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(Arkansas Online)   Supreme Court overturns election result   (arkansasonline.com) divider line
    More: Sad, President of the United States, Bill Clinton, Democratic Party, Supreme Court of the United States, George W. Bush, Democrat Jimmie Wilson, unanimous decision, United States  
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7686 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Nov 2020 at 9:35 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-25 8:37:55 AM  
That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.
 
2020-11-25 8:41:16 AM  
"Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."
 
2020-11-25 8:52:00 AM  

Altimus Prime: That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.


With the state of the US justice system, "don't have a prior criminal conviction" is a bar that's used far too often.  In reality, the only thing that really means is "you can't do this because you got caught and didn't have enough high priced lawyers to sweep it under the rug".  That's, of course, assuming you actually did what you got convicted for.
 
2020-11-25 8:52:32 AM  

Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."


Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 8:54:09 AM  

Altimus Prime: That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.


This would be fine, but I suspect precedent won't mean much.

They were warned not to nominate him, so they did it to themselves.
 
2020-11-25 8:56:35 AM  
A pardon is not the same as having your sentence vacated.

And the only good thing about Arkansas is that it's not Missouri.
 
2020-11-25 9:27:55 AM  
For some reason I thought that there was some vague federal statute that if a candidate becomes unable to serve after the election has already ended, it definitely does NOT go to the runner up candidate.

(Otherwise the loser would just always put hits out on the person they lost to...)

Is this an Arkansas seat or federal?
 
2020-11-25 9:31:38 AM  

brax33: For some reason I thought that there was some vague federal statute that if a candidate becomes unable to serve after the election has already ended, it definitely does NOT go to the runner up candidate.

(Otherwise the loser would just always put hits out on the person they lost to...)

Is this an Arkansas seat or federal?


Arkansas:
The Arkansas Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled that Democrat Jimmie Wilson is ineligible to serve in the state Legislature ...
 
2020-11-25 9:35:59 AM  
https://www.senate.gov/senators/Appoin​tedSenators.htm#:~:text=If%20a%20vacan​cy%20occurs%20due,special%20election%2​0can%20take%20place.

That's what I was thinking of.

Carry on.

/+1 smartie to unobtanium for a prompt response
 
2020-11-25 9:37:54 AM  
A misdemeanor prevents you from holding public office in Arkansas?  Wow
 
2020-11-25 9:38:44 AM  
Arkanistan
 
2020-11-25 9:39:03 AM  

OldRod: A misdemeanor prevents you from holding public office in Arkansas?  Wow


Came to post this exactly.
 
2020-11-25 9:39:43 AM  
If you can't win, cheat. Everybody knew of his previous conviction and pardon.

All I heard from conservatives re: DJT was "we voted for him, f*** your allegations, impeachment - you don't like him, vote him out.

Conservatives are full of s*** and lack integrity.
 
2020-11-25 9:40:11 AM  
wow he had decades old misdemeanors so is disqualified

whereas all the CURRENT ONGOING CRIME by Repiglicons is apparently no big deal
 
2020-11-25 9:40:31 AM  

Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]


Arkansastan and Floriduh I kind of expected (I have relatives in the latter, and although they are Democrats, the amount of derp I see between the Jacksonville airport and their house made me skeptical the state would go blue).

We keep hearing how the Mormons were disgusted with Trump though. Looks like Mormonism and Trumpism have far more in common than the LDS public relations team would have us believe. Then again, based on the historical treatment of women and blacks by the LDS Church, I probably should not have been that surprised.
 
2020-11-25 9:40:49 AM  

Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image image 850x530]


I'm happy I'm in Colorado
 
2020-11-25 9:41:19 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 9:41:44 AM  
Arkansas SC decides Den who won his election realky lost because...

*checks notes*

...misdemeanor?

Seriously?

*checks notes again*

Oh, FFS.

Nice of them to stay proceedings until after the election.

SMDH.
 
