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(SFGate)   The bad news is that there may be rolling blackouts throughout California on Thanksgiving. The good news is that you'll be able to roast your turkey to perfection in the wildfires   (sfgate.com) divider line
    More: PSA, Southern California, California, Northern California, Daniel Swain, Edison International, healthy amounts of rain, handful of storms, wettest locations  
•       •       •

1239 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2020 at 7:35 AM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-26 2:02:27 AM  
Southern California Edison.

It's fair to say a large portion of Californian's could be affected.

It's also fair to say a vast portion of California will not be affected.
 
2020-11-26 7:39:24 AM  
Sad and amazing.
 
2020-11-26 7:40:06 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Yum!

/ 78,000 double-smoked turkeys -- my mouth waters!
//So do my eyes.
 
2020-11-26 7:47:01 AM  
Lol. California.
 
2020-11-26 7:47:20 AM  
The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.
 
2020-11-26 7:55:02 AM  

bfh0417: Lol. California.


Trump is loser. Over it get
 
2020-11-26 7:55:45 AM  
Is must be b/c of the winds, it's not supposed to be hot here today.
 
2020-11-26 8:15:52 AM  
Yeah, it's winds.  Here in Sandy Eggo they're warning east county denizens they may lose power.
 
2020-11-26 8:44:33 AM  

Call the Guy: bfh0417: Lol. California.

Trump is loser. Over it get


And? Californians still get to sit in the dark on a regular basis.
 
2020-11-26 8:54:47 AM  
HAHA, I love living in the eastern sierras - my power plant is right up the hill from me. Only thing that goes out with the power is the internet - got dvd's and blu-rays to watch.
 
2020-11-26 9:05:46 AM  
It is interesting how in my State, the power grid has become more and more stable, and power outages are at an all time low.  We are rapidly leaving fossil fuels behind, and going wind and solar.  But, California is special, and better than any flyover state.
 
2020-11-26 9:36:05 AM  

Call the Guy: bfh0417: Lol. California.

Trump is loser. Over it get


I guess you don't remember the 2000-2001 rolling blackouts.
 
2020-11-26 9:50:25 AM  

PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.


By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.
 
2020-11-26 9:57:28 AM  

tuxq: Call the Guy: bfh0417: Lol. California.

Trump is loser. Over it get

I guess you don't remember the 2000-2001 rolling blackouts.


Zing! A thing that happened 20 years ago that had nothing to do with the government of California and everything to do with republican "free market" farkery. Wow you got us!


But yes, California is nothing but poop and needles and you should stay in Texas.
 
2020-11-26 9:58:51 AM  

winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.


Most people believe climate change to an extent. What they don't believe in is clamping down on our own economy and way of living when even if the US completely eliminated fossil fuels, China and India would continue advancing climate change.

We're not the example of the future to the world some people like to fantasize about. Just because we do something, it doesn't mean anyone else gives a fark.

It's the same argument as gun control. You're only taking them away from people who obey the law in the first place. Fix the criminal element first, then we'll talk. Until then, la la la I can't hear you.

/For those my words rubbed raw, I'm sorry. It's not personal. It's my old, bitter and defeated hippie inside that hates itself for ever believing the hype.
 
2020-11-26 9:58:52 AM  

winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.


Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.
 
2020-11-26 9:59:47 AM  

gunther_bumpass: tuxq: Call the Guy: bfh0417: Lol. California.

Trump is loser. Over it get

I guess you don't remember the 2000-2001 rolling blackouts.

Zing! A thing that happened 20 years ago that had nothing to do with the government of California and everything to do with republican "free market" farkery. Wow you got us!


But yes, California is nothing but poop and needles and you should stay in Texas.


Ayyy it's always the republican's fault, isn't it?
 
2020-11-26 10:02:13 AM  
The good news is that those of us in California with socialist rate payer owned utilities don't tend to have rolling blackouts. We've never had one the entire time I've lived in this part of NorCal. Say what you will about SMUD, and they *are* far from perfect, but they are generally affordable, VERY reliable and they don't blow up entire neighborhoods.


