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(The Scottish Sun)   Angry tradesman goes to town on two townhouses with hammer after 'not being paid' for his building work   (thescottishsun.co.uk) divider line
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3994 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2020 at 11:23 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-26 2:59:53 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So now he's not going to ever get paid and have a couple of charges to pay for as well.

Does the UK not have mechanics liens?


English here - never heard of them.

Don't mean they don't exist, but they're not common. Got a hassle with a customer not paying, you take them to small claims court. Costs you a couple hundred quid, there's no other guy's costs bullshiat to worry about, and the case is heard by a magistrate - who are some of the most cynical and sarcastic people a nation of proud sarcastics can muster.
 
2020-11-26 3:18:16 PM  

El_Dan: Why is "not being paid" in quotes?


Because it shows they are reporting a claim, not making it themselves.

If they said that "he smashed the house after not being paid" and he had in fact been paid, they'd be wide open to a libel suit from whoever was supposed to pay him. Reporting that "he smashed the house after 'not being paid'" gives them a "we only printed what he told us" defence.
 
2020-11-26 3:18:38 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: I'm having new windows fitted in my house right this moment. I suppose I'd better pay them or they'll come back and take the windows out. It's too cold this time of year to sleep with no windows.


My state has much harder mechanics liens. It's a title that makes people think it's for car work, but it's an old act for contractors doing work on houses.

Basically, if you don't pay they can go to court and a judge will force the sale of your house to settle the debt. It's not one of those liens that sits there for years waiting until the property is voluntarily sold to collect money. It's enforceable to where a judge can say "Pay them or your house will be sold in 60 days to settle the debt."
 
2020-11-26 3:50:45 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


I don't take any work if the customer wants me to use his materials or supplier. I have arrangements with my own suppliers and if I charge a bit extra for the materials it is because I have to go and get them but again I have my own suppliers so I get a better level of service and quite often a better price (minimum 30% right off list). If I have to go to Bob's Hardware because my customer wants me to buy everything there that means I have to stand in line and wait. I then have to wait to be loaded up. If there is an issue with the materials I again have to wait or jump through a pile of hoops. As a contractor I get priority service over the public and if there's an issue with the parts or materials I can call my rep and they will rush me over a replacement. But hey Mr. Bigshot customer is super worried about having to pay too much so I'll just drive over to Bob's Hardware and stand in line while the 16 year old kid working the cash tries to figure out how to do a return. I've also had issues with the customer's equipment not actually being the right equipment. They've handed me stuff that isn't even legal to use in Canada that they found for cheap online or that just isn't compatible with the other stuff they want installed. If you hire me for a job you need to trust that I at least have some clue what I'm doing plus just a little trust in general that I'm not going to rip you off. If you can't do that I don't want the work.

I'm also going to take issue with not being paid until you agree the job is complete. If I complete the job as per the scope of work the job is done. I've had too many customers that decide when the bill comes due that they really aren't quite happy with the price or they want some changes done before they pay me. Nope. If it's not in the initial scope of work it doesn't get done and I still want my money.
 
2020-11-26 3:57:57 PM  

WordsnCollision: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/VO39e5Uz​nu4]


I don't remember where I heard this but this song is supposedly written about tRumps dirtbag father who was a horrible landlord. It may have been here on Fark, so any of you kind Farkers with better memories than mine help a guy with CRS out?
 
2020-11-26 4:10:31 PM  

RTOGUY: Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.

I don't take any work if the customer wants me to use his materials or supplier. I have arrangements with my own suppliers and if I charge a bit extra for the materials it is because I have to go and get them but again I have my own suppliers so I get a better level of service and quite often a better price (minimum 30% right off list). If I have to go to Bob's Hardware because my customer wants me to buy everything there that means I have to stand in line and wait. I then have to wait to be loaded up. If there is an issue with the materials I again have to wait or jump through a pile of hoops. As a contractor I get priority service over the public and if there's an issue with the parts or materials I can call my rep and they will rush me over a replacement. But hey Mr. Bigshot customer is super worried about having to pay too much so I'll just drive over to Bob's Hardware and stand in line while the 16 year old kid working the cash tries to figure out how to do a return. I've also had issues with the customer's equipment not actually being the right equipment. They've handed me stuff that isn't even legal to use in Canada that they found for cheap online or that just isn't compatible with the other stuff they want installed. If you ...