2020-11-25 9:42:15 AM  

Mr.Uncle.Bill: OldRod: A misdemeanor prevents you from holding public office in Arkansas?  Wow

Came to post this exactly.


Guessing this only applies to running as a Democrat.
 
2020-11-25 9:42:54 AM  

Altimus Prime: That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.


It's also an awfully low standard for the government to inflict on people
 
2020-11-25 9:44:30 AM  

Mr.Uncle.Bill: OldRod: A misdemeanor prevents you from holding public office in Arkansas?  Wow

Came to post this exactly.


A misdemeanor from DECADES ago, for which he received a PRESIDENTIAL PARDON 20 years ago.

Say what you will about Arkansas, but those sh*tbillies take agricultural crime pretty seriously when democrats are involved.
 
2020-11-25 9:45:23 AM  
If I understood this correctly...  This dude was convicted of a misdemeanor.  For some reason that disqualifies him from office.  So he was good about it.  He followed the rules.  He was pardoned by Clinton.  Then he checked ahead of time, to make sure it was cool to run.

Now - after the election is over, and he won - some court steps in and says, "but you weren't allowed to run."

How in the world does that make any sense?!

Moreover, there should be an immediate motion to rerun the election with a new candidate.  You can't run an election, then disqualify the winner AFTER the rules stated he was not to be disqualified.

The laws in this country make no sense to me sometimes.  And it's even more maddening when those laws are used to perpetuate partisan bullshiat.  The judge should be removed.

//End rant
 
2020-11-25 9:45:30 AM  

Altimus Prime: That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.


Hear, hear!
Being a liberal doesn't mean ignoring just laws when they don't suit you.
 
2020-11-25 9:46:14 AM  
Accepting a presidential pardon is tantamount to an admission of guilt.
 
2020-11-25 9:48:02 AM  
A pardon is a clean slate, like it never happened.  Nobody questioned Joe Arpaio running again.  If he was expeditiously pardoned for wrongful conviction rather than an expensive and lengthy appeal process, would he still be ineligible? This is bullshiat and they know it.
 
2020-11-25 9:48:52 AM  
I find it hard to believe that some other Arkansas legislator at some point in the past didn't commit a more heinous crime and served without question in the legislature
 
2020-11-25 9:49:10 AM  
On the one hand, Misdemeanors barring one from public office? How does the Republican party even find a candidate? This seems kind of big impediment to seeking office, at any rate. Felonies, sure, but misdemeanors?

On the other hand, this asshole ran for office, wasted resources of his party, all to have it erased because he doesn't understand the nature of a pardon? Accepting a pardon means admitting to the crime. It does not "erase" the conviction from your record, it just removes the punishment. He should have known better, and screwed over his constituency by running.
 
2020-11-25 9:50:10 AM  

Rav Tokomi: Arkanistan


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 9:52:03 AM  

OldRod: A misdemeanor prevents you from holding public office in Arkansas?  Wow


Kinda incentivizes cops to hand out misdemeanors to you-know-who.
 
2020-11-25 9:52:52 AM  
RasIanI: Conservatives are full of s*** and lack integrity.

It's more a range. From lack to subvert. From a sack to a sledge.
 
2020-11-25 9:53:15 AM  
A misdemeanor conviction you say?  Why if it is that simple, than I hope none of the Republican legislators in Arkansas have any DUI or domestic violence convictions from twenty years ago, because it would be a real shame if those started to disqualify all of them.  

Since a presidential pardon does not clean your slate, that would mean having your record expunged would not work either right?
 
2020-11-25 9:53:46 AM  

CheatCommando: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

Arkansastan and Floriduh I kind of expected (I have relatives in the latter, and although they are Democrats, the amount of derp I see between the Jacksonville airport and their house made me skeptical the state would go blue).

We keep hearing how the Mormons were disgusted with Trump though. Looks like Mormonism and Trumpism have far more in common than the LDS public relations team would have us believe. Then again, based on the historical treatment of women and blacks by the LDS Church, I probably should not have been that surprised.


