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(Slash Gear)   A study of 55,000 people by the University of Oxford has found that vegans may be more likely to fracture bones. Carnivores, keep being awesome   (slashgear.com) divider line
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224 clicks; posted to STEM » on 24 Nov 2020 at 7:20 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



25 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-11-24 5:17:35 PM  
Their own or other people's?
 
2020-11-24 5:41:26 PM  
There is a 'catch' to the findings, though, in that the bone fractures couldn't be separated between those that resulted from poor bone health and those that resulted from accidents. As well, the study was largely limited to white Europeans and the researchers didn't have access to data on any potential differences in supplemental calcium intake.

Need better data.
 
2020-11-24 5:42:08 PM  
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2020-11-24 5:49:14 PM  
It may be experience with those who don't know how to eat properly in the first place.

As much as I enjoy watching Tom Brady get sacked, I sure hope he's taking care of that fragile 'vegan' body.

/horsechit
//all of it
///There were large vegan Dinosaurs too
 
2020-11-24 5:50:07 PM  

plecos: There is a 'catch' to the findings, though, in that the bone fractures couldn't be separated between those that resulted from poor bone health and those that resulted from accidents. As well, the study was largely limited to white Europeans and the researchers didn't have access to data on any potential differences in supplemental calcium intake.

Need better data.


Exactly.
 
2020-11-24 6:17:49 PM  

plecos: There is a 'catch' to the findings, though, in that the bone fractures couldn't be separated between those that resulted from poor bone health and those that resulted from accidents. As well, the study was largely limited to white Europeans and the researchers didn't have access to data on any potential differences in supplemental calcium intake.

Need better data.


Upon further reading it turns out the sole data source was a guy named Richard who broke his leg skiing and all he'd eaten that day was a salad.
 
2020-11-24 7:49:54 PM  
idk.. maybe have more Dairy?

Not like you need to kill something to get milk
 
2020-11-24 7:55:12 PM  

plecos: There is a 'catch' to the findings, though, in that the bone fractures couldn't be separated between those that resulted from poor bone health and those that resulted from accidents. As well, the study was largely limited to white Europeans and the researchers didn't have access to data on any potential differences in supplemental calcium intake.

Need better data.


By that logic, you could say that eating meat all your life is beneficial because I've never broken a bone.  Never mind that I never played organized sports and I'm fairly lazy. I don't do anything risky enough to break bones.
But carnivore = no broken bones
 
2020-11-24 8:03:03 PM  

plecos: There is a 'catch' to the findings, though, in that the bone fractures couldn't be separated between those that resulted from poor bone health and those that resulted from accidents. As well, the study was largely limited to white Europeans and the researchers didn't have access to data on any potential differences in supplemental calcium intake.

Need better data.


Even if it's just correlative, not casual, that means the types of people who would be vegan might be making other dangerous choices, or somehow otherwise making themselves at higher risk.

However, having seen multiple studies that show that without carefully chosen cuisine and generally supplements, vegans are at very high risk of having all kinds of dietary defencies, calcium is not the only one. So, this really shouldn't be a surprise correlation.
 
2020-11-24 8:37:50 PM  
Imma guess this will be shared by loads of self proclaimed "meat eaters/carnivores" who are unhealthy as shiat. I'm not vegan nor do I think veganism is the optimaldiet for humans. However it is still probably 10times better/more healthy than the avg persons diet who is gonna mock vegans with this article.

Also, as others have pointed out a lot of factors not taken into the study.

Main point, just know what you eat and make sure you getting all your body needs and you'll be fine.
 
2020-11-24 10:00:43 PM  
Welp time to burn down now rain forest for my hamburgers
 
2020-11-24 10:35:36 PM  
For the unenlightened

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2020-11-24 10:38:06 PM  

Hoblit: It may be experience with those who don't know how to eat properly in the first place.

As much as I enjoy watching Tom Brady get sacked, I sure hope he's taking care of that fragile 'vegan' body.

/horsechit
//all of it
///There were large vegan Dinosaurs too


Hey, I know this might seem obvious, but people aren't dinosaurs.
 
2020-11-24 11:19:44 PM  

kkinnison: idk.. maybe have more Dairy?
Not like you need to kill something to get milk


Actually, you do (but I drink milk anyway, though I don't eat meat.)  Cows need to have a calf every year to keep giving milk. Some of those calves grow up to be milk cows or stud bulls, but traditionally the male calves and some female ones turned into veal, though these days they might get turned into steers or dogfood.

Back in my late 40s I broke my toes a couple of times. My doctor suggested I get my bone density checked, and it turns out mine's low. Took calcium pills for a couple years and my bone density got back up to normal.
 
2020-11-24 11:55:20 PM  

kkinnison: idk.. maybe have more Dairy?

Not like you need to kill something to get milk


Freah herbs have far more calcium pound-for-pound than milk and dairy.
 
2020-11-25 1:13:14 AM  
An extra 20 cases per 1000 people over a 10 year period, so even though it's a greater risk it's still quite a small risk.
 
2020-11-25 3:26:06 AM  

plecos: There is a 'catch' to the findings, though, in that the bone fractures couldn't be separated between those that resulted from poor bone health and those that resulted from accidents. As well, the study was largely limited to white Europeans and the researchers didn't have access to data on any potential differences in supplemental calcium intake.