I'm truly sorry that's a possibility for so many of my SoCal dudes. I hope they find a way to keep the power on for you guys safely. ♥
 
2020-11-26 10:03:45 AM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: The good news is that those of us in California with socialist rate payer owned utilities don't tend to have rolling blackouts. We've never had one the entire time I've lived in this part of NorCal. Say what you will about SMUD, and they *are* far from perfect, but they are generally affordable, VERY reliable and they don't blow up entire neighborhoods.


I'm truly sorry that's a possibility for so many of my SoCal dudes. I hope they find a way to keep the power on for you guys safely. ♥


I think what you mean to say is silicon valley tax base.
 
2020-11-26 10:13:28 AM  

tuxq: gunther_bumpass: tuxq: Call the Guy: bfh0417: Lol. California.

Trump is loser. Over it get

I guess you don't remember the 2000-2001 rolling blackouts.

Zing! A thing that happened 20 years ago that had nothing to do with the government of California and everything to do with republican "free market" farkery. Wow you got us!


But yes, California is nothing but poop and needles and you should stay in Texas.

Ayyy it's always the republican's fault, isn't it?


At that time it was Republican policy and free market farkery that did it. Enron was a key players.
Go read a farking book. There are several on the topic.
 
2020-11-26 10:15:25 AM  
Also, these aren't rolling blackouts. These are localized risk mitigation blackouts. Still screwy, but a totally different driver for why there is no power. Plenty of production, just a risk in transmission due to specific weather patterns.
 
2020-11-26 10:32:03 AM  

tuxq: Real Women Drink Akvavit: The good news is that those of us in California with socialist rate payer owned utilities don't tend to have rolling blackouts. We've never had one the entire time I've lived in this part of NorCal. Say what you will about SMUD, and they *are* far from perfect, but they are generally affordable, VERY reliable and they don't blow up entire neighborhoods.


I'm truly sorry that's a possibility for so many of my SoCal dudes. I hope they find a way to keep the power on for you guys safely. ♥

I think what you mean to say is silicon valley tax base.


No, they've got PG&E for electric there except  Palo Alto (IIRC....?), which has their own rate payer owned utility, like we do here.

There's probably going to be a few more of those popping up, as it turns out that when you re-invest the money into the community in the form of things like better safety, more responsive customer service and green energy investments as desired by the owner rate payers rather than corporate profits, you can end up with better service.
 
2020-11-26 10:40:59 AM  

PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.


Almost. That is Zero Emission Vehicles, not just battery vehicles.

Is anybody concerned that California is not going to have enough money for pensions, high speed rail, and grid upgrades? Just asking questions here.
 
2020-11-26 10:49:00 AM  

caljar: It is interesting how in my State, the power grid has become more and more stable, and power outages are at an all time low.  We are rapidly leaving fossil fuels behind, and going wind and solar.  But, California is special, and better than any flyover state.


Japan has achieved some of this. Still plugging along. One thing that helps is stable demand for electricity. To be fair, California has a huge growth problem and new households and businesses. And they are about five years too late with their solar mandates, which could have reduced a lot of demand... satisfied it, I mean.

Anyway, having a stable grid is job 1 of a utility, so I hope that the rush for renewables has not had anything to do with the instability. In that vein, maybe the blackouts will spur people to getting their own arrays.

It is typical that an array will remain at least partially functional during a blackout, providing 1 or 2 kW so that life can go on. During the 3/11 earthquake aftermath in Japan, we were the only people in the neighborhood with power. We had about 50 phone chargers hooked up to an extension cord. It was wild.
 
2020-11-26 10:57:53 AM  
People hate on CA like Jets fans have been hating on the Pats for the last 20 years.
 
2020-11-26 11:03:00 AM  
Santa Ana winds and fires.  I'll stick to NOLA and hurricanes, We had a direct hit and lost power for 47 hours.  Switched to a propane generator.
 
2020-11-26 11:21:33 AM  

gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.


Underground power lines in earthquake central....  if you say so..
 
2020-11-26 11:35:42 AM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: except Palo Alto (IIRC....?), which has their own rate payer owned utility, like we do here.

There's probably going to be a few more of those popping up, as it turns out that when you re-invest the money into the community in the form of things like better safety, more responsive customer service and green energy investments as desired by the owner rate payers rather than corporate profits, you can end up with better service.