In fairness, Evan McMullin (HQ: Utah) ran in 2016 and pulled 21% of the vote in that state. He didn't run this year. That's why Trump's margin went up.
 
2020-11-25 9:54:58 AM  

Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]


I can explain Utah.  There was a third party, never-Trumper, conservative Mormon candidate running in 2016 who did well in Utah (and almost exclusively Utah).  He did not run in 2020, so at least some of his vote went to Trump in a hold-my-nose sort of way.

That being said, turnout was up overall, so many states had more actual votes for Trump, even if the percentage of votes was lower.
 
2020-11-25 9:55:45 AM  

durbnpoisn: If I understood this correctly...  This dude was convicted of a misdemeanor.  For some reason that disqualifies him from office.  So he was good about it.  He followed the rules.  He was pardoned by Clinton.  Then he checked ahead of time, to make sure it was cool to run.

Now - after the election is over, and he won - some court steps in and says, "but you weren't allowed to run."

How in the world does that make any sense?!

Moreover, there should be an immediate motion to rerun the election with a new candidate.  You can't run an election, then disqualify the winner AFTER the rules stated he was not to be disqualified.

The laws in this country make no sense to me sometimes.  And it's even more maddening when those laws are used to perpetuate partisan bullshiat.  The judge should be removed.

//End rant


One of the weird things about the US court system is that something has to go wrong before they step in - someone murders someone, the courts wrongfully convict someone, someone ineligible to serve starts to...

Only VERY rarely - and after providing enough evidence to convict an attractive white woman of murder - do courts step in to adjudicate a question of law. The question must be "ripe" enough, and the litigant(s) must be the appropriate one(s) to ask it, and the court must be the correct court. And even then, they can decline to enjoin or restrain or issue a writ or even agree to a dismissal motion 10% in when key elements haven't been shown.

Until shiat, as they say, goes to fark, and a Democrat wins in Alabama.

// not a lawyer, so feel free to correct what I've missed
 
2020-11-25 9:56:09 AM  
My only positive memory of Arkansas was shooting my first gun at a downtown pawn shop in . I couldn't afford it (pissant .22) but did have enough for some throwing stars and a pair of nunchucks. The owner let me pop off a couple dozen rounds in the alley behind the shop.

I was eight.

/received comeuppance of appropriate measure to be considered a non-recidivism risk.
//did not get molested, it was Hot Springs where shiat like that was normal, kids bought guns.
///Nothing to say, I was a delinquent
 
2020-11-25 9:56:54 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Until shiat, as they say, goes to fark, and a Democrat wins in Alabama Arkansas.


// this'd be less funny if I wasn't the subby
 
2020-11-25 9:58:01 AM  
While we all agree that crimes should probably be disqualifying for public office...let's remember that, as others have said, that creates perverse incentives.

Also, let's think of it this way:

Martin Luther King, Jr. would not be allowed to hold office by this standard (were he still alive).

Donald Trump WOULD still be allowed to hold office.

Given our justice system's performance, I don't think it's a great rule.
 
2020-11-25 9:59:49 AM  

durbnpoisn: Then he checked ahead of time, to make sure it was cool to run.


It really comes down to this.  If that's the case, and the person who said it was "cool to run" is high enough on the food chain?  IMO he would likely still be SOL on getting the position, but he could have a pretty strong civil suit against that person at least.

/IamAL, but I practice a very particular field and haven't had to think about this type of stuff in many, many years
 
2020-11-25 10:00:18 AM  

Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]


WTF was up with New York?
 
2020-11-25 10:01:34 AM  

Eegah: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

WTF was up with New York?


From other threads...they're still only 85% counted and most of those are mail-ins...so the shift might not actually be a shift.
 
2020-11-25 10:02:05 AM  

Eegah: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

WTF was up with New York?


NY I am disappoint.
 
2020-11-25 10:06:41 AM  
Just a thought here but do you suppose the Democrats could have come up with someone less convicted and pardoned, especially when it was specifically called out as potentially being disqualifying and knowing in this climate Republicans aren't just going to let this slide unless its one of their own?
 