Need better data.


That completely depends on the predictions they want to make. If I participate in a gameshow and they show me two people, say one of them is vegan, and I need to make a guess who has broken a bone I now know I need to pick the vegan.

/Plus sometimes it is useful to just get some basic data
//If over 55000 people differences are found, I am willing to bet it has something to do with veganism
///Whether it is the bone health or being more accident prone due to anemia is up for grabs
 
2020-11-25 4:49:13 AM  

HugeMistake: Their own or other people's?


Silly question.  Vegans are too weak to break someone else's bones.
 
2020-11-25 8:44:57 AM  
If the wind is constantly blowing you over, it's a pretty safe bet you are going to end up with some broken bones
 
2020-11-25 9:40:07 AM  

Surrender your boo-tah: Hoblit: It may be experience with those who don't know how to eat properly in the first place.

As much as I enjoy watching Tom Brady get sacked, I sure hope he's taking care of that fragile 'vegan' body.

/horsechit
//all of it
///There were large vegan Dinosaurs too

Hey, I know this might seem obvious, but people aren't dinosaurs.


...and Tom Brady isn't the only vegan football player either so I'm lost on your point...
 
2020-11-25 9:52:18 AM  
Until we developed technology capable of genetically engineering something capable of making B12, veganism was slow suicide.

You would eventually die if you went vegan due to lack of B12. B12 is only available from animal sources, meat, fish, or dairy.

This is why there are many societies who had large sections who were vegetarian, but not one where there were vegans. They all died.
 
2020-11-25 10:12:26 AM  

dready zim: Until we developed technology capable of genetically engineering something capable of making B12, veganism was slow suicide.

You would eventually die if you went vegan due to lack of B12. B12 is only available from animal sources, meat, fish, or dairy.

This is why there are many societies who had large sections who were vegetarian, but not one where there were vegans. They all died.


B12 gets added to pretty much all the vegan foods you can buy in the store.  A glass of soy milk has more than 100% DV.  Cereals are also fortified to a lesser extent, so just a bowl of cereal is enough B12 for an entire day.  Of course, there are also supplements.  You know all this exists and is commercially produced to be vegan, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin​_​B12#Commercial_production
 
2020-11-25 11:07:00 AM  
And the place where most of these fractures occur:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-25 5:08:59 PM  

cousin-merle: dready zim: Until we developed technology capable of genetically engineering something capable of making B12, veganism was slow suicide.

You would eventually die if you went vegan due to lack of B12. B12 is only available from animal sources, meat, fish, or dairy.

This is why there are many societies who had large sections who were vegetarian, but not one where there were vegans. They all died.

B12 gets added to pretty much all the vegan foods you can buy in the store.  A glass of soy milk has more than 100% DV.  Cereals are also fortified to a lesser extent, so just a bowl of cereal is enough B12 for an entire day.  Of course, there are also supplements.  You know all this exists and is commercially produced to be vegan, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_​B12#Commercial_production


Yes of course I know all that. In modern times it is very easy to get B12 from vegan sources.

That is a very recent thing though, and is only possible as a result of our technological development, something we did not have during the time I referred to in my post.We have only known about vitamins for just over 100 years. Before then, if you did not eat meat, eggs, milk, nor fish eventually you would suffer from:extreme tiredness (fatigue)
lack of energy (lethargy)
breathlessness
feeling faint
headaches
pale skin
noticeable heartbeats (palpitations)
hearing sounds coming from inside the body, rather than from an outside source (tinnitus)
loss of appetite and weight loss
a pale yellow tinge to your skin
a sore and red tongue (glossitis)
mouth ulcers
pins and needles (paraesthesia)
changes in the way that you walk and move around
disturbed vision
irritability
depression
changes in the way you think, feel and behave
a decline in your mental abilities, such as memory, understanding and judgement (dementia)
reduced sense of taste
diarrhoea
numbness and tingling in the feet and hands
muscle weakness
Note how many of the tropes most often mentioned in threads like this one (whether by pro vegans or not)

Hoblit: fragile 'vegan' body


DerAppie: more accident prone due to anemia


OgreMagi: Vegans are too weak to break someone else's bones


OldJames: the wind is constantly blowing you over


are actual symptoms based in truth is for someone not having enough B12. Historically, pre 1920 say, that would be all vegans.
 
2020-11-25 5:32:14 PM  

dready zim: are actual symptoms based in truth is for someone not having enough B12. Historically, pre 1920 say, that would be all vegans.


B12 has been in vegan diets for far longer than that and this really just boils down to your own ignorant speculation.

I'm not picking on you but if you read about this a bit longer, you'd realize that. (hence the word 'ignorant' to definition and not 'stupid')

There are, in fact, plant based foods that B12 naturally occurs in and are abundant in cultures that have high numbers of vegans. It's not always accepted, nor is perfect and I too would recommend fortified foods. Especially for people like me that are on (stomach acid) pump-inhibitors perpetually and need to be sure I get enough of it.

And when you meld all this into the context of this modern study, it's all horsechit, man. :)
 
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