My landlady just contracted out the furnace replacement in my rental cabin herself... and it went like you described.  She bought the furnace unit, had it delivered, and she hired a guy to install it.  When the thing was installed and wouldn't light... it was everyone else's problem.  The big name hardware store didn't want to support the furnace because it could have been an installation error, and it wasn't their installer. the installer claimed there was no installation error. the propane company charged a fee every time they came out to turn unlock/lock the propane tank.  The installer told me to call the manufacturer and ask for new parts.  I called the manufacturer, they wanted info about the pressure readings, and how the converter was installed, information I didn't have.  The installer didn't want to have to wait on hold for the manufacturer and whined a whole lot.  No one wanted to be responsible.  But, hey, my landlady saved $100 initially.
 
2020-11-26 4:19:53 PM  

Tyrosine: CSB: When I worked construction ~30 years ago we had a siding contractor do something similar. He installed horizontal siding on two homes but did not leave enough overlap between the pieces. The manufacturer of the product called for a 6" overlap, but he left 2" at most, and in a few spots literally did a butt-joint with caulking. We weren't prepared to pay him until he corrected everything at his expense, which he refused to do, so one day he showed up and started ripping the siding off.

In the end he lost and had to pay to remove the damaged siding from both homes as well as clean-up and other costs, and we simply hired another contractor who could follow simple instructions and install the stuff correctly.

/The excuse tendered for the errors was that the manufacturer's instructions were in metric and he "only worked in imperial". A stupid excuse flatly rejected by the courts.


You must Canadian if you use that metric stuff.
 
2020-11-26 4:45:13 PM  

Ker_Thwap: My landlady just contracted out the furnace replacement in my rental cabin herself... and it went like you described.  She bought the furnace unit, had it delivered, and she hired a guy to install it.  When the thing was installed and wouldn't light... it was everyone else's problem.  The big name hardware store didn't want to support the furnace because it could have been an installation error, and it wasn't their installer. the installer claimed there was no installation error. the propane company charged a fee every time they came out to turn unlock/lock the propane tank.  The installer told me to call the manufacturer and ask for new parts.  I called the manufacturer, they wanted info about the pressure readings, and how the converter was installed, information I didn't have.  The installer didn't want to have to wait on hold for the manufacturer and whined a whole lot.  No one wanted to be responsible.  But, hey, my landlady saved $100 initially.


Good luck getting the installer to come out when it goes down some Saturday night at 2am. The big name furnace brands are very picky about who installed them when it comes to warranty coverage and tech support. If you aren't a dealer you get the worst support imaginable I once spent 2 hours on hold with Lennox because they were busy and I don't sell Lennox so I can just go fark myself.
 
2020-11-26 4:53:54 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


I dunno if you're joking or not, but I'll assume not and just ask - have you ever tried not hiring the lowest bidder or the lowest competitor for that title, and instead gone mid-tier or upscale? I dunno, maybe you live in a place where shiatty contractors are endemic, but you're certainly not going to find a good one with these rules unless its a desperate yet earnest kid.
 
2020-11-26 5:44:03 PM  
Thread turned out the way I expected. I have a contractor story too. A guy did some crappy work at my house and I repeatedly asked him to correct it. He already had the money, but had told me he guaranteed the work.

The only thing he guaranteed was that he wasn't going to correct it or refund any money.

So I burned his house and vehicles to the ground.
 
2020-11-26 5:44:36 PM  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: My customers are mainly large companies who are repeat clients, so I just pester my point of contact until he or she ends up begging their accounting department to at long last square up with me.

