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(Mirror.co.uk)   School tells girls not to wear tight-fitting gym clothes so they don't "distract" teachers. Still no word on how to prevent teachers from being "distracted" by students wearing tight-fitting clothes   (mirror.co.uk) divider line
    More: Asinine, Teacher, Education, male students, secondary school, female students, Female pupils, Gender, Distraction  
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5188 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Nov 2020 at 9:05 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-25 10:46:53 AM  

Doodenkoff: You know how I know you're gay?


You know how I know you missed the post where I said i went to an all-boys school from the age of 13 so had little to no contact with girls outside my small social circles. Once I left that school after 3 years in the wilderness the girls I grew up with (as in, didn't go to school with and ignored while I was fixated on my studies) became much more noticeable to me. Luckily, they noticed me too.
 
2020-11-25 10:47:01 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 10:47:54 AM  

arrogantbastich: Marcus Aurelius: Gym is a perversion, and needs to be banned by Congress.

School sports too.

Last person picked like typing detected.


Gym is great. I went to a rich suburb school though. We had hours allotted. Cross country skiing through the huge wooded school grounds. Massive tennis courts. Huge pool. It was awesome. We also had a girl get raped in the lockers by someone who went in a door they shouldn't have been able to. Someone also started a fire in another locker room. The world is full of bad people, and if we just eliminate everything just to stop the few bad apples then WTF are we even doing going to a school?


While I agree with the overall sentiment, back in the day gym class could be a nightmare.  We had one gym teacher who was basically a high school uber jock man-child.  His idea of gym class was to bully and humiliate the boys who were different, or more specifically whip up the current set of jocks to do it for him while he watched and laughed.  There's always a power imbalance between teachers and students that makes it difficult for victims to speak out but with gym teachers, the imbalance is magnified because of the exaggerated physical differences and the implied the threat of violence that is reinforced by physical abuse passed off as just playing a game.
 
2020-11-25 10:48:13 AM  

steklo: [Fark user image 748x537]


Monica Lewinsky's favourite store.
 
2020-11-25 10:49:04 AM  

grokca: Monica Lewinsky's favourite store.


Well we know she never went to the dry cleaners...so yeah, I can believe this.
 
2020-11-25 10:49:21 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Leader O'Cola: They're turned off by the fact you still have your own jizz crustily dried up on your 4 mustache hairs.

I'd literally beat you to death with my gym fedora if you said this to me in meatspace.

I'm the one with the trucknut earrings.  You see me motoring my Hoverround towards you, you better walk briskly in the opposite direction.


Well, while you went to the gym to train, I trained in the way of the blade.  My fedora collection is better than your fedora collection.
 
2020-11-25 10:51:42 AM  

SpectroBoy: Marcus Aurelius: Gym is a perversion, and needs to be banned by Congress.

Really?!?

Is it the exercise you're against?
Or the teaching of exercise?

What's your objection to phys ed?


Personally, I object to the whole Sports/School Spirit bullshiat. Educational psychologists warn against school populations higher than Dunbar's number, approx 150 students, but that's too small a school to field a decent football team, so we end up with these massive, impersonal schools with most of the real estate devoted to sports fields. If you want to know what's wrong with America, realize that the highest paid public employees in many states are P.E. coaches, and not teachers or doctors.

People who want their kids to play sports should support their local Park District.
 
2020-11-25 10:51:50 AM  
Apparently the school is chock full of impossible-to-restrain rapey teachers and male students. All parents of female students should remove them and place them elsewhere immediately.
 
2020-11-25 10:52:36 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 10:53:46 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Believe me, I've tried, I wear tight-fitting gym clothes every single day and women still do not want to have sex with me, even when I am violently grunting and benching all 95 pounds on multiple occasions.

Maybe I need to wear more than one cologne when I go to the gym.


Nah, you just need to pick one not made by Axe...
 
2020-11-25 10:54:08 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 10:57:16 AM  

steklo: Whatthefark: Oops, wrong thread.

Opps then I apologize as well.

carry on


I was going to reply to your original reply, then I saw this. It's all good.
 
