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(Screen Rant)   "The reedit has already fixed the biggest flaw of The Godfather Part III - the title," claims Screen Rant writer who apparently has benefited by never having seen "The Godfather Part III"   (screenrant.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Francis Ford Coppola, The Godfather Part III, The Godfather Part II, The Godfather, Godfather Part III, Mario Puzo, Godfather Part II, troubled production  
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763 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 25 Nov 2020 at 12:46 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-25 12:23:21 PM  
What the hell does "reedit" mean? Is that supposed to be "re-edit"? If so, the word is "recut".

...anyway, of the many problems of that movie, one of the biggest is that Pacino was definitely into the declining part of his career at that stage. Glengarry Glen Ross was a brief respite, but the scene with "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in" pretty much defined what we were going to get from Pacino from then on.
 
2020-11-25 12:59:24 PM  

HugeMistake: What the hell does "reedit" mean? Is that supposed to be "re-edit"? If so, the word is "recut".

...anyway, of the many problems of that movie, one of the biggest is that Pacino was definitely into the declining part of his career at that stage. Glengarry Glen Ross was a brief respite, but the scene with "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in" pretty much defined what we were going to get from Pacino from then on.


That's the one part of that movie everyone loves, though. It's such a hamblast of a line delivery, it's still funny after all these years.
 
2020-11-25 1:01:57 PM  
By changing the title to The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone, it's easier to appreciate the film for what it is, rather than expecting a masterpiece and inevitably being let down by a decent but unspectacular 2-and-a-half hours.  The "Coda" title also reaffirms the third film's status as an epilogue rather than a fully-fledged third installment.

A "coda" is a small bit of something, used to wrap up a larger work.  Calling GF3, at 2.5 hours, a "coda" is the height of revisionism, given that it is just slightly shorter than GF1's 2:55.  A "coda" that is almost as long as the song it wraps up isn't a coda at all.  If GF3 were, say, 30 minutes or so, I could buy this argument.  But it's not.  It was intended to be and presented as a feature film, and calling it something else now doesn't change its character at all.

And even if it did, it's still shiatty.  You could call it chocolate ice cream, but it's still a bad movie.
 
2020-11-25 1:11:40 PM  
I will forever hate it for the Helicopter Gunship assassination scene.

I will also hate any movie that copies the concept
 
2020-11-25 1:12:56 PM  

Uzzah: By changing the title to The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone, it's easier to appreciate the film for what it is, rather than expecting a masterpiece and inevitably being let down by a decent but unspectacular 2-and-a-half hours.  The "Coda" title also reaffirms the third film's status as an epilogue rather than a fully-fledged third installment.

A "coda" is a small bit of something, used to wrap up a larger work.  Calling GF3, at 2.5 hours, a "coda" is the height of revisionism, given that it is just slightly shorter than GF1's 2:55.  A "coda" that is almost as long as the song it wraps up isn't a coda at all.  If GF3 were, say, 30 minutes or so, I could buy this argument.  But it's not.  It was intended to be and presented as a feature film, and calling it something else now doesn't change its character at all.

And even if it did, it's still shiatty.  You could call it chocolate ice cream, but it's still a bad movie.


Maybe they can call it The Godfather: Götterdämmerrung. In a way, the Godfather series is like Wagner's Ring. Part I is like Rheingold with familial intrigue and Michael Corleone's ascension to being Don Corleone is like Wotan crossing the bridge to Valhalla. Part II, broken into the early years and Michael's Nevada years is sort of like Walküre and Siegfried. One talks about how Siegfried (Michael) comes to being and the other has him slaying a dragon (which could be either Fredo or all the typical enemies that had to be killed off). Then Part III/Coda shows the end of Michael, much like the end of Valhalla.

Yeah, the comparison is a stretch, but you get the general idea.
 
2020-11-25 1:14:00 PM  

Uzzah: By changing the title to The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone, it's easier to appreciate the film for what it is, rather than expecting a masterpiece and inevitably being let down by a decent but unspectacular 2-and-a-half hours.  The "Coda" title also reaffirms the third film's status as an epilogue rather than a fully-fledged third installment.

A "coda" is a small bit of something, used to wrap up a larger work.  Calling GF3, at 2.5 hours, a "coda" is the height of revisionism, given that it is just slightly shorter than GF1's 2:55.  A "coda" that is almost as long as the song it wraps up isn't a coda at all. If GF3 were, say, 30 minutes or so, I could buy this argument.  But it's not.  It was intended to be and presented as a feature film, and calling it something else now doesn't change its character at all.

