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(MacRumors)   Apple is so sure about their new M1 processors that they will be releasing more Macbooks in 2021 with both M1 and Intel   (macrumors.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Macintosh, Apple Inc., Apple Silicon chips, MacBook, Apple plans, better performance, L0vetodream, MacBook redesigns  
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397 clicks; posted to STEM » on 25 Nov 2020 at 2:06 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-25 1:04:36 PM  
Maxed-out specs:
13" i7/32GB RAM/4TB SSD $3600
16" i9/5600M/64GB RAM/8TB SSD $6700

Guessing the M1X or M2 won't have much more RAM than M1, if they'll be introducing another Intel MacBook Pro
 
2020-11-25 1:10:17 PM  
Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-11-25 1:29:56 PM  
What the maximum vector processing bandwidth of Apple's chip? Intel does 16 to 24 32 bit FMA operations per cycle, 32 on the higher end chips. ARM has 128 bit wide vector registers compared to Intel's 256 or 512 bits so they would need to issue twice as many instructions per cycle to keep up. If you're doing neural network stuff with the right framework you can offload the work to the coprocessor, but if you have different workloads or lack the right software you're stuck with the main CPU.  So there's a reason for a few people to stick with Intel for a while.
 
2020-11-25 2:19:18 PM  
I predicted this branch

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 2:24:59 PM  

gbv23: I predicted this branch

[i.imgur.com image 363x433]


<Lisa Simpson>
I know those words, but this post makes no sense to me.
</Lisa Simpson>
 
2020-11-25 2:28:18 PM  
I also don't like the limitation of only two displays.  My current macbook pro is hooked up to two apple thunderbolt monitors so I have three screens.  I wouldn't go back to two willingly.

Most of the other stuff is OK for me.  I do have some software that might not work, but it'll get ported over eventually.

I'd still buy one more intel based mac before I jump to apple silicone.
 
2020-11-25 2:31:30 PM  
Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products
 
2020-11-25 2:38:36 PM  

lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products


This is simply bullshiate. Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.
 
2020-11-25 2:55:22 PM  

paulleah: My home machine is an iMac from 2012.


I have a 13" MacBook Pro from 2017, and my wife has my old 2013 15" MacBook Pro. Hers is at least as powerful as mine and has a much better keyboard. Yes, Macs cost more, but they do last a lot longer.
 
2020-11-25 2:59:22 PM  

paulleah: lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products

This is simply bullshiate. Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.


I'm getting benchmark envy of the M1s, but my 2013 MBP is still good enough for anything I do, which tends towards CPU-heavy (only 2x advantage) rather than GPU heavy (20x-advantage).
 
2020-11-25 3:04:27 PM  

lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products


Seriously.

My 10 year old white plastic MacBook is so slow that we only use it for browsing the web and word processing.

When it was new, we totally used it for browsing the web and word processing.

I mean...

media.makeameme.orgView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 3:07:37 PM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: Maxed-out specs:
13" i7/32GB RAM/4TB SSD $3600
16" i9/5600M/64GB RAM/8TB SSD $6700

Guessing the M1X or M2 won't have much more RAM than M1, if they'll be introducing another Intel MacBook Pro


oooops!

wrong Operating system.


and way overpriced
 
2020-11-25 3:08:31 PM  

ZAZ: What the maximum vector processing bandwidth of Apple's chip? Intel does 16 to 24 32 bit FMA operations per cycle, 32 on the higher end chips. ARM has 128 bit wide vector registers compared to Intel's 256 or 512 bits so they would need to issue twice as many instructions per cycle to keep up. If you're doing neural network stuff with the right framework you can offload the work to the coprocessor, but if you have different workloads or lack the right software you're stuck with the main CPU.  So there's a reason for a few people to stick with Intel for a while.



AMD's Ryzen would like a word with you...........
 
2020-11-25 3:11:19 PM  

paulleah: lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products

This is simply bullshiate. Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.


yea, running windows.............

my 2007 laptop  (Dell) still runs fine with Linux. added some ram and SSD over the  years.

my 2008 desktop still running great with Linux.  course, it has an Samsung SSD now, and more ram.

Touche'
 
2020-11-25 3:13:40 PM  

FlashHarry: paulleah: My home machine is an iMac from 2012.

I have a 13" MacBook Pro from 2017, and my wife has my old 2013 15" MacBook Pro. Hers is at least as powerful as mine and has a much better keyboard. Yes, Macs cost more, but they do last a lot longer.