2020-11-25 10:57:28 AM  

IndyJohn: PaceyWhitter: Here is the thing.  I don't doubt that some girls at the school were wearing inappropriate outfits.  High schoolers love to push boundaries.  But there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with that and this school took the decidedly wrong way.

First you make it a rule that no one can wear skin tight clothes and you do not mention gender.  Sure, they didn't see an issue with what the guys were wearing, but there is no reason to make this rule gender specific, no one wants to see a banana hammock either.

Second, don't mention "distracting the teachers".  That makes your teachers look like a bunch of weirdos perking out on teenage girls.  You can say that skin tight clothing is inappropriate without bringing up anything sexual.

Third, you need to have a discussion with whichever male gym teacher brought this clothing up as distracting about why exactly they are looking at the students that way.  After that you need to monitor them closely.

I was with you up until the last paragraph.  You don't need to "have a discussion" with and "monitor" a male teacher who points out that a student was wearing something inappropriate.  Are only female staff allowed to enforce the dress code?


I have several teachers in my extended family and the answer to your question is yes.  Unless you plan on risking your career just to enforce some vague and poorly thought out school policy on dress code, male teachers don't report dress code violations.  Ever.  Nowadays even the female teachers think twice about doing it,
 
2020-11-25 10:58:37 AM  
Schools: Girls, dress like nuns so as to not distract the boys.
Also schools: Gay boys, you'll be full-contact wresting for half an hour before taking an open-room shower with the soccer team.
 
2020-11-25 10:59:54 AM  

Whatthefark: I was going to reply to your original reply, then I saw this. It's all good.


Yup. All good!
 
2020-11-25 10:59:54 AM  

Persnickety: IndyJohn: PaceyWhitter: Here is the thing.  I don't doubt that some girls at the school were wearing inappropriate outfits.  High schoolers love to push boundaries.  But there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with that and this school took the decidedly wrong way.

First you make it a rule that no one can wear skin tight clothes and you do not mention gender.  Sure, they didn't see an issue with what the guys were wearing, but there is no reason to make this rule gender specific, no one wants to see a banana hammock either.

Second, don't mention "distracting the teachers".  That makes your teachers look like a bunch of weirdos perking out on teenage girls.  You can say that skin tight clothing is inappropriate without bringing up anything sexual.

Third, you need to have a discussion with whichever male gym teacher brought this clothing up as distracting about why exactly they are looking at the students that way.  After that you need to monitor them closely.

I was with you up until the last paragraph.  You don't need to "have a discussion" with and "monitor" a male teacher who points out that a student was wearing something inappropriate.  Are only female staff allowed to enforce the dress code?

I have several teachers in my extended family and the answer to your question is yes.  Unless you plan on risking your career just to enforce some vague and poorly thought out school policy on dress code, male teachers don't report dress code violations.  Ever.  Nowadays even the female teachers think twice about doing it,


You're right - being a man in the teaching profession can be like walking through a minefield.  My point was that it shouldn't be.
 
2020-11-25 11:06:45 AM  

Moosedick Gladys Greengroin: Moose knuckles still OK tho?


What is you a sayin?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 11:07:10 AM  

IndyJohn: sorceror: IndyJohn: How are the dress codes more strict for females?  Are they allowing boys to wear daisy dukes and expose their midriffs but not girls?  Are they allowing boys to wear skirts above their knees but not girls?

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-cha​nge/new-from-nea/when-school-dress-cod​es-discriminate

Read the article


Well, I did. Sure, "many" dress codes - note, the article didn't say 'a majority' or anything - don't "specifically target gender". But the article talks about how the codes are also enforced asymmetrically, and several farker's posts on this thread have provided examples.

If you're only going to read a few percent of an article, maybe enough articles will reach a critical threshold or something?