And even if it did, it's still shiatty.  You could call it chocolate ice cream, but it's still a bad movie.


QFT

Even in Prog Rock, the coda is smaller than the main theme.
 
2020-11-25 1:14:53 PM  

HugeMistake: What the hell does "reedit" mean? Is that supposed to be "re-edit"? If so, the word is "recut".


I thought it was Reddit for woodwind players.
 
2020-11-25 1:15:35 PM  
The Godfather, Part II-B: The Revengining
 
2020-11-25 1:22:39 PM  
But Coppola's daughter gave such a stunning performance... I mean, she had that one facial expression and everything!
 
2020-11-25 1:24:32 PM  
Biggest flaw?  No Robert Duvall/Tim Hagen.   I still don't get why they wouldn't just pay him fairly.   It's not like he was a minor character, or that the movie was in danger of not making any money.
 
2020-11-25 1:25:41 PM  

quintas: Biggest flaw?  No Robert Duvall/Tim Hagen.   I still don't get why they wouldn't just pay him fairly.   It's not like he was a minor character, or that the movie was in danger of not making any money.


Tom.
 
2020-11-25 1:28:20 PM  

Uzzah: A "coda" that is almost as long as the song it wraps up isn't a coda at all.


Counterpoint: Hey Jude
 
2020-11-25 1:29:12 PM  

HugeMistake: What the hell does "reedit" mean? Is that supposed to be "re-edit"? If so, the word is "recut".


I clicked on TFA just to find out if a bunch of Redditors were making a fan cut.
 
2020-11-25 1:29:59 PM  
external-preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 1:36:47 PM  

quintas: Biggest flaw?  No Robert Duvall/Tim Hagen.   I still don't get why they wouldn't just pay him fairly.   It's not like he was a minor character, or that the movie was in danger of not making any money.


I think I heard that the romance subplot was originally going to be between his son and Corleone's daughter, then he refused to get involved and the gross, unnecessary incest subplot was created instead. Dunno if that was done to create more drama or because of something about Michael not trusting anyone he didn't already know.
 
2020-11-25 1:49:58 PM  
Their "re-edit" was... changing the title?  WTF?
 
2020-11-25 1:53:03 PM  
I have a fan edit of Part III that I did a few years back wherein I took my copy of it, deleted it from my media server, and enjoyed living in a better world where it no longer existed.  With this in mind, I'll presume that Coppola took all of the existing film elements, carefully set them ablaze in the vineyard, sipped a nice glass of wine, and smiled gently in the twilight.
 
2020-11-25 2:17:05 PM  
I like a lot of III.  I like the helicopter scene.  I like Joey Zaza. I like Andy Garcia. I like Bridget Fonda. I liked the rise of Connie as Lady Macbeth. I liked the inclusion of the vatican bank as a co-mobster.
 
2020-11-25 2:37:23 PM  
I always liked, emphasis on "liked", Part III. Not a great movie like the first two but I did enjoy it. I always thought it was unfair shat upon.
 
2020-11-25 2:38:08 PM  

gunga galunga: I always liked, emphasis on "liked", Part III. Not a great movie like the first two but I did enjoy it. I always thought it was unfair shat upon.


unfairly

I do know the difference between an adjective and an adverb.
 
2020-11-25 2:43:19 PM  
Nothing will save this dumpster fire of a movie.

More disappointing sequel(prequel): Godfather III or Phantom Menace?
 
2020-11-25 3:00:23 PM  

Uzzah: Calling GF3, at 2.5 hours, a "coda" is the height of revisionism


Its not revisionism, though. It's been well known since release that Coppola wanted to call the film The Death of Michael Corleone, not The Godfather Part III, and that it was called GF3 only at the insistence of the studio. This isn't something they just came up with; it's old knowledge that has been talked about for years. He always intended it to be a lengthy epilogue rather than a proper third installment.

A coda is usually short, yes, but they don't have to be.
 
2020-11-25 3:04:46 PM  

gunga galunga: I always liked, emphasis on "liked", Part III. Not a great movie like the first two but I did enjoy it. I always thought it was unfair shat upon.


Yeah, the idea that it was some unmitigated disaster is hyperbolic nonsense. No, it doesn't rise to the masterpiece status of the first two films -- how many films do? -- and yes, it's got some pretty glaring flaws (the helicopter scene, Sophia, Garcia's sudden change in character), but as an epilogue to Michael Corleone's life it's a worthwhile closing of that book. A classic by no means, but had it been released under its originally intended title I think it would have been better received. Being directly compared to two of the best movies of all time would make almost anything look bad by comparison.
 