PC hardware costs alot less, and lasts longer..............


originally loaded with windows, but i fixed that problem.   PC hardware is good, its windows that shortens its life.

my 2007 laptop  (Dell) still runs fine with Linux. added some ram and SSD over the  years.

my 2008 desktop still running great with Linux.  course, it has an Samsung SSD now, and more ram.

Touche'


Touche'
 
2020-11-25 3:21:41 PM  
Looking at a comparison of the entry level Macbook Pro and a Dell XPS 9500 aimed at content creation pros, they have every reason to be confident of the M1.

MacBook Pro M1 vs XPS 9500 - Can the apple silicon keep up with a 15" content creation laptop?
Youtube 12EPAWvVLKk
 
2020-11-25 3:28:38 PM  

Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM


Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

8GB vs 16GB M1 MacBook Pro - How much RAM do you NEED?!
Youtube PP1_4wek4nI
 
2020-11-25 3:33:12 PM  

labman: I also don't like the limitation of only two displays.


So use a dock or USB adapter and attach more displays to it?

Six Displays Running on M1 Mac Mini, Macbook Air + Activity Monitor + Subscriber Q&A #WorkFromHome
Youtube Kq_FyjcAULA
 
2020-11-25 3:47:49 PM  

BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[YouTube video: 8GB vs 16GB M1 MacBook Pro - How much RAM do you NEED?!]


People buy pro level machines to do that kind of work on them.
 
2020-11-25 3:48:34 PM  

Linux_Yes: ZAZ: What the maximum vector processing bandwidth of Apple's chip? Intel does 16 to 24 32 bit FMA operations per cycle, 32 on the higher end chips. ARM has 128 bit wide vector registers compared to Intel's 256 or 512 bits so they would need to issue twice as many instructions per cycle to keep up. If you're doing neural network stuff with the right framework you can offload the work to the coprocessor, but if you have different workloads or lack the right software you're stuck with the main CPU.  So there's a reason for a few people to stick with Intel for a while.


AMD's Ryzen would like a word with you...........


Zen 3 and Intel Tigerlake's Willow Cove Cores both lose out to the M1 on single core floating point math, but depending on the test Zen 3 pulls ahead sometimes on integer math.

However, the M1 is an entry level laptop chip and the laptop versions of Ryzen still run Zen 2 cores.

images.anandtech.comView Full Size


images.anandtech.comView Full Size


On the integrated GPU side, it's not even a contest.  You have to add a discrete GPU to a laptop to be competitive.

images.anandtech.comView Full Size


The crazy thing is that this is Apple's version of an entry level i3. It's only intended for their lowest level computers.  More beefy chips for the higher end Macbooks are already said to be in testing.
 
2020-11-25 3:49:12 PM  

Linux_Yes: paulleah: lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products

This is simply bullshiate. Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.

yea, running windows.............

my 2007 laptop  (Dell) still runs fine with Linux. added some ram and SSD over the  years.

my 2008 desktop still running great with Linux.  course, it has an Samsung SSD now, and more ram.

Touche'


Hang in there. Linux will overtake Windows next year for sure!
 
2020-11-25 3:56:20 PM  

Gubbo: BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[YouTube video: 8GB vs 16GB M1 MacBook Pro - How much RAM do you NEED?!]

People buy pro level machines to do that kind of work on them.


People expect the Surface "Pro" X to be able to run 64 bit Windows software.

The fact is that people have been doing real world testing and have found that the 8 Gig entry level Macs can edit all the way up to 8k Red RAW video footage using DaVinci Resolve and the Windows version requires 16 Gigs of RAM to edit 1080p footage.

DaVinci Resolve + M1: Can it edit 8K RAW?
Youtube HxH3RabNWfE
 
2020-11-25 3:57:09 PM  

Linux_Yes: PC hardware costs alot (sic) less, and lasts longer..............


It's not the hardware; it's the OS. But the hardware lasts plenty long too.
 
2020-11-25 4:01:06 PM  

ZAZ: What the maximum vector processing bandwidth of Apple's chip? Intel does 16 to 24 32 bit FMA operations per cycle, 32 on the higher end chips. ARM has 128 bit wide vector registers compared to Intel's 256 or 512 bits so they would need to issue twice as many instructions per cycle to keep up. If you're doing neural network stuff with the right framework you can offload the work to the coprocessor, but if you have different workloads or lack the right software you're stuck with the main CPU.  So there's a reason for a few people to stick with Intel for a while.