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/20​1​8/09/05/do-school-dress-codes-discrima​te-against-girls.html
https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-righ​t​s/womens-rights-education/5-things-pub​lic-schools-can-and-cant-do-when-it-co​mes
https://scholarship.richmond.edu/cgi/​v​iewcontent.cgi?article=2275&context=la​w-faculty-publications
https://www.wgbh.org/news/2017/05/22/​l​ocal-news/school-dress-codes-are-tough​er-girls-boys
https://nwlc-ciw49tixgw5lbab.stackpath​dns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/5.1​web_Final_nwlc_DressCodeReport.pdf
https://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/​v​iewcontent.cgi?article=3809&context=bc​lr
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dress-​c​ode-problems_n_5420985
https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/arc​h​ive/2013/02/a-dress-code-enforcers-str​uggle-for-the-soul-of-the-middle-schoo​l-girl/273155/

A mix of academic and popular sources, some even arguing the other way - but even they explicitly acknowledge that they are more concerned about girls than boys.
 
2020-11-25 11:09:41 AM  

sorceror: starsrift: Yes, but why are these kids wearing "skin-tight" clothing, too? Take teachers out of the mix; just the student's counterparts could be discomfited. Let's stop pretending that sartorial display isn't part of sexuality, and instead consider that as one goes through puberty, it is an education that should be received, but also appropriately taught to the degree of the societal norm, whatever that may be.

As "one goes through puberty", the "student's counterparts" need to learn to relate to others with respect and consideration - even if they happen to be horny. That's a critical life skill; just ask Jeffrey Toobin. And there's already school dress codes, that are already more strict for females than males. Tackling things from the other end is at least as necessary.


I'm just going to circle around to the word "skin-tight" that was in TFA. Just because it "technically" covers whatever does not mean it is appropriate. And again, that needs to be educated.

Similarly, one doesn't attend a piano concert in a rubber gimp suit.
 
2020-11-25 11:13:45 AM  

BeotchPudding: [Fark user image image 450x600]


I don't think Monkey Snatching the Peach works as well on women?
 
2020-11-25 11:16:03 AM  
Aqualung my friend...
 
2020-11-25 11:21:30 AM  

sorceror: but even they explicitly acknowledge that they are more concerned about girls than boys.


Probably because even though it's 2020 and we're all progressive n'ting, girls are still perceived as things to be judged & rated on appearance. Social media today is partly responsible for this, couple this with peer pressure and it's no surprise some girls get up an hour earlier than we used to just to do hair & make-up.

Schools are places of education, so appearance shouldn't come into it. But it does, and there's a difference between making yourself look nice to feel better about yourself, and hitching your skirt up so it's just above your stocking-tops. In base terms, dress codes are sometimes put in place to protect naive girls from themselves and what they've taught themselves is acceptable clothing, when it's far from. Again, peer pressure & IG are largely to blame.

Conversely, the lads are looking at the same images and teaching themselves to only accept someone who looks a certain way, so when a girl isn't feeling noticed... see above.
 
2020-11-25 11:23:24 AM  

Stantz: girls are still perceived as things to be judged & rated on appearance.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 11:26:11 AM  
My high school girlfriend's big sister "dated" several of the teachers while she was attending said high school.  She graduated to sleeping with her married bosses until she wrecked the home of a wealthy one and married him.  She divorced him and lives in a palatial estate.  My high school girlfriend married an abuser, and I had to send her money to escape.  Life is funny.
We all wore sexless gym uniforms, and they had to call my mom to tell her to have me bring mine home to be laundered.
 
2020-11-25 11:26:22 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

FARK ad on this thread.

I wish I made this up.
 
2020-11-25 11:32:34 AM  
"Sandy Haughney, whose daughter attends the school, wrote on Facebook : "If these so-called male teachers can get distracted by 12 to 18-year-old girls, they should not be teaching."

A 22-year-old male teacher getting distracted by an 18-year-old woman (not girl, she's legally an adult), and that woman could legally pose for Playboy (or could submit an X-rated video to PornHub) while in HS?  GTFO.

Yes, creeping on 12-year-old girls is wrong, but some 12-year-old girls might be able to pass for 18.  Some 12-year-old boys are 6', 195 lbs and have 5-o'clock shadow.