I'm interested in knowing what makes you think that?  To my knowledge (which could be totally wrong, but I don't think so) most "rate-payer" owned electric utilities were born of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936.  Itself a product of Roosevelt's New Deal planning.
 
2020-11-26 11:45:42 AM  
For those who are arguing that this shows that electric vehicles can't work when there are rolling blackouts. A business near me has supposedly contracted to be a test bed for these.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-26 11:54:05 AM  

sdd2000: For those who are arguing that this shows that electric vehicles can't work when there are rolling blackouts. A business near me has supposedly contracted to be a test bed for these.

[Fark user image 850x432]


I like the idea, but I'm guessing those are primarily grid-tied such that, over hours, they can "bank" their production to offset the charging output.  A rough guess on power generation (with 12 panels each) is 2kW  to 3kW max from each station in full sun.

My point being that there's a chance they aren't designed to produce during a blackout but, if they can, then output would be limited to sun conditions at the time.
 
2020-11-26 12:22:57 PM  

OlderGuy: gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.

Underground power lines in earthquake central....  if you say so..


Earthquake isn't the issue - they have natural gas lines underground.

Cost is the issue.
 
2020-11-26 12:23:23 PM  

sdd2000: For those who are arguing that this shows that electric vehicles can't work when there are rolling blackouts. A business near me has supposedly contracted to be a test bed for these.

[Fark user image image 850x432]


How many days to charge a vehicle?
 
2020-11-26 12:24:17 PM  

sdd2000: For those who are arguing that this shows that electric vehicles can't work when there are rolling blackouts. A business near me has supposedly contracted to be a test bed for these.

[Fark user image 850x432]


Doubtful that those would recharge a vehicle.  That's enough solar to keep a boat's appliances running.   Given and electric engine, maybe a a few knots of motoring during the day.  A few thousands pouds of car for a day's use?  Better keep a bicycle handy.

Tax credits, grant money, and publicity
 
2020-11-26 12:28:26 PM  

SansNeural: sdd2000: For those who are arguing that this shows that electric vehicles can't work when there are rolling blackouts. A business near me has supposedly contracted to be a test bed for these.

[Fark user image 850x432]

I like the idea, but I'm guessing those are primarily grid-tied such that, over hours, they can "bank" their production to offset the charging output.  A rough guess on power generation (with 12 panels each) is 2kW  to 3kW max from each station in full sun.

My point being that there's a chance they aren't designed to produce during a blackout but, if they can, then output would be limited to sun conditions at the time.


If I recall the press release each has a multi Kilowatt hour battery as essentially the base/ballast for the unit so that each unit acts as it's own "store". It probably is not enough to fully charge a vehicle, but then a blackout is normally not that long so as soon as line power is back the units can top off the ballast battery. I think there was a suggestion as well that they were looking at some small vertical wind turbines to supplement the solar.
 
2020-11-26 1:10:26 PM  

SansNeural: Real Women Drink Akvavit: except Palo Alto (IIRC....?), which has their own rate payer owned utility, like we do here.

There's probably going to be a few more of those popping up, as it turns out that when you re-invest the money into the community in the form of things like better safety, more responsive customer service and green energy investments as desired by the owner rate payers rather than corporate profits, you can end up with better service.

I'm interested in knowing what makes you think that?  To my knowledge (which could be totally wrong, but I don't think so) most "rate-payer" owned electric utilities were born of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936.  Itself a product of Roosevelt's New Deal planning.


It's been a common conversation after the last couple of fire seasons. I know at one point there was some talk about a state run utility, but I don't know anyone  who thinks that would be feasible right now. I also don't know if  that's actually still being considered, because things can change very rapidly here. There were, and probably still are, multiple cities discussing the possibility of going customer-owned.

I do know that (last I heard, anyway) San Jose was actively exploring the process of forming a municipal utility district rather than continuing with PG&E. The lack of adequate response coupled with the lack of any sort of meaningful accountability has quite frankly (and understandably) pissed people off. Then PG&E was straight up asking the bankruptcy court to approve multi-million dollar executive bonuses after so many people died while the same executives largely sidestepped responsibility for the decisions that took out entire towns - well, some  of those C-Suite guys are lucky no one has burned their houses down. Yet.