2020-11-25 10:06:46 AM  

winedrinkingman: A misdemeanor conviction you say?


Not any misdemeanor, it's cases of fraud or "infamous crimes." They updated their constitution in 2016 to further define it. They did it to invalidate another dem over writing a bad check.
 
2020-11-25 10:07:18 AM  

Geotpf: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

I can explain Utah.  There was a third party, never-Trumper, conservative Mormon candidate running in 2016 who did well in Utah (and almost exclusively Utah).  He did not run in 2020, so at least some of his vote went to Trump in a hold-my-nose sort of way.

That being said, turnout was up overall, so many states had more actual votes for Trump, even if the percentage of votes was lower.


Yeah, there were a shiatload more votes for everyone.

There were more Utah votes for Biden this year than there were for Trump in 2016.

Percentages:
This year: 57-37 Trump
2016: 45-27 Trump, 21 McMullin
 
2020-11-25 10:09:26 AM  

Senseless_drivel: Just a thought here but do you suppose the Democrats could have come up with someone less convicted and pardoned, especially when it was specifically called out as potentially being disqualifying and knowing in this climate Republicans aren't just going to let this slide unless its one of their own?


This also should've been done. Get it together, Democrats.

Just remember that the GOP's number one goal is to remove you from office by any means necessary and that they don't care about ANYTHING except power. Don't just give them the means to do it legally.
 
2020-11-25 10:09:30 AM  

Eegah: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

WTF was up with New York?


They haven't finished counting all the votes yet.

And, you know, the popular Senator from New York wasn't the candidate.
 
2020-11-25 10:09:39 AM  

Altimus Prime: That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.


No, this is a terrible idea.

A conviction should not be a bar to elected public service. Not only do you prevent a lot of reformed people who have the will to make things better, but it's a very easy tool for the state to kill  a challenger's possibilities.
 
2020-11-25 10:11:07 AM  

Eegah: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

WTF was up with New York?


1) 2016 had a (former) NY Senator running
2) Lotta love for Trump in isles Staten and Long, where NY conservatives flee from the hippies and drugs and crime and ...you know... and loud music and high taxes and "ethnic" foods and such; Trump expresses the New York id like no other being on Earth. It's farking incredible to watch, something like looking into Cthulu's sphincter.

// off the board: because Wall St loves Trump
// because none of those farkers has a NY home address; they all "reside" in a tax friendly state (or their "residence" is, like, a PO box in Delaware or something)
// side note, I'm about to move deeper into Trump country in northwest Jersey - one house we looked at had a no-shiat farking SHRINE to the man in one corner
// we did not buy that house (but not because we'd have needed to color the walls with burnt sage-infused paints)
 
2020-11-25 10:11:37 AM  

intensive porpoise: Altimus Prime: That outcome is unfortunate, but given the number of pardons it would seem the White House is about to start handing out all over the place, it could become helpful precedent down the road.  My test for such things is "how would I feel if the parties were reversed?"  On this one, a standard of "don't have a prior criminal conviction" seems like an awfully low bar for candidates to have to meet.

No, this is a terrible idea.

A conviction should not be a bar to elected public service. Not only do you prevent a lot of reformed people who have the will to make things better, but it's a very easy tool for the state to kill  a challenger's possibilities.


And when it has been demonstrated that the legal system unfairly targets and convicts minorities and the poor....

don't call it broken. It isn't a broken system, people. It's working as designed (remember it was originally designed by white male landowning slaveholders).
 
2020-11-25 10:11:53 AM  

Walker: Eegah: Walker: Badmoodman: "Forget it, Jake. It's Arkansas."

Indeed. Only 3 red states went more for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. They were Arkansas, Utah and Florida.
All lost causes.

[Fark user image 850x530]

WTF was up with New York?

NY I am disappoint.


NY will be counting ballots into December. They also have very lax reporting standards in many counties. Last I looked NY was still almost a million short in their official counts across the state.
 
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