CSB
When I was teaching (age 39), my students were leaving class one day.  I glanced toward one girl (woman, actually, as she was already 18 and had completed Army boot camp as a 17-year-old Reservist).  She was wearing a neon-orange thong with low-rise jeans.  Not obvious when she was standing or sitting, but when leaning over, the waistband of the thong rose well above the waistband of her jeans.  You could NOT miss is, which was probably the point.

Distracted?  Anyone would be, even other girls/women.  It's like a dog noticing a squirrel; they can't help but stare and bark.  We're not going to override millions of years of evolution with some Internet rants.  Creepy?  Only if a distracted adult decides to act on that distraction.
/CSB
 
2020-11-25 11:35:51 AM  

IndyJohn: Reality check

A line needs to be drawn somewhere-Would those biatching about this be okay with someone wearing just a g-string in the classroom?  What if a guy wants to go full Porky Pig and be bottomless?  That must be okay, right?

And the fact that boys are not being pulled out of class is probably because they aren't wearing clothes so tight you can tell their religion.


Are you really so stupid that you don't understand the difference between being naked and being fully clothed?   Really?
 
2020-11-25 11:36:35 AM  

indy_kid: Distracted?


A very good and dear friend of mine is a teacher in a HS located in a very bad part of town.

He told me that if he should ever need to speak to a student after class, he invites another teacher as a witness that nothing shady is going on. He's so afraid of the student making up lies to get him in trouble or fired.
 
2020-11-25 11:38:32 AM  
i went to high school in the 80s at a school of roughly 3000 students. they had a strict "no shorts" policy. Well, except that girls could wear skirts, and the cheerleaders could wear their short cheer skirts throughout the day.

This generally was fine, except that by the time you got to the end of May/ first week of June for finals...because the school didn't have air conditioning. So you had 3000 kids trapped in poorly air circulated hallways on the occasional 80 degree days. The classrooms on the south side of the building during the afternoon would hit high 90 temps.

Anyway, the girls got to wear their short skirts and strap shirts, while the boys were bogged down with their jeans.

A couple of boys were sent home because they started wearing kilts just for comfort levels.

Ultimately, the school conceded to allowing students to wear shorts when members of the football team started wearing cheerleader skirts, claiming that it was allowed "school attire" because the girls were allowed to wear them.
 
2020-11-25 11:39:45 AM  
BeotchPudding

Fark user imageView Full Size



Donkey punch practice???
 
2020-11-25 11:41:33 AM  
Sorry farkers I haven't read all your comments but from TFA.

"If these so-called male teachers can get distracted by 12 to 18-year-old girls, they should not be teaching."

If they are not distracted by attractive 17 or 18 year old WOMEN in tight clothing, they might need a medical check.
 
2020-11-25 11:45:08 AM  

ShamanGator: BeotchPudding

[Fark user image 450x600]


Donkey punch practice???


She's holding onto her spine from the inside to get a stronger grip
 
2020-11-25 11:45:53 AM  
Fark needs a Pedo button in addition to Smart and Funny.
 
2020-11-25 11:51:56 AM  
Stantz ShamanGator: BeotchPudding

[Fark user image 450x600]


Donkey punch practice???

She's holding onto her spine from the inside to get a stronger grip
Kinky, is it wrong to give her my number & request she call me in 10 years?
 
2020-11-25 11:52:39 AM  

ShamanGator: Stantz ShamanGator: BeotchPudding

[Fark user image 450x600]


Donkey punch practice???

She's holding onto her spine from the inside to get a stronger grip


Kinky, is it wrong to give her my number & request she call me in 10 years?
 
2020-11-25 11:52:40 AM  
But those pretty boys can wear whatever they want.
 
2020-11-25 11:54:38 AM  

sorceror: IndyJohn: sorceror: IndyJohn: How are the dress codes more strict for females?  Are they allowing boys to wear daisy dukes and expose their midriffs but not girls?  Are they allowing boys to wear skirts above their knees but not girls?