That is a terrible thing to do  to anyone, so no one go lighting any fires. Also, those things spread like crazy and it hasn't really rained here in a while, so def don't do  it, k?
 
2020-11-26 1:25:56 PM  
just getting Americans used to the third world hellhole that is being created for them.
 
2020-11-26 1:40:25 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: SansNeural: Real Women Drink Akvavit: except Palo Alto (IIRC....?), which has their own rate payer owned utility, like we do here.

There's probably going to be a few more of those popping up, as it turns out that when you re-invest the money into the community in the form of things like better safety, more responsive customer service and green energy investments as desired by the owner rate payers rather than corporate profits, you can end up with better service.

I'm interested in knowing what makes you think that?  To my knowledge (which could be totally wrong, but I don't think so) most "rate-payer" owned electric utilities were born of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936.  Itself a product of Roosevelt's New Deal planning.

It's been a common conversation after the last couple of fire seasons. I know at one point there was some talk about a state run utility, but I don't know anyone  who thinks that would be feasible right now. I also don't know if  that's actually still being considered, because things can change very rapidly here. There were, and probably still are, multiple cities discussing the possibility of going customer-owned.

I do know that (last I heard, anyway) San Jose was actively exploring the process of forming a municipal utility district rather than continuing with PG&E. The lack of adequate response coupled with the lack of any sort of meaningful accountability has quite frankly (and understandably) pissed people off. Then PG&E was straight up asking the bankruptcy court to approve multi-million dollar executive bonuses after so many people died while the same executives largely sidestepped responsibility for the decisions that took out entire towns - well, some  of those C-Suite guys are lucky no one has burned their houses down. Yet.

That is a terrible thing to do  to anyone, so no one go lighting any fires. Also, those things spread like crazy and it hasn't really rained here in a while, so def don't do  it, k?


The entire bay area would PUD in a second, except PG&E owns the transmission into the bay area and fundamentally nothing would change except the PUD would have to maintain the local grid while paying PG&E what it wanted to charge for power.

The solution is of course more transmission and local generation. Neither of which can happen in CA with NIMBY and bay area type idiocy.

The same is basically true of N/S transmission within the state and SoCal Edison. Strangle hold on transmission.

Bankruptcy courts should take it. But if state run they would do super stupid things for CA political reasons. The state that approved HSR would also try to bury high tension transmission (WTF it's only a few Billion $). Morons everywhere.
 
2020-11-26 1:51:36 PM  

The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: Bankruptcy courts should take it. But if state run they would do super stupid things for CA political reasons. The state that approved HSR would also try to bury high tension transmission (WTF it's only a few Billion $). Morons everywhere.


Aren't there RECs (Rural Electric Cooperatives) in CA?  Bankruptcy courts should turn it over to *them*.  Here in red-state Oklahoma there sure are a lot of people who love their commie electric utility.  Mine has started to roll out a new fiber-to-the-pole Internet service.   And given their track record, I believe they'll do it on time, with their (our) own money and at a reasonable service price in the end.

The RECs are hierarchical in tech, too.  Mine gets energy from KAMO (Kansas-Arkansas-Oklahoma-Missouri) who has already had network, lately fiber, along their right-of-way starting in the  1970s.  Point being the RECs have in their entire history a plan of sharing / cooperation all along their hierarchy.  All with a mandate to re-invest any "profits" from energy sales back into the utility and its networks.
 
2020-11-26 1:56:27 PM  

gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.


And that monorail they've been building
 
2020-11-26 2:01:21 PM  
Meh, I got the member states names in the wrong order, but here's KAMO's web site, their network site and info on my local REC's fiber plan FAQs
 
2020-11-26 2:02:26 PM  

SansNeural: The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: Bankruptcy courts should take it. But if state run they would do super stupid things for CA political reasons. The state that approved HSR would also try to bury high tension transmission (WTF it's only a few Billion $). Morons everywhere.

Aren't there RECs (Rural Electric Cooperatives) in CA?  Bankruptcy courts should turn it over to *them*.  Here in red-state Oklahoma there sure are a lot of people who love their commie electric utility.  Mine has started to roll out a new fiber-to-the-pole Internet service.   And given their track record, I believe they'll do it on time, with their (our) own money and at a reasonable service price in the end.