/ I want my two dollars


I used to do that with our salesmen who would sell an account, then neglect to get me the paperwork I needed to file it with the state..  Email and voicemail EVERY GODDAM DAY until you get me what I need.  Somehow, I was "picking on them" because they didn't do their job.  F*cking Sales.
 
2020-11-26 6:06:08 PM  

EBN-OZN: Mechanic's liens don't mean much until the owner wants to sell the house, which could be decades later. In my state, liens are considered superior, but only in terms of timing; if there's already a mortgage, the mortgagee is ahead in line. First in time, first in right.


My state is much better about this. If a contractor does improvements to the house that increase the house in value, the increase in value is tied to the mechanic's lien regardless of other liens. You could have a mortgage for more than the total value of the property at sale, and if the contractor's work increased the value of the property by $5,000 that $5,000 goes in priority to the contractor with the mechanic's lien.

My state also allows a contractor to force the sale of a property. No waiting years for someone to decide to sell. It's a judge ordering the sale of the property unless the lien is paid.
 
2020-11-26 6:26:44 PM  

starsrift: I dunno if you're joking or not, but I'll assume not and just ask - have you ever tried not hiring the lowest bidder or the lowest competitor for that title, and instead gone mid-tier or upscale? I dunno, maybe you live in a place where shiatty contractors are endemic, but you're certainly not going to find a good one with these rules unless its a desperate yet earnest kid.


I just, literally today, got my windows replaced and I used a contractor who is the son of a neighbour. He gave me a price and I agreed it, Didn't even bother getting any other quotes, I thought it was a fair price so I agreed it.
He installed three windows today and he's done a great job. They're in, they work great, the finish is immaculate, and all I did was keep him supplied with coffee. He's got more to do tomorrow. I paid half up front and will pay the other half when he's finished.
Maybe I could have got it a couple of hundred pounds cheaper if I'd got loads of quotes, but I'm happy.

/And here window replacement is one of the areas where there are a lot of high pressure sales tactics. The sky high price then the salesman "phones his boss and gets him to agree a deal, but only if I sign the deal today" type thing. A friend got a quote a couple of years ago and they wanted more for one window than I paid to do my entire house.
 
2020-11-26 6:29:41 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So now he's not going to ever get paid and have a couple of charges to pay for as well.

Does the UK not have mechanics liens?


No. Not a thing. You'd have to go to court. And even then "lien" just isn't a thing here. Bailiff's are, after a proper court order, but they have strict rules they have to follow.
 
2020-11-27 4:40:03 AM  
Tradesman here. It's all about the signature. I cannot be stiffed to effect. If you're not happy, you sue me. I never chase, nor have been chased.
 
2020-11-27 8:41:27 AM  

RTOGUY: Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.

I don't take any work if the customer wants me to use his materials or supplier. I have arrangements with my own suppliers and if I charge a bit extra for the materials it is because I have to go and get them but again I have my own suppliers so I get a better level of service and quite often a better price (minimum 30% right off list). If I have to go to Bob's Hardware because my customer wants me to buy everything there that means I have to stand in line and wait. I then have to wait to be loaded up. If there is an issue with the materials I again have to wait or jump through a pile of hoops. As a contractor I get priority service over the public and if there's an issue with the parts or materials I can call my rep and they will rush me over a replacement. But hey Mr. Bigshot customer is super worried about having to pay too much so I'll just drive over to Bob's Hardware and stand in line while the 16 year old kid working the cash tries to figure out how to do a return. I've also had issues with the customer's equipment not actually being the right equipment. They've handed me stuff that isn't even legal to use in Canada that they found for cheap online or that just isn't compatible with the other stuff they want installed. If you ...


This is what we do as well as an HVAC company.  We use our own suppliers, and yes we do take a mark up.  Everyone does.  Do you think Walmart sells you stuff at cost?  LOL!  We wont install customer purchased parts unless they agree up front that it voids any and all warranty from us. If they want equipment warranty, they pay us first, then they have to go directly to the manufacturer to get it.

More than 50 years in business, we have only been stiffed about 5 times.
 
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