2020-11-25 3:07:46 PM  
IMHO?
Casting Sophia Coppola

This shows he's willing to break a few rules by casting a talentless (at the time?) no name just because she had a gene match.  And then he probably bent the rules on how to direct , scenery, post production etc until it was an unholy snowball of crap.
 
2020-11-25 3:24:45 PM  
The idea that Micheal Corleone couldn't squash that punk Andy Garcia instantly is a risible part of the picture.
 
2020-11-25 3:25:15 PM  

Coloman: IMHO?
Casting Sophia Coppola

This shows he's willing to break a few rules by casting a talentless (at the time?) no name just because she had a gene match.  And then he probably bent the rules on how to direct , scenery, post production etc until it was an unholy snowball of crap.


She was in the first one
 
2020-11-25 3:28:08 PM  
The way Michael's death occurs is how I imagine Jar Jar Binks dying
 
2020-11-25 3:59:44 PM  

Coloman: IMHO?
Casting Sophia Coppola

This shows he's willing to break a few rules by casting a talentless (at the time?) no name just because she had a gene match.  And then he probably bent the rules on how to direct , scenery, post production etc until it was an unholy snowball of crap.


Wynona Ryder shows up to the set fresh from Mermaids and is sent home pretty much immediately due to exhaustion.  The shoot was _already_ delayed to accommodate Ryder in the first place, so the production doesn't have a lot of time and is already over budget.  Julia Roberts had been under consideration for the role but was busy elsewhere.  Madonna was ready and willing, but then they would have to re-write the role for someone older, because she's not going to pass as Diane Keaton's daughter.  So he kind of did the best he could with what he had.  How was he supposed to know she didn't have the chops?
 
2020-11-25 4:04:12 PM  
All the movies that didn't need to be rebooted - and this one can and should.
 
2020-11-25 4:09:51 PM  
OK
Let me lay this out here while we are talking Godfather in general (let me say I love the first movie, like the second, and can't be bothered with III).

WHAT DID FREDO DO TO DESERVE BEING KILLED IN Godfather II?

1) He didn't let the assassins onto the compound

2) He said all Roth and Johnny Ola wanted was a good deal and he didn't know it was a hit.

3) Even if he's lying (which I don't think the character is smart [you know, smart] enough for that) he didn't let them on the property, didn't need to, it's on a farking lake.

4) So Fredo went down to Cuba and hung out at the Donkey show with Johnny Ola (old man Roth never went there, but Johnny Ola knew all the hot places)

5) What info could Fredo even give them? He wasn't involved in the family business other than running errands.


All in all, the movie both makes out his betrayal to be death worthy, but never shows us what he's done.

The only thing the viewer knows is that in addition to being dim and coveting his brother's place, Fredo has met with other families, partied with their agents, and promised to help them get a "good deal" with Michael.

Hardly death worthy.  Especially since it was done with months if not a year's time to think about it while waiting for the mother to pass.

Just doesn't add up.
 
2020-11-25 5:51:44 PM  
The original script is fantastic. What they filmed was... a mess. No Robert Duval and bad acting by Coppola's daughter didn't f*cking help.
 
2020-11-25 6:32:03 PM  

fngoofy: OK
Let me lay this out here while we are talking Godfather in general (let me say I love the first movie, like the second, and can't be bothered with III).

WHAT DID FREDO DO TO DESERVE BEING KILLED IN Godfather II?

1) He didn't let the assassins onto the compound

2) He said all Roth and Johnny Ola wanted was a good deal and he didn't know it was a hit.

3) Even if he's lying (which I don't think the character is smart [you know, smart] enough for that) he didn't let them on the property, didn't need to, it's on a farking lake.

4) So Fredo went down to Cuba and hung out at the Donkey show with Johnny Ola (old man Roth never went there, but Johnny Ola knew all the hot places)

5) What info could Fredo even give them? He wasn't involved in the family business other than running errands.


All in all, the movie both makes out his betrayal to be death worthy, but never shows us what he's done.

The only thing the viewer knows is that in addition to being dim and coveting his brother's place, Fredo has met with other families, partied with their agents, and promised to help them get a "good deal" with Michael.

Hardly death worthy.  Especially since it was done with months if not a year's time to think about it while waiting for the mother to pass.

Just doesn't add up.


There's a lot to unpack here but I'm going to keep it simple:

Fredo. you're my brother, I love you but don't ever take sides against the family again.

When Michael tells him he knows it was him in Havana, Fredo runs when Michael is offering to help.