IIRC certain apps such as Photoshop don't work well on AMD hackintoshes due to lack of AVX support, and Rosetta 2 doesn't emulate them. Here are some benchmarks for M1-compiled Affinity Photo vs. its Intel counterparts, a budget photo editor:
Fark user imageView Full Size
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 4:08:48 PM  
 
2020-11-25 4:10:32 PM  
This M1 chip sounds pretty nice. Pity it's stuck inside machines built by Apple.
 
2020-11-25 4:30:05 PM  
Subby, they are still using Intel chips for the high-end stuff for another year or two. As you can see from the product released so far, the M1 chip is for the consumer products, not the professional market. They will probably come out with a chip that is faster and more powerful some time next year.

It's always fun to toss some facts into the usual iHater Circle Jerk.
 
2020-11-25 4:39:09 PM  

BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/PP1_4wek​4nI]


Unfortunately nobody optimizes shiat these days. I've got a docker (there's my first problem) development environment that takes 12GB to load before it can actually do anything....
 
2020-11-25 4:44:10 PM  

paulleah: lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products

This is simply bullshiate.Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.


You're right, everything that followed on that paragraph was simply bullshiate.

2012 is the tail end of Sandy Bridge (aka i7-2600K family), start of Ivy Bridge (i7-3770K family), both of which are still very common chipsets in both laptops and desktops in non-Mac PCs. People who upgrade them don't go and replace all of the bits, they usually add SSDs or better GPUs because they're still perfectly usable for gaming.

Not replacing things in it isn't something to be impressed by, you're only harming yourself by not putting an SSD in it and you can get a 128GB SSD for literally $20USD.
 
2020-11-25 4:44:37 PM  

FlashHarry: Linux_Yes: PC hardware costs alot (sic) less, and lasts longer..............

It's not the hardware; it's the OS. But the hardware lasts plenty long too.



ive never had a hardware failure using pc hardware with Linux since 2005/06 when i began using Linux.

i keep my hardware a long time until i have a good enough reason to upgrade it.
 
2020-11-25 4:47:58 PM  

bingethinker: Subby, they are still using Intel chips for the high-end stuff for another year or two. As you can see from the product released so far, the M1 chip is for the consumer products, not the professional market. They will probably come out with a chip that is faster and more powerful some time next year.

It's always fun to toss some facts into the usual iHater Circle Jerk.



i wouldn't all it iHate.   i would call it the inability to pay 2 to 3 times for something that i can get by running Linux on PC hardware.

smartphone is different, though.  androids snoop more and are less secure than apple phones.  but then again, my last android that i bought in 2019 was only 200 bucks.

Librem 5 is addressing that problem.
 
2020-11-25 4:49:33 PM  

paulleah: Linux_Yes: paulleah: lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products

This is simply bullshiate. Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.

yea, running windows.............

my 2007 laptop  (Dell) still runs fine with Linux. added some ram and SSD over the  years.

my 2008 desktop still running great with Linux.  course, it has an Samsung SSD now, and more ram.

Touche'

Hang in there. Linux will overtake Windows next year for sure!


it already has except for the Desktop.

where have you been??
 
2020-11-25 4:52:27 PM  

bingethinker: Subby, they are still using Intel chips for the high-end stuff for another year or two. As you can see from the product released so far, the M1 chip is for the consumer products, not the professional market. They will probably come out with a chip that is faster and more powerful some time next year.

It's always fun to toss some facts into the usual iHater Circle Jerk.


more unwillingness than unable.   apples are good products but they aren't as good as many think and are way overpriced.  but they do have the marketing and wow factor.

the walled garden
 
2020-11-25 5:18:08 PM  
I'm excited to see what this chip design brings to the desktop, given the m1 mac mini's performance in professional tasks like logic, where it's been seen to just crush mac intel systems

Crank it up to 12 bigs, 6 littles, 18gpu cores and twice the neural engine cores and stand back biatches.
 
2020-11-25 5:35:33 PM  
I have an M1 MacBook Pro on order. 16gb/1tb SSD. Some of the products the company I work for makes also run on Mac. We ordered a bunch of Mac minis for development and testing, but I wanted to be able to have something of my own to tinker with. Aside from work, like a lot of people, have a small home studio which is also Mac-based that eventually I'll migrate off of Intel. Maybe later than sooner, depending on how long it takes for companies to report my favorite plug-ins for native operation.

Thinking back now, that's about one of the first Intel Macs back in the day. Which is a little weird because I'm not really an early adopter, but clearly have been one when it comes to Macs.
 
2020-11-25 6:32:28 PM  

Enigmamf: BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/PP1_4wek​4nI]

Unfortunately nobody optimizes shiat these days. I've got a docker (there's my first problem) development environment that takes 12GB to load before it can actually do anything....


