a magistrate - who are some of the most cynical and sarcastic people a nation of proud sarcastics can muster.
 
2020-11-26 1:37:51 PM  
2 votes:

NotThatGuyAgain: Ker_Thwap: No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

File all ya want.  It's no guarantee you get your work done or money back.

Here in the US, a neighbor contacted another neighbor to do about $10k of work to his cabin.  The guy did maybe 3k of work, and bought 5k in materials (the actual numbers escape me)and essentially stopped.  Neighbor said "gimme back $2500 and let's just part ways.

Worker neighbor went psyyyyyycho.  All sorts of harassment, stalking, and intimidation.

Good neighbor took him to court, bad neighbor ended up with a $9k judgement...and disappeared a week later. Poof.  Gone.

Good neighbor is still out a bunch of money and had to pay more to get the work done.

Been a good 10 years since that happened, bad neighbor is still missing.

/And good riddance
//He lit my woods on fire a little
///Don't drink and pass out while burning leaves.  Then the grass.  Then two neighbor's woods


Judgments are often difficult to collect.  Even the lien is no guarantee you'll live long enough to collect the money.  It just means that when the house is sold, they have to distribute funds to the lien holders before disbursing funds to the seller.
 
2020-11-26 1:12:42 PM  
2 votes:

Ker_Thwap: Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Was with a company constructing a small commercial building.  Payments stopped near the end.  Electricians then started removing all the light fixtures, plumbers all the sinks and toilets, drywall workers all the doors, etc.  The GC told the owner "well, these guys aren't being paid.  They need to recover their costs somehow." Payment came by the end of the day.
 
2020-11-26 12:30:29 PM  
2 votes:

Ker_Thwap: Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000. You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments. Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.


In other words, "take it like a slave and be happy for what we deign to give you"?

Enough times of that and I'd probably take my chances with the smashing too.
 
2020-11-26 11:49:22 AM  
2 votes:

Walker: Well that article kind of went off the rails. I wanted to know if the guy was arrested. What happened? And instead of telling us, the article went off telling us about a totally different guy who went crazy last year. For the first guy the Sun is just like "Yeah, we don't know who those people were, when it took place, or where it even took place (maybe Essex?) but here's a similar story. We're good right?"


First version of the story wouldn't remotely meet their word count minimum for this writer who didn't want to research any more facts.
 
2020-11-26 11:40:32 AM  
2 votes:
I'll bet it was an accounting screw up and his pay was delayed by maybe a few days. I've seen a few construction workers go crazy over stuff like that, meanwhile everyone else employed by the company shrugs their shoulders and barely notices the late pay.
 
2020-11-26 11:27:21 AM  
2 votes:
"Angry Tradesman" is the name of my Rage Against the Machine/Men at Work polka band.
 
2020-11-27 4:40:03 AM  
1 vote:
Tradesman here. It's all about the signature. I cannot be stiffed to effect. If you're not happy, you sue me. I never chase, nor have been chased.
 
2020-11-26 6:29:41 PM  
1 vote:

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So now he's not going to ever get paid and have a couple of charges to pay for as well.

Does the UK not have mechanics liens?


No. Not a thing. You'd have to go to court. And even then "lien" just isn't a thing here. Bailiff's are, after a proper court order, but they have strict rules they have to follow.
 
2020-11-26 6:06:08 PM  
1 vote:

EBN-OZN: Mechanic's liens don't mean much until the owner wants to sell the house, which could be decades later. In my state, liens are considered superior, but only in terms of timing; if there's already a mortgage, the mortgagee is ahead in line. First in time, first in right.


My state is much better about this. If a contractor does improvements to the house that increase the house in value, the increase in value is tied to the mechanic's lien regardless of other liens. You could have a mortgage for more than the total value of the property at sale, and if the contractor's work increased the value of the property by $5,000 that $5,000 goes in priority to the contractor with the mechanic's lien.

My state also allows a contractor to force the sale of a property. No waiting years for someone to decide to sell. It's a judge ordering the sale of the property unless the lien is paid.
 
2020-11-26 4:53:54 PM  
1 vote:

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


I dunno if you're joking or not, but I'll assume not and just ask - have you ever tried not hiring the lowest bidder or the lowest competitor for that title, and instead gone mid-tier or upscale? I dunno, maybe you live in a place where shiatty contractors are endemic, but you're certainly not going to find a good one with these rules unless its a desperate yet earnest kid.
 
2020-11-26 4:19:53 PM  
1 vote:

Tyrosine: CSB: When I worked construction ~30 years ago we had a siding contractor do something similar. He installed horizontal siding on two homes but did not leave enough overlap between the pieces. The manufacturer of the product called for a 6" overlap, but he left 2" at most, and in a few spots literally did a butt-joint with caulking. We weren't prepared to pay him until he corrected everything at his expense, which he refused to do, so one day he showed up and started ripping the siding off.

In the end he lost and had to pay to remove the damaged siding from both homes as well as clean-up and other costs, and we simply hired another contractor who could follow simple instructions and install the stuff correctly.

/The excuse tendered for the errors was that the manufacturer's instructions were in metric and he "only worked in imperial". A stupid excuse flatly rejected by the courts.


You must Canadian if you use that metric stuff.
 
2020-11-26 2:26:41 PM  
1 vote:
My customers are mainly large companies who are repeat clients, so I just pester my point of contact until he or she ends up begging their accounting department to at long last square up with me.

/ I want my two dollars
 
2020-11-26 1:02:28 PM  
1 vote:

The Green Intern: Ker_Thwap: Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000. You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments. Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

In other words, "take it like a slave and be happy for what we deign to give you"?

Enough times of that and I'd probably take my chances with the smashing too.


Violence and destruction are always the answer. Usually stands up in court as well.
 
2020-11-26 12:50:26 PM  
1 vote:
Mama, Get the Hammer (A Fly's on the Baby's Head)

Mama Get The Hammer (Live)
Youtube d3P51NhnXhc
 
2020-11-26 12:38:34 PM  
1 vote:

The Green Intern: Ker_Thwap: Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000. You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments. Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

In other words, "take it like a slave and be happy for what we deign to give you"?

Enough times of that and I'd probably take my chances with the smashing too.


... or maybe file a mechanics lien, like I first noted.  The homeowner will freak out and put pressure on the contractor for you.  You don't have to go straight to a tantrum that will possibly land you in jail.  Stop trying to put dumb words in my mouth.
 
2020-11-26 12:35:44 PM  
1 vote:

Toxophil: Should have taken a rotohammer to the foundations. Perpetrators of wage theft sould be crucified upside-down and waterboarded as a public urinal until dead.

Change.
My farking.
Mind.


I mean, you could just take them to court. Has the added benefit that you won't be criminally charged for doing it.
 
2020-11-26 12:11:53 PM  
1 vote:

Walker: Well that article kind of went off the rails. I wanted to know if the guy was arrested. What happened? And instead of telling us, the article went off telling us about a totally different guy who went crazy last year. For the first guy the Sun is just like "Yeah, we don't know who those people were, when it took place, or where it even took place (maybe Essex?) but here's a similar story. We're good right?"


That's why I never click on tabloid articles. NEVER.
 
2020-11-26 11:43:56 AM  
1 vote:
Ween I Got to put the Hammer Down
Youtube VKFp9IPzu9E
 
2020-11-26 11:41:47 AM  
1 vote:
Not as severe, but I guess there was a installer who didn't get paid for the furnace that he put in. Homeowner calls company I work for, heating doesn't work. Get there and I see draft inducer motor assembly was gone. Call my boss, says to stay out of this, homeowner/landlord going to have to solve problem with installer.
 
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