The RECs are hierarchical in tech, too.  Mine gets energy from KAMO (Kansas-Arkansas-Oklahoma-Missouri) who has already had network, lately fiber, along their right-of-way starting in the  1970s.  Point being the RECs have in their entire history a plan of sharing / cooperation all along their hierarchy.  All with a mandate to re-invest any "profits" from energy sales back into the utility and its networks.


'Utility districts' are the same thing without the commie language. In CA the rural ones are often outgrowths of the local water districts. They couldn't be trusted with transmission ether.\

Transmission should be an independent non-profit. Not that non-profits don't suck in their own ways. It would be 40 years before it turned into something like TVA. The thing to do would be to include a poison pill in the charter, when it grows political and useless, it dies. A new one is spun up and all the politicians nieces/nephews/sons/daughters get honest jobs (yeah right).

Downside...real world...The two WORST engineers I've ever worked with both work for the CA ISO (Independent System Operator) and have for decades. It's just typical government work.
 
2020-11-26 2:09:50 PM  
Not a problem where I live in California.  We, the people, own our power company, and our power company's core values are service and safety, not executive bonuses and shareholder dividends, so they roll profits back into maintaining their infrastructure, rather than wasting it on exec bonuses and lawsuits.
California needs to take over the power grid.
 
2020-11-26 2:16:28 PM  

gar1013: OlderGuy: gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.

Underground power lines in earthquake central....  if you say so..

Earthquake isn't the issue - they have natural gas lines underground.

Cost is the issue.


True... steel pipe is more durable than direct burial primary cable, though...
 
2020-11-26 2:18:05 PM  

Vtimlin: gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.

And that monorail they've been building


Well, they do have one.

At Disneyland.
 
2020-11-26 2:18:51 PM  

OlderGuy: gar1013: OlderGuy: gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.

Underground power lines in earthquake central....  if you say so..

Earthquake isn't the issue - they have natural gas lines underground.

Cost is the issue.

True... steel pipe is more durable than direct burial primary cable, though...


As I recall, natural gas pipes are actually flexible.
 
2020-11-26 2:44:12 PM  

gar1013: OlderGuy: gar1013: OlderGuy: gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.

Underground power lines in earthquake central....  if you say so..

Earthquake isn't the issue - they have natural gas lines underground.

Cost is the issue.

True... steel pipe is more durable than direct burial primary cable, though...

As I recall, natural gas pipes are actually flexible.


We had low pressure NAT when I bought this house.. 8" WC pressure.. new lines were installed about 4 years ago.. 25 PSI... some form of plastic pipe they could heat-weld..   they moled the drops to the houses with ABS pipe.. the old lines were cast iron with galvanized drops... leaks everywhere, which allowed ground water to seep in.  No big surprise to find gas meters full of water..  (hvac tech)
 
2020-11-26 2:46:46 PM  
gar1013:

True... steel pipe is more durable than direct burial primary cable, though...

As I recall, natural gas pipes are actually flexible.


Yeah, they are putting in some near us now, unfortunately not to our area though. They are 4" diameter and the official color for natural gas pipe is Yellow. Not sure what they are made of, but they are very flexible and come on a roll and they are just bending it around obstacles.
 
2020-11-26 2:48:27 PM  

gar1013: OlderGuy: gar1013: OlderGuy: gar1013: winedrinkingman: PapermonkeyExpress: The good news is Newsom is mandating full electric car use by 2035

The bad news is that CA will have no means to power the charging stations. brilliant!!

Enjoy the rolling blackouts, you lead-eating FARK wits.

By 2035 they will have long completed the numerous projects they have in place, like putting powerlines underground, or higher up, that will make this problem irrelevant. 

Keep in my that the major reason the fires are starting is because the dry season is much longer and severe, because of the damage those gas powered cars are doing to the atmosphere.  Though you probably don't believe that.  You probably chose to believe Climate Change is a myth, and that the earth just magically makes all those gases and vapers disappear.  In which case, I propose an experiment.  Fill a green house full of plants and a gas generator.  Fully enclose so the air can't circulate in or out, and then turn on the gas generator, and see how long it takes the air to become unbreathable.  Sure, if given enough time, the plants will eventually clean the air, but not so long as the generator is running.