Having an 8 Gig version that can complete professional workloads without breaking a sweat kind of makes the complaints that 16 Gigs won't cut it look rather silly.
 
2020-11-25 6:43:46 PM  
The M1 through M4 weren't entirely successful. Not until Dr. Richard Daystrom impressed his engrams on the M5's circuitry.

Then the murders began.

Here we see Dr. Richard Daystrom receiving a much needed relaxing Vulcan neck pinch.

Fark user imageView Full Size

/"ahh, that's the spot."
 
2020-11-25 6:48:10 PM  

BullBearMS: Enigmamf: BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/PP1_4wek​4nI]

Unfortunately nobody optimizes shiat these days. I've got a docker (there's my first problem) development environment that takes 12GB to load before it can actually do anything....

Having an 8 Gig version that can complete professional workloads without breaking a sweat kind of makes the complaints that 16 Gigs won't cut it look rather silly.


You realize that there are other workloads, right?
 
2020-11-25 6:53:59 PM  

lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products


Apple laptops have been solid for me.
And the resale is stupid good.

Now, I can't see spending over $2200 on an Windows or Apple laptop.
I use the 2200 mark as a reference for a solid ultra book with nice specs.

But yeah; if I'm spending 7k it's going to be a Ryzen system.
But 7k on a gaming machine is overkill. You can build a really strong machine in the 1700 to 2000 range.
 
2020-11-25 7:05:34 PM  

Linux_Yes: bingethinker: Subby, they are still using Intel chips for the high-end stuff for another year or two. As you can see from the product released so far, the M1 chip is for the consumer products, not the professional market. They will probably come out with a chip that is faster and more powerful some time next year.

It's always fun to toss some facts into the usual iHater Circle Jerk.


i wouldn't all it iHate.   i would call it the inability to pay 2 to 3 times for something that i can get by running Linux on PC hardware.

smartphone is different, though.  androids snoop more and are less secure than apple phones.  but then again, my last android that i bought in 2019 was only 200 bucks.

Librem 5 is addressing that problem.


Multiple years later you are still pimping a, phone with three year old tech that if you pay 800 bucks today you can get by Easter
 
2020-11-25 7:07:27 PM  

thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: Enigmamf: BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/PP1_4wek​4nI]

Unfortunately nobody optimizes shiat these days. I've got a docker (there's my first problem) development environment that takes 12GB to load before it can actually do anything....

Having an 8 Gig version that can complete professional workloads without breaking a sweat kind of makes the complaints that 16 Gigs won't cut it look rather silly.

You realize that there are other workloads, right?


By all means, point me to a workload you would expect an entry level ultrabook to preform that won't fit into 16 Gigs of RAM on the Mac.

So far, we've seen the entry level 8 Gig Mac doing things that the Windows version of the same program needs 64 Gigs of RAM to accomplish, as well as an entry level 8 Gig Mac that has a ridiculous number of memory heavy applications open at the same time.
 
2020-11-25 7:45:00 PM  

BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: Enigmamf: BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/PP1_4wek​4nI]

Unfortunately nobody optimizes shiat these days. I've got a docker (there's my first problem) development environment that takes 12GB to load before it can actually do anything....

Having an 8 Gig version that can complete professional workloads without breaking a sweat kind of makes the complaints that 16 Gigs won't cut it look rather silly.

You realize that there are other workloads, right?

By all means, point me to a workload you would expect an entry level ultrabook to preform that won't fit into 16 Gigs of RAM on the Mac.

So far, we've seen the entry level 8 Gig Mac doing things that the Windows version of the same program needs 64 Gigs of RAM to accomplish, as well as an entry level 8 Gig Mac that has a ridiculous number of memory heavy applications open at the same time.


Well for one, the Air is entry-level; the Pro is not. And I just gave you one, which you poo-pooed. Virtualization doesn't have the same kind of lift-transform-drop workflow that you see in media editing. The M1 will be great at lift-transform-drop. And I bet it will be perfect for 99% of current Pro-series users. I just happen to think my current work project isn't one of them. It won't be great when the entirety of a large working set must stay actively in memory, alongside all the usual OS / browser / electron bloatware / IDE stuff.
 
2020-11-25 8:19:23 PM  

Enigmamf: the Air is entry-level; the Pro is not.


The Pro is an entire line up of devices, which includes entry level ones.

Only the entry level Macbook Pro has an M1 model available.

All the other Macbook Pro models are still Intel only.

Enigmamf: I just gave you one,


Google doesn't have a version of the Go programming language that runs on ARM, and Docker requires Go.

