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(The Scottish Sun)   Angry tradesman goes to town on two townhouses with hammer after 'not being paid' for his building work   (thescottishsun.co.uk) divider line
    More: Facepalm, The Sun, News of the World, Newspaper, The Times, News Corporation, News International, Last year Daniel Neagu, Rupert Murdoch  
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3994 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2020 at 11:23 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-26 8:42:03 AM  
I'm having new windows fitted in my house right this moment. I suppose I'd better pay them or they'll come back and take the windows out. It's too cold this time of year to sleep with no windows.
 
2020-11-26 9:53:17 AM  
My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.
 
2020-11-26 11:27:21 AM  
"Angry Tradesman" is the name of my Rage Against the Machine/Men at Work polka band.
 
2020-11-26 11:27:49 AM  
If I Had a Hammer (Hammer Song)
Youtube VO39e5Uznu4
 
2020-11-26 11:36:09 AM  
Oh, I didn't know Trump was still in the housing business.
 
2020-11-26 11:36:13 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-26 11:37:42 AM  
I don't typically click on "The Sun" so I'm just going to pretend that "Angry Tradesman" is a Fark handle, "go to town on" means have sex with, "hammer" is Angry Tradesman's buddy's nickname and "building work" is aroma therapy.
 
2020-11-26 11:40:32 AM  
I'll bet it was an accounting screw up and his pay was delayed by maybe a few days. I've seen a few construction workers go crazy over stuff like that, meanwhile everyone else employed by the company shrugs their shoulders and barely notices the late pay.
 
2020-11-26 11:41:47 AM  
Not as severe, but I guess there was a installer who didn't get paid for the furnace that he put in. Homeowner calls company I work for, heating doesn't work. Get there and I see draft inducer motor assembly was gone. Call my boss, says to stay out of this, homeowner/landlord going to have to solve problem with installer.
 
2020-11-26 11:42:06 AM  
Should have taken a rotohammer to the foundations. Perpetrators of wage theft sould be crucified upside-down and waterboarded as a public urinal until dead.

Change.
My farking.
Mind.
 
2020-11-26 11:42:10 AM  
Well that article kind of went off the rails. I wanted to know if the guy was arrested. What happened? And instead of telling us, the article went off telling us about a totally different guy who went crazy last year. For the first guy the Sun is just like "Yeah, we don't know who those people were, when it took place, or where it even took place (maybe Essex?) but here's a similar story. We're good right?"
 
2020-11-26 11:43:04 AM  
Too bad this guy wasn't hired to work (& then not paid)  on Trump's golf complex in Scotland
 
2020-11-26 11:43:56 AM  
Ween I Got to put the Hammer Down
Youtube VKFp9IPzu9E
 
2020-11-26 11:45:31 AM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: I don't typically click on "The Sun" so I'm just going to pretend that "Angry Tradesman" is a Fark handle, "go to town on" means have sex with, "hammer" is Angry Tradesman's buddy's nickname and "building work" is aroma therapy.


Close.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-26 11:46:37 AM  
Was he tho thore that he couldn't pith?
 
2020-11-26 11:49:22 AM  

Walker: Well that article kind of went off the rails. I wanted to know if the guy was arrested. What happened? And instead of telling us, the article went off telling us about a totally different guy who went crazy last year. For the first guy the Sun is just like "Yeah, we don't know who those people were, when it took place, or where it even took place (maybe Essex?) but here's a similar story. We're good right?"


First version of the story wouldn't remotely meet their word count minimum for this writer who didn't want to research any more facts.
 
2020-11-26 11:51:59 AM  
Why is "not being paid" in quotes? Does The Sun think lower class people work for free?

/not that it justifies what he did, but come on
 
2020-11-26 11:54:24 AM  
Worked in construction years ago, we tore out unpaid work on multiple occasions.

That's how you do.
 