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-cha​nge/new-from-nea/when-school-dress-cod​es-discriminate

Read the article

Well, I did. Sure, "many" dress codes - note, the article didn't say 'a majority' or anything - don't "specifically target gender". But the article talks about how the codes are also enforced asymmetrically, and several farker's posts on this thread have provided examples.

If you're only going to read a few percent of an article, maybe enough articles will reach a critical threshold or something?

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/201​8/09/05/do-school-dress-codes-discrima​te-against-girls.html
https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-right​s/womens-rights-education/5-things-pub​lic-schools-can-and-cant-do-when-it-co​mes
https://scholarship.richmond.edu/cgi/v​iewcontent.cgi?article=2275&context=la​w-faculty-publications
https://www.wgbh.org/news/2017/05/22/l​ocal-news/school-dress-codes-are-tough​er-girls-boys
https://nwlc-ciw49tixgw5lbab.stackpath​dns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/5.1​web_Final_nwlc_DressCodeReport.pdf
https://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/v​iewcontent.cgi?article=3809&context=bc​lr
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dress-c​ode-problems_n_5420985
https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/arch​ive/2013/02/a-dress-code-enforcers-str​uggle-for-the-soul-of-the-middle-schoo​l-girl/273155/

A mix of academic and popular sources, some even arguing the other way - but even they explicitly acknowledge that they are more concerned about girls than boys.


I also read the article.  That's what I was trying to indicate -- I had read the article, not instructing you to read the article

Although the article talks about dress codes being enforced asymmetrically, it doesn't back it up.

Do girls run afoul of dress codes more often?  Yeah.  I'm not going to argue that.  Do dress code provisions get written specifically in response to things that girls are wearing but not guys?  Absolutely.

But I'm not buying that makes a dress code discriminatory.  It seems that the real problem is that, as a society, we teach girls their value is based on appearance and sexual attractiveness.  That gets enforced lots of ways, including through media and peer interactions, and girls feel pressured to dress certain ways to conform to that norm.

I have a 14 year old daughter and she feels that societal pressure.  Her school (although virtual right now) has a gender neutral uniform (khakis and a polo).  I like to think that she's smart and confident enough in herself that she wouldn't fully buy into that kind of societal pressure, but she's said that she appreciates the uniform because it takes away a lot of that social dynamic.  Call me a prude (I'm not really though), but I think dress codes are generally a good thing.  It's not just about keeping the boys from being "distracted," but also about dialing back the social pressure on girls.
 
2020-11-25 11:55:23 AM  
Mississippi Fred Mcdowell Good Morning Little School Girl
Youtube 0L2aUSSfO38

"Good Morning Little School Girl" One hell of a guitar player, worth a listen.
 
2020-11-25 11:56:58 AM  
How is this surprising?

We're hairless apes that just got out of caves. Our priorities are air, water, food, shelter clothing.

You know what the next one after that is?! High school girls in tight clothing.
 
2020-11-25 11:57:50 AM  

Tyrosine: The same should apply at Carlow. If a male teacher is distracted by a female student's outfit, the male teacher is the problem, not the student or outfit. This is particularly important considering the girls involved are all 18 and under.


Even when a teacher is not being tempted, the attempt to distract can be awkward and embarrassing. At one time many years ago I used to do some private coaching in maths to ~17 year olds. One of my students appeared in looser and looser tops until eventually she had her nipples clearly on display. I wasn't remotely tempted by her, but it was an uncomfortable situation and I had her reassigned to another tutor.

It is quite possible for pupils/students to sexually harass teachers
 
2020-11-25 11:57:59 AM  

arrogantbastich: Marcus Aurelius: Gym is a perversion, and needs to be banned by Congress.

School sports too.

Last person picked like typing detected.


Gym is great. I went to a rich suburb school though. We had hours allotted. Cross country skiing through the huge wooded school grounds. Massive tennis courts. Huge pool. It was awesome. We also had a girl get raped in the lockers by someone who went in a door they shouldn't have been able to. Someone also started a fire in another locker room. The world is full of bad people, and if we just eliminate everything just to stop the few bad apples then WTF are we even doing going to a school?