So you have a theory, not a real workload that can be tested.
 
2020-11-25 8:21:17 PM  
My bad.  I should say Go doesn't run on the M1 yet, not ARM in general.
 
2020-11-25 8:34:43 PM  

Enigmamf: BullBearMS: thurstonxhowell: BullBearMS: Enigmamf: BullBearMS: Gubbo: Feels like the M1 still needs a little work. Which is to be expected in a Gen 1 product.

Still looks like a surprisingly competent piece of hardware though for Air. Not sure I'd want something that claims to be pro level with those limited amounts of RAM

Looking at a comparison of an 8 Gig and 16 Gig Macbook Pros running a shiatload of software at once including bloated stuff like Chrome and Electron apps, you can see a tiny difference, but you have to be running very demanding professional workloads to see much of a real world performance difference.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/PP1_4wek​4nI]

Unfortunately nobody optimizes shiat these days. I've got a docker (there's my first problem) development environment that takes 12GB to load before it can actually do anything....

Having an 8 Gig version that can complete professional workloads without breaking a sweat kind of makes the complaints that 16 Gigs won't cut it look rather silly.

You realize that there are other workloads, right?

By all means, point me to a workload you would expect an entry level ultrabook to preform that won't fit into 16 Gigs of RAM on the Mac.

So far, we've seen the entry level 8 Gig Mac doing things that the Windows version of the same program needs 64 Gigs of RAM to accomplish, as well as an entry level 8 Gig Mac that has a ridiculous number of memory heavy applications open at the same time.

Well for one, the Air is entry-level; the Pro is not. And I just gave you one, which you poo-pooed. Virtualization doesn't have the same kind of lift-transform-drop workflow that you see in media editing. The M1 will be great at lift-transform-drop. And I bet it will be perfect for 99% of current Pro-series users. I just happen to think my current work project isn't one of them. It won't be great when the entirety of a large working set must stay actively in memory, alongside all the usual OS / browser / elect ...


What is your current work project?

The M1s are capable of virtualization.  Apple has a hypervisor framework in Big Sur that is enabled for Apple Silicon.  VMware, Parallels, and Docker have all announced that they are working on bringing their virtualization software to the new Macs.  The 16GB Pro probably won't be great for virtualization, but it will probably be better than an equivalent Windows machine running VMware Workstation.
 
2020-11-25 9:24:34 PM  

paulleah: lifeslammer: Hmmmm, 6700 huh.....

For an even 7k I could build a desktop with an amd 3960x CPU, 256GB of memory, GTX 2080TI card, 2 4TB SSDs, a 32 inch screen, gaming mouse/keyboard and clean install of windows

Why in gods name would anyone waste the same amount of money on such inferior crap, when its been shown over and over that the laptops are one of the worst quality apple products

This is simply bullshiate. Apple laptops are famous for having a useable life higher than a comparable off the shelf non-Apple PC.

It's not unusual as l to find people using their Mactops for 10, 12 years.

My home machine is an iMac from 2012. I have not replaced anything in it. I use it every day for graphic design.

Next machine will probably be an m1 iMac is two years.


I'm still using my 2012 Macbook Pro with an upgraded SSD and 16 GB RAM. I'm not a use case for a power user by any means, but Power BI and PyCharm work just fine for what I need. My Lenovo laptop and maxed out desktop don't really offer much more in regards to performance in my situation. Apple machines really do hold up.
 
2020-11-26 12:00:25 AM  
There are only two things certain in an Apple thread on Fark: death and Linux_Yes
 
2020-11-26 1:06:26 AM  

cman: There are only two things certain in an Apple thread on Fark: death and Linux_Yes


And he is still pushing that phone that could not make phone calls last year.
 
2020-11-26 1:59:08 AM  

BullBearMS: So far, we've seen the entry level 8 Gig Mac doing things that the Windows version of the same program needs 64 Gigs of RAM to accomplish,


No we haven't. You've only posted a comparison between recommended minimum a piece of software uses, and then marketing material from the same company about new hardware, making claims about running in 8GB without anything REMOTELY close to a comparison between identical workloads, or any workloads at all
 
2020-11-26 2:09:49 AM  

Linux_Yes: apples are good products but they aren't as good as many think and are way overpriced.


Not as overpriced as people think. Apple has longer product cycles, and they don't drop prices down mid-cycle, so when their hardware ages and everybody is dropping prices for identical hardware, Apple doesn't.

This means that, for any given product, it spends half of its time under-competing, but generally early on in a product cycle their systems are competitive in price.
 
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