2020-11-26 11:54:46 AM  
Sign Of The Hammer
Youtube nP3HbSAuhEg
 
2020-11-26 11:57:20 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


on the other hand, we have a handyman who will do projects for us every couple of years--kitchen remodel, building a deck, etc. he comes over and we talk about the project, he gives his input and suggestions, give us an idea of what materials and where he might get them (as much as possible from places like habitat for humanity's "re-store"). we agree on a "job price," nothing hourly (which is good, because we often will get deep into conversation unrelated to the project, lol). we pay him for material daily as he buys it.

sometimes we don't agree to anything. last year we wanted a simple cabinet for a bathroom. we just said that we trusted him and to go for it. when i came home from work, he was just finishing up. "what do we owe, joe?" "i dunno-$100? i found all the wood in your garage, so i didn't have to buy anything, and i was only here for a couple of hours"

i don't know how he treats other clients, but i'm happy with our relationship. if he treats everyone the same as us, i don't know how he stays in business.

and he does *fantastic* work.
 
2020-11-26 12:11:53 PM  

Walker: Well that article kind of went off the rails. I wanted to know if the guy was arrested. What happened? And instead of telling us, the article went off telling us about a totally different guy who went crazy last year. For the first guy the Sun is just like "Yeah, we don't know who those people were, when it took place, or where it even took place (maybe Essex?) but here's a similar story. We're good right?"


That's why I never click on tabloid articles. NEVER.
 
2020-11-26 12:16:37 PM  
No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.
 
2020-11-26 12:25:32 PM  
CSB: When I worked construction ~30 years ago we had a siding contractor do something similar. He installed horizontal siding on two homes but did not leave enough overlap between the pieces. The manufacturer of the product called for a 6" overlap, but he left 2" at most, and in a few spots literally did a butt-joint with caulking. We weren't prepared to pay him until he corrected everything at his expense, which he refused to do, so one day he showed up and started ripping the siding off.

In the end he lost and had to pay to remove the damaged siding from both homes as well as clean-up and other costs, and we simply hired another contractor who could follow simple instructions and install the stuff correctly.

/The excuse tendered for the errors was that the manufacturer's instructions were in metric and he "only worked in imperial". A stupid excuse flatly rejected by the courts.
 
2020-11-26 12:29:50 PM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: I don't typically click on "The Sun" so I'm just going to pretend that "Angry Tradesman" is a Fark handle, "go to town on" means have sex with, "hammer" is Angry Tradesman's buddy's nickname and "building work" is aroma therapy.


Well, here's a hint, they don't call him "Angus, the Bridgebuilder."

But he DOES use the tradesman's entrance.
 
2020-11-26 12:30:29 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000. You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments. Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.


In other words, "take it like a slave and be happy for what we deign to give you"?

Enough times of that and I'd probably take my chances with the smashing too.
 
2020-11-26 12:33:06 PM  

Madman drummers bummers: Oh, I didn't know Trump was still in the housing business.


Hurr durr Trump lol funneh.

Jesus, get a grip.  Not everything involves Trump.
 
2020-11-26 12:35:44 PM  

Toxophil: Should have taken a rotohammer to the foundations. Perpetrators of wage theft sould be crucified upside-down and waterboarded as a public urinal until dead.

Change.
My farking.
Mind.


I mean, you could just take them to court. Has the added benefit that you won't be criminally charged for doing it.
 
2020-11-26 12:38:34 PM  

The Green Intern: Ker_Thwap: Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000. You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments. Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

In other words, "take it like a slave and be happy for what we deign to give you"?

Enough times of that and I'd probably take my chances with the smashing too.


... or maybe file a mechanics lien, like I first noted.  The homeowner will freak out and put pressure on the contractor for you.  You don't have to go straight to a tantrum that will possibly land you in jail.  Stop trying to put dumb words in my mouth.
 
2020-11-26 12:40:33 PM  

nullandvoid744: Toxophil: Should have taken a rotohammer to the foundations. Perpetrators of wage theft sould be crucified upside-down and waterboarded as a public urinal until dead.

Change.
My farking.
Mind.

I mean, you could just take them to court. Has the added benefit that you won't be criminally charged for doing it.


With. What. Money?
 