When Michael and Fredo are going back and forth when their mother is alive, Fredo states he felt he was passed over, tells Michael that's not the way he wanted things with Michael in charge.

Michael couldn't trust him.
 
2020-11-25 7:02:43 PM  

Gubbo: I will forever hate it for the Helicopter Gunship assassination scene.

I will also hate any movie that copies the concept


When they were first talking about this re-edit, my comment was "yeah, they probably CGI-ed in a second helicopter shooting into the building from the other side."
 
2020-11-25 7:20:11 PM  

FrancoFile: Even in Prog Rock, the coda is smaller than the main theme.


A wise man once said that Prog Rock is music where 23:17 is either the length of the track or the time signature. Sometimes both.
 
2020-11-25 7:21:02 PM  

fngoofy: OK
Let me lay this out here while we are talking Godfather in general (let me say I love the first movie, like the second, and can't be bothered with III).

WHAT DID FREDO DO TO DESERVE BEING KILLED IN Godfather II?

1) He didn't let the assassins onto the compound

2) He said all Roth and Johnny Ola wanted was a good deal and he didn't know it was a hit.

3) Even if he's lying (which I don't think the character is smart [you know, smart] enough for that) he didn't let them on the property, didn't need to, it's on a farking lake.

4) So Fredo went down to Cuba and hung out at the Donkey show with Johnny Ola (old man Roth never went there, but Johnny Ola knew all the hot places)

5) What info could Fredo even give them? He wasn't involved in the family business other than running errands.


All in all, the movie both makes out his betrayal to be death worthy, but never shows us what he's done.

The only thing the viewer knows is that in addition to being dim and coveting his brother's place, Fredo has met with other families, partied with their agents, and promised to help them get a "good deal" with Michael.

Hardly death worthy.  Especially since it was done with months if not a year's time to think about it while waiting for the mother to pass.

Just doesn't add up.


He is warned in the first movie:  "You're my brother, and I love you.  But don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again."

Also, this is part of the point of Godfather II, that Michael has become so ruthless and unfeeling that he would execute even his own brother when he could have forgiven him instead.  Basically, everything you're saying here is right, but by this point, Michael's cruelty had taken over and by the end of the movie, he lost his family as he had always feared.  His mother was wrong:  you can lose your family.
 
2020-11-25 8:29:48 PM  

fngoofy: OK
Let me lay this out here while we are talking Godfather in general (let me say I love the first movie, like the second, and can't be bothered with III).

WHAT DID FREDO DO TO DESERVE BEING KILLED IN Godfather II?

1) He didn't let the assassins onto the compound

2) He said all Roth and Johnny Ola wanted was a good deal and he didn't know it was a hit.

3) Even if he's lying (which I don't think the character is smart [you know, smart] enough for that) he didn't let them on the property, didn't need to, it's on a farking lake.

4) So Fredo went down to Cuba and hung out at the Donkey show with Johnny Ola (old man Roth never went there, but Johnny Ola knew all the hot places)

5) What info could Fredo even give them? He wasn't involved in the family business other than running errands.


All in all, the movie both makes out his betrayal to be death worthy, but never shows us what he's done.

The only thing the viewer knows is that in addition to being dim and coveting his brother's place, Fredo has met with other families, partied with their agents, and promised to help them get a "good deal" with Michael.

Hardly death worthy.  Especially since it was done with months if not a year's time to think about it while waiting for the mother to pass.

Just doesn't add up.


... dude, the point is that he DIDN'T do anything that a normal person would consider deserving of death. He got knocked off because he was uppity and mildly embarrassing, basically. The betrayal thing was a thin pretext that the family never really pretended to believe, that was the point.

... you get that the entire arc of part one and two is about how Michael is an incredibly bad person even by gangster standards, and his character arc is about the mask slipping off until the only person he's fooling is himself, right? Casually offing his literal brother for no reason beyond general disdain is a signpost on that path. It's not supposed to be a righteous act, it's a direct reference to Cain and Abel.
 
2020-11-25 8:48:26 PM  
I remain unmoved. In The Godfather II I would argue that when a certain character is killed almost at the end, that's the ending. That's because when that act occurs Michael's tragic fall is complete. That's as dark an act as he can do. The coda is him sitting alone by that path and ruminating on what the fark happened, how did he get to this point? The path in the background is symbolic of his path in life, it was going straight then took a hard left turn.

The third movie offers nothing new. More death of those close to him oh gee what a surprise! Even as a coda it's a retread.
 
2020-11-25 10:02:28 PM  

Hillbilly Jim: fngoofy: OK
Let me lay this out here while we are talking Godfather in general (let me say I love the first movie, like the second, and can't be bothered with III).