When I think back on high school, I'm glad I spent one eighth of my time there learning how to lift weights and play net sports, and get fondled by the gymnastics coach. It really helped prepare me to be a productive member of society.
 
2020-11-25 11:58:24 AM  
I don't even see it as a question of perversion. A parent can see and notice inappropriate dress on their child without accusations of being a pervert. If this is anything like a lot of American schools, the teachers especially men, are warned about appearances. Never be alone with a student. Always leave the door open in an office if you are with a student. The student's clothing can add an appearance of inappropriate behavior. Especially within the climate of inter-student relations. If a student is dress inappropriately for the school, I can see the teacher being paranoid of hearing, "He just treats her like that because of how she dresses."
 
2020-11-25 12:01:24 PM  

NM Volunteer: Fark needs a Pedo button in addition to Smart and Funny.


That's what farkies are for. And man, oh man, the "it's ephebophilia and it's not entirely wrong" force is out in spades today.
 
2020-11-25 12:03:33 PM  

ShamanGator: BeotchPudding

[Fark user image 450x600]


Donkey punch practice???


"Dammit, April, my hand is stuck again!"
 
2020-11-25 12:04:06 PM  

dothemath: [Fark user image 300x600]
FARK ad on this thread.

I wish I made this up.


Yeah.. I've got ads for pants and turntables. Might want to clear your browser history there, Chester.
 
2020-11-25 12:06:52 PM  

gunther_bumpass: dothemath: [Fark user image 300x600]
FARK ad on this thread.

I wish I made this up.

Yeah.. I've got ads for pants and turntables. Might want to clear your browser history there, Chester.


Good idea, ill get right on it after im done shaving your moms butt hole. I left a wiffle ball bat in there and I cant see the handle.
 
2020-11-25 12:08:46 PM  

dothemath: gunther_bumpass: dothemath: [Fark user image 300x600]
FARK ad on this thread.

I wish I made this up.

Yeah.. I've got ads for pants and turntables. Might want to clear your browser history there, Chester.

Good idea, ill get right on it after im done shaving your moms butt hole. I left a wiffle ball bat in there and I cant see the handle.



And you wonder why you get ads featuring underaged kids.
 
2020-11-25 12:09:24 PM  

EvilEgg: meanmutton: EvilEgg: Girls, it's your right to dress anyway you like, you just can't control who's attention you attract.

Should the men and boys leer?  Probably not, but they do have the right to. They don't have the right to anything past that.  Not your attention, not your smile, or even not being glared at.

fark that, no. Adult male teachers DO NOT HAVE ANY farkING RIGHT TO LEER AT 12 YEAR OLD GIRLS. That's farking disgusting, offensive and seriously, man, what the fark is wrong with you?

Of course they shouldn't.  But people have the right to do disgusting offensive things.

How do you legislate a leer versus a look?


I think it has to do with the length of time

I seem to recall Australia having a 6 second limit to how long you could oggle someone before it came became harassment

that was way back in the day I don't know if that's still a thing
 
2020-11-25 12:09:50 PM  

sorceror: A mix of academic and popular sources, some even arguing the other way - but even they explicitly acknowledge that they are more concerned about girls than boys.


The really weird thing to me about school uniforms in the UK, and especially England, is their insisitence on dressing girls up in shirts, ties and jackets. There is a clear message there: "To participate in education you need to dress as a boy."

It's all very silly. The standard rules for Scottish secondary schools, when they have uniform, are "black below the waist, black on white above the waist, don't show your underwear" and that seems to work pretty well.
 
2020-11-25 12:10:23 PM  

Kattungali: IndyJohn: Reality check

A line needs to be drawn somewhere-Would those biatching about this be okay with someone wearing just a g-string in the classroom?  What if a guy wants to go full Porky Pig and be bottomless?  That must be okay, right?

And the fact that boys are not being pulled out of class is probably because they aren't wearing clothes so tight you can tell their religion.

Are you really so stupid that you don't understand the difference between being naked and being fully clothed?   Really?


No, but you are clearly so stupid that you missed the point entirely.
 
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