2020-11-26 12:41:23 PM  

asmodeus224: Worked in construction years ago, we tore out unpaid work on multiple occasions.

That's how you do.


I did consultant work coding a long time ago and built in neutering if I didn't get paid.  That "feature" was always a line item on the contract, too.

After the third time I didn't get paid and had to pay a lawyer to tell my customer, "fark off, you signed the contract" I stopped consulting as a side gig.

Now I do woodworking (sorta) as a side gig.  Using CNC (among other things) I can turn a $6 piece of wood into anywhere from $30 to $150, all from the comfort of my own home.  Out of a couple hundred projects I have had exactly 2 people not pay and in both cases I sold the work to someone else and still made a little bit of money.

/USMC EGA's with a name and rank have paid for all of my tools and then some.
//Licensed by USMC, btw
 
2020-11-26 12:50:26 PM  
Mama, Get the Hammer (A Fly's on the Baby's Head)

Mama Get The Hammer (Live)
Youtube d3P51NhnXhc
 
2020-11-26 12:50:41 PM  

Ker_Thwap: No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.


File all ya want.  It's no guarantee you get your work done or money back.

Here in the US, a neighbor contacted another neighbor to do about $10k of work to his cabin.  The guy did maybe 3k of work, and bought 5k in materials (the actual numbers escape me)and essentially stopped.  Neighbor said "gimme back $2500 and let's just part ways.

Worker neighbor went psyyyyyycho.  All sorts of harassment, stalking, and intimidation.

Good neighbor took him to court, bad neighbor ended up with a $9k judgement...and disappeared a week later. Poof.  Gone.

Good neighbor is still out a bunch of money and had to pay more to get the work done.

Been a good 10 years since that happened, bad neighbor is still missing.

/And good riddance
//He lit my woods on fire a little
///Don't drink and pass out while burning leaves.  Then the grass.  Then two neighbor's woods
 
2020-11-26 12:51:34 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


When I was an electrician, my boss - a Master Electrician - used to pull permits for the entire electrical service for the construction. So all the subcontractors were using his power. Ohh the fun we had, when the owners would try and get shiatty about the costs. We delayed EVERYTHING on site, until they realized that it was going to take them a lot more money to get another ME to pull a permit and take over the work, not that many of them and they tend to stick together. Rich assholes that want to nickle and dime you to death. It still makes me laugh, and I have been out of that for 15 years. You seem to be one of them.....fark your work.
 
2020-11-26 1:02:28 PM  

The Green Intern: Ker_Thwap: Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000. You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments. Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

In other words, "take it like a slave and be happy for what we deign to give you"?

Enough times of that and I'd probably take my chances with the smashing too.


Violence and destruction are always the answer. Usually stands up in court as well.
 
2020-11-26 1:04:27 PM  

Ker_Thwap: ... or maybe file a mechanics lien, like I first noted. The homeowner will freak out and put pressure on the contractor for you. You don't have to go straight to a tantrum that will possibly land you in jail. Stop trying to put dumb words in my mouth.


The way you wrote that post, you made it sound like that doesn't work.  Because the first thing you said is "File a lien", with no details after that, then went into much more detail about how "a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs 'just enough' to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits."

Sounds like they wouldn't have a reputation for doing that for very long if the lien strategy worked.  Can a subcontractor keep working other jobs while they're in court?  Is it a free filing?  Do they need a lawyer?  Is the lawyer free?  Would they get hired after?  They get their 7k for that job, but then nobody hires them again.

I didn't put dumb words in your mouth.  They seem to have fallen out on their own.
 
2020-11-26 1:07:40 PM  
Good for him.
I would've set the place on fire.
Yes, I am a maniac.
 
2020-11-26 1:07:49 PM  
Apparently this sort of thing is extremely popular in England with Contractors.