WHAT DID FREDO DO TO DESERVE BEING KILLED IN Godfather II?

1) He didn't let the assassins onto the compound

2) He said all Roth and Johnny Ola wanted was a good deal and he didn't know it was a hit.

3) Even if he's lying (which I don't think the character is smart [you know, smart] enough for that) he didn't let them on the property, didn't need to, it's on a farking lake.

4) So Fredo went down to Cuba and hung out at the Donkey show with Johnny Ola (old man Roth never went there, but Johnny Ola knew all the hot places)

5) What info could Fredo even give them? He wasn't involved in the family business other than running errands.


All in all, the movie both makes out his betrayal to be death worthy, but never shows us what he's done.

The only thing the viewer knows is that in addition to being dim and coveting his brother's place, Fredo has met with other families, partied with their agents, and promised to help them get a "good deal" with Michael.

Hardly death worthy.  Especially since it was done with months if not a year's time to think about it while waiting for the mother to pass.

Just doesn't add up.

There's a lot to unpack here but I'm going to keep it simple:

Fredo. you're my brother, I love you but don't ever take sides against the family again.

When Michael tells him he knows it was him in Havana, Fredo runs when Michael is offering to help.

When Michael and Fredo are going back and forth when their mother is alive, Fredo states he felt he was passed over, tells Michael that's not the way he wanted things with Michael in charge.

Michael couldn't trust him.


AND he was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time
 
2020-11-25 11:24:14 PM  

Fano: Hillbilly Jim:AND he was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time


I've always loved that line. It works on so many levels. It's funny that Moe Greene says it because he's a badass gangster and he's complaining about Fredo having threesomes. He was mad about it because it was impacting casino operations, which is hilarious in itself because it means he was doing it at work, not on his own time. Fredo, who has been totally useless and almost childlike until that moment, turns out to have found his calling and it's as the kind of boss who bangs cocktail waitresses two at a time. And it's said to Michael who is utterly serious this whole time. It was one of the weirdest things in the movie and this is a movie that has a guy in bed with a horse's head.
 
2020-11-25 11:53:17 PM  

Jim_Callahan: fngoofy: OK
Let me lay this out here while we are talking Godfather in general (let me say I love the first movie, like the second, and can't be bothered with III).

WHAT DID FREDO DO TO DESERVE BEING KILLED IN Godfather II?

1) He didn't let the assassins onto the compound

2) He said all Roth and Johnny Ola wanted was a good deal and he didn't know it was a hit.

3) Even if he's lying (which I don't think the character is smart [you know, smart] enough for that) he didn't let them on the property, didn't need to, it's on a farking lake.

4) So Fredo went down to Cuba and hung out at the Donkey show with Johnny Ola (old man Roth never went there, but Johnny Ola knew all the hot places)

5) What info could Fredo even give them? He wasn't involved in the family business other than running errands.


All in all, the movie both makes out his betrayal to be death worthy, but never shows us what he's done.

The only thing the viewer knows is that in addition to being dim and coveting his brother's place, Fredo has met with other families, partied with their agents, and promised to help them get a "good deal" with Michael.

Hardly death worthy.  Especially since it was done with months if not a year's time to think about it while waiting for the mother to pass.

Just doesn't add up.

... dude, the point is that he DIDN'T do anything that a normal person would consider deserving of death. He got knocked off because he was uppity and mildly embarrassing, basically. The betrayal thing was a thin pretext that the family never really pretended to believe, that was the point.

... you get that the entire arc of part one and two is about how Michael is an incredibly bad person even by gangster standards, and his character arc is about the mask slipping off until the only person he's fooling is himself, right? Casually offing his literal brother for no reason beyond general disdain is a signpost on that path. It's not supposed to be a righteous act, it's a direct reference to Cain and Abel.


I hear you, but it's such a thin excuse that it's jarring.
It also doesn't make sense that Roth is even talking to Fredo.
Meh, I'll stick to the first one.
 
2020-11-26 2:35:50 AM  
I disagree with the people saying Fredo didn't do anything deserving of death. He tells Michael at one point something like "there was something in it for me". In other words, there was an exchange of something and Fredo was a party to it. They weren't giving him something for nothing. He wasn't just hanging out with the wrong people. In these movies we see time and again that people's weaknesses are figured out and those weaknesses are used to gain an advantage. Fredo had proven himself vulnerable to manipulation by those outside the family. He could never be trusted and thus would always be dangerous to Michael. That's why he had to go.
 
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