Lol.

You think that CA will have underground power lines by then.

Underground power lines in earthquake central....  if you say so..

Earthquake isn't the issue - they have natural gas lines underground.

Cost is the issue.

True... steel pipe is more durable than direct burial primary cable, though...

As I recall, natural gas pipes are actually flexible.


Steal is incredibly elastic. Hit a piece of steal with a sledge hammer...don't...the sledge will come back at you and can kill you.

A buried high voltage cable is a very expensive and highly engineered structure. Layers. Cable impedance is an issue. Heating from losses is an issue.
Ground movement is also an issue, frost heaves or earthquakes both break things.
 
2020-11-26 2:52:31 PM  

The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: The entire bay area would PUD in a second, except PG&E owns the transmission into the bay area and fundamentally nothing would change except the PUD would have to maintain the local grid while paying PG&E what it wanted to charge for power.


One of the selling points with deregulation here was that the owners of the transmission lines - like PG&E - would be required to share the lines with competitors, which would lower costs  for everyone because they'd share upkeep costs *and* if a municipality wanted to generate its own power it could. The means of transmission would already be there, available to other power companies.

Then of course there were shenanigans and whatnot and I realized politics makes  people stupid and greedy to varying degrees  based on how much the  person hates anyone with a different view of something, so I quit paying attention to politics as much as possible.

Did they repeal that  whole "you can generate your own power and the people who own the lines have to share them" thing? Even if they did, if San Jose is looking into municipal power, I'm sure they've got enough money and shiftiness out there to buy a law change. That is how things still work, right?

The solution is of course more transmission and local generation. Neither of which can happen in CA with NIMBY and bay area type idiocy.

The same is basically true of N/S transmission within the state and SoCal Edison. Strangle hold on transmission.


Luckily for those who feel like huffing Schadenfreude, a not insignificant portion of the Bay Area burned down over the summer. Those displaced people seem to have scattered, many of them around Sacramento, where I'm sure they will learn to love the reliability of socialist power generation nearly as much as one learns to love the lack of exploding and/or flaming suburban neighborhoods.  Wait until they find out they can use their cell phones in their houses. They'll never want  to leave -  or maybe tell the surviving NIMBYs to STFU they want a cell tower or two when  they rebuild. It's cheaper here - that's why I came up - so I bet a lot of them will stay, at least for a while.

The knight who says EkiEkiPoontang: The state that approved HSR would also try to bury high tension transmission (WTF it's only a few Billion $).


A lot of us really wanted  that rail and are PISSED that it was so poorly managed that it killed our dream and cost us money. I mean REALLY pissed. That's all I can really say about that without being mean to someone, something I always try to avoid. That's how angry and upset I am over it - I am tempted to be a big ol' meanie.

As far  as burying the lines - unless they find a better way to transmit power (technology? magic?) then they'll  have to. You know what? F*ck what it costs. Even a single person dying over someone else's desire for more money is abhorrent. Absolutely, completely, 100% f*cking abhorrent. This should NEVER be tolerated.  Any and every single incident where corporate profits  are placed over human life  needs to be identified, and if that incorrect prioritization has cost a single person their lives then the individuals at  the very top who signed the paperwork and then profited from it need to be criminally prosecuted as individuals - full stop.

We all have innate value as human beings. Allowing or even making excuses for people to place profits over our lives is an attempt to justify the ongoing devaluing of human beings as a whole. I can save a lot of time by simply pointing out that there is zero justification for it, so that shiat needs  to stop.
 
2020-11-26 2:57:01 PM  

KarmicDisaster: gar1013:

True... steel pipe is more durable than direct burial primary cable, though...

As I recall, natural gas pipes are actually flexible.

Yeah, they are putting in some near us now, unfortunately not to our area though. They are 4" diameter and the official color for natural gas pipe is Yellow. Not sure what they are made of, but they are very flexible and come on a roll and they are just bending it around obstacles.


According to what I'm reading the pipes did used to be made of coiled steel, but are now made of Polyethylene which is more flexible and less likely to break.
 
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