Don't know how well that "exquisitely thought out plan" would work in North America.
(Been a while since I watched the vid so maybe SFW, maybe not)
FULL VERSION Angry Digger Driver Destroys Travelodge
Youtube orHe7gCvkAo
 
2020-11-26 1:11:33 PM  
Although I must admit.   Crushing the white car with the house sized front end loader must of flet glorious to do.  (4:16)

When Customers Refuse To Pay Ultimate Compilation 2017
Youtube nE-aIwyeHxQ
 
2020-11-26 1:12:42 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Was with a company constructing a small commercial building.  Payments stopped near the end.  Electricians then started removing all the light fixtures, plumbers all the sinks and toilets, drywall workers all the doors, etc.  The GC told the owner "well, these guys aren't being paid.  They need to recover their costs somehow." Payment came by the end of the day.
 
2020-11-26 1:32:08 PM  
Mechanic's liens don't mean much until the owner wants to sell the house, which could be decades later. In my state, liens are considered superior, but only in terms of timing; if there's already a mortgage, the mortgagee is ahead in line. First in time, first in right.

CSB: Old coot who lives down the street from me hired some work, then decided to stiff the contractor. Contractor slaps lien on the property. Owner said, "good luck with that, I'm 80 and will die before you can make a claim. Go after my kids when they sell the house."

Some people are just dicks.
/CSB
 
2020-11-26 1:32:13 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: My standard for dealing with this kind of stuff:

1) All materials must be purchased from the hardware store I specify, using the account I have opened for this job. I will be notified of all purchases when they are made and that will be the only way I will compensate you for materials.
2) All work to be done will be itemized in the contract that will be signed by both parties before work is complete. No more, no less unless we both agree in writing.
3) (for heavy or long jobs) A milestone payment will be paid when I agree that half of the work has been completed.
4) The remaining money will be paid when I agree that the job is complete as per the contract.

If that's not the way you work, then you aren't going to work for me.


This is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. With this kind of attitude, the only people that would be willing to work for you are the ones that need this level of supervision. You need to protect yourself, especially on the larger projects, but when you act like you are doing them a favor by giving them work and you could do it all yourself if your time wasn't so important for other things, the good people will go elsewhere.
 
2020-11-26 1:37:51 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: Ker_Thwap: No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

File all ya want.  It's no guarantee you get your work done or money back.

Here in the US, a neighbor contacted another neighbor to do about $10k of work to his cabin.  The guy did maybe 3k of work, and bought 5k in materials (the actual numbers escape me)and essentially stopped.  Neighbor said "gimme back $2500 and let's just part ways.

Worker neighbor went psyyyyyycho.  All sorts of harassment, stalking, and intimidation.

Good neighbor took him to court, bad neighbor ended up with a $9k judgement...and disappeared a week later. Poof.  Gone.

Good neighbor is still out a bunch of money and had to pay more to get the work done.

Been a good 10 years since that happened, bad neighbor is still missing.

/And good riddance
//He lit my woods on fire a little
///Don't drink and pass out while burning leaves.  Then the grass.  Then two neighbor's woods


Judgments are often difficult to collect.  Even the lien is no guarantee you'll live long enough to collect the money.  It just means that when the house is sold, they have to distribute funds to the lien holders before disbursing funds to the seller.
 
2020-11-26 1:39:03 PM  

The Green Intern: Ker_Thwap: ... or maybe file a mechanics lien, like I first noted. The homeowner will freak out and put pressure on the contractor for you. You don't have to go straight to a tantrum that will possibly land you in jail. Stop trying to put dumb words in my mouth.

The way you wrote that post, you made it sound like that doesn't work.  Because the first thing you said is "File a lien", with no details after that, then went into much more detail about how "a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs 'just enough' to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits."

Sounds like they wouldn't have a reputation for doing that for very long if the lien strategy worked.  Can a subcontractor keep working other jobs while they're in court?  Is it a free filing?  Do they need a lawyer?  Is the lawyer free?  Would they get hired after?  They get their 7k for that job, but then nobody hires them again.

I didn't put dumb words in your mouth.  They seem to have fallen out on their own.


Strategy doesn't work because people don't use it, aren't aware that it exists.
 
2020-11-26 1:40:21 PM  

TotallyRealNotFake: Although I must admit.   Crushing the white car with the house sized front end loader must of flet glorious to do.  (4:16)

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/nE-aIwye​HxQ]


Wondering if there are any AC condensers being dragged down in this?
 
2020-11-26 1:59:27 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Strategy doesn't work because people don't use it, aren't aware that it exists.


... I can see that, and I can see your point.  But I still want to ask (if you know, that is) if you file a lien, in as closed an environment as you make it sound, are you winning a fight but losing the war?  If this is a person's livelihood, is it better to just sigh and take it, because "that's just the way things are", or try  to file and win the full amount?  Do you bust your ass for reduced -but at least consistent- pay, or do you get one payday and then you're a champion with an empty stomach and a lot of bills?

From where I'm standing, (at the moment), the three big options are "Take it", "fight it and lose in the long run", or "nothing else to lose, so fark it."

Are there any kinds of protections?
 
2020-11-26 2:21:43 PM  
So now he's not going to ever get paid and have a couple of charges to pay for as well.

Does the UK not have mechanics liens?
 
2020-11-26 2:24:50 PM  
cypress hill - Cock The Hammer - Black Sunday
Youtube 5wuGSRx2qsc
 
2020-11-26 2:26:41 PM  
My customers are mainly large companies who are repeat clients, so I just pester my point of contact until he or she ends up begging their accounting department to at long last square up with me.

/ I want my two dollars
 
2020-11-26 2:47:31 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: Ker_Thwap: No idea about England, but if the homeowner doesn't pay, one can file a mechanics lien, against the property, typically if you made a material improvement in the property with your labor and or materials were used.  Some of the specifics depend on the state as always.

I've met/interviewed a whole lot of contractors/subcontractors/tradesmen.  It's a brutal industry, and a lot of the larger contractors have a reputation of paying their subs "just enough" to cover their fixed costs and minimize the chance of lawsuits.  Yeah, we promised you $7,000, you're getting $5,000.  You should be happy we gave you that much, and you can make your mortgage/truck payments.  Want to work in this town again, you'll take the $5,000 and like it.

Smashing/removing the work/materials, that's never going to work out for you.

File all ya want.  It's no guarantee you get your work done or money back.

Here in the US, a neighbor contacted another neighbor to do about $10k of work to his cabin.  The guy did maybe 3k of work, and bought 5k in materials (the actual numbers escape me)and essentially stopped.  Neighbor said "gimme back $2500 and let's just part ways.

Worker neighbor went psyyyyyycho.  All sorts of harassment, stalking, and intimidation.

Good neighbor took him to court, bad neighbor ended up with a $9k judgement...and disappeared a week later. Poof.  Gone.

Good neighbor is still out a bunch of money and had to pay more to get the work done.

Been a good 10 years since that happened, bad neighbor is still missing.

/And good riddance
//He lit my woods on fire a little
///Don't drink and pass out while burning leaves.  Then the grass.  Then two neighbor's woods



That additional work to finish the job right, did it involve any excavating?
 
2020-11-26 2:55:48 PM  

The Green Intern: Ker_Thwap: Strategy doesn't work because people don't use it, aren't aware that it exists.

... I can see that, and I can see your point.  But I still want to ask (if you know, that is) if you file a lien, in as closed an environment as you make it sound, are you winning a fight but losing the war?  If this is a person's livelihood, is it better to just sigh and take it, because "that's just the way things are", or try  to file and win the full amount?  Do you bust your ass for reduced -but at least consistent- pay, or do you get one payday and then you're a champion with an empty stomach and a lot of bills?

From where I'm standing, (at the moment), the three big options are "Take it", "fight it and lose in the long run", or "nothing else to lose, so fark it."

Are there any kinds of protections?


Join a union, that has pros and cons too. Demand payment in installments, pros and cons.  Single person using the legal system, pros and cons.  Taking it, that has mostly cons.  Causing damage and being a single person having the legal system used against you, mostly cons there too.

I've no perfect solution for everyone at every time.  The more options you learn about the better off you are at least.  Know what you're getting into, adjust your prices to account for surprise costs like occasional non payment?  Knowledge of ones options is always good.
 
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